Russia/Trump investigation thread; Down the never ending rabbit hole

So It Goes

This thread is for talking about:

The election interference and collusion investigation, both in the FBI and congress.
The firing of James Comey, and continuing fallout of it.
The search for a new FBI director.
The special counsel, Robert Mueller and his investigation, et all.
Any further claims about wiretapping of Donald Trump.

Things we will not be talking about:

Impeachment, until further notice. So far this includes a lot of speculation with the investigation itself remaining unresolved, so we're leaving it off the table until a notable event happens.
The media.

Some links re: the latest news (from a while back, I am too lazy to update - SIG)

• Trump Team Met With Lawyer Linked to Kremlin During Campaign
• Trump’s Son Met With Russian Lawyer After Being Promised Damaging Information on Clinton
• Former Soviet Counterintelligence Officer at Meeting With Donald Trump Jr. and Russian Lawyer
• Donald Trump Jr. Is an Idiot of Towering Proportions

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/opinion/donald-trump-jr-emails-russia.html -- Sums up the whole dealio and what it might mean.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/trump-russia-email-clinton.html -- The smoking gun. Donald Trump Jr. LOVES IT.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/14/politics/donald-trump-jr-meeting/index.html -- CNN covering a summary of the debacle so far.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/james-lankford-senate-intel-committee-knew-kushner-meeting TPM article linking Kushner to the meeting.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/kushner-security-clearance-amendment-russia-lawyer-meeting-bombshell Talk about Kushner's SF86

https://apnews.com/dceed1008d8f45afb314aca65797762a
AP story with Akhmetshin's account of the meeting, and a note that Goldstone is now saying he was in the meeting. (So up to 3 on the Russia side + translator of indeterminate origin)


Official prevention of cross contamination post.

Trump's foreign trip and other foreign policy issues: Foreign Policy Thread
Trump admin/family corruption and grift not related to Russia: Corruption/Grift/Ethics Violations in the Trump Administration
General Middle East goings on: The Middle East Thread
Trump immigration policy, Muslim ban and beyond: Immigration Policy Thread

Reminder: Watergate comparison/discussion is on topic here, but don't get too into the weeds on it.

So It Goes

Desktop Hippie wrote: »

From a "social and breaking news" journalist at CNN.

https://twitter.com/stevekopack/status/905600852819365890

I saw in this thread that we were discussing the Facebook ads but did we know Facebook turned the data over to Mueller?

Jragghen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/desideriodc/status/905880044484136961

Andrew Desidero is a reporter for The Daily Beast covering Congress & national security

Spaffy

Kind of a weird, passive aggressive memo to send. Can't he just bring charges if he thinks Donny JR lied?

moniker

They needed Chris Hansen to come in as a Special Senate Committee Aide since Junior's testimony seemed to consist of "Yes, I went to that meeting to commit treason, but they didn't have any treasonous info to sell me so it doesn't count."

Quid

I've been out of the loop a couple months. Just to be clear, this has gone from there was no meetings with ever with Russians to influence the election to there was at least one meeting with Russians to influence the election but "nothing" came of it, correct?

Kasyn

Quid wrote: »

I've been out of the loop a couple months. Just to be clear, this has gone from there was no meetings with ever with Russians to influence the election to there was at least one meeting with Russians to influence the election but "nothing" came of it, correct?

One confirmed meeting, yes, plus the ever-expanding amount of questionable ties, speculation, and bad looks.

Variable

Quid wrote: »

I've been out of the loop a couple months. Just to be clear, this has gone from there was no meetings with ever with Russians to influence the election to there was at least one meeting with Russians to influence the election but "nothing" came of it, correct?

yes, with at least one story about it being a meeting about adoption in between

No-Quarter

Quid wrote: »

I've been out of the loop a couple months. Just to be clear, this has gone from there was no meetings with ever with Russians to influence the election to there was at least one meeting with Russians to influence the election but "nothing" came of it, correct?

There's also the issue of Trump apparently directly tailoring the response to the reveal.

Henroid

Quid wrote: »

I've been out of the loop a couple months. Just to be clear, this has gone from there was no meetings with ever with Russians to influence the election to there was at least one meeting with Russians to influence the election but "nothing" came of it, correct?

