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Marvel! Makes kids comic with Arms Company, forgets Iron Man's origin story.

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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Furu wrote: »
    Gwenpool isn't an alternate related Gwen Stacy so this joke is inherently flawed

    Fine! I amend the joke to "after Spider-Gwen and Gwenpool, what other characters can be given a Gwen treatment?"

    Didn't Gwenpool come from a bunch of variant covers about that same idea?

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
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    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    who is gwenpool? is she not Gwen Stacey of some variety

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    who is gwenpool? is she not Gwen Stacey of some variety

    Gwen Poole is a lady who was an avid comics fan who got sucked into the comicbok dimension and is completely 100% aware of that fact and uses her knowledge of tropes and story structure to her advantage.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    who is gwenpool? is she not Gwen Stacey of some variety
    No, she's Gwen Poole from, ostensibly, our Earth.

    Her whole thing is that she knows the MU is utterly fictional so she starts out treating it like a playground for her, as a protagonist, but quickly learns that shit don't fly without some collateral damage

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    JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Furu wrote: »
    Gwenpool isn't an alternate related Gwen Stacy so this joke is inherently flawed

    Fine! I amend the joke to "after Spider-Gwen and Gwenpool, what other characters can be given a Gwen treatment?"

    Didn't Gwenpool come from a bunch of variant covers about that same idea?

    Yes, but
    who is gwenpool? is she not Gwen Stacey of some variety

    When they went to actually give that cover its own series, they decided she was actually a girl named Gwen Poole

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Man

    I cannot believe they announced a Hawkeye/Winter Soldier team-up book and my reaction is "meh". I love those guys!

    That's how hard Secret Empire and the general trends toward middling creative teams have tainted the well for me

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Man

    I cannot believe they announced a Hawkeye/Winter Soldier team-up book and my reaction is "meh". I love those guys!

    That's how hard Secret Empire and the general trends toward middling creative teams have tainted the well for me

    I mean, the central premise basically invalidayes one of the only things that actually happened in SE

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Man

    I cannot believe they announced a Hawkeye/Winter Soldier team-up book and my reaction is "meh". I love those guys!

    That's how hard Secret Empire and the general trends toward middling creative teams have tainted the well for me

    I mean, the central premise basically invalidayes one of the only things that actually happened in SE
    It's still Secret Empire fall-out and is spinning directly out of it

    like, it isn't a retcon undoing SE, it is a plot point Nick Spencer himself introduced in Omega

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    From reading that synopsis Nick Spencer definitely thinks he is edgy as fuck and that Nazi Captain America is way more hard hitting and real than regular old grandpa Cap

    If one was being uncharitable they might argue that Nick Spencer is some sort of Nazi apologist fuckwit but I think it's more likely he's just a moron

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Man

    I cannot believe they announced a Hawkeye/Winter Soldier team-up book and my reaction is "meh". I love those guys!

    That's how hard Secret Empire and the general trends toward middling creative teams have tainted the well for me

    I mean, the central premise basically invalidayes one of the only things that actually happened in SE
    It's still Secret Empire fall-out and is spinning directly out of it

    like, it isn't a retcon undoing SE, it is a plot point Nick Spencer himself introduced in Omega
    i didn't realize that Widow had actually been resurrected. In 12, it shows Vegas with Rick Jones and Widow, so I thought it was showing what Kobik was keeping dead/destroyed

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    never dienever die Registered User regular
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    never die wrote: »

    Doesn't Adam X literally have the power to make people's blood boil? I figured Gillen was just making a goofy joke, as he is wont to do.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Man

    I cannot believe they announced a Hawkeye/Winter Soldier team-up book and my reaction is "meh". I love those guys!

    That's how hard Secret Empire and the general trends toward middling creative teams have tainted the well for me

    I mean, the central premise basically invalidayes one of the only things that actually happened in SE
    It's still Secret Empire fall-out and is spinning directly out of it

    like, it isn't a retcon undoing SE, it is a plot point Nick Spencer himself introduced in Omega
    i didn't realize that Widow had actually been resurrected. In 12, it shows Vegas with Rick Jones and Widow, so I thought it was showing what Kobik was keeping dead/destroyed
    Her resurrection/death fakeout was in Omega. Bucky goes to investigate a third world dictator who was riding Hydra's coattails and the dude gets assassinated and Buck knows it is Natasha who did it

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Oh yeah,
    Bucky and Widow was another relationship they fucked up.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Marvel fuck up all good relationships because, I dunno

    They're a bit weird about all that stuff basically

    Something almost projecting-y about it

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    "Emma and Scott would have eventually have failed anyway, as is inevitable with all relationships"

    Alright mate, whatever you say

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    It doesn't help that Marvel clearly has problems with women.

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    Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
    acpRlGW.jpg
    Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
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    never dienever die Registered User regular
    never die wrote: »

    Doesn't Adam X literally have the power to make people's blood boil? I figured Gillen was just making a goofy joke, as he is wont to do.

    ...Fuck. I'm an idiot.

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    From reading that synopsis Nick Spencer definitely thinks he is edgy as fuck and that Nazi Captain America is way more hard hitting and real than regular old grandpa Cap

    If one was being uncharitable they might argue that Nick Spencer is some sort of Nazi apologist fuckwit but I think it's more likely he's just a moron

    We're rapidly reaching a point where Nazi apologist and person-to-ignorant-and-stubborn-to-realize-they're-promoting-nazis are equally bad.

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

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    BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    When asked what a Juggernaut is:



    He just can't help himself.

    BionicPenguin on
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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    From reading that synopsis Nick Spencer definitely thinks he is edgy as fuck and that Nazi Captain America is way more hard hitting and real than regular old grandpa Cap

    If one was being uncharitable they might argue that Nick Spencer is some sort of Nazi apologist fuckwit but I think it's more likely he's just a moron

    We're rapidly reaching a point where Nazi apologist and person-to-ignorant-and-stubborn-to-realize-they're-promoting-nazis are equally bad.

    I mean, I don't disagree that Spencer fumbled the ball really badly here. But the issue itself was "saying" that it was about how you have to stand up to them. Even if it did a terrible job of making that line feel like it was actually earned

    steam_sig.png
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    From reading that synopsis Nick Spencer definitely thinks he is edgy as fuck and that Nazi Captain America is way more hard hitting and real than regular old grandpa Cap

    If one was being uncharitable they might argue that Nick Spencer is some sort of Nazi apologist fuckwit but I think it's more likely he's just a moron

    We're rapidly reaching a point where Nazi apologist and person-to-ignorant-and-stubborn-to-realize-they're-promoting-nazis are equally bad.

    I mean, I don't disagree that Spencer fumbled the ball really badly here. But the issue itself was "saying" that it was about how you have to stand up to them. Even if it did a terrible job of making that line feel like it was actually earned
    Ending a story about standing up to Nazis by showing
    that the head Nazi being captured is ultimately pointless as he has followers in his prison and will soon be broken out,
    to his glee
    is a real fuckin' dogshit way of showing that

    like, the message that "hey this ain't a 'you beat them once, they're done' type deal" is sound, but, much like Secret Empire as a whole, he did it so poorly that it honestly feels like a triumph for the Nazis in the story rather than a hard fought victory for the heroes

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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    I think it would have worked so much better if we had actually seen any of the hard-fought victories for the hero but the weird narrative presentation of the series robbed it of any weight.

    Stuff just kind of happens while narrative boxes try to provide context instead of dialogue. There's no moments, just a montage with a omniscient voice over.

    It wanted to be Final Crisis without putting in the work.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Furu wrote: »
    I think it would have worked so much better if we had actually seen any of the hard-fought victories for the hero but the weird narrative presentation of the series robbed it of any weight.

    Stuff just kind of happens while narrative boxes try to provide context instead of dialogue. There's no moments, just a montage with a omniscient voice over.

    It wanted to be Final Crisis without putting in the work.

    I mean, some parts of Final Crisis were a mess, but Morrison is a much better writer, so they were a coherent mess.

    Also, Secret Empire was absolutely not the type of story for trying to use that kind of narrative.

