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American Foreign Policy

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    ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor changed Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    That doesn't seem to be the topic to bring up in your first discussion with Abbas.

    But what do I know, I only have as much experience in the matter as Jared Kushner.

    In an alternate universe, Kushner was equally shocked when Israel refused to remove any settlements as a show of good faith.

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    CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    Amazing, there is more to international diplomacy than simply relaying the demands of one side to the other.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Its here. One of my favorite surveys, what in the world does the world think about the USA. It produced some interesting results in the transition between Bush and Obama, and now we get to see the Obama Trump switch.

    PG_2017.06.26.US_Image-00-0.png

    PG_2017.06.26.US_Image-00-1.png

    The one piece of good news here is that Jordan and Tunisia are representative of MENA countries and opinion is already so low that it can't sink lower. I'm sad they didn't look at Pakistan again, since it was already in the single digits.

    Everywhere else is just amazing freefall, with Israel and particularly Russia standing out. I recommend reading the whole thing, it's full of fascinating details about America's image abroad. Did you know that Trump rates a 0% among Lebanese Shia?
    There are also stark divides on confidence in Trump among people of different races, ethnicities and religious affiliations in a few countries surveyed. In Lebanon, for example, a third of Christians say they have confidence in Trump’s international leadership abilities, compared with only 12% among Sunni Muslims and 0% among Lebanese Shia.

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/26/u-s-image-suffers-as-publics-around-world-question-trumps-leadership/

    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Is there a breakdown of South Africans by race? Because I bet that's pretty hilarious.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Damn, that would've been good, but no.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    But this is the best graphic

    PG_2017.06.26.US_Image-00-3.png

    You can just see everybody go "dammit America" "good job America!" "... seriously?"

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    I am surprised at the low confidence in Xi Jinping to do the right thing. I am suspicious that many of those answers are just based on people's preconceptions about China generally. (I mean, what would those people say when asked, "What was the last thing Xi Jinping did that you didn't approve of?")

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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    I am surprised at the low confidence in Xi Jinping to do the right thing. I am suspicious that many of those answers are just based on people's preconceptions about China generally. (I mean, what would those people say when asked, "What was the last thing Xi Jinping did that you didn't approve of?")

    If any of them know about the shit China's pulling in the South Asia sea, that would be a good reason.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    But this is the best graphic

    <snip>

    You can just see everybody go "dammit America" "good job America!" "... seriously?"

    I dunno, I like this one:

    PG_2017.06.26.US_Image-02-5.png

    Even the SOUTH KOREANS think your wall idea is stupid, Trump. If there were any nation in the world who would consider it of vital importance to secure a land border....

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I like that the one European nation that is kinda curious about the wall (Hungary) is itself undergoing a fascist revolution.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    But this is the best graphic

    PG_2017.06.26.US_Image-00-3.png

    You can just see everybody go "dammit America" "good job America!" "... seriously?"

    This graph should just be labelled "Obama's Nobel Peace Prize".

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Brits are kinda hypocrites, given what they're doing to themselves.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited June 2017
    PG_2017.06.26.US_Image-01-2.png

    You can feel the history in this one. No country where leftist like the US more than the right wing. I'm too lazy to look up the last survey, but I think it was similar. Same with the men-women split.

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I like that the one European nation that is kinda curious about the wall (Hungary) is itself undergoing a fascist revolution.

    Israel all on board with it too.

    Jordan equally so which is a bit curious.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Who are those 5% of Mexicans?

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The states we guarantee the independence of like us!

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Brits are kinda hypocrites, given what they're doing to themselves.

    I've been saying recently that they gave Obama a Nobel Peace Prize for not being Bush and whoever the first Democrat is after Trump is probably going to get the award renamed in their honor.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    The states we guarantee the independence of like us!

    Canada doesn't!

    hippofant on
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    DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Who are those 5% of Mexicans?

    Well, it would be amazing for our economy side we would be supplying the concrete...

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    hippofant wrote: »
    The states we guarantee the independence of like us!

    Canada doesn't!

    We're the only ones who could invade you! Can't really guarantee your independence except from ourselves.

    That said, my sister got engaged to a Canadian this weekend. She's part of a secret infiltration squad to prepare the attack.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I like that the one European nation that is kinda curious about the wall (Hungary) is itself undergoing a fascist revolution.

    Israel all on board with it too.

    Jordan equally so which is a bit curious.

    Jordan takes its security really seriously and is I suspect more sympathetic to those arguments.

