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The Russian/Trump Investigation - Sessions' stonewalling session

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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Yeah, the whole thing was put together by Seth Abramson on his Twitter account. I mean, I still think the whole idea is so cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs that I was rolling my eyes when I first read it, but Trump's entire presidency has been so fucking surreal that I don't know what to believe anymore.

    Edit: Whoops, beat'd by Arc!

    TFW you start to wonder whether your entire reality is actually the product of a roomful of hack television writers.

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    SelnerSelner Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Wait I'm out of the loop mayflower conspiracy?

    it's not anything really weird

    Basically the scuttlebutt is this:

    - Trump and his team held a private gathering/fundraiser paid for by a Russian-linked PAC; this is true and not disputed
    - Trump, Kushner, Sessions, and others are rumored to have met privately with Kislyak and ambassadors from countries who were part of the Rosneft oil deal
    - After the deal went through, Trump stood to make millions from liquidated shares in Rosneft


    nothing about it seems to far-fetched

    The actual kicker of the story is the claim that Russia "sold" Trump 0.5% of the oil/gas company in exchange for lifting sanctions.
    If that's true, and anyone ever finds proof of it... but it could also just be a made up accusation.

    The current story link is that Sessions did not disclose to Congress that he met with Kislyak at the Mayflower.

    Everything about the Mayflower thing just looks suspicious and sketchy.

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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    The only real "conspiracy theory" bit of the Mayflower thing is the idea that a deal was struck. Because that's essentially unprovable without insider information.

    The meetings pretty clearly actually took place, from what I understand at this point.

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Selner wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Wait I'm out of the loop mayflower conspiracy?

    it's not anything really weird

    Basically the scuttlebutt is this:

    - Trump and his team held a private gathering/fundraiser paid for by a Russian-linked PAC; this is true and not disputed
    - Trump, Kushner, Sessions, and others are rumored to have met privately with Kislyak and ambassadors from countries who were part of the Rosneft oil deal
    - After the deal went through, Trump stood to make millions from liquidated shares in Rosneft


    nothing about it seems to far-fetched

    The actual kicker of the story is the claim that Russia "sold" Trump 0.5% of the oil/gas company in exchange for lifting sanctions.
    If that's true, and anyone ever finds proof of it... but it could also just be a made up accusation.

    The current story link is that Sessions did not disclose to Congress that he met with Kislyak at the Mayflower.

    Everything about the Mayflower thing just looks suspicious and sketchy.

    The thing with the Rosneft deal is that no one knows shit about it.

    So I am extra dubious of any claim that actually tries to put a number on it.

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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    This is quite a story!


    Russia escalates spy games after years of U.S. neglect

    In the throes of the 2016 campaign, the FBI found itself with an escalating problem: Russian diplomats, whose travel was supposed to be tracked by the State Department, were going missing.

    The diplomats, widely assumed to be intelligence operatives, would eventually turn up in odd places, often in middle-of-nowhere USA. One was found on a beach, nowhere near where he was supposed to be. In one particularly bizarre case, relayed by a U.S. intelligence official, another turned up wandering around in the middle of the desert. Interestingly, both seemed to be lingering where underground fiber optics cables tend to run.
    It’s a trend that has led intelligence officials to conclude the Kremlin is waging a quiet effort to map the United States’ telecommunications infrastructure, perhaps preparing for an opportunity to disrupt it.
    Wait, I just remembered something. Anyone remember back when allegations first started against Russia, Obama had a bunch of Russian diplomats ejected from the country? People had said it was rather premature since it was all allegations at the time, but now I wonder if this is related.

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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited June 2017
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    The only real "conspiracy theory" bit of the Mayflower thing is the idea that a deal was struck. Because that's essentially unprovable without insider information.

    The meetings pretty clearly actually took place, from what I understand at this point.

    Well, we don't know what meetings actually happened. We just know that the Mayflower Hotel is equipped with private rooms for private conversations, whereas the previous venue (the National Press Club) is not. The stated reasoning for the move was because there was "overwhelming interest" in the speech, but Abramson asserts that this makes no sense because the Mayflower is a smaller venue.

    Contemporaneous news report: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/277308-trump-to-give-foreign-policy-speech-at-national-press-club

    Hakkekage on
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    NNID: Hakkekage
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    This is quite a story!


    Russia escalates spy games after years of U.S. neglect

    In the throes of the 2016 campaign, the FBI found itself with an escalating problem: Russian diplomats, whose travel was supposed to be tracked by the State Department, were going missing.

