Separate from the current discussion, I think there's a way to establish a nice, relatively seamless security check that would have caught this guy, though it may take some rethinking of traffic routing within casinos. Metal detectors can be tuned to have different response rates: this past week I had a small family vacation at Disney, and the metal detectors at the park entrances didn't respond when I just had my belt on, but they did when my brother had a belt, a phone, charging cables, and a wallet on him.
If you tune the gain on a metal detector to respond only to a rifle-sized chunk of metal (at minimum), and design your pedestrian flow properly to pass through multiple gates to eliminate false positives, you can ensure that flagged guests can be intercepted and inspected discretely without interrupting normal operations. Sure, since this is Vegas you may accidentally trigger on an eccentric Whale bringing in some bullion for some odd reason, but at the same time with the right touch this can be regarded as an extra security feature: the sensors should also work with outbound pedestrian traffic. That way, it's not a single-purpose security feature: casinos can ensure that guests have an additional layer of security both on entrance and exit, without interfering with their day-to-day experience.
Okay, but you know they have a rifle - then what? It wasn't against the law for him to have all those guns in his hotel room.
Sure, though you might ask some pointed questions if a guest brings up 10+ bags themselves, each one with at least two guns inside (on average). That amount of personal property and its total value would be a significant liability for potential theft, and a hotel would want to ensure such items were more properly secured, especially if the person bringing them was in such good standing with the hotel that they could already receive a comped room.
Vegas is (was?) a very VERY popular place for firearm conventions. During big conventions it wouldn't be rare at all to have this many guns on you for trade or sale. I think due to the lax nature of Nevada's laws.
Shot Show, which basically is THE yearly gun industry trade show is in Las Vegas every year around January.
So I keep seeing the quantity of guns talked about. Do we know if he actually used more then 1?
It's a little cross-posty with the gun control thread, but it's the issue I keep coming back to with all the response regulations - it doesn't seem like any of what's proposed would substantially have removed the danger.
Yes, he definitely used more than 1. He had two setup on tripods with scopes, at the very least.
He could have saved time reloading by grabbing a new loaded gun instead.
And given the number of rounds fired, isn't there's also a heat element? I'm reading reports that ~500 shots were fired, and thermodynamics would indicate some sort of heat waste buildup might make it problematic to keep using the same gun.
Just looking at a video that was posted either earlier in this thread or in the Gun Control thread where a guy is "torture testing" his full-auto AR-15 that has a couple aftermarket parts (gas block and bolt - presumably to better stand the heat of extended shooting periods) and what was described in the video description as "one of the most affordable barrels on the market," catastrophic failure didn't happen until ~830 rounds were fired (the longest break between shooting was about 5-7 seconds while remarking how hot the barrel and gas block was getting). The video maker also did the same test with a cheap store-bought model and went through 430 rounds before the plastic bits started melting. So, yeah, it does become an issue...but usually at around that 500 round mark.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
So it turns out the note contained a bunch of numbers and thats it.
As if this couldn't get any more cryptic.
edit: also the security guard took a round in the leg and then went on to clear rooms with the cops until they noticed and told him to stop. The man's a god damned hero.
Wow, what a guy. I hope there are civilian medals for this sort of thing!
I'd guess that the cryptic numbers were something technical to do with his guns, but that won't stop the conspiracy theorists!
My guess would be an encryption key for something.
So I keep seeing the quantity of guns talked about. Do we know if he actually used more then 1?
It's a little cross-posty with the gun control thread, but it's the issue I keep coming back to with all the response regulations - it doesn't seem like any of what's proposed would substantially have removed the danger.
Yes, he definitely used more than 1. He had two setup on tripods with scopes, at the very least.
He could have saved time reloading by grabbing a new loaded gun instead.
And given the number of rounds fired, isn't there's also a heat element? I'm reading reports that ~500 shots were fired, and thermodynamics would indicate some sort of heat waste buildup might make it problematic to keep using the same gun.
