Is there ever a time when a CS Varian will make a bigger difference in a teamfight than Taunt. Because HL is infested with CS and I have never seen it work out.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I'll never understand why people get so mad in qm. Like bro, this is literally the most casual vs people mode. If you wanna be any level of serious you have a whole two other options.
Because this logic is inherently flawed on the assumption that people ARE taking the other modes more seriously. Spoiler: They are not. At all.
Just because it's QM doesn't mean people can't try to play the game properly. You should absolutely still be on the hook for dragging your entire team down or generally playing poorly.
I'll never understand why people get so mad in qm. Like bro, this is literally the most casual vs people mode. If you wanna be any level of serious you have a whole two other options.
Because this logic is inherently flawed on the assumption that people ARE taking the other modes more seriously. Spoiler: They are not. At all.
Just because it's QM doesn't mean people can't try to play the game properly. You should absolutely still be on the hook for dragging your entire team down or generally playing poorly.
Maybe it's just me but I can't remember seeing anyone literally not trying at all. As long as you're putting some effort in and not disrespecting others time completely I'm fine.
And I seem to have reached a zen like state for heroes, winning or losing I'm just having fun. The only thing frustrating is when my shitty AUS internet hiccups and I get the odd 3-4 seconds of no connectivity.
I'll never understand why people get so mad in qm. Like bro, this is literally the most casual vs people mode. If you wanna be any level of serious you have a whole two other options.
Because this logic is inherently flawed on the assumption that people ARE taking the other modes more seriously. Spoiler: They are not. At all.
Just because it's QM doesn't mean people can't try to play the game properly. You should absolutely still be on the hook for dragging your entire team down or generally playing poorly.
I think it is also worth noting that for apparently the vast majority of people QM is the game, the other modes may as well not exist. As such people are going to take it seriously.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I'll never understand why people get so mad in qm. Like bro, this is literally the most casual vs people mode. If you wanna be any level of serious you have a whole two other options.
Because it's an investment of time.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Is there ever a time when a CS Varian will make a bigger difference in a teamfight than Taunt. Because HL is infested with CS and I have never seen it work out.
Sure there is such a time. It's a lot of burst damage and with KT, I can see a squishy target he might want to blow up. However, that would also require the team already have a solid tank which Leoric is not. Like if your team had a Leoric and a Jo or Muradin, sure. Take CS or even TB. But not that team.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
That's pretty much it, yeah. It's when Varian is your off-tank and provides some bruiser-bulk without any peel. Paired with the right assassin, CS can immediately remove a hero and decide a fight. But at lower levels it's probably the wrong choice since lack of coordination and all that ...
i could certainly see the boss change being an intentional change. i kinda like the idea too.
Ugh, no. On Warhead, maybe. On Cursed Hallow it's fucking awful. Juggling the two bosses is a big part of CH strategy. You gotta know when they are doing a boss and how to react to it and use that to your advantage.
I personally don't find the idea of "you got one boss so you are virtually guaranteed the other" very compelling. Yes, it is a strategy and it's fine if people like it. I am fine with it going away and the majority of the focus bring on the curse itself.
The only issue I see arising is the "dead time" after a curse. Usually the procedure is this: curse --> push as many lanes as possible (or most appropriate lane)--> claim camps possibly boss
That is assuming that a boss wasn't claimed so as to push while the tribute is being claimed. This change, again assuming it is intended, would impact the former scenario. As opposed to team 2 having to clear lanes, then clear boss, then clear ANOTHER boss, and whoops they had to give up another tribute as well. I think it has the potential to open up more strategies as you don't get caught in whirlpool of snowballs if you ever fall behind.
Edit: cursed hollow is my favorite map I think so I don't have a huge issue with the play pattern. However I don't mind if it changed slightly either
But that's not the strategy. And if that's the outcome you are always getting, you aren't effectively managing the boss. You need to pick up on when they are doing a boss and quickly determine whether you can rotate to either take your own before they get there or ambush them or whether you have to just eat the double boss. And the other team has to anticipate what moves you can make on that front too. Most frequently the double bosses on Cursed Hollow means both teams get one and the whole thing ends up a wash, which is part of what makes them less oppressive then on Warhead.
