Honestly I'm sure McConnell is hoping McCain doesn't last too long and the replacement senator from Arizona will be more jeff flake.
If McCain was doing Doocy's (Ducy?) will, then its reasonable to assume his appointee won't be in Flake's mold.
And the replacement would have to be reelected the next time there's a general election, right? Arizona is not Nevada, but a newly appointed senator wouldn't have the cache to absorb a bad vote for that like a normal incumbent would
Nah McConnell's emotion is too real for this to have been a stage show. He got played by McCain, whether that was the whole plan or not I don't know, but he got fucked last night.
Just want to reiterate this: McConnell was on the verge of tears during that speech. I watched it live. Whatever happens now it will never be the same for him or the GOP. He used every trick he could muster and it wasn't enough. He looked tired of getting kicked in the teeth. He seemed ready to move on and I suspect that means there will be no serious effort in the Senate to repeal the ACA anytime soon.
"Can we stop praising three Republican Senators for literally just not being completely awful people?
like ok, I get it, but honestly they really just did the bare minimum last night.
And where's the single player plan at, Democrats?
So over our government..."
Like yeah, I get the first part but guess what that second part is the exact reason we're in this mess. GAH!
Even hyperconservative governors can read the writing on the wall for who would be blamed if huge swaths of their state lost healthcare. I don't know how right wing AZ's gov is, but most of the expansion state govs have been pragmatic about this sort of thing.
I don't live in Maine or Alaska, but I called and thanked both Collins and Murkowski. Least I can do. If McCain's sense of decency remains I'll give him a buzz too. The fact is he (or any one of them I guess) could have ended it ages ago.
Even hyperconservative governors can read the writing on the wall for who would be blamed if huge swaths of their state lost healthcare. I don't know how right wing AZ's gov is, but most of the expansion state govs have been pragmatic about this sort of thing.
Arizona's governor was one of those pushing McCain to vote no and was doing it publicly.
Anybody he'd appoint to replace McCain is going to pretty much have to tattoo "No" on his forehead for this issue.
Even hyperconservative governors can read the writing on the wall for who would be blamed if huge swaths of their state lost healthcare. I don't know how right wing AZ's gov is, but most of the expansion state govs have been pragmatic about this sort of thing.
The big thing this whole clusterfuck attempt to kill people has cemented is that "# of people covered" is the most important metric now. Which is a huge political win for the Left and why a bunch of GOP governors are essentially caving on the issue.
One of the things from last night that I'm not really seeing talked about in the various play by plays and think pieces I'm reading today is that it only went down the way it did because Republican Senate leadership had exactly the same expectation of McCain that we did going into the vote. That he was gonna talk big about process and the dignity of the body and then fold like a cheap suit when it came down to it. And the reason they, and we, had that idea of what was about to happen is because it is what happened lliterally every other time a big vote has come down to McCain.
For all the people out there penning his lionization today, there doesn't seem to be anyone really acknowledging that right up until sometime after Midnight last night he's been little more than a rubber stamp for whatever terrible things his party wanted to do.
Even hyperconservative governors can read the writing on the wall for who would be blamed if huge swaths of their state lost healthcare. I don't know how right wing AZ's gov is, but most of the expansion state govs have been pragmatic about this sort of thing.
Arizona's governor was one of those pushing McCain to vote no and was doing it publicly.
Anybody he'd appoint to replace McCain is going to pretty much have to tattoo "No" on his forehead for this issue.
Eh, Arizona's governor's statement on the issue was wishy-washy as hell and open to interpretation. It could easily have been read as "We'll fix it in Conference".
I would bet the shift here is as much to do with the House playing chicken with the Senate as anything.
The House already failed to put together a bill that had any chance in the Senate. Or that the House really wanted to end up passing.
The rock bottom truth here is that the Republican party cannot govern on this issue because the connective tissue of the caucus isn't any sort of positive policy proscription.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds.2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Also they have convinced their base (mostly elderly, rural, and poor) that they want something that, once they have it, will lead to them losing control of the base wholesale. If they do the things they promised, the primary people harmed are GOP constituents.
Yeah Ryan being a snake person about "Sure we won't pass the skinny repeal *wink*" probably was the ultimate calculus against it.