Also Mueller's team is working with the criminal investigation branch of the IRS.

OptimusZed

Also a bunch of for-now circumstantial connections between people on the campaign and Russians. For a while it was about Russian Oligarchs and financiers, but it's turned a bit to be about Russian cyber espionage experts.

Also also the Steele Dossier keeps looking more and more legit.

chrisnl

Yeah Don Jr. really isn't very bright, it seems. Admitting to going to the meeting to collude with a foreign government is bad, but then saying it was OK because nothing came of it is just not even a coherent defense. It would be like getting caught in a sting operation where you attempted to blow up a mosque, but since the bomb was a fake then no harm, no foul right?

Mild Confusion

chrisnl wrote: »

Yeah Don Jr. really isn't very bright, it seems. Admitting to going to the meeting to collude with a foreign government is bad, but then saying it was OK because nothing came of it is just not even a coherent defense. It would be like getting caught in a sting operation where you attempted to blow up a mosque, but since the bomb was a fake then no harm, no foul right?

Don Jr's attempt to say it's totes cool if the meeting to intentionally break the law is the rich person equivalent of, "You totally have to tell me if you are a cop."

Commander Zoom

"Yes, I tried to hire a prostitute, but she turned out to be a cop and we never even had sex."

shryke

This is Don Jr:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnttBhGVytc

Phoenix-D

Mild Confusion wrote: »

chrisnl wrote: »

Yeah Don Jr. really isn't very bright, it seems. Admitting to going to the meeting to collude with a foreign government is bad, but then saying it was OK because nothing came of it is just not even a coherent defense. It would be like getting caught in a sting operation where you attempted to blow up a mosque, but since the bomb was a fake then no harm, no foul right?

Don Jr's attempt to say it's totes cool if the meeting to intentionally break the law is the rich person equivalent of, "You totally have to tell me if you are a cop."

If he's just looking for "dirt" and not hacked data (it was hacked data) would it be illegal?

Hevach

Phoenix-D wrote: »

Mild Confusion wrote: »

chrisnl wrote: »

Yeah Don Jr. really isn't very bright, it seems. Admitting to going to the meeting to collude with a foreign government is bad, but then saying it was OK because nothing came of it is just not even a coherent defense. It would be like getting caught in a sting operation where you attempted to blow up a mosque, but since the bomb was a fake then no harm, no foul right?

Don Jr's attempt to say it's totes cool if the meeting to intentionally break the law is the rich person equivalent of, "You totally have to tell me if you are a cop."

If he's just looking for "dirt" and not hacked data (it was hacked data) would it be illegal?

It gets into a weird area that we argued about in past threads a lot, but... it comes down to whether oppo research would qualify as "thing of value" under foreign donation rules. So probably to definitely, but it does mean some establishing case law and it's always weird which way that can go.

Tomanta

Phoenix-D wrote: »

Mild Confusion wrote: »

chrisnl wrote: »

Yeah Don Jr. really isn't very bright, it seems. Admitting to going to the meeting to collude with a foreign government is bad, but then saying it was OK because nothing came of it is just not even a coherent defense. It would be like getting caught in a sting operation where you attempted to blow up a mosque, but since the bomb was a fake then no harm, no foul right?

Don Jr's attempt to say it's totes cool if the meeting to intentionally break the law is the rich person equivalent of, "You totally have to tell me if you are a cop."

If he's just looking for "dirt" and not hacked data (it was hacked data) would it be illegal?

Yes. Information on an opponent has value and it is illegal for a campaign to receive anything of value from a foreign party.

TubularLuggage

I think Don Jr legitimately doesn't understand that there could be worse consequences for him here than just bad PR.

ElJeffe

There has never been any consequence for anything anyone in that family has done besides bad PR.

It is to our advantage that the Trump family cannot fathom that there might be actual criminal charges or jail time for this shit. I think part of the reason they seem to give no fucks is that they don't believe rules apply to them. (The rest is just that they are, to a man, really fucking dumb.)

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Kasyn

ElJeffe wrote: »

There has never been any consequence for anything anyone in that family has done besides bad PR.

It is to our advantage that the Trump family cannot fathom that there might be actual criminal charges or jail time for this shit. I think part of the reason they seem to give no fucks is that they don't believe rules apply to them. (The rest is just that they are, to a man, really fucking dumb.)

To be fair, I actually cannot imagine that being an outcome for anyone in their family. Like it's literally unfathomable for me, too.

[Expletive deleted]

Orca wrote: »

I'm increasingly convinced they're ignorant of even the concept of rules or norms.

I wouldn't sit down for a friendly game of, say, Parcheesi, with any of them, that's for sure.

Spoit

ElJeffe wrote: »

There has never been any consequence for anything anyone in that family has done besides bad PR.

It is to our advantage that the Trump family cannot fathom that there might be actual criminal charges or jail time for this shit. I think part of the reason they seem to give no fucks is that they don't believe rules apply to them. (The rest is just that they are, to a man, really fucking dumb.)

To be fair, there rarely is much consequences for your actions, when you're that rich. Especially in NY Real Estate

Tomanta

[Expletive deleted] wrote: »

Orca wrote: »

I'm increasingly convinced they're ignorant of even the concept of rules or norms.

I wouldn't sit down for a friendly game of, say, Parcheesi, with any of them, that's for sure.

God, can you imagine their house rules for Monopoly? "Ignore anything that sends you to jail. If you mortgage a property, it unmortgages on your next turn. Dad always starts with hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place. The Free Parking rule."

Jam Warrior

Tomanta wrote: »

[Expletive deleted] wrote: »

Orca wrote: »

I'm increasingly convinced they're ignorant of even the concept of rules or norms.

I wouldn't sit down for a friendly game of, say, Parcheesi, with any of them, that's for sure.

God, can you imagine their house rules for Monopoly? "Ignore anything that sends you to jail. If you mortgage a property, it unmortgages on your next turn. Dad always starts with hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place. The Free Parking rule."

Now the card may say I owe you $1000, but on the other hand I could kick over the table and walk away from the game at any moment so really me giving you $50 is a steal. Your choice...

Elvenshae

[Expletive deleted] wrote: »

Orca wrote: »

I'm increasingly convinced they're ignorant of even the concept of rules or norms.

I wouldn't sit down for a friendly game of, say, Parcheesi, with any of them, that's for sure.

A game of Secret Hitler could be fun, though ...

King Riptor

Elvenshae wrote: »

[Expletive deleted] wrote: »

Orca wrote: »

I'm increasingly convinced they're ignorant of even the concept of rules or norms.

I wouldn't sit down for a friendly game of, say, Parcheesi, with any of them, that's for sure.

A game of Secret Hitler could be fun, though ...

Is it Dad?

You win son!

Undead Scottsman

Mueller is tightening the rope on the White House.

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has alerted the White House that his team will likely seek to interview six top current and former advisers to President Trump who were witnesses to several episodes relevant to the investigation of Russia’s meddling in the 2016 election, according to people familiar with the request.

Mueller’s interest in the aides, including trusted adviser Hope Hicks, ex-press secretary Sean Spicer and former chief of staff Reince Priebus, reflects how the probe that has dogged Trump’s presidency is starting to penetrate a closer circle of aides around the president.

Each of the six advisers was privy to important internal discussions that have drawn the interest of Mueller’s investigators, including his decision in May to fire FBI Director James B. Comey and the White House’s initial inaction following warnings that then-national security adviser Michael Flynn had withheld information from the public about his private discussions in December with Russia’s ambassador to the United States, according to people familiar with the probe.

The advisers are also connected to a series of internal documents that Mueller’s investigators have asked the White House to produce, according to people familiar with the special counsel’s inquiry.

Roughly four weeks ago, the special counsel’s team provided the White House with the names of the first group of current and former Trump advisers and aides that investigators expect to question.

In addition to Priebus, Spicer and Hicks, Mueller has notified the White House he will likely seek to question White House counsel Don McGahn, and one of his deputies, James Burnham. Mueller’s office has also told the White House that investigators may want to interview Josh Raffel, a White House spokesman who works closely with Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner.

White House officials are expecting that Mueller will seek additional interviews, possibly with family members, including Kushner, who is a West Wing senior adviser, according to the people familiar with Mueller’s inquiry.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/spicer-priebus-hicks-among-six-current-and-former-trump-aides-mueller-has-expressed-interest-in-interviewing-for-russia-probe/2017/09/08/3b32779e-949a-11e7-aace-04b862b2b3f3_story.html?pushid=59b2efe45ea55a1d0000001e&tid=notifi_push_breaking-news&utm_term=.8af7b54bc719

Gaddez

Tomanta wrote: »

[Expletive deleted] wrote: »

Orca wrote: »

I'm increasingly convinced they're ignorant of even the concept of rules or norms.

I wouldn't sit down for a friendly game of, say, Parcheesi, with any of them, that's for sure.

God, can you imagine their house rules for Monopoly? "Ignore anything that sends you to jail. If you mortgage a property, it unmortgages on your next turn. Dad always starts with hotels on Boardwalk and Park Place. The Free Parking rule."

"The game doesn't end when you bankrupt, you just get another 5000 dollars."

Alternately:

Marathon

That is the dumbest tag line I have ever seen.

Gaddez

Marathon wrote: »

That is the dumbest tag line I have ever seen.

It says a lot about the game that it has an oxymoron right there on the cover. Sadly not much about russia though so...

Artereis

I'm kind of loving the embossed signature on that book.

Elvenshae

Gaddez wrote: »

Marathon wrote: »

That is the dumbest tag line I have ever seen.

It says a lot about the game that it has an oxymoron right there on the cover. Sadly not much about russia though so...

There's a regular moron right there on the cover, too!

So It Goes

Back on topic please.

Label

So I saw this floating around the other day, wondering if anyone has an opinion on it?

https://www.justsecurity.org/44697/steele-dossier-knowing/
A former CIA guy takes some time and looks at the Steele Report to evaluate it with our present public knowledge. First placing in into context as raw intelligence

I spent almost thirty years producing what CIA calls “raw reporting” from human agents. At heart, this is what Orbis did. They were not producing finished analysis, but were passing on to a client distilled reporting that they had obtained in response to specific questions. The difference is crucial, for it is the one that American journalists routinely fail to understand. When disseminating a raw intelligence report, an intelligence agency is not vouching for the accuracy of the information provided by the report’s sources and/or subsources. Rather it is claiming that it has made strenuous efforts to validate that it is reporting accurately what the sources/subsources claim has happened. The onus for sorting out the veracity and for putting the reporting in context against other reporting – which may confirm or deny the new report – rests with the intelligence community’s professional analytic cadre. In the case of the dossier, Orbis was not saying that everything that it reported was accurate, but that it had made a good-faith effort to pass along faithfully what its identified insiders said was accurate. This is routine in the intelligence business. And this form of reporting is often a critical product in putting together more final intelligence assessments.

In this sense, the so-called Steele dossier is not a dossier at all. A dossier suggests a summary or case history. Mr. Steele’s product is not a report delivered with a bow at the end of an investigation. Instead, it is a series of contemporaneous raw reports that do not have the benefit of hindsight. Among the unnamed sources are “a senior Russian foreign ministry official,” “a former top-level intelligence officer still active inside the Kremlin,” and “a close associate of Republican U.S. presidential candidate Donald Trump.” Thus, the reports are not an attempt to connect the dots, but instead an effort to uncover new and potentially relevant dots in the first place.

After going over things, he concludes with this.

So, more than a year after the production of the original raw reports, where do we stand?

I think it is fair to say that the report is not “garbage” as several commentators claimed. The Orbis sources certainly got some things right – details that they could not have known prior. Steele and his company appear serious and credible. Of course, the failure of the Trump team to report details that later leaked out and fit the narrative may make the Steele allegations appear more prescient than they otherwise might. At the same time, the hesitancy to be honest about contacts with Russia is consistent with allegations of a conspiracy.

All that said, one large portion of the dossier is crystal clear, certain, consistent and corroborated. Russia’s goal all along has been to do damage to America and our leadership role in the world. Also, the methods described in the report fit the Russians to a tee. If the remainder of the report is largely true, Russia has a powerful weapon to help achieve its goal. Even if it is largely false, the Kremlin still benefits from the confusion, uncertainty and political churn created by the resulting fallout. In any regard, the Administration could help cauterize the damage by being honest, transparent and assisting those looking into the matter. Sadly, the President has done the opposite, ensuring a Russian win no matter what. In any event, I would suspect the Russians will look to muddy the waters and spread false and misleading information to confuse investigators and public officials.

As things stand, both investigators and voters will have to examine the information in their possession and make sense of it as best they can. Professional investigators can marry the report with human and signals intelligence, they can look at call records, travel records, interview people mentioned in the report, solicit assistance from friendly foreign police and intelligence services, subpoena records and tie it to subsequent events that can shed light on the various details. We, on the other hand, will have to do our best to validate the information at hand. Looking at new information through the framework outlined in the Steele document is not a bad place to start.

ArcTangent

It turns out that Don Jr "couldn't remember" basically anything during his testimony. Shock and surprise.

Trump’s eldest son repeatedly said that he could not recall details about the Trump administration’s involvement in the public response to the meeting, or the degree to which his father was involved, according to both publications. In response to committee staffers’ questions, Trump Jr. specifically denied taking any of the Russian participants to visit with his father at Trump Tower, where the sit-down was held, or telling his father about the meeting afterwards, according to CNN.

This stated lack of engagement with the White House breaks sharply with previous reporting on the harried efforts to get ahead of stories about the meeting. The New York Times reported in July that senior White House aides, Trump’s personal legal team, Trump Jr. himself, and lawyers for Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner, who also attended the meeting, all coordinated the initial response while the President was flying back from the G20 summit in Berlin. Trump himself signed off on a misleading statement that claimed the meeting focused mostly on the adoption of Russian children, according to the Times.

---

Another significant memory lapse involved the three phone calls that Trump Jr. had prior to the meeting with Emin Agalarov, a Russian pop star acquainted with the family. Emails between Trump Jr. and Rob Goldstone, a British publicist who said he brokered the meeting on the Agalarovs’ behalf, mentioned arranging calls between the two men, while Trump Jr. acknowledged in his prepared statement that his phone records documented those three conversations.

But Trump Jr. told the committee he could not recall what they spoke about, according to the Post, and a lawyer for Agalarov told the newspaper that he had “absolutely no memory” of the conversations either. Agalarov’s phone records also documented the three calls.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/what-senate-panel-learned-trump-jr-testimony

Dodging questions and claiming mass amnesia. Uh huh.

silence1186

How terrible. Don Jr. must have the same memory loss problems that plagued Alberto Gonzalez, Bush II's AG. It's a shame he's showing symptoms so young.

Dedwrekka

ArcTangent wrote: »

It turns out that Don Jr "couldn't remember" basically anything during his testimony. Shock and surprise.

Trump’s eldest son repeatedly said that he could not recall details about the Trump administration’s involvement in the public response to the meeting, or the degree to which his father was involved, according to both publications. In response to committee staffers’ questions, Trump Jr. specifically denied taking any of the Russian participants to visit with his father at Trump Tower, where the sit-down was held, or telling his father about the meeting afterwards, according to CNN.

This stated lack of engagement with the White House breaks sharply with previous reporting on the harried efforts to get ahead of stories about the meeting. The New York Times reported in July that senior White House aides, Trump’s personal legal team, Trump Jr. himself, and lawyers for Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner, who also attended the meeting, all coordinated the initial response while the President was flying back from the G20 summit in Berlin. Trump himself signed off on a misleading statement that claimed the meeting focused mostly on the adoption of Russian children, according to the Times.

---

Another significant memory lapse involved the three phone calls that Trump Jr. had prior to the meeting with Emin Agalarov, a Russian pop star acquainted with the family. Emails between Trump Jr. and Rob Goldstone, a British publicist who said he brokered the meeting on the Agalarovs’ behalf, mentioned arranging calls between the two men, while Trump Jr. acknowledged in his prepared statement that his phone records documented those three conversations.

But Trump Jr. told the committee he could not recall what they spoke about, according to the Post, and a lawyer for Agalarov told the newspaper that he had “absolutely no memory” of the conversations either. Agalarov’s phone records also documented the three calls.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/what-senate-panel-learned-trump-jr-testimony

Dodging questions and claiming mass amnesia. Uh huh.

Chicago Amnesia - The term used to describe witnesses and principal suspects being unable to recall any details relating to crimes, dates, or the function of organized crime.

Dark_Side

Dedwrekka wrote: »

ArcTangent wrote: »

It turns out that Don Jr "couldn't remember" basically anything during his testimony. Shock and surprise.

Trump’s eldest son repeatedly said that he could not recall details about the Trump administration’s involvement in the public response to the meeting, or the degree to which his father was involved, according to both publications. In response to committee staffers’ questions, Trump Jr. specifically denied taking any of the Russian participants to visit with his father at Trump Tower, where the sit-down was held, or telling his father about the meeting afterwards, according to CNN.

This stated lack of engagement with the White House breaks sharply with previous reporting on the harried efforts to get ahead of stories about the meeting. The New York Times reported in July that senior White House aides, Trump’s personal legal team, Trump Jr. himself, and lawyers for Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner, who also attended the meeting, all coordinated the initial response while the President was flying back from the G20 summit in Berlin. Trump himself signed off on a misleading statement that claimed the meeting focused mostly on the adoption of Russian children, according to the Times.

---

Another significant memory lapse involved the three phone calls that Trump Jr. had prior to the meeting with Emin Agalarov, a Russian pop star acquainted with the family. Emails between Trump Jr. and Rob Goldstone, a British publicist who said he brokered the meeting on the Agalarovs’ behalf, mentioned arranging calls between the two men, while Trump Jr. acknowledged in his prepared statement that his phone records documented those three conversations.

But Trump Jr. told the committee he could not recall what they spoke about, according to the Post, and a lawyer for Agalarov told the newspaper that he had “absolutely no memory” of the conversations either. Agalarov’s phone records also documented the three calls.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/what-senate-panel-learned-trump-jr-testimony

Dodging questions and claiming mass amnesia. Uh huh.

Chicago Amnesia - The term used to describe witnesses and principal suspects being unable to recall any details relating to crimes, dates, or the function of organized crime.

However, he DOES specifically remember that his father was not involved in any of it. Funny that.

Dedwrekka

Dark_Side wrote: »

Dedwrekka wrote: »

ArcTangent wrote: »

It turns out that Don Jr "couldn't remember" basically anything during his testimony. Shock and surprise.

Trump’s eldest son repeatedly said that he could not recall details about the Trump administration’s involvement in the public response to the meeting, or the degree to which his father was involved, according to both publications. In response to committee staffers’ questions, Trump Jr. specifically denied taking any of the Russian participants to visit with his father at Trump Tower, where the sit-down was held, or telling his father about the meeting afterwards, according to CNN.

This stated lack of engagement with the White House breaks sharply with previous reporting on the harried efforts to get ahead of stories about the meeting. The New York Times reported in July that senior White House aides, Trump’s personal legal team, Trump Jr. himself, and lawyers for Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner, who also attended the meeting, all coordinated the initial response while the President was flying back from the G20 summit in Berlin. Trump himself signed off on a misleading statement that claimed the meeting focused mostly on the adoption of Russian children, according to the Times.

---

Another significant memory lapse involved the three phone calls that Trump Jr. had prior to the meeting with Emin Agalarov, a Russian pop star acquainted with the family. Emails between Trump Jr. and Rob Goldstone, a British publicist who said he brokered the meeting on the Agalarovs’ behalf, mentioned arranging calls between the two men, while Trump Jr. acknowledged in his prepared statement that his phone records documented those three conversations.

But Trump Jr. told the committee he could not recall what they spoke about, according to the Post, and a lawyer for Agalarov told the newspaper that he had “absolutely no memory” of the conversations either. Agalarov’s phone records also documented the three calls.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/what-senate-panel-learned-trump-jr-testimony

Dodging questions and claiming mass amnesia. Uh huh.

Chicago Amnesia - The term used to describe witnesses and principal suspects being unable to recall any details relating to crimes, dates, or the function of organized crime.

However, he DOES specifically remember that his father was not involved in any of it. Funny that.

"Trump? He's just some guy, ya know?"

Metzger Meister

It's so frustrating that people can just say "I forgot" and that's that.