I'll never understand why people get so mad in qm. Like bro, this is literally the most casual vs people mode. If you wanna be any level of serious you have a whole two other options.
Because this logic is inherently flawed on the assumption that people ARE taking the other modes more seriously. Spoiler: They are not. At all.
Just because it's QM doesn't mean people can't try to play the game properly. You should absolutely still be on the hook for dragging your entire team down or generally playing poorly.
I think it is also worth noting that for apparently the vast majority of people QM is the game, the other modes may as well not exist. As such people are going to take it seriously.
It is the only game mode if you wanna play a specific hero too. Which is, lets be real, one of the reasons QM is the whole game for a majority of the playerbase.
I'll never understand why people get so mad in qm. Like bro, this is literally the most casual vs people mode. If you wanna be any level of serious you have a whole two other options.
Because this logic is inherently flawed on the assumption that people ARE taking the other modes more seriously. Spoiler: They are not. At all.
Just because it's QM doesn't mean people can't try to play the game properly. You should absolutely still be on the hook for dragging your entire team down or generally playing poorly.
I think it is also worth noting that for apparently the vast majority of people QM is the game, the other modes may as well not exist. As such people are going to take it seriously.
It is the only game mode if you wanna play a specific hero too. Which is, lets be real, one of the reasons QM is the whole game for a majority of the playerbase.
I agree with you, but the strategy and reality rarely line up. Typically it is "hey they are doing boss RIGHT NOW" with a million pings. Everyone continues to do their thing, then when they finish the boss they roll up to the next one. Having been on both sides often enough I wouldn't be opposed to changing the play pattern. At a certain point it isn't worth trying to teach people things.
That's before you debate why they (or you) we're able to safely get a boss in the first place. The overarching question of "if we take boss #1 should boss #2 be a given?" Is something to consider. Maybe the answer is just play better and you won't be in that position. I'm not inclined to believe the general populace is going to do that.
BUT WHOA that's a really fucking solid buff for Valeera's Hemorrhage! Garrote build may actually be a thing now!
Man, why is Valeera getting so many buffs? She rivals Garrosh for horrid design and I'd rather just see them remove her from the game entirely.
You're still thinking about Valeera in the old/current context.
You're going to be able to see her. All the time. You can react when you see her on your screen. Her stun is getting nerfed to 0.75 seconds.
She's going to be a lot less oppressive.
And there's also never not a reason to buff underperforming talents. Hemo was performing really, really badly. This will bring it up. Moreover, Hemo/Garrote build is a sustained damage build! It's not burst!
But what's more strange is that Nova and Zeratul are getting nerfed so much.... I guess I should try PTR out to see what this new stealth is like because it sounds like it's not very beneficial compared to old stealth but it must be a lot better than I expect.
Uhhhhh whoa, no. Zeratul is not getting nerfed at all. He's going to be amazing when the patch drops. Nova though, yes.
I'll never understand why people get so mad in qm. Like bro, this is literally the most casual vs people mode. If you wanna be any level of serious you have a whole two other options.
Because this logic is inherently flawed on the assumption that people ARE taking the other modes more seriously. Spoiler: They are not. At all.
Just because it's QM doesn't mean people can't try to play the game properly. You should absolutely still be on the hook for dragging your entire team down or generally playing poorly.
I think it is also worth noting that for apparently the vast majority of people QM is the game, the other modes may as well not exist. As such people are going to take it seriously.
It is the only game mode if you wanna play a specific hero too. Which is, lets be real, one of the reasons QM is the whole game for a majority of the playerbase.
You'd think that, but uh...some of these draft picks...
Re: stealth I still haven't gotten. The chance to see how it looks. Only time I've seen streamers with those heroes in game is when the streamer is playing the hero in question. As a result I still am not sure what the changes actually look like. Based on what people are saying it just essentially prevents auto attacks?
Haven't played on the ptr, but I think you still get the old stealth invisibility (or is it true invisibility?) when not moving for 3 sec.