The whole crazy series of events from lunch to the afternoon press conferences about how the repeal absolutely wasn't meant to be voted on by the House was kind of amazing.
If you were watching the right places, you could see United States Senators go from "wait, is that really a thing" to "and that motherfucker Ryan will absolutely do it, too" over the course of a couple of consecutive hallway interviews.
The House already failed to put together a bill that had any chance in the Senate. Or that the House really wanted to end up passing.
The rock bottom truth here is that the Republican party cannot govern on this issue because the connective tissue of the caucus isn't any sort of positive policy proscription.
The GOP does not give a shit about Healthcare in the end, so they have no strategy or desires for it.
"Stop Obamacare", "Repeal Obamacare" and "Free Market Healthcare" are all just knee-jerk reactions to the Left trying to solve the issue and not a coherent ideology on the subject.
Phone numbers for people who deserve a thank you but probably aren't your senator:
Senator Murkowski: (202) 224-6665
Senator Collins: (202) 224-2523
Senator McCain: (202) 224-2235
They had room in their mailboxes when I called this morning. I urge you to call and share your thoughts with them too. They stepped up when we needed them. Let them know how you feel about it.
Wrote an email to Heller today expressing disappointment as one of his constituents at his yes vote.
I was already quite happy to vote him out next year, but I want him to continue to feel the heat of watchful gazes at his terrible votes, even on things that ultimately fail.
The rock bottom truth here is that the Republican party cannot govern on this issue because the connective tissue of the caucus isn't any sort of positive policy proscription.
The only thing they had was being anti-democrats, and even that couldn't get them over the hump on the issue with the most democratic baggage.
The rock bottom truth here is that the Republican party cannot govern on this issue because the connective tissue of the caucus isn't any sort of positive policy proscription.
The only thing they had was being anti-democrats, and even that couldn't get them over the hump on the issue with the most democratic baggage.
Nah, they are pretty unified on things like "cutting taxes".
Healthcare simply isn't one of those things.
shryke on
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Gennenalyse RuebenThe Prettiest Boy is Ridiculously PrettyRegistered Userregular
I was ill all of Wednesday and most of yesterday, so I was basically out of the loop on all this past "McCain returns to vote to initiate debate". And probably too loopy to actually understand what was happening even if I was paying attention.
More than a little shocked to wake up today, my fever broken and this "skinny repeal" defeated. A good kind of shocked, mind!
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Orphanerivers of redthat run to seaRegistered Userregular
Apocalypse averted, narrowly
but the war goes on in terms of protecting healthcare and who knows what the Republicans will attempt next?
I just hope we can absolutely crucify most of the Republicans in the midterm elections with their votes.
One thing I'm curious about in terms of the general process of all this madness: the latest collapse of this legislation's being described as some colossal defeat, the culmination of seven years of Republican tantrums on the subject. What makes this different from the previous eighty or so(!) attempts to kill the ACA, or the dozens that are going to follow?
Can bet there's going to be a lot of party pressure on McCain to retire now.
I'm wondering when the truly awful tweets are going to appear. Trump will go after mccain for brain cancer, and Murkowski and collins for ... being women, I guess.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
One thing I'm curious about in terms of the general process of all this madness: the latest collapse of this legislation's being described as some colossal defeat, the culmination of seven years of Republican tantrums on the subject. What makes this different from the previous eighty or so(!) attempts to kill the ACA, or the dozens that are going to follow?
The symbolic attempts were made knowing full well A) Obama would veto them and there weren't numbers to override the veto. They were for show, for the constituents.
Now, they control all levers of government. Can make up whatever rules they want short of changing the Constitution. Can throw all decorum out the window.
And they still lost. And in a way that will make it much harder to bring the ACA back up for a vote.
One thing I'm curious about in terms of the general process of all this madness: the latest collapse of this legislation's being described as some colossal defeat, the culmination of seven years of Republican tantrums on the subject. What makes this different from the previous eighty or so(!) attempts to kill the ACA, or the dozens that are going to follow?
This will absolutely come back up if McConnell thinks the math has changed. There's reason to be optimistic though. He was benefiting from a lot of inertia. It'll be harder to get all these Senators to vote for something they don't want to when there are other things going on instead.