Just looking at a video that was posted either earlier in this thread or in the Gun Control thread where a guy is "torture testing" his full-auto AR-15 that has a couple aftermarket parts (gas block and bolt - presumably to better stand the heat of extended shooting periods) and what was described in the video description as "one of the most affordable barrels on the market," catastrophic failure didn't happen until ~830 rounds were fired (the longest break between shooting was about 5-7 seconds while remarking how hot the barrel and gas block was getting). The video maker also did the same test with a cheap store-bought model and went through 430 rounds before the plastic bits started melting. So, yeah, it does become an issue...but usually at around that 500 round mark.
I was thinking less about it hitting the point of catastrophic failure, and more radiant heat. It's one thing to have a clamped weapon get to the point it malfunctions (or in some clips I've seen, catch on fire), it's another to be holding the weapon even close to that point. Though I'm not familiar enough (at least practically) with these kinds of weapons to know at what point the heat from the ejection port or the barrel through the barrel shroud gets to the point where discomfort starts to become a factor.
So it turns out the note contained a bunch of numbers and thats it.
As if this couldn't get any more cryptic.
edit: also the security guard took a round in the leg and then went on to clear rooms with the cops until they noticed and told him to stop. The man's a god damned hero.
Wow, what a guy. I hope there are civilian medals for this sort of thing!
I'd guess that the cryptic numbers were something technical to do with his guns, but that won't stop the conspiracy theorists!
I mean maybe the cops are being coy with it for some reason, but I'd assume they'd recognize elevation and windage charts. Or something like that.
So I keep seeing the quantity of guns talked about. Do we know if he actually used more then 1?
It's a little cross-posty with the gun control thread, but it's the issue I keep coming back to with all the response regulations - it doesn't seem like any of what's proposed would substantially have removed the danger.
Yes, he definitely used more than 1. He had two setup on tripods with scopes, at the very least.
He could have saved time reloading by grabbing a new loaded gun instead.
And given the number of rounds fired, isn't there's also a heat element? I'm reading reports that ~500 shots were fired, and thermodynamics would indicate some sort of heat waste buildup might make it problematic to keep using the same gun.
Just looking at a video that was posted either earlier in this thread or in the Gun Control thread where a guy is "torture testing" his full-auto AR-15 that has a couple aftermarket parts (gas block and bolt - presumably to better stand the heat of extended shooting periods) and what was described in the video description as "one of the most affordable barrels on the market," catastrophic failure didn't happen until ~830 rounds were fired (the longest break between shooting was about 5-7 seconds while remarking how hot the barrel and gas block was getting). The video maker also did the same test with a cheap store-bought model and went through 430 rounds before the plastic bits started melting. So, yeah, it does become an issue...but usually at around that 500 round mark.
I was thinking less about it hitting the point of catastrophic failure, and more radiant heat. It's one thing to have a clamped weapon get to the point it malfunctions (or in some clips I've seen, catch on fire), it's another to be holding the weapon even close to that point. Though I'm not familiar enough (at least practically) with these kinds of weapons to know at what point the heat from the ejection port or the barrel through the barrel shroud gets to the point where discomfort starts to become a factor.
Discomfort would be within 20 - 40 rounds, if your hand was close to the barrel. With a shroud and a fore-grip you could go much longer as your hand is away from the heat source. ACTUAL injury (like burning your hand) depends on a number of factors but the barrel itself is hot enough to leave permanent damage to persons body after about 50 rounds. Less depending on caliber.
Per Rachael Maddow, Vegas basically has gun show each weekend and Nevada has very lax weapon laws, so a multitude of weapons are not uncommon. That said, this asshole seems to have more than the average knowledge of weapons. Under that assumption, many gun owners keep their weapons in cases. Even further, many rifle cases are designed for it to be disassembled. An average person most likely wouldn't even know a weapon was being carried into a hotel in those conditions. That said, I don't actually know if Paddock used weapon cases, but I believe it likely.
As for why multiple weapons, shooting that much, that fast rapidly heats up the weapon and could potentially lead to misfire, possibly injuring the shooter or at least disabling the weapon. Also, that many rounds causes gun powder residue to build up quickly, also leading to malfunctions. That he took steps to ignore a sustained rate of fire (what we use to prevent weapon damage from heat), further proves how prepared he was and his weapon's knowledge.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I was just looking at YouTube's trending list. It's filled with conspiracies and assertions that the event was a false flag. These videos are invoking Trump, accusing the mainstream media of creating a false narrative, as I suppose should be expected by now.