An impression I read was that valeera has to setup in advanced at an obj or wherever the enemy team was going to be in order to open up on a character without being revealed.
Will depend on the match up and what tools they have to reveal you in order to get in opener range. Likely a very niche pick now
Haven't played on the ptr, but I think you still get the old stealth invisibility (or is it true invisibility?) when not moving for 3 sec.
That part makes sense but above dibby is saying you'll see them 100% of the time. The notes indicate that the predator shimmer is still around so I'm a little confused
Haven't played on the ptr, but I think you still get the old stealth invisibility (or is it true invisibility?) when not moving for 3 sec.
That part makes sense but above dibby is saying you'll see them 100% of the time. The notes indicate that the predator shimmer is still around so I'm a little confused
There is supposed to be a much-more-conspicuous shimmer incoming, plus there was a patch note about being invisible-invisible if you stand still long enough on all 4 characters.
Haven't played on the ptr, but I think you still get the old stealth invisibility (or is it true invisibility?) when not moving for 3 sec.
That part makes sense but above dibby is saying you'll see them 100% of the time. The notes indicate that the predator shimmer is still around so I'm a little confused
Let me clarify.
*ahem*
Stealthies gain pure 100% invisibility upon not moving for 1.5 seconds, and retain it as long as they stay still. I think this only works when not mounted, and does not work on capture points.
BUT OTHERWISE, in actual active combat and play otherwise, yeah you will see them approaching. The new stealth shader is much much more visible. It's not the "shimmer" that we have now, you will straight up see a much more visible "model" now.
So that's what I meant. Stealthies can no longer sneak up and gank someone because you'll always see them coming. I didn't mean that you will literally see their model and that Stealth doesn't work anymore, I meant that you will be able to see them approaching when they're in stealth, because the new model/shader is much more visible.
The only way a Stealthy can gank you now is if they've gotten to a location ahead of time and gone invisible. But they gotta be stationary for that.
Otherwise, you'll see that more visible "model" and be able to knock them out of stealth or react otherwise very easily.
I'm interested to see what the new stealth effect looks like, as someone who from the start has railed against stealth being basically an eye test and its effectiveness depending mostly on the other players' ability to pass said eye test.
I'll never understand why people get so mad in qm. Like bro, this is literally the most casual vs people mode. If you wanna be any level of serious you have a whole two other options.
Well, technically Brawl is the most casual Vs people mode. :hydra:
I'm interested to see what the new stealth effect looks like, as someone who from the start has railed against stealth being basically an eye test and its effectiveness depending mostly on the other players' ability to pass said eye test.
I've been trying to find an image on reddit or something, no such luck. But lemme put it this way: I can actually see the damn thing when watching streams.
Yknow, like, that's something, man. Through STREAMS.
I'm interested to see what the new stealth effect looks like, as someone who from the start has railed against stealth being basically an eye test and its effectiveness depending mostly on the other players' ability to pass said eye test.
I'm interested to see what the new stealth effect looks like, as someone who from the start has railed against stealth being basically an eye test and its effectiveness depending mostly on the other players' ability to pass said eye test.
I'm interested to see what the new stealth effect looks like, as someone who from the start has railed against stealth being basically an eye test and its effectiveness depending mostly on the other players' ability to pass said eye test.
I've been trying to find an image on reddit or something, no such luck. But lemme put it this way: I can actually see the damn thing when watching streams.
Yknow, like, that's something, man. Through STREAMS.
I agree though, the fuckin' eye test was horrid.
It also incentivized people - including pros - to run the game at the lowest possible graphics settings in order to see the shimmer more easily.
I have to say that even if the stealth rework doesn't come out perfectly right out the gate, I really like what Blizzard did with this. They identified the core problems and found a really clean solution that both doesn't patronize lesser-skilled players and opens up stealth heroes to actual viability in pro play.
I think it's important to call out that in a lesser culture, the dev team would be incredibly resistant to this kind of fundamental change, especially if they were the ones who came up with the original idea. "Just git gud" might be a meme but it's a very common rationalization for a lot of unnecessarily problems.
