How to Market from zero?

Carp0nastick

Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum, and I came here specifically because I know the type of audience I'd want to attract lurks here. Recently I have stopped talking about being creative and started actually creating. This is where I need some help, though, I have my friends who encouraged me to start up as an audience, and I'm wanting more. After a conversation with the forum mod to make sure I could ask this here, my question is this:

How does one advertise an online project from scratch? This is a (hopefully) Patreon supported user participation endeavor with weekly updates. I'm not allowed to link it here due to forum rules, but if you need more information to work off of, you can think of it like a webcomic. When I was actually putting down the work, I kind of assumed I could pop onto some creative writing forums and maybe generate interest. All the places I have been either give directions that don't work for my format. Have oddly specific rules against my exact type of format, or as is the case here, don't allow advertisement. In fact the only places I have been that would allow me to show up and self promote would attract the wrong kind of audience (as in NSFW sites). I've been at this for two weeks in all my spare snatches of time between continuing to deliver my free content and my day job, and I've gotten nowhere. I'm not going to promote here, obviously, but does anyone know where, and how to find an audience?

Things to consider:
I'm very poor, so while I appreciate and will hang on to any SEO and hosting advice there might be, that's a step for after I have a grass roots audience to support the need.
I'm currently setup for Patreon, but if there's a better way to do it, I'm all ears.

Pyrian

Do you have something for people to look at? Might try imgur. I usually get 100+ views of anything I put there. I'm sure you could get more if you're better than I am... Then there's Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and so on, each with its own quirks.

Enc

You won't get patrons without content. Patreon is something you begin doing once you have a solid library of content for folks to actually see what they are supporting, either through previous projects you can identify or through having a substantial web presence / catalog.

I assume you are doing a webcomic from your avatar?

ArbitraryDescriptor

What have you tried beyond trying to target specific forum communities?

Do you have any Patreon patrons, and, if so, how did you acquire them?

Also made ask @ceres if you can throw a link in your profile for those of us curious enough to look, but not curious enough to PM.

Kyougu

I'm part of random online communities on fb that have "Show Off Sunday", a place where people can post about their projects and advertise.

Obviously you want an online presence with fb/twitter/Instagram, etc.

You also want to build followers based on people liking your art. Join art forums and just contribute. I know I followed a lot of artist simply because I was fan of the random things they would share.

Enc

The "recently I started" language is one of the things that sends up a red flag for me concerning Patreon. I've been a content creator with weekly output for about 5 years now. I waited to start Patreon till this year and, honestly, I still make more from commissions. I'm super thrilled at the handful of folks that are willing to keep my upkeep costs low, but Patreon as a tool isn't a good money-making device unless you are starting with a side-business and building up to your main business. Patreon also requires perks to really push funding, and if you don't have time to do that it can really hamper your support. I don't do perk-driven funding right now because I don't have time to do my real job, perks, and my normal art output and still remain happily married, and my funded has dropped recently because of it. I'm fine with that, but it is something to consider as you look into the platform. At the same time, unless your perks are things like art commissions people simply won't care unless they are already part of your established fan base, making it less than stellar for new projects.

Patreon can be nice with something like a webcomic because you really aren't going to get people buying physical merch, art commissions, or kickstartering you unless they already are fans of your work.

Just something to remember though, even if your webcomic art and storytelling skills are the bees knees you aren't going to make money in the short term. Most folks have 2-4 years of comic storytelling before they get any sort of reliable funding, including catalogs of quality art and stories you can share for folks to get invested in your archive before wanting the Patreon perks ( like early release and such).

ceres

Profile or sig is fine, but you can't point to your sig and go HAY GUYS LOOK AT THIS

ArbitraryDescriptor

Note to OP: mobile viewers won't see your signature.

Iruka

Carp0nastick wrote: »

When I was actually putting down the work, I kind of assumed I could pop onto some creative writing forums and maybe generate interest. All the places I have been either give directions that don't work for my format. Have oddly specific rules against my exact type of format, or as is the case here, don't allow advertisement. In fact the only places I have been that would allow me to show up and self promote would attract the wrong kind of audience (as in NSFW sites). I've been at this for two weeks in all my spare snatches of time between continuing to deliver my free content and my day job, and I've gotten nowhere. I'm not going to promote here, obviously, but does anyone know where, and how to find an audience?

You should probably take a moment to categorize what you want from the places you are putting your work. Social media is a projection that people opt into. Communities, like forums, are an established place that you insert yourself into.

Communities require participation, and its often overlooked. Even if your work is okay (or even, pretty good!) the people who follow you in the beginning are going to be friends. "Friends" might just be people you interact with on social media, but interaction is key. If you never participate in someway, your work needs to be beyond stellar to just propel itself. The smaller and more intimate the community, the less they want someone just dumping their work on them with no interest in how they perceive it. Metaphorically, it's like if you went out to dinner with your friends, and someone walked up to try to sell you a book. Even if you would like the book, even if you are currently at a book club meeting, you'd react by trying to get back to your friends. The smaller the group, the more basic social queues apply more than SEO tactics.