My only main concern is that they're on the trending list. These videos are getting millions of views, and the like to dislike ratio is not very encouraging.
I fear the conspiracy theories surrounding this event are going to be much more challenging to counter this time around.
As of yesterday if you Googled Steven Paddock (at least in my results) the 5th result was a BS "Steven Paddock at anti Trump rally" youtube video. The disinformation campaign is real
Looks like YouTube got told. They're modifying their recommendstion algorithms.
So the only pattern in this guy's thought that we have so far, which still isn't a motive, is that he scouted outdoor venues.
I can't handle not knowing what he was trying to achieve.
Infamy.
That's an assumption not backed by anything.
Well, it's a fairly reasonable assumption backed by the history of what happens when you do that sort of thing, but yes, it is an assumption nonetheless.
So the only pattern in this guy's thought that we have so far, which still isn't a motive, is that he scouted outdoor venues.
I can't handle not knowing what he was trying to achieve.
There's a problem in general with the public losing interest in shooters before their motive has been discovered. For example, does anyone here know what the motive was for the guy who shot that Republican senator?
It would help if there weren't so many of them, but that would require us to put effort into understanding why shooters become that way and how to address the underlying issues that create them.
So the only pattern in this guy's thought that we have so far, which still isn't a motive, is that he scouted outdoor venues.
I can't handle not knowing what he was trying to achieve.
There's a problem in general with the public losing interest in shooters before their motive has been discovered. For example, does anyone here know what the motive was for the guy who shot that Republican senator?
.
Pretty much the obvious. He hated Republicans and Trump. Political assassination.
+1
Options
KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
edited October 2017
I actually think the public pays far too much attention to the motivations, in most shootings, and it's become part of the weird politics surrounding any given event. i.e. This guy was a nutjob, see? It wasn't the guns!
It actually doesn't matter at all with regard to gun control policy whether or not the guy was a right-winger targeting a music festival full of millenials, a leftist who hates Trump, a sovereign citizen, or anything else. It's useful to understand for a number of OTHER reasons, to be sure, but I view it as largely irrelevant and potentially detrimental to the gun control debate side of it.
edit - Realized this was the LV shooting thread specifically and not the gun control one. Anyhow, the point remains.
So the only pattern in this guy's thought that we have so far, which still isn't a motive, is that he scouted outdoor venues.
I can't handle not knowing what he was trying to achieve.
There's a problem in general with the public losing interest in shooters before their motive has been discovered. For example, does anyone here know what the motive was for the guy who shot that Republican senator?
It would help if there weren't so many of them, but that would require us to put effort into understanding why shooters become that way and how to address the underlying issues that create them.
I really don't think this is the case at all. I mean, for starters, the public is not the body that is supposed to be exploring shooter motives for answers - that should be down to the police & public health agencies.
And people don't drop their interest in spree killers so easily. If I say 'Columbine' or 'Virginia Tech', the first things that spring to most people's minds are the shootings & shooters. A fairly significant chunk of the population becomes so obsessed over such events that they invent mythology surrounding it.
The 'underlying problems' had a loud rapport and were unmistakable in action.
So the only pattern in this guy's thought that we have so far, which still isn't a motive, is that he scouted outdoor venues.
I can't handle not knowing what he was trying to achieve.
Death.
Well yes, but why these people?
Why not? Can't the explanation be as simple as proving a point that he could do what he wanted with an arsenal of legally acquired weapons?
That's an explanation which is why he'd target these people. But if we accept this it means other motives would be ruled out, at least partially. That said, the underlying motive would be remain hidden - why is going on a killing spree in the first place? The reasons for lashing out randomly (or simply the easiest targets he can access) is still a motive.
edit: Who he targets varies on what message he wanted to send to the public/police. It's not an obvious motive like trying to assassinate a politician or a specific minority/demographic.
So the only pattern in this guy's thought that we have so far, which still isn't a motive, is that he scouted outdoor venues.
I can't handle not knowing what he was trying to achieve.
Death.
Well yes, but why these people?
Why not? Can't the explanation be as simple as proving a point that he could do what he wanted with an arsenal of legally acquired weapons?