Those links put my mind at ease. This will be a big relief for my olde man eyes. The Nova Brawl will be interesting with these changes!
I wonder if the stealth hero changes will cause them to see a notable tick up in play in the pro scene (besides, presumably, Zeratul, since VP will still be VP).
It all depends on if the heroes are worth a damn. Too early to tell right now. Might need some buffs, nerfs, or number tweaks.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Huh. Nobody has talked about the mercenary changes? First I've seen of it. The siege giant one is a bit weird, but everything else looks great. Here's hoping there's a bit of a nerf to the damned summoner. :P
I'm guessing Malthael is rare because something has to be, maybe also kharazim since they're both just retextures.
Valla is probably legendary, and I'm going with epic for malf. bet mount is also epic.
most of the old winter veil skins are legendary though iirc.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
The Valla skin apparently has a bunch of new animations, so that will likely be Legendary.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Holy crap.
I got a game with some idiots so stupid in quickmatch, I thought we were done for. I was nova, didn't think there was shit I could do.
But lo and behold, I somehow hard carried my team to victory.
Look at this shiiiiit:
Like, hammer and morales were just split pushing bot while the enemy team had a punisher up rampaging on a keep. And Morales in her infinite wisdom took fucking Medivac.
Medivac. When her teammates were Zuljin and Hammer. What in the actual fuck.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Hurray, I don't like any of those~
Though I admit to feeling a certain obligation to owning the Arctic Reign-Deer. <_<
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I mean, Morales also split off from the four of us to try and solo clear out a wave of mobs in the bot lane without pinging for help or anything.
She was not the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Is there ever a time when a CS Varian will make a bigger difference in a teamfight than Taunt. Because HL is infested with CS and I have never seen it work out.
Because this logic is inherently flawed on the assumption that people ARE taking the other modes more seriously. Spoiler: They are not. At all.
Just because it's QM doesn't mean people can't try to play the game properly. You should absolutely still be on the hook for dragging your entire team down or generally playing poorly.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Maybe it's just me but I can't remember seeing anyone literally not trying at all. As long as you're putting some effort in and not disrespecting others time completely I'm fine.
And I seem to have reached a zen like state for heroes, winning or losing I'm just having fun. The only thing frustrating is when my shitty AUS internet hiccups and I get the odd 3-4 seconds of no connectivity.
I think it is also worth noting that for apparently the vast majority of people QM is the game, the other modes may as well not exist. As such people are going to take it seriously.
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Because it's an investment of time.
Sure there is such a time. It's a lot of burst damage and with KT, I can see a squishy target he might want to blow up. However, that would also require the team already have a solid tank which Leoric is not. Like if your team had a Leoric and a Jo or Muradin, sure. Take CS or even TB. But not that team.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
But that's not the strategy. And if that's the outcome you are always getting, you aren't effectively managing the boss. You need to pick up on when they are doing a boss and quickly determine whether you can rotate to either take your own before they get there or ambush them or whether you have to just eat the double boss. And the other team has to anticipate what moves you can make on that front too. Most frequently the double bosses on Cursed Hollow means both teams get one and the whole thing ends up a wash, which is part of what makes them less oppressive then on Warhead.
It is the only game mode if you wanna play a specific hero too. Which is, lets be real, one of the reasons QM is the whole game for a majority of the playerbase.
I agree with you, but the strategy and reality rarely line up. Typically it is "hey they are doing boss RIGHT NOW" with a million pings. Everyone continues to do their thing, then when they finish the boss they roll up to the next one. Having been on both sides often enough I wouldn't be opposed to changing the play pattern. At a certain point it isn't worth trying to teach people things.
That's before you debate why they (or you) we're able to safely get a boss in the first place. The overarching question of "if we take boss #1 should boss #2 be a given?" Is something to consider. Maybe the answer is just play better and you won't be in that position. I'm not inclined to believe the general populace is going to do that.
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You're still thinking about Valeera in the old/current context.
You're going to be able to see her. All the time. You can react when you see her on your screen. Her stun is getting nerfed to 0.75 seconds.
She's going to be a lot less oppressive.