    The diplomats, widely assumed to be intelligence operatives, would eventually turn up in odd places, often in middle-of-nowhere USA. One was found on a beach, nowhere near where he was supposed to be. In one particularly bizarre case, relayed by a U.S. intelligence official, another turned up wandering around in the middle of the desert. Interestingly, both seemed to be lingering where underground fiber optics cables tend to run.
    It’s a trend that has led intelligence officials to conclude the Kremlin is waging a quiet effort to map the United States’ telecommunications infrastructure, perhaps preparing for an opportunity to disrupt it.
    Wait, I just remembered something. Anyone remember back when allegations first started against Russia, Obama had a bunch of Russian diplomats ejected from the country? People had said it was rather premature since it was all allegations at the time, but now I wonder if this is related.

    You mean those ejected from the very same facility Trump tried just yesterday to give back to the Russians?

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Oh there'd be people queuing up to join a Nigel Farage kidnap squad, I'm sure

    Typical Brits. Can't just mob like the rest of us. Gotta queue.

    Well yeah

    otherwise it's just

    well it's just not right

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    SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Mayflower "conspiracy" in a nutshell:

    The April 2016 meeting was moved just 24 hours prior to the scheduled speech event to the Mayflower hotel because it had private, secured VIP areas for private meetings.

    The people at the Mayflower hotel meeting were:
    Donald Trump
    Jared Kushner
    Jeff Sessions
    Corey Lewandkowski
    Paul Manafort
    Bud McFralane, a pro-Russia advocate and wants to get Russian oil access
    The Ambassador of the Philippines, expansion target for Rosneft business
    The Ambassador of Singapore, holding company in Singapore was the buyer in the Rosneft deal, owners impossible to trace
    The Ambassador of Italy, Italian bank was financing the Rosneft deal
    The Ambassador of Russia, Sergey Kislyak, who is also allegedly a Russian spy

    The meeting was supposedly to discuss the sale of portions of Rosneft which owns a large portion of Russian oil reserves. Putin would make billions off the sale. According the the UK spy dossier that started this, Carter Page was offered the brokerage commission on the sale of 19% of Rosneft if he could get US sanctions on Russia lifted. Trump allegedly was to be given 0.5% of Rosneft and aid in getting elected in exchange for lifting sanctions on Russia. Rosnoft eventually sold 19.5% of its assets to unknown persons. When the Rosneft deal closed in December 2016, at the same time, another meeting took place at Trump Tower with Donald, McFralane, and supposedly Kislyak.

    The Mayflower meeting was just prior to Trump's first foreign policy speech where he said we needed to be closer friends with Russia and the need to "make deals" with them.

    Jeff Sesssions did not disclose the Mayflower meeting during his confirmation hearings for AG, despite the perjury accusations. Kislyak has also denied the Mayflower meeting took place.

    SiliconStew on
    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    This is quite a story!


    Russia escalates spy games after years of U.S. neglect

    In the throes of the 2016 campaign, the FBI found itself with an escalating problem: Russian diplomats, whose travel was supposed to be tracked by the State Department, were going missing.

    The diplomats, widely assumed to be intelligence operatives, would eventually turn up in odd places, often in middle-of-nowhere USA. One was found on a beach, nowhere near where he was supposed to be. In one particularly bizarre case, relayed by a U.S. intelligence official, another turned up wandering around in the middle of the desert. Interestingly, both seemed to be lingering where underground fiber optics cables tend to run.
    It’s a trend that has led intelligence officials to conclude the Kremlin is waging a quiet effort to map the United States’ telecommunications infrastructure, perhaps preparing for an opportunity to disrupt it.
    Wait, I just remembered something. Anyone remember back when allegations first started against Russia, Obama had a bunch of Russian diplomats ejected from the country? People had said it was rather premature since it was all allegations at the time, but now I wonder if this is related.

    You mean those ejected from the very same facility Trump tried just yesterday to give back to the Russians?
    ... COOL looks like I wasn't just throwing out a random thought afterall. Come the fuck on, Trump.

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    CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    JoeUser wrote: »
    This is quite a story!


    Russia escalates spy games after years of U.S. neglect

    In the throes of the 2016 campaign, the FBI found itself with an escalating problem: Russian diplomats, whose travel was supposed to be tracked by the State Department, were going missing.

    The diplomats, widely assumed to be intelligence operatives, would eventually turn up in odd places, often in middle-of-nowhere USA. One was found on a beach, nowhere near where he was supposed to be. In one particularly bizarre case, relayed by a U.S. intelligence official, another turned up wandering around in the middle of the desert. Interestingly, both seemed to be lingering where underground fiber optics cables tend to run.
    It’s a trend that has led intelligence officials to conclude the Kremlin is waging a quiet effort to map the United States’ telecommunications infrastructure, perhaps preparing for an opportunity to disrupt it.
    Wait, I just remembered something. Anyone remember back when allegations first started against Russia, Obama had a bunch of Russian diplomats ejected from the country? People had said it was rather premature since it was all allegations at the time, but now I wonder if this is related.