We can't lose sight of what is important here, though, by distracting ourselves with talk about something as immaterial as the enormous arsenal of weaponry the shooter was able to assemble at a moment's notice to make manifest an ultraviolent fantasy.
This doesn't really sound any different than how a large chunk of the country talks about guns and the 2nd amendment, and they don't all go on killing sprees*. It's not really much of an insight into why he did what he did.
*I know this is unfortunately a talking point used by those that are anti-gun legislation, and support of that idea is not my intent.
This doesn't really sound any different than how a large chunk of the country talks about guns and the 2nd amendment, and they don't all go on killing sprees*. It's not really much of an insight into why he did what he did.
*I know this is unfortunately a talking point used by those that are anti-gun legislation, and support of that idea is not my intent.
Well, it plants him firmly among the gun-rights set politically. That's not a huge revelation or anything but, if true, is confirmation of what many expected.
Catching up on a couple of posts. I haven't seen any other reported incidents, but Dan Bilzerian, who is a rich asshole gun nut that was at the concert did try harassing cops into giving him a gun. The cop's response was, "No, get the fuck away from me right now. I don't know who the fuck you are" which I think is about as polite as you can expect in the circumstances. So the cops did have at least one encounter with a very stupid guy who was trying to get a gun.
Fire departments traditionally have waited on the sidelines of shooting scenes until police declare it safe for medics to go in and treat victims. In some cases, including high-profile mass shootings, that resulted in wounded patients bleeding to death even though medics could have saved them with immediate aid.
Learning lessons from the shootings at Columbine High School outside Denver in 1999 and at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., in 2012, Nevada’s first responders decided they should work while under fire.
“We saw from the reports of how these people died and the lack of interaction with the police departments and we knew we had to fix that,” Clark County Fire Chief Greg Cassell said Thursday.
Cassell said police and fire agencies in Nevada have been working together since 2010 to develop concerted responses to critical incidents, but Sunday was the first time their years of training and drills deploying “rescue task forces” played out in real life.
Sixteen such task forces raced into the concert venue the night gunman Stephen Paddock opened fire from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, sending volleys of bullets down on a country music festival with 22,000 attendees, fire officials said.
Each task force included four to six armed police officers, who created a perimeter around three paramedics, said Roy Session, the deputy chief of Clark County fire operations, who deployed the teams throughout the night. The medics treated and transported the wounded to ambulances under the blanket of safety those officers provided, moving in unison with police from patient to patient.
“What we discovered in Columbine and Aurora is that people were laying and dying waiting for help,” Session said. “This team was trying to avoid that.”
The fire department has trained with police on skills including kicking down doors and treating patients in simulated live-fire environments, with blank rounds fired to ensure medics learn to do their lifesaving work while disrupted by the sound of gunfire.
Pretty much every law enforcement commentator I've seen has been praising the coordination of the emergency response, it almost certainly helped save lives, and they coordinated this whole thing while simultaneously organizing an attack on the hotel room itself.
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Also, in news that may or may not be related, a dude was arrested in Tennessee the day after the Vegas shooting with heavy firepower, lots of ammo, and survival equipment. Some cop just earned themselves a lot of donuts.
JOHNSON CITY, TENN. (AP) - Federal agents are trying to determine why a man pulled over for speeding in Tennessee was carrying a cache of weapons including two submachine guns and 900 rounds of ammunition.
Deputies found Scott Edmisten, 43, of Johnson City, carrying a .357-caliber Magnum, a loaded .45-caliber semi-automatic, a .223-caliber fully automatic assault rifle, a .308-caliber fully automatic assault rifle, more than 900 rounds of ammunition, and survival equipment, Washington County Sheriff Ed Graybeal said.
Graybeal asked the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to help investigate, since the automatic weapons aren't registered and lack serial numbers. He told The Johnson City Press that Edmisten had apparently modified the AR rifles to make them automatics.
"It's not connected to any of the other national incidents, but timing obviously was a concern," Knight said.
Knight said investigators are tracing where Edmisten's weapons came from.
"Our priority is reducing violent crime on the front end, so that's the other thing we're looking at, along with motive: Were these items going to be used for a criminal act or were they just being transported from one area to another area?"