That principal basically applies for every site in different ways. My tumblr is more active when I invest the time in tumblr, and my twitter is more active when I invest time in twitter. Not just posting my stuff, but responding to comments, liking and commenting on other people's work, participating in hashtags and such.

If you dont want to do this sort of thing, I suggest packing your work into completed projects. Finished things are easier to present, and give more incentive for someone to give something a chance.

Carp0nastick

Enc wrote: »

You won't get patrons without content. Patreon is something you begin doing once you have a solid library of content for folks to actually see what they are supporting, either through previous projects you can identify or through having a substantial web presence / catalog.

I assume you are doing a webcomic from your avatar?

Been at this for 2/3 of a year by now. Plenty to look at. It's not a Webcomic, but there is both writing and art involved in a user directed story.

ArbitraryDescriptor wrote: »

What have you tried beyond trying to target specific forum communities?

Do you have any Patreon patrons, and, if so, how did you acquire them?

Also made ask @ceres if you can throw a link in your profile for those of us curious enough to look, but not curious enough to PM.

I hadn't found any specific ways to market yet. I kept running into very specific denials and otherwise coming up empty on viable routes to get the word out. I have players, but they are all broke college and between job types, so no Patrons as of yet.

Thanks for asking Ceres for me!

Enc wrote: »

The "recently I started" language is one of the things that sends up a red flag for me concerning Patreon. I've been a content creator with weekly output for about 5 years now. I waited to start Patreon till this year and, honestly, I still make more from commissions. I'm super thrilled at the handful of folks that are willing to keep my upkeep costs low, but Patreon as a tool isn't a good money-making device unless you are starting with a side-business and building up to your main business. Patreon also requires perks to really push funding, and if you don't have time to do that it can really hamper your support. I don't do perk-driven funding right now because I don't have time to do my real job, perks, and my normal art output and still remain happily married, and my funded has dropped recently because of it. I'm fine with that, but it is something to consider as you look into the platform. At the same time, unless your perks are things like art commissions people simply won't care unless they are already part of your established fan base, making it less than stellar for new projects.

Patreon can be nice with something like a webcomic because you really aren't going to get people buying physical merch, art commissions, or kickstartering you unless they already are fans of your work.

Just something to remember though, even if your webcomic art and storytelling skills are the bees knees you aren't going to make money in the short term. Most folks have 2-4 years of comic storytelling before they get any sort of reliable funding, including catalogs of quality art and stories you can share for folks to get invested in your archive before wanting the Patreon perks ( like early release and such).

I've been at this for free since March this year. I'm still putting out free content with early access for my lowest level patrons. I thought about doing this on a commission basis, but it just doesn't make sense with the sequential format. Plus I didn't want anyone claiming I gave those that paid more, more control over the choices made by the audience.

Iruka wrote: »

You should probably take a moment to categorize what you want from the places you are putting your work. Social media is a projection that people opt into. Communities, like forums, are an established place that you insert yourself into.

Communities require participation, and its often overlooked. Even if your work is okay (or even, pretty good!) the people who follow you in the beginning are going to be friends. "Friends" might just be people you interact with on social media, but interaction is key. If you never participate in someway, your work needs to be beyond stellar to just propel itself. The smaller and more intimate the community, the less they want someone just dumping their work on them with no interest in how they perceive it. Metaphorically, it's like if you went out to dinner with your friends, and someone walked up to try to sell you a book. Even if you would like the book, even if you are currently at a book club meeting, you'd react by trying to get back to your friends. The smaller the group, the more basic social queues apply more than SEO tactics.

That principal basically applies for every site in different ways. My tumblr is more active when I invest the time in tumblr, and my twitter is more active when I invest time in twitter. Not just posting my stuff, but responding to comments, liking and commenting on other people's work, participating in hashtags and such.

If you dont want to do this sort of thing, I suggest packing your work into completed projects. Finished things are easier to present, and give more incentive for someone to give something a chance.

As far as what I'm looking for: primarily, a bigger audience. It costs nothing to play, I have confidence that the patrons will come for more based on the project goals. The whole project is interactive, so that's halfway taken care of, but you're right about actively participating. With my limited audience I've been using a Line chatgroup to keep in touch. There's just not enough curiosity or questions to work with from my original group.

I keep seeing Facebook mentioned, and you can't see it but I'm making a very uncomfortable face. How necessary would you guys rate Facebook if I'm using the other social platforms?

Cambiata

I was going to make a "what do" post then I saw Iruka already said everything way gooder than I could do.

As for Facebook: when I'm trying to find out about someone's project, I usually find Facebook a lot better for simple information gathering (like when is X project to be released? Is there a shop where I can buy a t-shirt? Have there been any updates in a while? etc.). Something like Tumblr is less ideal for that because the artist may have made an update three weeks ago about something important, which now you can't find without going back a couple of pages. Facebook lets you present important information front-loaded.

There have been times I tried to find out more about an artist from their Facebook and found it to be basically a place-holder with nothing more on it than their Twitter bio. Definitely don't do that. If you're not going to work on the Facebook page, it probably isn't worth having.