    You mean those ejected from the very same facility Trump tried just yesterday to give back to the Russians?
    ... COOL looks like I wasn't just throwing out a random thought afterall. Come the fuck on, Trump.

    I swear Trump is following a step-by-step guide for "How To Look Guilty".

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
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    OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Selner wrote: »
    Atomika wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Wait I'm out of the loop mayflower conspiracy?

    it's not anything really weird

    Basically the scuttlebutt is this:

    - Trump and his team held a private gathering/fundraiser paid for by a Russian-linked PAC; this is true and not disputed
    - Trump, Kushner, Sessions, and others are rumored to have met privately with Kislyak and ambassadors from countries who were part of the Rosneft oil deal
    - After the deal went through, Trump stood to make millions from liquidated shares in Rosneft


    nothing about it seems to far-fetched

    The actual kicker of the story is the claim that Russia "sold" Trump 0.5% of the oil/gas company in exchange for lifting sanctions.
    If that's true, and anyone ever finds proof of it... but it could also just be a made up accusation.

    The current story link is that Sessions did not disclose to Congress that he met with Kislyak at the Mayflower.

    Everything about the Mayflower thing just looks suspicious and sketchy.

    The thing with the Rosneft deal is that no one knows shit about it.

    So I am extra dubious of any claim that actually tries to put a number on it.

    This is a good article, and at least makes it clear that a deal of the sort described is possible if currently not provable due to financial paperwork shenanigans. Also possible it's completely unrelated, I'm sure there are many things worth hiding in international oil deals with countries under sanctions.

    My shot in the dark is that some Kushner LLC (fun fact from his financial disclosure: he's technically the president/head of hundreds of LLCs) owns, through god knows how many layers of remove, some portion of Rosneft stock that was acquired within the past year. No backing for that beyond suspicion and ongoing news, but it would fit with what we do know. Of course, lots of things would.

    Whether Trump knows about any of this somehow remains an open question.

    Edit: My wife and I decided to put together a crazy conspiracy board about all this for a laugh, so forgive me if that kind of thinking is getting to be a little too natural. I blame it on reality.

    OneAngryPossum on
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    GSMGSM Registered User regular
    "The Mayflower Conspiracy" just sounds right, you know? Feels like that name has staying power. Bold, serious sounding, like a book chapter heading.

    We'll get back there someday.
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    "The Mayflower Conspiracy" just sounds right, you know? Feels like that name has staying power. Bold, serious sounding, like a book chapter heading.

    Watergate for a new generation, basically.

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    CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    "The Mayflower Conspiracy" just sounds right, you know? Feels like that name has staying power. Bold, serious sounding, like a book chapter heading.

    It's even the name of a hotel. Maybe if that brings Trump down we can start calling all scandals XFlower instead of XGate.

    PSN,Steam,Live | CptHamiltonian
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    TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    "The Mayflower Conspiracy" just sounds right, you know? Feels like that name has staying power. Bold, serious sounding, like a book chapter heading.

    It's even the name of a hotel. Maybe if that brings Trump down we can start calling all scandals XFlower instead of XGate.

    Nah we will call it Mayflowergate.

    steam_sig.png
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    KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    "The Mayflower Conspiracy" just sounds right, you know? Feels like that name has staying power. Bold, serious sounding, like a book chapter heading.

    It's even the name of a hotel. Maybe if that brings Trump down we can start calling all scandals XFlower instead of XGate.

    Xflowergate

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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    TNTrooper wrote: »
    GSM wrote: »
    "The Mayflower Conspiracy" just sounds right, you know? Feels like that name has staying power. Bold, serious sounding, like a book chapter heading.

    It's even the name of a hotel. Maybe if that brings Trump down we can start calling all scandals XFlower instead of XGate.

    Nah we will call it Mayflowergate.

    "Mayflowers brought golden showers?"

    (Actually that could happen if the tape is real)

    Mx. Quill on
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    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Author: Ok, so this conspiracy basically begins the end of America.
    Editor: Does this conspiracy have a name?
    Author: The Mayflower Conspiracy.
    Editor: Oh come on.

    august on
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    AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    august wrote: »
    Author: Ok, so this conspiracy basically begins the end of America.
    Editor: Does this conspiracy have a name?
    Author: The Mqyflower Conspiracy.
    Editor: Oh come on.