Graybeal said Edmisten threatened his arresting officer and lunged toward investigators trying to question him. He's jailed without bond on charges of possessing prohibited weapons, speeding, and felony evading arrest. It's unclear if he has a lawyer.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Pretty much every law enforcement commentator I've seen has been praising the coordination of the emergency response, it almost certainly helped save lives, and they coordinated this whole thing while simultaneously organizing an attack on the hotel room itself.
I have nothing but praise for the first responders who put this type of coordination together... but it is an incredibly depressing state of affairs when things are so bad that you have paramedics, firefighter & police having to act & train like platoons in a warzone as the status quo.
Also, in news that may or may not be related, a dude was arrested in Tennessee the day after the Vegas shooting with heavy firepower, lots of ammo, and survival equipment. Some cop just earned themselves a lot of donuts.
JOHNSON CITY, TENN. (AP) - Federal agents are trying to determine why a man pulled over for speeding in Tennessee was carrying a cache of weapons including two submachine guns and 900 rounds of ammunition.
Deputies found Scott Edmisten, 43, of Johnson City, carrying a .357-caliber Magnum, a loaded .45-caliber semi-automatic, a .223-caliber fully automatic assault rifle, a .308-caliber fully automatic assault rifle, more than 900 rounds of ammunition, and survival equipment, Washington County Sheriff Ed Graybeal said.
Graybeal asked the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to help investigate, since the automatic weapons aren't registered and lack serial numbers. He told The Johnson City Press that Edmisten had apparently modified the AR rifles to make them automatics.
"It's not connected to any of the other national incidents, but timing obviously was a concern," Knight said.
Knight said investigators are tracing where Edmisten's weapons came from.
"Our priority is reducing violent crime on the front end, so that's the other thing we're looking at, along with motive: Were these items going to be used for a criminal act or were they just being transported from one area to another area?"
Graybeal said Edmisten threatened his arresting officer and lunged toward investigators trying to question him. He's jailed without bond on charges of possessing prohibited weapons, speeding, and felony evading arrest. It's unclear if he has a lawyer.
SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
It had been previously reported that the hotel guard who was investigating a door alarm was shot by Paddock after he had already fired into the crowd, and then he stopped shooting. Turns out this is actually the opposite of what happened. The guard was shot first, then Paddock started firing into the crowd six minutes later.
It had been previously reported that the hotel guard who was investigating a door alarm was shot by Paddock after he had already fired into the crowd, and then he stopped shooting. Turns out this is actually the opposite of what happened. The guard was shot first, then Paddock started firing into the crowd six minutes later.
This is my confused face. What led him to even interact with Paddock? It says he was investigating a door alarm for a different room, obviously, but...that's a different room!
It had been previously reported that the hotel guard who was investigating a door alarm was shot by Paddock after he had already fired into the crowd, and then he stopped shooting. Turns out this is actually the opposite of what happened. The guard was shot first, then Paddock started firing into the crowd six minutes later.
This is my confused face. What led him to even interact with Paddock? It says he was investigating a door alarm for a different room, obviously, but...that's a different room!
Presumably, the shooter got spooked and shot him through a wall or hallway. Additionally, further speculation in the article says that he was drilling into the other room. Either of them could have put 2 and 2 together and realized a confrontation was inevitable.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
0
Options
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
It had been previously reported that the hotel guard who was investigating a door alarm was shot by Paddock after he had already fired into the crowd, and then he stopped shooting. Turns out this is actually the opposite of what happened. The guard was shot first, then Paddock started firing into the crowd six minutes later.
This is my confused face. What led him to even interact with Paddock? It says he was investigating a door alarm for a different room, obviously, but...that's a different room!
Presumably, the shooter got spooked and shot him through a wall or hallway. Additionally, further speculation in the article says that he was drilling into the other room. Either of them could have put 2 and 2 together and realized a confrontation was inevitable.
He had been drilling doors closed to make it harder to get to him, I think.
Fencingsax on
0
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
It had been previously reported that the hotel guard who was investigating a door alarm was shot by Paddock after he had already fired into the crowd, and then he stopped shooting. Turns out this is actually the opposite of what happened. The guard was shot first, then Paddock started firing into the crowd six minutes later.
Which also means that the initial response wasn't anywhere near as quick or efficient as it might have been. If someone from the hotel had been shot like that, how on earth did the hotel not notify police and why was there so much initial confusion 6 minutes afterwards as to where the shooter was?
This just raises more questions than answers, like why did he wait 6 minutes to start shooting and what made him actually stop?
Regarding the delay, maybe psyching himself up to it? Just because we know he ended up arriving at taking that action doesn't mean there wasn't some hesitation. Shooting at one guy through a door, versus choosing to commit an atrocity.
Or maybe something wasn't quite ready at that very moment? Something out of place, or previously forgotten, overlooked, or unattended to? Some priority that took precedent during his final preparations?
I'm sure the final report regarding this tragedy will be equal parts horrifying and fascinating.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
It had been previously reported that the hotel guard who was investigating a door alarm was shot by Paddock after he had already fired into the crowd, and then he stopped shooting. Turns out this is actually the opposite of what happened. The guard was shot first, then Paddock started firing into the crowd six minutes later.
Which also means that the initial response wasn't anywhere near as quick or efficient as it might have been. If someone from the hotel had been shot like that, how on earth did the hotel not notify police and why was there so much initial confusion 6 minutes afterwards as to where the shooter was?
This just raises more questions than answers, like why did he wait 6 minutes to start shooting and what made him actually stop?
And there should probably be a more prominent FBI internal investigation since this indicates some degree of misinformation to present a better face to the response
It had been previously reported that the hotel guard who was investigating a door alarm was shot by Paddock after he had already fired into the crowd, and then he stopped shooting. Turns out this is actually the opposite of what happened. The guard was shot first, then Paddock started firing into the crowd six minutes later.
Which also means that the initial response wasn't anywhere near as quick or efficient as it might have been. If someone from the hotel had been shot like that, how on earth did the hotel not notify police and why was there so much initial confusion 6 minutes afterwards as to where the shooter was?
This just raises more questions than answers, like why did he wait 6 minutes to start shooting and what made him actually stop?
And there should probably be a more prominent FBI internal investigation since this indicates some degree of misinformation to present a better face to the response
Someone interviewed on NPR said that different law enforcement agencies reported slightly different timelines due to the understandable chaos, hence the confusion.
Most mass shootings start out with very confused reports, usually of multiple shooters, because in the chaos it is hard to figure out what is happening.
One weird thing about the Vegas shooting is that ISIS instantly claimed it, despite the shooter turning out to be Whitey McNoreligion, which I guess destroys *their* credibility (ha!)
It had been previously reported that the hotel guard who was investigating a door alarm was shot by Paddock after he had already fired into the crowd, and then he stopped shooting. Turns out this is actually the opposite of what happened. The guard was shot first, then Paddock started firing into the crowd six minutes later.
Which also means that the initial response wasn't anywhere near as quick or efficient as it might have been. If someone from the hotel had been shot like that, how on earth did the hotel not notify police and why was there so much initial confusion 6 minutes afterwards as to where the shooter was?
This just raises more questions than answers, like why did he wait 6 minutes to start shooting and what made him actually stop?
Reports are not always coalesced to one coordinator and there can be a disconnect between dispatch and actual patrols. It’s very possible that the hotel did report it and police were dispatched, but once the shooting on the concert started, those dispatched officers were redirected to there.
You’d think that a perfect system would put 2 and 2 together, but hindsight is 20/20. Even I would assume that a random shooting that far away and inside a building would be unrelated to hundreds of people being shot inside a concert.
Quite frankly, I’m impressed with their speed. I know what it’s like trying to make sense of a chaotic situation with limited knowledge at a timely pace.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Most mass shootings start out with very confused reports, usually of multiple shooters, because in the chaos it is hard to figure out what is happening.
One weird thing about the Vegas shooting is that ISIS instantly claimed it, despite the shooter turning out to be Whitey McNoreligion, which I guess destroys *their* credibility (ha!)
ISIS are kinda desperate right now. They've been steadily losing their strongholds over the past two years, and they only have a couple of pockets left. We can expect them to claim anything in the hopes it'll be someone they inspired, or vague enough to pass as one of theirs. We can expect more actual attempted attacks too. They're losing.