And there's also never not a reason to buff underperforming talents. Hemo was performing really, really badly. This will bring it up. Moreover, Hemo/Garrote build is a sustained damage build! It's not burst!
Uhhhhh whoa, no. Zeratul is not getting nerfed at all. He's going to be amazing when the patch drops. Nova though, yes.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
You'd think that, but uh...some of these draft picks...
Re: stealth I still haven't gotten. The chance to see how it looks. Only time I've seen streamers with those heroes in game is when the streamer is playing the hero in question. As a result I still am not sure what the changes actually look like. Based on what people are saying it just essentially prevents auto attacks?
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
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An impression I read was that valeera has to setup in advanced at an obj or wherever the enemy team was going to be in order to open up on a character without being revealed.
Will depend on the match up and what tools they have to reveal you in order to get in opener range. Likely a very niche pick now
That part makes sense but above dibby is saying you'll see them 100% of the time. The notes indicate that the predator shimmer is still around so I'm a little confused
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
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There is supposed to be a much-more-conspicuous shimmer incoming, plus there was a patch note about being invisible-invisible if you stand still long enough on all 4 characters.
Let me clarify.
*ahem*
Stealthies gain pure 100% invisibility upon not moving for 1.5 seconds, and retain it as long as they stay still. I think this only works when not mounted, and does not work on capture points.
BUT OTHERWISE, in actual active combat and play otherwise, yeah you will see them approaching. The new stealth shader is much much more visible. It's not the "shimmer" that we have now, you will straight up see a much more visible "model" now.
So that's what I meant. Stealthies can no longer sneak up and gank someone because you'll always see them coming. I didn't mean that you will literally see their model and that Stealth doesn't work anymore, I meant that you will be able to see them approaching when they're in stealth, because the new model/shader is much more visible.
The only way a Stealthy can gank you now is if they've gotten to a location ahead of time and gone invisible. But they gotta be stationary for that.
Otherwise, you'll see that more visible "model" and be able to knock them out of stealth or react otherwise very easily.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I've been trying to find an image on reddit or something, no such luck. But lemme put it this way: I can actually see the damn thing when watching streams.
Yknow, like, that's something, man. Through STREAMS.
I agree though, the fuckin' eye test was horrid.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Here's a side-by-side comparison video (located halfway down page). Way easier to see the differences now.
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Still don't like it.
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Go to the 1:10-1:40 mark to see Valeera stealth in action. There's no way you can miss a stealthy person coming at you.
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It also incentivized people - including pros - to run the game at the lowest possible graphics settings in order to see the shimmer more easily.
I have to say that even if the stealth rework doesn't come out perfectly right out the gate, I really like what Blizzard did with this. They identified the core problems and found a really clean solution that both doesn't patronize lesser-skilled players and opens up stealth heroes to actual viability in pro play.
I think it's important to call out that in a lesser culture, the dev team would be incredibly resistant to this kind of fundamental change, especially if they were the ones who came up with the original idea. "Just git gud" might be a meme but it's a very common rationalization for a lot of unnecessarily problems.
I wonder if the stealth hero changes will cause them to see a notable tick up in play in the pro scene (besides, presumably, Zeratul, since VP will still be VP).
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Not a big fan of the Valla ears but I'm guessing they added them for hero clarity, given Jaina's skin looks pretty similar.
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Valla is probably legendary, and I'm going with epic for malf. bet mount is also epic.
most of the old winter veil skins are legendary though iirc.
I got a game with some idiots so stupid in quickmatch, I thought we were done for. I was nova, didn't think there was shit I could do.
But lo and behold, I somehow hard carried my team to victory.
Look at this shiiiiit:
Like, hammer and morales were just split pushing bot while the enemy team had a punisher up rampaging on a keep. And Morales in her infinite wisdom took fucking Medivac.
Medivac. When her teammates were Zuljin and Hammer. What in the actual fuck.
Though I admit to feeling a certain obligation to owning the Arctic Reign-Deer. <_<
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
probably not super relevant to your game but the choice isn't so simple!
Bad decision on the part of Morales.
I want bluehair Valla.
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She was not the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree.