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A shooting in Texas

ElkiElki get busyModerator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
edited November 2017 in Debate and/or Discourse
A gunman walked into a small Baptist church in rural Texas on Sunday and opened fire, killing at least 25 people and turning a tiny town east of San Antonio into the scene of the country’s most recent mass horror.

Representative Henry Cuellar of Texas confirmed the death toll, which has steadily increased throughout the day after the shooting at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs.

Accounts of the number of dead have varied: Paul W. Pfeil, a Wilson County, Tex., commissioner, said that he did not have a total count of those killed but that it was “more than 20.”

Albert Gamez Jr., another Wilson County commissioner, told CNN that he was told by an emergency medical technician that 27 people were dead and 24 others were injured. He said he was told by the police that the gunman was chased into the next county and was killed, but it was not clear whether the police shot him or he killed himself.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/us/church-shooting-texas.html

The shooter was convicted of domestic assault

Air Force failed to add him to the background check system

  • It's a developing event, so verify your news before posting. A lot of rumors will be going around.
  • Gun control talk goes in the gun control thread.
  • Don't be an asshole.

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Posts

  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Someone make a new thread for the Texas shooting.

    This world is depressing. :(

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
    edited November 2017
    Sigh.

    Like, It’s terrible and I am just as hurt by this as I was a month or two ago when it happened last, and so on and so forth back to when I was creating gun control threads because I was certain we would do something about it.

    syndalis on
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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    This continues to be a horrifying year with no end in sight, I see.

  • mRahmanimRahmani DetroitRegistered User regular
    Is there any point to these threads anymore? Seems like there's one weekly now. I'm not sure what there is to do since this country has collectively decided that mass shootings aren't a problem.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    mRahmani wrote: »
    Is there any point to these threads anymore? Seems like there's one weekly now. I'm not sure what there is to do since this country has collectively decided that mass shootings aren't a problem.

    There is always a way the response can be more messed up than before.

    MacNab, an anti-government extremist reporter:
    A TX Congressman just told CNN that the church shooter was named Sam Hyde. That's a joke put out by 4Chan every time there's a shooting.

    The Congressman said that he was told that name by officials. It's a fricking 4Chan joke, @CNN.

    And a writer for Mic with the video of Sam Hyde being blamed:

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Fuck.

    Edit: Another one? The last couple months have been awful between hurricanes and shootings.

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  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Racism driven legislative action occurs almost immediately but nothing else does. Our own government does not actually care about its citizens.

    The anarchists have a point. This system is garbage.

    This whole situation and the past years that shootings have just kept ratcheting up in gargantuan terribleness is garbage.

    Maybe fuck America, sorry to anyone I made fun of for emigrating to somewhere else.

    Kadoken on
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Can someone please explain the Sam Hyde thing? I don’t 4chan so I don’t understand the joke.

    I assume it’s along the line of assholes that believe in “crisis actors” or some such nonsense.

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  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    I’m honestly surprised this doesn’t happen with greater frequency in the Deep Red states, to tell you the truth. The volume of people who have been driven crazy by the anti-government/pro-gun/open-carry subculture is pretty scary.

    We just had to get police involved at my hospital because a fired employee that was part of that culture kept showing up and calling people and basically acting like a dangerous fucking weirdo.

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Can someone please explain the Sam Hyde thing? I don’t 4chan so I don’t understand the joke.

    I assume it’s along the line of assholes that believe in “crisis actors” or some such nonsense.

    some child or man child said it would be funny to associate a person with a bad thing and then the lemmings followed.

    i guess sam hyde is their choice to use whenever a shooting happens so they bombard media with false accusations and reports because hey that's a good thing to do for the lulz.

    DasUberEdward on
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  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Can someone please explain the Sam Hyde thing? I don’t 4chan so I don’t understand the joke.

    I assume it’s along the line of assholes that believe in “crisis actors” or some such nonsense.

    He's a shitty comedian from what I can gather so they propagate his name after every mass shooting to take advantage of the confusion and try and get a laugh out of media grabbing hold of it.

    Also at this point I kinda struggle to feel anything but an anger at people who still defend guns as some great American freedom that must be protected. It's a vile industry that is literally profiting off of people's blood for your entertainment and hobbies.

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Can someone please explain the Sam Hyde thing? I don’t 4chan so I don’t understand the joke.

    I assume it’s along the line of assholes that believe in “crisis actors” or some such nonsense.

    @Mild Confusion

    It's unclear, this is from 2016. It just became a thing.
    It is unclear why started people started spreading “Sam Hyde is the shooter” last year, and if it was done by his haters or by his fans. 4channers have a tendency to try to frame members of their community as mass shooters. (“Eggman” and “Plork.” are just two 4chan participants who have been falsely accused as mass shooters.) In the case of Sam Hyde, pranksters fooled CNN as the Oregon shooter in October. As one thread on the rival Internet trash forum Something Awful noted, 4channers love to hate him.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/fruzsinaeordogh/2016/06/02/explaining-the-sam-hyde-as-mass-shooter-meme/#1ff97391270a

  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    As usual, NRA backed politicians are conflating the offer of prayer (sympathies) with taking action. Also this thread title is really something, says a lot about the state of the country.