As I understand the procedural stuff (which isn't great) the motion to proceed on Tuesday was the one where McConnell could back out. McCain voting yes there locked McConnell in. Maybe because this last vote was an amentment? I'm just guessing.
They had three proposals in the Senate. A "middle" one, a slightly more generous variaton with buyouts for key folks, and a clean repeal attempt for the conservatives. All three were pushed down by grassroots activism. After that, the parameters of popular opinion are clear. They can't really do any of the things they promised without really pissing people off, so as a party they have to find a way to slide out of the situation.
Not sure if McConnell saw this coming. He might have, it was probably a possibility on his mind, along with hoping that somehow this could be slid though. I believe Graham and the others who issued a statement to Paul Ryan almost certainly saw it when their statement came out. That request was something impossible, and they knew it.
This way, McCain gets to play to the cameras, everyone else gets to cast the vote they think is safest. And in the end, it's those "dastardly moderates" who killed their repeal attempt, and their base doesn't get any cold water thrown in their face.
One thing I'm curious about in terms of the general process of all this madness: the latest collapse of this legislation's being described as some colossal defeat, the culmination of seven years of Republican tantrums on the subject. What makes this different from the previous eighty or so(!) attempts to kill the ACA, or the dozens that are going to follow?
Most of the previous ones where just song and dance because they knew Obama was going to veto them. Having Trump in the white house changed the equation.
This loss is important (but not world ending) because it as the Republicans failing to pass Legislation despite having all 3 bodies. They can try again, but unless they actually, you know, TRY this time instead of crafting bills in secret and rushing them out there at the last minute, there's no guarantee it will have any better chance of passing than the previous one did.
It's not over, but the Republicans had all the cards and failed. It's a blow to their ego and to their reputation.
One thing I'm curious about in terms of the general process of all this madness: the latest collapse of this legislation's being described as some colossal defeat, the culmination of seven years of Republican tantrums on the subject. What makes this different from the previous eighty or so(!) attempts to kill the ACA, or the dozens that are going to follow?
They have full control of the government now. They could have passed this, but were unable to find a bill all Republicans could vote for.
Some of them want conflicting things. That's fine when it doesn't matter because Obama will veto anything you pass, it's another matter when suddenly it can actually become law and you are responsible for any damage it might do.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I hope this isn't veering off topic but: One looming question is: will there be any repercussions for how slimy and literally-behind-closed-doors this was as a process?
We have a brief reprieve from the healthcare issue until we find out their next move (or whether they're going to let it go), but the way this has been approached was really startling.
If they move on to the next issue that's a fig leaf for tax cuts will they do the exact same thing? If they come right back to healthcare because they want to deliver on repealing Obamacare as a talking point for their base, it doesn't seem like they'll say "okay this time we'll do everything on the floor with open debate" given how close this came to working.
Checking in with Trump's twitter this morning reveals the following tweets about healthcare. They appear surprisingly restrained and as usual reveal a lack of understanding of what actually happened.
(The final vote on the bill last night was 49-51. But nobody tell him that...)
I suppose the worst part about all this is that Trump still gets to do his "See? I was right all along and everybody doubted me!" bullshit that just never fucking stops.
One thing I'm curious about in terms of the general process of all this madness: the latest collapse of this legislation's being described as some colossal defeat, the culmination of seven years of Republican tantrums on the subject. What makes this different from the previous eighty or so(!) attempts to kill the ACA, or the dozens that are going to follow?
They have full control of the government now. They could have passed this, but were unable to find a bill all Republicans could vote for.
Some of them want conflicting things. That's fine when it doesn't matter because Obama will veto anything you pass, it's another matter when suddenly it can actually become law and you are responsible for any damage it might do.
Also, none of them wanted any of the three options to go through! They keep holding out for some socially acceptable revision, but in reality Boehner seems to being proven right. before 2010 or not at all.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Checking in with Trump's twitter this morning reveals the following tweets about healthcare. They appear surprisingly restrained and as usual reveal a lack of understanding of what actually happened.
(The final vote on the bill last night was 49-51. But nobody tell him that...)
I suppose the worst part about all this is that Trump still gets to do his "See? I was right all along and everybody doubted me!" bullshit that just never fucking stops.
when you talk out both sides of your mouth and never believe anything you say, you can always be right no matter what happens
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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L Ron HowardThe duckMinnesotaRegistered Userregular
Can bet there's going to be a lot of party pressure on McCain to retire now.
I'm wondering when the truly awful tweets are going to appear. Trump will go after mccain for brain cancer, and Murkowski and collins for ... being women, I guess.
Murkowski and Collins were already receiving threats from other Congressmen. I'd expect it to increase.
(Article is just a summation. I know in the other thread these were already reported.)
President Trump publicly shamed Murkowski on Twitter:
Murkowski then got a call from Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke, who reportedly threatened to punish Alaska’s economy based on her health care vote, according to the Alaska Dispatch News.
They can't use the same process for healthcare after october 1 because this is last year's reconciliation bill, which expires on october 1. they have already earmarked next year's reconciliation bill for taxes (which they now don't have any way to pay for, since they didn't pass a healthcare cut) so they'd have to wait until october 1 2018, right before an election.
not a good time to be playing around with bills that have approval ratings of 17%.
Indeed, this is the first time they actually put real effort (or what constitutes effort for this bunch of know nothing congress critters) into it. Pretty sure the previous house bills were like ololrepealobamacare and the Senate never even bothered, because it was all just posture and bluff
Their bluff was finally called and they came up short.
Posts
If McCain was doing Doocy's (Ducy?) will, then its reasonable to assume his appointee won't be in Flake's mold.
Some things I particularly love:
-The slow zoom in on McConnell as he stares into his personal abyss
And the replacement would have to be reelected the next time there's a general election, right? Arizona is not Nevada, but a newly appointed senator wouldn't have the cache to absorb a bad vote for that like a normal incumbent would
Just want to reiterate this: McConnell was on the verge of tears during that speech. I watched it live. Whatever happens now it will never be the same for him or the GOP. He used every trick he could muster and it wasn't enough. He looked tired of getting kicked in the teeth. He seemed ready to move on and I suspect that means there will be no serious effort in the Senate to repeal the ACA anytime soon.
"Can we stop praising three Republican Senators for literally just not being completely awful people?
like ok, I get it, but honestly they really just did the bare minimum last night.
And where's the single player plan at, Democrats?
So over our government..."
Like yeah, I get the first part but guess what that second part is the exact reason we're in this mess. GAH!
Arizona's governor was one of those pushing McCain to vote no and was doing it publicly.
Anybody he'd appoint to replace McCain is going to pretty much have to tattoo "No" on his forehead for this issue.
The big thing this whole clusterfuck attempt to kill people has cemented is that "# of people covered" is the most important metric now. Which is a huge political win for the Left and why a bunch of GOP governors are essentially caving on the issue.
For all the people out there penning his lionization today, there doesn't seem to be anyone really acknowledging that right up until sometime after Midnight last night he's been little more than a rubber stamp for whatever terrible things his party wanted to do.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
That's what McCain claims, but I can't imagine if AZ gets a kick back a new R senator selected by the governor won't enthusiastically sign on.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Eh, Arizona's governor's statement on the issue was wishy-washy as hell and open to interpretation. It could easily have been read as "We'll fix it in Conference".
I would bet the shift here is as much to do with the House playing chicken with the Senate as anything.
pleasepaypreacher.net
The rock bottom truth here is that the Republican party cannot govern on this issue because the connective tissue of the caucus isn't any sort of positive policy proscription.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The whole crazy series of events from lunch to the afternoon press conferences about how the repeal absolutely wasn't meant to be voted on by the House was kind of amazing.
If you were watching the right places, you could see United States Senators go from "wait, is that really a thing" to "and that motherfucker Ryan will absolutely do it, too" over the course of a couple of consecutive hallway interviews.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
The GOP does not give a shit about Healthcare in the end, so they have no strategy or desires for it.
"Stop Obamacare", "Repeal Obamacare" and "Free Market Healthcare" are all just knee-jerk reactions to the Left trying to solve the issue and not a coherent ideology on the subject.
Senator Murkowski: (202) 224-6665
Senator Collins: (202) 224-2523
Senator McCain: (202) 224-2235
They had room in their mailboxes when I called this morning. I urge you to call and share your thoughts with them too. They stepped up when we needed them. Let them know how you feel about it.
I was already quite happy to vote him out next year, but I want him to continue to feel the heat of watchful gazes at his terrible votes, even on things that ultimately fail.
The only thing they had was being anti-democrats, and even that couldn't get them over the hump on the issue with the most democratic baggage.
Nah, they are pretty unified on things like "cutting taxes".
Healthcare simply isn't one of those things.
More than a little shocked to wake up today, my fever broken and this "skinny repeal" defeated. A good kind of shocked, mind!
but the war goes on in terms of protecting healthcare and who knows what the Republicans will attempt next?
I just hope we can absolutely crucify most of the Republicans in the midterm elections with their votes.
I'm wondering when the truly awful tweets are going to appear. Trump will go after mccain for brain cancer, and Murkowski and collins for ... being women, I guess.
The symbolic attempts were made knowing full well A) Obama would veto them and
Now, they control all levers of government. Can make up whatever rules they want short of changing the Constitution. Can throw all decorum out the window.
And they still lost. And in a way that will make it much harder to bring the ACA back up for a vote.
This will absolutely come back up if McConnell thinks the math has changed. There's reason to be optimistic though. He was benefiting from a lot of inertia. It'll be harder to get all these Senators to vote for something they don't want to when there are other things going on instead.
Why? They probably started working out who they are going to run for his spot in the 2018 primary immediately after he got his diagnosis.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
If he retires the GOP can get an easy vote in the Senate. I doubt it'll be like The Thing they work for or whatever, but he'll get leaned on.
They had three proposals in the Senate. A "middle" one, a slightly more generous variaton with buyouts for key folks, and a clean repeal attempt for the conservatives. All three were pushed down by grassroots activism. After that, the parameters of popular opinion are clear. They can't really do any of the things they promised without really pissing people off, so as a party they have to find a way to slide out of the situation.
Not sure if McConnell saw this coming. He might have, it was probably a possibility on his mind, along with hoping that somehow this could be slid though. I believe Graham and the others who issued a statement to Paul Ryan almost certainly saw it when their statement came out. That request was something impossible, and they knew it.
This way, McCain gets to play to the cameras, everyone else gets to cast the vote they think is safest. And in the end, it's those "dastardly moderates" who killed their repeal attempt, and their base doesn't get any cold water thrown in their face.
Most of the previous ones where just song and dance because they knew Obama was going to veto them. Having Trump in the white house changed the equation.
This loss is important (but not world ending) because it as the Republicans failing to pass Legislation despite having all 3 bodies. They can try again, but unless they actually, you know, TRY this time instead of crafting bills in secret and rushing them out there at the last minute, there's no guarantee it will have any better chance of passing than the previous one did.
It's not over, but the Republicans had all the cards and failed. It's a blow to their ego and to their reputation.
They have full control of the government now. They could have passed this, but were unable to find a bill all Republicans could vote for.
Some of them want conflicting things. That's fine when it doesn't matter because Obama will veto anything you pass, it's another matter when suddenly it can actually become law and you are responsible for any damage it might do.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
We have a brief reprieve from the healthcare issue until we find out their next move (or whether they're going to let it go), but the way this has been approached was really startling.
If they move on to the next issue that's a fig leaf for tax cuts will they do the exact same thing? If they come right back to healthcare because they want to deliver on repealing Obamacare as a talking point for their base, it doesn't seem like they'll say "okay this time we'll do everything on the floor with open debate" given how close this came to working.
I suppose the worst part about all this is that Trump still gets to do his "See? I was right all along and everybody doubted me!" bullshit that just never fucking stops.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Also, none of them wanted any of the three options to go through! They keep holding out for some socially acceptable revision, but in reality Boehner seems to being proven right. before 2010 or not at all.
when you talk out both sides of your mouth and never believe anything you say, you can always be right no matter what happens
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/28/16055132/murkowski-collins-mccain
Murkowski and Collins were already receiving threats from other Congressmen. I'd expect it to increase.
(Article is just a summation. I know in the other thread these were already reported.)
not a good time to be playing around with bills that have approval ratings of 17%.
Their bluff was finally called and they came up short.