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Penny Arcade - Comic - Discretionary Heroism

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited July 7 in The Penny Arcade Hub

imagePenny Arcade - Comic - Discretionary Heroism

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here


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  • echtogammutechtogammut Registered User regular
    I do feel a little guilty when playing games where the story claims urgency in completing your mission and I'm doing side missions for trinkets and power-ups. I can't remember the first game where I realized it didn't matter how long I took to finish the main mission... maybe Ultima, but once you realize that, it kinda ruins your immersion of the game universe.

    cB557Kayne Red Robe
  • poipoigirlpoipoigirl Registered User regular
    lol But you know that sword can be a lil more bedazzled.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    This reminds me of when I was playing fall out 4. My wife was all

    "Aren't you supposed to be looking for your kid or something?"

    "Oh he's fine, you know he's probably good, I'm just going to, yep going over here to check out these raiders they might know something."

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Golden slumbers fill your eyes Smiles await you when you riseRegistered User regular
    The first game I ever noticed this phenomenon in was Final Fantasy VII.

    That guy Sephiroth sure is about to destroy the whole world, but I'm pretty close to having a perfect run on this motorcycle minigame at the Golden Saucer, and then my Limit Break will be even more... Limit Breaky.

    Snowboards ain't gonna ride themselves, ya know.

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  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    Look old oak motherfucker I don't tell you how to root yourself or be wise or whatever how about you don't tell me how to save the world?

    Or do you want to try taking down an ancient unkillable evil? No? Then quit your barking.

    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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  • Azur3flameAzur3flame Registered User new member
    It's like playing Arkham Knight, and the whole goddamn time Riddler is nagging me to play his annoying HotWheelsOfDoom BS while I'm trying to prevent a city from burning to the ground. Eff off, Nigma. I'll save Catwoman later, you won't kill her, you have to feed that precious ego so you need it to be my fault for failing a dumb minigame. The Batmobile is already close to indestructible, I'm not that worried about chasing upgrades for it.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Pretty much any open world game I end up dicking around long before I do any main quest. In a way its paralyzing. I open the map and see all this unexplored shit and I'm like "buh where do I start where?" and then almost like lock up.

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  • GDT1985GDT1985 Registered User regular
    So which is more immersion breaking? The evil boss that waits for you to stop him, or the vendors that will make you pay for the gear that will help you save the world?

  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell The ResistanceRegistered User regular
    GDT1985 wrote: »
    So which is more immersion breaking? The evil boss that waits for you to stop him, or the vendors that will make you pay for the gear that will help you save the world?

    i mean, the latter is just regular old evil capitalism, which is too real, soooooo...

    BloodySlothTofystedethAndy JoeKayne Red RobeMan in the MistsCambiata
  • swaylowswaylow Registered User regular
    The comic and comments now have me wondering what games actually have consequences for taking too long. I can't think of any but I'm sure there are at least a few where the outcome is different based on the time/path to completion?

  • Christian LeBlancChristian LeBlanc Registered User regular
    I played a lot of JRPGs in the 90s where I thought "If I don't leave the first town, this world will never be in danger, it will always be safe and protected." I could never leave well enough alone, though, I had to go trigger the kidnapping or dark lord appearance or whatever and get the quest on.

  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    "Oh, sure, gripe at me for wasting time. What about all your little fucking children or whatever they are, hiding in every damn halfway interesting looking spot that I think may have a shrine I need to be strong enough to defeat Gannon? I fly all the way over there, thinking maybe that dohickey will pop open a shrine and what do I get? A seed. Also, lets talk about your fatass seed kid who won't let me hold more shit until I find all these seeds, okay? You know how often weapons break in this place, right?? Wouldn't it be nice to hold a few more without having to find an exponentially increasing amount of bullshit for that little pervert? Yeah, pervert. I've seen him when those maracas explode, and I know you have too. That's just not normal.

    "And would it have killed you to have had even one of those 900 idiots sitting at the entrance to this dank forest to guide me to you?"

    Andy JoeMan in the MistsVyolyncekime
  • MaryAmeliaMaryAmelia Registered User regular
    Mass Effect 2 had different endings based on the time you took to finish the main quest.

    swaylowLostNinjaSorcekime
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited July 7
    swaylow wrote: »
    The comic and comments now have me wondering what games actually have consequences for taking too long. I can't think of any but I'm sure there are at least a few where the outcome is different based on the time/path to completion?

    Either Fallout 1 or 2 had a town that you'd get a warning about and it'd be destroyed if you took too long getting there.

    Mass Effect 2, to a limited extent had one.

    Deus Ex: HR had a small one as well at the start.

    Syphon Filter had one? But you could OHK the final boss with the poison grenades so... it was a general outlier.

    But in modern times there's not that many that I can think of where timers matter (edit: within the context of the comic. Games with openly timed mechanics are usually clearly stamped as such.)

    edit: It was possible to run out of time in the Way of the Samurai games too, which resulted in different endings. The first two Dead Rising games, the third is fairly generous about the time.

    tastydonuts on
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  • SmoogySmoogy Registered User regular
    This is awesome.

    But...I gotta say. Am I the only one who thinks the exclamation point in "I gotta say!" is a bit jarring? Nitpicky for sure, but it doesn't sit well with me, haha. Who screams out "I gotta say!" like that? I guess, trees do...

    Smoogy-1689
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Golden slumbers fill your eyes Smiles await you when you riseRegistered User regular
    The art is really great in this one too.

    Steam ID: joshofalltrades31
    Rehab
  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    swaylow wrote: »
    The comic and comments now have me wondering what games actually have consequences for taking too long. I can't think of any but I'm sure there are at least a few where the outcome is different based on the time/path to completion?

    Well there is a Zelda game that does have some dire consequences for taking too long.

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  • NamrokNamrok Herndon, VARegistered User regular
    swaylow wrote: »
    The comic and comments now have me wondering what games actually have consequences for taking too long. I can't think of any but I'm sure there are at least a few where the outcome is different based on the time/path to completion?

    Either Fallout 1 or 2 had a town that you'd get a warning about and it'd be destroyed if you took too long getting there.

    Fallout 1 had you finding a water chip to save the vault you lived in. If you took too long, they ran out of water and died. You could arrange for a water caravan to supply them, which extended the deadline. But I vaguely recall there being consequences for disclosing the location of the vault.

    This was a hotly debated feature in the game, affecting reviews here and there, although not a lot from what I remember. But it did cause enough annoyance that the sequel dropped any such limit.

    Funnily enough, I never beat Fallout 2. I mean, in my mind I did. I left my naive tribal village, became a man of the world, made it to New Reno and made that town my bitch. Heaveweight boxing champion, porn star, casino boss, had a badass car. Then my village got kidnapped and you know what... I'm just too comfy in New Reno to care about them anymore. That's the ending I wrote for my character.

    Still one of the greatest role playing games ever.

  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    I recall that the main quest line for the original Mechwarrior could not be completed if the calendar hit the start of the 4th Succession War. Star Control 2 also had a time limit.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Namrok wrote: »
    swaylow wrote: »
    The comic and comments now have me wondering what games actually have consequences for taking too long. I can't think of any but I'm sure there are at least a few where the outcome is different based on the time/path to completion?

    Either Fallout 1 or 2 had a town that you'd get a warning about and it'd be destroyed if you took too long getting there.

    Fallout 1 had you finding a water chip to save the vault you lived in. If you took too long, they ran out of water and died. You could arrange for a water caravan to supply them, which extended the deadline. But I vaguely recall there being consequences for disclosing the location of the vault.

    Yup, new deadline, which was the Master's mutant army finding them. Which was, uh, bad.

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  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Or just "Ron" Registered User regular
    Far Cry 4 has a good alternate ending based on time limits.

  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Kagera wrote: »
    Look old oak motherfucker I don't tell you how to root yourself or be wise or whatever how about you don't tell me how to save the world?

    Or do you want to try taking down an ancient unkillable evil? No? Then quit your barking.

    Nice.

    Nobeard wrote: »
    You can even mount some non-animals...

    Steam:MichaelLC
    Smrtnik
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 7
    Far Cry 4 has a good alternate ending based on time limits.

    That's my head cannon ending

    Like you drop the ashes off, and then go blow some cars up with Minh before going home and wondering what the fuck happened.

    Preacher on
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  • SadgasmSadgasm Deluded doodler A cold placeRegistered User regular
    This actually got to be a problem for me back in Skyrim, I got caught up in the Civil War quest, and ended up forgetting it wasnt the main quest. Turns out I had completely forgotten about it right after meeting the Skybeards and spent like two weeks trying to keep the Empire and Stormcloaks from killing eachother while dragons turned the place into a buffet.

    PreachercB557
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "Oh, that's right - I should probably stop that whole 'civil war' thing, especially the part where Ulfric's being the unknowing patsy for the Thalmor."

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  • SadgasmSadgasm Deluded doodler A cold placeRegistered User regular
    "Oh, that's right - I should probably stop that whole 'civil war' thing, especially the part where Ulfric's being the unknowing patsy for the Thalmor."

    Too bad you never actually get around to stopping the Nazi Elves and their plans are going completely unchecked by the end, even if you do resolve the Civil War plot completely non-violently. Granted, the Evil Space Dragon eating the universe probably takes precedence, but I would have liked to have gotten the option to atleast screw over the Thalmor a little bit.

    Man in the MistsCommander ZoomBloodySloth
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Zelda feels all bad for Link cause he missed his childhood. But everyone else had to live through seven years of misery. Well, except for most of the people who died and then had to undead for seven years. Link didn't even have to have puberty! But even in a world where most of the populous is dead, Link manages to find minigames and sidequests.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    GDT1985 wrote: »
    So which is more immersion breaking? The evil boss that waits for you to stop him, or the vendors that will make you pay for the gear that will help you save the world?

    Look, the world ends, I die. You save the world and I'm broke, I starve to death. There's only one player character and you're the only one who shops here. What, that guy? His script brings him in here once a day to look at that shelf. He never buys anything off it. In fact, that shelf is empty. Somebody stole everything on it. I wonder who that was. You jerk.

    Commander ZoomdenniscB557VyolynceRatherDashing89A Dabble Of TheloniusIron WeaselWolf of DresdenH3Knuckles
  • SadgasmSadgasm Deluded doodler A cold placeRegistered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    GDT1985 wrote: »
    So which is more immersion breaking? The evil boss that waits for you to stop him, or the vendors that will make you pay for the gear that will help you save the world?

    Look, the world ends, I die. You save the world and I'm broke, I starve to death. There's only one player character and you're the only one who shops here. What, that guy? His script brings him in here once a day to look at that shelf. He never buys anything off it. In fact, that shelf is empty. Somebody stole everything on it. I wonder who that was. You jerk.

    I think Castlevania is one of the worst offenders with this, a few of the pre-Symphony entries literally had merchants hiding inside the goddamn walls of the castle like some sort of opportunistic vermin. Do these assholes just follow the Belmonts around hoping to sell Holy Water and Turkey Legs to them? Because they cant possibly make that much of a return on their investment. Unless there's like, an entire guild of merchants who follow every single chosen hero around on their epic quests to sell them stuff.

  • YoungFreyYoungFrey Registered User regular
    edited July 9
    Hevach wrote: »
    GDT1985 wrote: »
    So which is more immersion breaking? The evil boss that waits for you to stop him, or the vendors that will make you pay for the gear that will help you save the world?

    Look, the world ends, I die. You save the world and I'm broke, I starve to death. There's only one player character and you're the only one who shops here. What, that guy? His script brings him in here once a day to look at that shelf. He never buys anything off it. In fact, that shelf is empty. Somebody stole everything on it. I wonder who that was. You jerk.

    You know what they say in business: "When there is a gold rush, sell shovels". Who says you're the first hero? That shopkeep was probably raised on money their parents made from selling gear to an endless stream of heroes who couldn't hack it.

    YoungFrey on
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Sadgasm wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    GDT1985 wrote: »
    So which is more immersion breaking? The evil boss that waits for you to stop him, or the vendors that will make you pay for the gear that will help you save the world?

    Look, the world ends, I die. You save the world and I'm broke, I starve to death. There's only one player character and you're the only one who shops here. What, that guy? His script brings him in here once a day to look at that shelf. He never buys anything off it. In fact, that shelf is empty. Somebody stole everything on it. I wonder who that was. You jerk.

    I think Castlevania is one of the worst offenders with this, a few of the pre-Symphony entries literally had merchants hiding inside the goddamn walls of the castle like some sort of opportunistic vermin. Do these assholes just follow the Belmonts around hoping to sell Holy Water and Turkey Legs to them? Because they cant possibly make that much of a return on their investment. Unless there's like, an entire guild of merchants who follow every single chosen hero around on their epic quests to sell them stuff.

    I'd buy that at a high price.

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    swaylow wrote: »
    The comic and comments now have me wondering what games actually have consequences for taking too long. I can't think of any but I'm sure there are at least a few where the outcome is different based on the time/path to completion?

    I've had an npc melt because i took too long to do his sidequest in Sunless Sea.

    steam_sig.png
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    swaylow wrote: »
    The comic and comments now have me wondering what games actually have consequences for taking too long. I can't think of any but I'm sure there are at least a few where the outcome is different based on the time/path to completion?

    Either Fallout 1 or 2 had a town that you'd get a warning about and it'd be destroyed if you took too long getting there.

    Mass Effect 2, to a limited extent had one.

    Deus Ex: HR had a small one as well at the start.

    Syphon Filter had one? But you could OHK the final boss with the poison grenades so... it was a general outlier.

    But in modern times there's not that many that I can think of where timers matter (edit: within the context of the comic. Games with openly timed mechanics are usually clearly stamped as such.)

    edit: It was possible to run out of time in the Way of the Samurai games too, which resulted in different endings. The first two Dead Rising games, the third is fairly generous about the time.

    Star Control 2 did this the best. In game clock, take too long and one of the big bad armadas defeats the others and goes around literally cleansing the galaxy of races. You lose if they wipe out Earth

    Of course, while they are doing that it actually becomes easier to complete some objectives (and impossible to complete others as the species you need to talk to is ash) so it's not even a meaningless timer

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  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    Sadgasm wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    GDT1985 wrote: »
    So which is more immersion breaking? The evil boss that waits for you to stop him, or the vendors that will make you pay for the gear that will help you save the world?

    Look, the world ends, I die. You save the world and I'm broke, I starve to death. There's only one player character and you're the only one who shops here. What, that guy? His script brings him in here once a day to look at that shelf. He never buys anything off it. In fact, that shelf is empty. Somebody stole everything on it. I wonder who that was. You jerk.

    I think Castlevania is one of the worst offenders with this, a few of the pre-Symphony entries literally had merchants hiding inside the goddamn walls of the castle like some sort of opportunistic vermin. Do these assholes just follow the Belmonts around hoping to sell Holy Water and Turkey Legs to them? Because they cant possibly make that much of a return on their investment. Unless there's like, an entire guild of merchants who follow every single chosen hero around on their epic quests to sell them stuff.

    this sounds ripe for a game idea (that's probably already been done, and yes, I know about Recettear and Holy Potatoes and I meant the more specific idea about a merchant having to follow a hero through a dangerous world and pop up at opportune times)

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  • EmperorSethEmperorSeth Registered User regular
    Perfect blade? Birch, please. A perfect blade wouldn't have a base attack of 30 and need recharging every few minutes.

    You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
    forty
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    So you'll upgrade it to a consistent strength of 60, and keep the recharging.

    You know where you could go to have it always be at a power of 60? The castle.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
  • DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited July 10
    Also this:

    215087164_BswKG-2100x20000.jpg

    But you had 6 months ingame time in order to finish the main quest. (otherwise the main villain shows up in a cutsequence and murders you).

    Dratatoo on
  • RigamarawRigamaraw Registered User regular
    swaylow wrote: »
    The comic and comments now have me wondering what games actually have consequences for taking too long. I can't think of any but I'm sure there are at least a few where the outcome is different based on the time/path to completion?

    Either Fallout 1 or 2 had a town that you'd get a warning about and it'd be destroyed if you took too long getting there.

    Mass Effect 2, to a limited extent had one.

    Deus Ex: HR had a small one as well at the start.

    Syphon Filter had one? But you could OHK the final boss with the poison grenades so... it was a general outlier.

    But in modern times there's not that many that I can think of where timers matter (edit: within the context of the comic. Games with openly timed mechanics are usually clearly stamped as such.)

    edit: It was possible to run out of time in the Way of the Samurai games too, which resulted in different endings. The first two Dead Rising games, the third is fairly generous about the time.

    Fallout 1 had two timers: one visible timer counts down to your vault running out of water without a replacement purifier chip, and an invisible timer that starts after you're banished from the vault that counts down to the Master taking over (destroying?) the wasteland. My first play-through ended abruptly when the secondary, invisible timer ran out while I was living my post-vault life exploring/trying to get the special random encounters.

  • ShowsniShowsni Registered User regular
    swaylow wrote: »
    The comic and comments now have me wondering what games actually have consequences for taking too long. I can't think of any but I'm sure there are at least a few where the outcome is different based on the time/path to completion?

    There are some games with hard time limits, like The Magic Candle. And some which basically have a time limit, like Wizardry 4, where apparently messing around too much makes the game unwinnable. Then things like Castlevania 2 where the time taken just affects which ending you get.

  • Richter12x2Richter12x2 Registered User new member
    You can move figs on a gridded board and set/save/load terrain.

    Move figs? I'm guessing it's because people who play D&D don't have dates?

    ... sorry, I registered exclusively for this pun.

    Rhesus Positive
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