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    I’m honestly surprised this doesn’t happen with greater frequency in the Deep Red states, to tell you the truth. The volume of people who have been driven crazy by the anti-government/pro-gun/open-carry subculture is pretty scary.

    We just had to get police involved at my hospital because a fired employee that was part of that culture kept showing up and calling people and basically acting like a dangerous fucking weirdo.

    Washington Post has an article today about gun violence and they go into all major shootings in the past 50 years. The map looks like population density is more a factor with location, which I guess makes some sense. California is the heaviest hit state. They also mention that it does depend on how you count mass shootings, so how you interpret the data can be based on what you are looking for.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/mass-shootings-in-america/

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  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    It sounds like they've figured out who the shooter is but have yet to release his name. Sources are saying he had facebook posts recently that may be related.
    Can someone please explain the Sam Hyde thing? I don’t 4chan so I don’t understand the joke.

    I assume it’s along the line of assholes that believe in “crisis actors” or some such nonsense.

    The best I can up with is just the knowyourmeme page on him.

  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    A daily mail article I read said that the church normally holds 50 people, and that 27 were dead and 24 injured.

    So...basically no one got out without getting shot at least once.

  • JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    They've ID'd the killer
    Devin Patrick Kelley has been identified as the gunman who killed at least 24 people at a church in Texas, a U.S. official tells The Daily Beast. Kelley, 26, was a resident of New Braunfels, a suburb of San Antonio, according to public records. Kelley was married and Kelley's mother-in-law listed a P.O. box in Sutherland Springs as a mailing address. San Antonio police reportedly raided Kelley's home on Sunday evening. A LinkedIn account appearing to belong to Kelley describes him as serving in the U.S. Air Force from his 2009 high-school graduation until 2013, after which he briefly taught at a summer Bible school. On a now-deleted Facebook account, Kelley recently displayed an AR-15 style gun, ABC News reports.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/devin-patrick-kelley-idd-as-sutherland-springs-church-killer

    JoeUser on
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Emissary42 wrote: »
    It sounds like they've figured out who the shooter is but have yet to release his name. Sources are saying he had facebook posts recently that may be related.
    Can someone please explain the Sam Hyde thing? I don’t 4chan so I don’t understand the joke.

    I assume it’s along the line of assholes that believe in “crisis actors” or some such nonsense.

    The best I can up with is just the knowyourmeme page on him.

    Sounds like someone took our forum’s LorctheOrc inside joke and gave it cancer.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    Racism driven legislative action occurs almost immediately but nothing else does. Our own government does not actually care about its citizens.

    The anarchists have a point. This system is garbage.

    This whole situation and the past years that shootings have just kept ratcheting up in gargantuan terribleness is garbage.

    Maybe fuck America, sorry to anyone I made fun of for emigrating to somewhere else.

    The anarchists do not have a point, since in their ideal world shit like this would be happening way more often.

  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Kadoken wrote: »
    Racism driven legislative action occurs almost immediately but nothing else does. Our own government does not actually care about its citizens.

    The anarchists have a point. This system is garbage.

    This whole situation and the past years that shootings have just kept ratcheting up in gargantuan terribleness is garbage.

    Maybe fuck America, sorry to anyone I made fun of for emigrating to somewhere else.

    The anarchists do not have a point, since in their ideal world shit like this would be happening way more often.

    Well, it would have a distinct spike and then start to decay downward as the eventual supreme Feudal Lord established their reign through glorious conquest.
    Ah, the critical flaw in communist, objectivist, and anarchist theories: they depend 100% on no one breaking certain very specific rules (which is especially funny for anarchism).

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »

    The reports coming out so far are weird.

    I think we've got little signal and a lot of noise at this point.

  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Was the church parish largely made up of one specific ethnic group like in South Carolina? Was that a potential motivation here?

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    1 in 25 citizens of the town are dead.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    RedTide wrote: »
    Was the church parish largely made up of one specific ethnic group like in South Carolina? Was that a potential motivation here?

    White, blue collar, small-town America.

    Shooter was also white and apparently Christian as well.

    jungleroomx on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    We already have laws in Texas saying you can bring a gun to church unless the church specifically prohibits them

    I wouldn’t put it past the NRA to use this as a way of pushing for that if for some reason they were currently banned

    Then again, they could always try to remove even the ability for churches to prohibit them on the premises

    I’m not even kidding, gun violence and the responses to it are so far beyond the pale now you couldn’t find them up Casper the Ghost’s ass with the world’s most thorough colonoscopy.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Kadoken wrote: »
    Racism driven legislative action occurs almost immediately but nothing else does. Our own government does not actually care about its citizens.

    The anarchists have a point. This system is garbage.

    This whole situation and the past years that shootings have just kept ratcheting up in gargantuan terribleness is garbage.

    Maybe fuck America, sorry to anyone I made fun of for emigrating to somewhere else.

    The anarchists do not have a point, since in their ideal world shit like this would be happening way more often.

    Uh, I'm not an anarchist, but political anarchism is mostly about dispersing political power by relocating authority into communities and the workplace. It's not Mad Max, it's more about your job being run by a workers council and your neighborhood being run by a neighborhood committee.

  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Was the church parish largely made up of one specific ethnic group like in South Carolina? Was that a potential motivation here?

    White, blue collar, small-town America.

    Shooter was also white and apparently Christian as well.

    Oh, so instead of being a terrorist he'll either be mentally ill or a fan of metal music or something.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    RedTide wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Was the church parish largely made up of one specific ethnic group like in South Carolina? Was that a potential motivation here?

    White, blue collar, small-town America.

    Shooter was also white and apparently Christian as well.

    Oh, so instead of being a terrorist he'll either be mentally ill or a fan of metal music or something.

    These are the way of things

    He was an Air Force veteran as well

    jungleroomx on
  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    He was a former Sunday school teacher. Was that where he was radicalized?

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    1 in 25 citizens of the town are dead.

    Jesus Christ.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    1 in 25 citizens of the town are dead.

    Jesus Christ.

    He killed half of the congregation.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    We already have laws in Texas saying you can bring a gun to church unless the church specifically prohibits them

    I wonder how many of the victims were packing. Assuming this church didn't prohibit them.

    I'm thinking of the musician in Vegas who changed his stance on guns in the wake of the massacre, realising how useless they were at that point.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    We already have laws in Texas saying you can bring a gun to church unless the church specifically prohibits them


    I'm thinking of the musician in Vegas who changed his stance on guns in the wake of the massacre, realising how useless they were at that point.

    That was one guy out of goodness knows how many musicians at the festival. Although many of them might have already been OK with gun control I guess.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    We already have laws in Texas saying you can bring a gun to church unless the church specifically prohibits them

    I wonder how many of the victims were packing. Assuming this church didn't prohibit them.

    I'm thinking of the musician in Vegas who changed his stance on guns in the wake of the massacre, realising how useless they were at that point.

    Probably very few if any. Just because you can doesn’t mean people commonly do.

    Cowboy churches (yes this is a real thing) are a different story, but for the most part people don’t come to church packing heat

  • archivistkitsunearchivistkitsune Registered User regular
    1 in 25 citizens of the town are dead.

    I was going to mention that in this thread. That's like 7% of the town that just got murdered today.

    Anyways, I'm wondering if we'll find out what the motive here is. As far as I can tell, it doesn't look like it was racially motivated seeing how the shooter is white and the victims are predominantly white. Could 2017 like fuck off with all the fucking awful shit?

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Kadoken wrote: »
    Racism driven legislative action occurs almost immediately but nothing else does. Our own government does not actually care about its citizens.

    The anarchists have a point. This system is garbage.

    This whole situation and the past years that shootings have just kept ratcheting up in gargantuan terribleness is garbage.

    Maybe fuck America, sorry to anyone I made fun of for emigrating to somewhere else.

    The anarchists do not have a point, since in their ideal world shit like this would be happening way more often.

    Uh, I'm not an anarchist, but political anarchism is mostly about dispersing political power by relocating authority into communities and the workplace. It's not Mad Max, it's more about your job being run by a workers council and your neighborhood being run by a neighborhood committee.

    I'm pretty sure that is socialism or perhaps (real) communism.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I’m starting to disbelieve in “motives” for this sort of thing, unless the shooter explicitly states them (e.g. Neo Nazi or ISIS). I think they do them because they are sick fucks and they want to.

  • Lavender GoomsLavender Gooms Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    I’m starting to disbelieve in “motives” for this sort of thing, unless the shooter explicitly states them (e.g. Neo Nazi or ISIS). I think they do them because they are sick fucks and they want to.

    And they can.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    What's the t-minus on these people being called out as crisis actors?

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Kadoken wrote: »
    Racism driven legislative action occurs almost immediately but nothing else does. Our own government does not actually care about its citizens.

    The anarchists have a point. This system is garbage.

    This whole situation and the past years that shootings have just kept ratcheting up in gargantuan terribleness is garbage.

    Maybe fuck America, sorry to anyone I made fun of for emigrating to somewhere else.

    The anarchists do not have a point, since in their ideal world shit like this would be happening way more often.

    Uh, I'm not an anarchist, but political anarchism is mostly about dispersing political power by relocating authority into communities and the workplace. It's not Mad Max, it's more about your job being run by a workers council and your neighborhood being run by a neighborhood committee.

    I'm pretty sure that is socialism or perhaps (real) communism.

    Gettng off topic, but local control via workers councils and local committees is 100 percent the basis of most schools of anarchism - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

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