Besides, ISIS knows as well as anybody else that there's a core of people who want them to be responsible for anything like this, and will happily fit things around that. Just look at the "theories" around this shooting.
Posts
Shot Show, which basically is THE yearly gun industry trade show is in Las Vegas every year around January.
Just looking at a video that was posted either earlier in this thread or in the Gun Control thread where a guy is "torture testing" his full-auto AR-15 that has a couple aftermarket parts (gas block and bolt - presumably to better stand the heat of extended shooting periods) and what was described in the video description as "one of the most affordable barrels on the market," catastrophic failure didn't happen until ~830 rounds were fired (the longest break between shooting was about 5-7 seconds while remarking how hot the barrel and gas block was getting). The video maker also did the same test with a cheap store-bought model and went through 430 rounds before the plastic bits started melting. So, yeah, it does become an issue...but usually at around that 500 round mark.
My guess would be an encryption key for something.
I mean maybe the cops are being coy with it for some reason, but I'd assume they'd recognize elevation and windage charts. Or something like that.
Discomfort would be within 20 - 40 rounds, if your hand was close to the barrel. With a shroud and a fore-grip you could go much longer as your hand is away from the heat source. ACTUAL injury (like burning your hand) depends on a number of factors but the barrel itself is hot enough to leave permanent damage to persons body after about 50 rounds. Less depending on caliber.
Per Rachael Maddow, Vegas basically has gun show each weekend and Nevada has very lax weapon laws, so a multitude of weapons are not uncommon. That said, this asshole seems to have more than the average knowledge of weapons. Under that assumption, many gun owners keep their weapons in cases. Even further, many rifle cases are designed for it to be disassembled. An average person most likely wouldn't even know a weapon was being carried into a hotel in those conditions. That said, I don't actually know if Paddock used weapon cases, but I believe it likely.
As for why multiple weapons, shooting that much, that fast rapidly heats up the weapon and could potentially lead to misfire, possibly injuring the shooter or at least disabling the weapon. Also, that many rounds causes gun powder residue to build up quickly, also leading to malfunctions. That he took steps to ignore a sustained rate of fire (what we use to prevent weapon damage from heat), further proves how prepared he was and his weapon's knowledge.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Looks like YouTube got told. They're modifying their recommendstion algorithms.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3789111/youtube-search-results-conspiracy-videos/
Edit: here's the Guardian link quoted in that Global article
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/06/youtube-alters-search-algorithm-over-fake-las-vegas-conspiracy-videos
I can't handle not knowing what he was trying to achieve.
Infamy.
Well, it's a fairly reasonable assumption backed by the history of what happens when you do that sort of thing, but yes, it is an assumption nonetheless.
There's a problem in general with the public losing interest in shooters before their motive has been discovered. For example, does anyone here know what the motive was for the guy who shot that Republican senator?
It would help if there weren't so many of them, but that would require us to put effort into understanding why shooters become that way and how to address the underlying issues that create them.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-steve-scalise-shooting-20171006-story.html
Pretty much the obvious. He hated Republicans and Trump. Political assassination.
It actually doesn't matter at all with regard to gun control policy whether or not the guy was a right-winger targeting a music festival full of millenials, a leftist who hates Trump, a sovereign citizen, or anything else. It's useful to understand for a number of OTHER reasons, to be sure, but I view it as largely irrelevant and potentially detrimental to the gun control debate side of it.
edit - Realized this was the LV shooting thread specifically and not the gun control one. Anyhow, the point remains.
I really don't think this is the case at all. I mean, for starters, the public is not the body that is supposed to be exploring shooter motives for answers - that should be down to the police & public health agencies.
And people don't drop their interest in spree killers so easily. If I say 'Columbine' or 'Virginia Tech', the first things that spring to most people's minds are the shootings & shooters. A fairly significant chunk of the population becomes so obsessed over such events that they invent mythology surrounding it.
The 'underlying problems' had a loud rapport and were unmistakable in action.
Death.
My Backloggery
Well yes, but why these people?
Why not? Can't the explanation be as simple as proving a point that he could do what he wanted with an arsenal of legally acquired weapons?