    Somewhat understandable given that even their current modest level of prosperity is a product of stability and security more than any actual natural resources. They've been surrounded by bloody civil wars for decades and the refugees are stretching them thin. Proportionally, the Syrian refugee population is like if every Canadian moved to the US at once and left all their stuff behind, and Jordan has far less ability to provide for people.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    PG_2017.06.26.US_Image-01-2.png

    You can feel the history in this one. No country where leftist like the US more than the right wing. I'm too lazy to look up the last survey, but I think it was similar. Same with the men-women split.
    I found some older surveys but they don't break it down by left and right like this. I'll check some more to see if I can find a comparison, cause I'm interested.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Elki wrote: »
    PG_2017.06.26.US_Image-01-2.png

    You can feel the history in this one. No country where leftist like the US more than the right wing. I'm too lazy to look up the last survey, but I think it was similar. Same with the men-women split.
    I found some older surveys but they don't break it down by left and right like this. I'll check some more to see if I can find a comparison, cause I'm interested.

    Ooh, found it:
    http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/28/americas-international-image/
    GA_2016.06.29_balanceofpower-1-15.png

    The shift in Canada's view is what I was looking for and it's actually pretty interesting.

    Decrease across the board, but massive drop in favourability among those who view themselves as centrists.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Senator Bob Corker threatens to bar arms sales to the GCC until Saudi Arabia and friends stop being idiots (paraphrased). I think this is the sort of response that a more competent executive branch would make, and I wish the US would use this threat more often in its diplomacy.

    edit- i guess it's bob corker, not rob corker

    Kaputa on
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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    http://thehill.com/policy/international/339594-white-house-warns-of-syrian-preparation-for-chemical-attack
    The U.S. has “identified potential preparations for another chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime” in Syria, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in a Monday night statement.

    Such an attack “would likely result in the mass murder of civilians, including innocent children,” Spicer added, noting the activity is “similar to preparations the regime made before its April 4, 2017 chemical weapons attack.”

    U.S. warships launched more than 49 cruise missiles at a Syrian airbase in early April in response to a chemical attack believed to be carried out by forces loyal to Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    “As we have previously stated, the United States is in Syria to eliminate the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. If, however, Mr. Assad conducts another mass murder attack using chemical weapons, he and his military will pay a heavy price,” the White House added on Monday night.

    Good thing this White House doesn't have a hilariously awful credibility issue.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    http://thehill.com/policy/international/339594-white-house-warns-of-syrian-preparation-for-chemical-attack
    The U.S. has “identified potential preparations for another chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime” in Syria, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in a Monday night statement.

    Such an attack “would likely result in the mass murder of civilians, including innocent children,” Spicer added, noting the activity is “similar to preparations the regime made before its April 4, 2017 chemical weapons attack.”

    U.S. warships launched more than 49 cruise missiles at a Syrian airbase in early April in response to a chemical attack believed to be carried out by forces loyal to Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    “As we have previously stated, the United States is in Syria to eliminate the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. If, however, Mr. Assad conducts another mass murder attack using chemical weapons, he and his military will pay a heavy price,” the White House added on Monday night.

    Good thing this White House doesn't have a hilariously awful credibility issue.

    Or a phone line to the Kremlin anymore...

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Viskod wrote: »
    http://thehill.com/policy/international/339594-white-house-warns-of-syrian-preparation-for-chemical-attack
    The U.S. has “identified potential preparations for another chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime” in Syria, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in a Monday night statement.

    Such an attack “would likely result in the mass murder of civilians, including innocent children,” Spicer added, noting the activity is “similar to preparations the regime made before its April 4, 2017 chemical weapons attack.”

    U.S. warships launched more than 49 cruise missiles at a Syrian airbase in early April in response to a chemical attack believed to be carried out by forces loyal to Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    “As we have previously stated, the United States is in Syria to eliminate the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. If, however, Mr. Assad conducts another mass murder attack using chemical weapons, he and his military will pay a heavy price,” the White House added on Monday night.

    Good thing this White House doesn't have a hilariously awful credibility issue.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiakoerner/white-house-says-syria-may-be-preparing-another-chemical
    Officials at US Central Command told BuzzFeed News they have "no idea" what prompted the statement. Pentagon spokesmen did not answer calls seeking comment. Secretary of Defense James Mattis departed earlier Monday evening for a three-day trip to Germany and Belgium, and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Joseph Dunford was in Afghanistan.
    God, they are so bad at this.

    Edit:
    Five defense officials reached by BuzzFeed News said they not only did not know where the potential chemical attack would come from, but they were unaware the White House was planning to release the statement. Usually such statements are coordinated across the national security agencies and departments before they are released.

    Couscous on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular


    Centcom has no idea what the fuck they're talking about, they tell Buzzfeed.

    WHEEEEEEEEE

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    From that buzzfeed article
    Any further attacks done to the people of Syria will be blamed on Assad, but also on Russia & Iran who support him killing his own people.

    uh. I don't like the sound of this one.

    Kaputa on
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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Could just be bullshit, because if there isn't an attack soon Trump gets to take credit for preventing one.

    Well, he shouldn't "get to". But he's gonna.

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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    From that buzzfeed article
    Any further attacks done to the people of Syria will be blamed on Assad, but also on Russia & Iran who support him killing his own people.

    uh. I don't like the sound of this one.

    Wait wtf?