    Also also, for a story about standing up to Nazis, there was very little standing up to Nazis.

    Edit: Basically, CW2 soured me on Marvel, SE ensured I'd be away for at least years.

    Fencingsax on
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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    I'm not saying Final Crisis was perfect but I am one of the people who believe that story's busted-ass pacing, whether or not it works for an individual reader, is absolutely intentional

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2017
    Furu wrote: »
    I'm not saying Final Crisis was perfect but I am one of the people who believe that story's busted-ass pacing, whether or not it works for an individual reader, is absolutely intentional

    I think some parts being in other books was not something he necessarily wanted, but overall sure.

    Fencingsax on
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    That is a really poor way to do that but
    Its also fucking bizarre. Like I get that we all agree that this was an attempt to be political that Spencer immediately backed away from when people balked but how the hell did he not change this fucking ending?

    "In this modern world our country has become so divided and sour that we both encompass liberty and also fascism in equal contradictory measures." that apparently the point of this story apparently.

    BUT

    ITS

    STILL

    NOT

    POLITICAL?

    RIGHT, SPENCER?

    Seriously what is this dude even doing.

    Quire.jpg
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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    From reading that synopsis Nick Spencer definitely thinks he is edgy as fuck and that Nazi Captain America is way more hard hitting and real than regular old grandpa Cap

    If one was being uncharitable they might argue that Nick Spencer is some sort of Nazi apologist fuckwit but I think it's more likely he's just a moron

    We're rapidly reaching a point where Nazi apologist and person-to-ignorant-and-stubborn-to-realize-they're-promoting-nazis are equally bad.

    I mean, I don't disagree that Spencer fumbled the ball really badly here. But the issue itself was "saying" that it was about how you have to stand up to them. Even if it did a terrible job of making that line feel like it was actually earned
    Ending a story about standing up to Nazis by showing
    that the head Nazi being captured is ultimately pointless as he has followers in his prison and will soon be broken out,
    to his glee
    is a real fuckin' dogshit way of showing that

    like, the message that "hey this ain't a 'you beat them once, they're done' type deal" is sound, but, much like Secret Empire as a whole, he did it so poorly that it honestly feels like a triumph for the Nazis in the story rather than a hard fought victory for the heroes
    Also, from the sounds of it, ending with the idea that there's more people who are Nazis than there are not-Nazis. Which doesn't seem correct, uplifting, or like any kind of good grasp on how movements work. It sounds more like a reason to take the nearest dimensional portal and blow up everything behind you.

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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Furu wrote: »
    hey

    you all should be reading gwenpool

    Oh I am. It's my first thing I read on the weeks it comes out.

    I f'ing love Gwenpool. It's such a fun but also moving comic.

    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
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    vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    This double post brought to you by 'you should be reading Gwenpool'.

    vagrant_winds on
    // Steam: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    That is a really poor way to do that but
    Its also fucking bizarre. Like I get that we all agree that this was an attempt to be political that Spencer immediately backed away from when people balked but how the hell did he not change this fucking ending?

    "In this modern world our country has become so divided and sour that we both encompass liberty and also fascism in equal contradictory measures." that apparently the point of this story apparently.

    BUT

    ITS

    STILL

    NOT

    POLITICAL?

    RIGHT, SPENCER?

    Seriously what is this dude even doing.

    It's probably the ending he wrote in response to the critical backlash, which makes it worse.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 2017
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    From reading that synopsis Nick Spencer definitely thinks he is edgy as fuck and that Nazi Captain America is way more hard hitting and real than regular old grandpa Cap

    If one was being uncharitable they might argue that Nick Spencer is some sort of Nazi apologist fuckwit but I think it's more likely he's just a moron

    We're rapidly reaching a point where Nazi apologist and person-to-ignorant-and-stubborn-to-realize-they're-promoting-nazis are equally bad.

    I mean, I don't disagree that Spencer fumbled the ball really badly here. But the issue itself was "saying" that it was about how you have to stand up to them. Even if it did a terrible job of making that line feel like it was actually earned
    Ending a story about standing up to Nazis by showing
    that the head Nazi being captured is ultimately pointless as he has followers in his prison and will soon be broken out,
    to his glee
    is a real fuckin' dogshit way of showing that

    like, the message that "hey this ain't a 'you beat them once, they're done' type deal" is sound, but, much like Secret Empire as a whole, he did it so poorly that it honestly feels like a triumph for the Nazis in the story rather than a hard fought victory for the heroes
    Also, from the sounds of it, ending with the idea that there's more people who are Nazis than there are not-Nazis. Which doesn't seem correct, uplifting, or like any kind of good grasp on how movements work. It sounds more like a reason to take the nearest dimensional portal and blow up everything behind you.

    It's a very hard ending to fuck up and it's amazing and how hard he fucked up the landing.
    It should instead have Nazi cap says that it doesn't matter how many normal people there are, because the few can hold fear and the fear will keep most in line, and the rest will just ignore it and stay in line.

    Then Real cap says that as long as there are people who will fight, then the good guys will never give in. And that if the truth is exposed, then the goodness of humanity will come out and people won't ignore what's in front of them.

    And then none of this actually happens because how did a comic about Nazi Captain America even get started in the first place

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    From reading that synopsis Nick Spencer definitely thinks he is edgy as fuck and that Nazi Captain America is way more hard hitting and real than regular old grandpa Cap

    If one was being uncharitable they might argue that Nick Spencer is some sort of Nazi apologist fuckwit but I think it's more likely he's just a moron

    We're rapidly reaching a point where Nazi apologist and person-to-ignorant-and-stubborn-to-realize-they're-promoting-nazis are equally bad.

    I mean, I don't disagree that Spencer fumbled the ball really badly here. But the issue itself was "saying" that it was about how you have to stand up to them. Even if it did a terrible job of making that line feel like it was actually earned
    Ending a story about standing up to Nazis by showing
    that the head Nazi being captured is ultimately pointless as he has followers in his prison and will soon be broken out,
    to his glee
    is a real fuckin' dogshit way of showing that

    like, the message that "hey this ain't a 'you beat them once, they're done' type deal" is sound, but, much like Secret Empire as a whole, he did it so poorly that it honestly feels like a triumph for the Nazis in the story rather than a hard fought victory for the heroes
    Also, from the sounds of it, ending with the idea that there's more people who are Nazis than there are not-Nazis. Which doesn't seem correct, uplifting, or like any kind of good grasp on how movements work. It sounds more like a reason to take the nearest dimensional portal and blow up everything behind you.
    the entire population of the United States went Nazi with essentially the flip of a coin. Jokes about how awful the populace of Marvel is aside, what the fuck message are you trying to send?

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    FuruFuru Registered User regular
    Furu wrote: »
    hey

    you all should be reading gwenpool

    Oh I am. It's my first thing I read on the weeks it comes out.

    I f'ing love Gwenpool. It's such a fun but also moving comic.

    The fact that it's a comedy book with more going on for it than just jokes is probably one of the main reasons I love it while, say, squirrel girl falls flat for me

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Squirrel Girl isn't just a comedy book either; it's a book about unlikely people being awesome.

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    Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Not a doctor Tree townRegistered User regular
    Maybe instead Secret Empire ends with showing new Hydra cells forming in response to Hydra Cap. We can call them Neo-Hydra.

    Also, who approved letting there be two Steves? Good Steve shouldn't get to use the Shaggy defense. And you just know that at some point in the future someone is going to write a story where Hydra Steve impersonates Good Steve.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Maybe instead Secret Empire ends with showing new Hydra cells forming in response to Hydra Cap. We can call them Neo-Hydra.

    Also, who approved letting there be two Steves? Good Steve shouldn't get to use the Shaggy defense. And you just know that at some point in the future someone is going to write a story where Hydra Steve impersonates Good Steve.

    While Good Steve impersonates nazi-Steve at the same time, of course.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I'm willing to call spence a nazi collaborator, he's the guy who'd sell out his neighbours

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    If there's one thing we've learned from all this it's that Nick Spencer's alar is very strong.

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

This discussion has been closed.