That's an explanation which is why he'd target these people. But if we accept this it means other motives would be ruled out, at least partially. That said, the underlying motive would be remain hidden - why is going on a killing spree in the first place? The reasons for lashing out randomly (or simply the easiest targets he can access) is still a motive.
edit: Who he targets varies on what message he wanted to send to the public/police. It's not an obvious motive like trying to assassinate a politician or a specific minority/demographic.
We can't lose sight of what is important here, though, by distracting ourselves with talk about something as immaterial as the enormous arsenal of weaponry the shooter was able to assemble at a moment's notice to make manifest an ultraviolent fantasy.
This doesn't really sound any different than how a large chunk of the country talks about guns and the 2nd amendment, and they don't all go on killing sprees*. It's not really much of an insight into why he did what he did.
*I know this is unfortunately a talking point used by those that are anti-gun legislation, and support of that idea is not my intent.
Well, it plants him firmly among the gun-rights set politically. That's not a huge revelation or anything but, if true, is confirmation of what many expected.
http://www.ladbible.com/news/news-new-footage-shows-dan-bilzerian-running-towards-vegas-shooting-20171005
The Washington post has a good article on this
Pretty much every law enforcement commentator I've seen has been praising the coordination of the emergency response, it almost certainly helped save lives, and they coordinated this whole thing while simultaneously organizing an attack on the hotel room itself.
http://www.king5.com/news/tennessee-man-pulled-over-for-speeding-had-assault-rifles-900-rounds/480702115
I have nothing but praise for the first responders who put this type of coordination together... but it is an incredibly depressing state of affairs when things are so bad that you have paramedics, firefighter & police having to act & train like platoons in a warzone as the status quo.
Good. But not the topic of the thread. Let's just stick to the LV shooting.
My Backloggery
My Backloggery
This is my confused face. What led him to even interact with Paddock? It says he was investigating a door alarm for a different room, obviously, but...that's a different room!
Presumably, the shooter got spooked and shot him through a wall or hallway. Additionally, further speculation in the article says that he was drilling into the other room. Either of them could have put 2 and 2 together and realized a confrontation was inevitable.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
He had been drilling doors closed to make it harder to get to him, I think.
Which also means that the initial response wasn't anywhere near as quick or efficient as it might have been. If someone from the hotel had been shot like that, how on earth did the hotel not notify police and why was there so much initial confusion 6 minutes afterwards as to where the shooter was?
This just raises more questions than answers, like why did he wait 6 minutes to start shooting and what made him actually stop?
Or maybe something wasn't quite ready at that very moment? Something out of place, or previously forgotten, overlooked, or unattended to? Some priority that took precedent during his final preparations?
I'm sure the final report regarding this tragedy will be equal parts horrifying and fascinating.
And there should probably be a more prominent FBI internal investigation since this indicates some degree of misinformation to present a better face to the response
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Someone interviewed on NPR said that different law enforcement agencies reported slightly different timelines due to the understandable chaos, hence the confusion.
One weird thing about the Vegas shooting is that ISIS instantly claimed it, despite the shooter turning out to be Whitey McNoreligion, which I guess destroys *their* credibility (ha!)
Reports are not always coalesced to one coordinator and there can be a disconnect between dispatch and actual patrols. It’s very possible that the hotel did report it and police were dispatched, but once the shooting on the concert started, those dispatched officers were redirected to there.
You’d think that a perfect system would put 2 and 2 together, but hindsight is 20/20. Even I would assume that a random shooting that far away and inside a building would be unrelated to hundreds of people being shot inside a concert.
Quite frankly, I’m impressed with their speed. I know what it’s like trying to make sense of a chaotic situation with limited knowledge at a timely pace.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
ISIS are kinda desperate right now. They've been steadily losing their strongholds over the past two years, and they only have a couple of pockets left. We can expect them to claim anything in the hopes it'll be someone they inspired, or vague enough to pass as one of theirs. We can expect more actual attempted attacks too. They're losing.
Besides, ISIS knows as well as anybody else that there's a core of people who want them to be responsible for anything like this, and will happily fit things around that. Just look at the "theories" around this shooting.