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    TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    From that buzzfeed article
    Any further attacks done to the people of Syria will be blamed on Assad, but also on Russia & Iran who support him killing his own people.

    uh. I don't like the sound of this one.

    She forgets who her boss's boss is.

    steam_sig.png
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The Trumpiest thing would be to say "I didn't collude with Russia and I'll start WW3 with them to prove it."

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    http://thehill.com/policy/international/339594-white-house-warns-of-syrian-preparation-for-chemical-attack
    The U.S. has “identified potential preparations for another chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime” in Syria, White House press secretary Sean Spicer said in a Monday night statement.

    Such an attack “would likely result in the mass murder of civilians, including innocent children,” Spicer added, noting the activity is “similar to preparations the regime made before its April 4, 2017 chemical weapons attack.”

    U.S. warships launched more than 49 cruise missiles at a Syrian airbase in early April in response to a chemical attack believed to be carried out by forces loyal to Syrian President Bashar Assad.

    “As we have previously stated, the United States is in Syria to eliminate the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. If, however, Mr. Assad conducts another mass murder attack using chemical weapons, he and his military will pay a heavy price,” the White House added on Monday night.

    Good thing this White House doesn't have a hilariously awful credibility issue.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiakoerner/white-house-says-syria-may-be-preparing-another-chemical
    Officials at US Central Command told BuzzFeed News they have "no idea" what prompted the statement. Pentagon spokesmen did not answer calls seeking comment. Secretary of Defense James Mattis departed earlier Monday evening for a three-day trip to Germany and Belgium, and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Joseph Dunford was in Afghanistan.
    God, they are so bad at this.

    Edit:
    Five defense officials reached by BuzzFeed News said they not only did not know where the potential chemical attack would come from, but they were unaware the White House was planning to release the statement. Usually such statements are coordinated across the national security agencies and departments before they are released.

    My first thought tonight was that maybe this is McMaster or mattis having Intel, but if centcom doesn't have the intel I doubt it's the military

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    AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    If Assad does another chemical attack, doesn't that pretty much prove that Trump's missile strike the last time was a failure?

    I mean, there's nothing they can't spin, just...

    Come to think of it maybe this is Trump wanting the media back on his side. "Remember when those people got gassed and you all said that was the day I became President? Let's do that again! I want to become the President again!"

    ACsTqqK.jpg
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    If Assad does another chemical attack we'll lob a couple dozen tomahawks at them. Brian Williams will have an orgasm. And hopefully we don't actually kill any Russians precipitating a larger role in the conflict.

    moniker on
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Who are those 5% of Mexicans?
    (who approve of the border wall)

    Nonserious answer, it's like Watchmen's Rorsharch. "You're not just walling yourselves off from us. You're walling us from you!"

    Serious answer, employers. It's a general rule of economics. More people who can't get jobs elsewhere, is more people competing for the jobs that do. Which will depress wage prices.

    This is especially going to be important in the agricultural sector. Not just the wage depression, but if the immigration crackdown in the US ramps up, that's going to lead to knock-on costs in farming, as labor costs increase (or output drops). So prices will rise either due to increased base costs, or lack of supply. That allows Mexican farmers to be able to increase prices/market share for no real cost.

    So, that'd be one sector that'd not be theoretically opposed to the wall.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Who are those 5% of Mexicans?
    (who approve of the border wall)

    Nonserious answer, it's like Watchmen's Rorsharch. "You're not just walling yourselves off from us. You're walling us from you!"

    Serious answer, employers. It's a general rule of economics. More people who can't get jobs elsewhere, is more people competing for the jobs that do. Which will depress wage prices.

    This is especially going to be important in the agricultural sector. Not just the wage depression, but if the immigration crackdown in the US ramps up, that's going to lead to knock-on costs in farming, as labor costs increase (or output drops). So prices will rise either due to increased base costs, or lack of supply. That allows Mexican farmers to be able to increase prices/market share for no real cost.

    So, that'd be one sector that'd not be theoretically opposed to the wall.

    They'd presumably be able to lower their own labour costs too? And there'd be higher demand for agricultural goods on their own side of the wall too now!

    Also, smugglers.

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    Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Blight on Discourse Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    So we'll be at war in Syria, North Korea, and Qatar. In a trade war with most of the EU and Canada, along with China and most of the pacific as they gravitate towards China. In a cultural "war" with Mexico for no good reason which is crippling our ability to farm.

    This literally reads like the section in the history book that describes the run up to a World War. Jesus Christ.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited June 2017
    Astaereth wrote: »
    If Assad does another chemical attack, doesn't that pretty much prove that Trump's missile strike the last time was a failure?

    I mean, there's nothing they can't spin, just...

    Come to think of it maybe this is Trump wanting the media back on his side. "Remember when those people got gassed and you all said that was the day I became President? Let's do that again! I want to become the President again!"

    If Assad makes another chemical attack all Trump needs to look in the mirror to blame for how we got in this mess. He's the one who ignored Obama's advice with the region.

    Harry Dresden on
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