    "I mean how do you even pronounce that? Mackyflower?"

    ACsTqqK.jpg
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    DacDac Registered User regular
    august wrote: »
    Author: Ok, so this conspiracy basically begins the end of America.
    Editor: Does this conspiracy have a name?
    Author: The Mqyflower Conspiracy.
    Editor: Oh come on.

    Get outta here, Tom Clancy, that's just not believable!

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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    Author: Ok, so this conspiracy basically begins the end of America.
    Editor: Does this conspiracy have a name?
    Author: The Mqyflower Conspiracy.
    Editor: Oh come on.

    Get outta here, Tom Clancy, that's just not believable!

    If Tom Clancy wrote this story, it'd be 50 pages long, large print

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    Here's an example of fiber being cut and disrupting a large area


    Outages show Internet flaws in harsh light

    FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. – When vandals sliced a fiber-optic cable in the Arizona desert last month, they did more than time-warp thousands of people back to an era before computers, credit cards or even phones. They exposed a glaring vulnerability in the nation’s Internet infrastructure: no backup systems in many places.

    Because Internet service is largely unregulated by the federal government and the states, decisions about network reliability are left to the service providers. Industry analysts say these companies generally do not build alternative routes, or redundancies, unless they believe it is worthwhile financially.

    The result: While most major metropolitan areas in the U.S. have backup systems, some smaller cities and many rural areas do not.

    Let's all just take a moment to remember how - and why - the internet was invented in the first place.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »

    Wait, no, the other thing.

    Predictable.

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    DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    Author: Ok, so this conspiracy basically begins the end of America.
    Editor: Does this conspiracy have a name?
    Author: The Mqyflower Conspiracy.
    Editor: Oh come on.

    Get outta here, Tom Clancy, that's just not believable!

    It was Barron controlling the strings all along. Ivanka was powerless to stop him.

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
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    augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Drovek wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    Author: Ok, so this conspiracy basically begins the end of America.
    Editor: Does this conspiracy have a name?
    Author: The Mqyflower Conspiracy.
    Editor: Oh come on.

    Get outta here, Tom Clancy, that's just not believable!

    It was Barron controlling the strings all along. Ivanka was powerless to stop him.

    No that's Orson Scott Card.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    This is a totally early Clancy story. Late Clancy it would have been a false flag set up by some Arabs and/or environmentalists.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    "The Mayflower Conspiracy" just sounds right, you know? Feels like that name has staying power. Bold, serious sounding, like a book chapter heading.

    It's even the name of a hotel. Maybe if that brings Trump down we can start calling all scandals XFlower instead of XGate.

    I seem to recall that some Republican talking head or other was the one who popularized calling everything a "gate", and his goal was to attempt to trivialize Watergate by watering it down because everything is a "gate" now. Arguable how successful he was, but the last thing I would want is to water down Trump's wrongs by naming everything after his greatest scandal.

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    Why make everything ___Gate when XYZ Affair has variables right in it's name!

    ujav5b9gwj1s.png
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    OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Because "the Mayflower Affair" sounds like an indy romantic dramedy film.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Because "the Mayflower Affair" sounds like an indy romantic dramedy film.

    Insufferable indie band.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    agoaj wrote: »
    Why make everything ___Gate when XYZ Affair has variables right in it's name!

    Mayflowerghazi

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    agoaj wrote: »
    Why make everything ___Gate when XYZ Affair has variables right in it's name!

    Mayflowerghazi

    -ghazi is for non-scandals. -gate is for the real thing.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Am I reading this wrong or did Sessions just unambiguously admit to perjury

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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    "The Mayflower Conspiracy" just sounds right, you know? Feels like that name has staying power. Bold, serious sounding, like a book chapter heading.

    It's even the name of a hotel. Maybe if that brings Trump down we can start calling all scandals XFlower instead of XGate.

    Mayflowery Mcmayflowerface?

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    Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Not a doctor Tree townRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Am I reading this wrong or did Sessions just unambiguously admit to perjury

    ...What are you reading?

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Am I reading this wrong or did Sessions just unambiguously admit to perjury

    What specifically are you reading? Because re: Senate confirmation, yes he admitted to not admitting to two known contacts with Kislyak.

    This would be a third that was not known of at the time, and I've not seen a comment from him on it.

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Am I reading this wrong or did Sessions just unambiguously admit to perjury

    The president of the united states basically admitted to obstruction of justice wrt this investigaion on national television with Lester Holt, so nothing would surprise me at this point.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    Tube wrote: »
    Am I reading this wrong or did Sessions just unambiguously admit to perjury

    reading that in what?

    BahamutZERO.gif
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