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[Total War]: 3 Kingdoms is out! Rats and Lizardman fight it out in WH2.

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    CuddlyCuteKittenCuddlyCuteKitten Registered User regular
    Did the rite to get a Casket of Souls on turn 8 or something, totally worth it.

    On the other hand holy shit can things get hard for Khalida in the early game. There's nothing really wrong with Knights or Stalkers but they aren't great either.
    And if your figthing something with a lot of bodies (like Queek with a bajilion shielded clanrats) once you run out of arrows your DPS is completly gone.

    Tried a 6k skaven (90 % clanrats) vs 4k TK battle. Went well untill about 2/3rds where my army stopped killing people. TK infantry is really, really shitty.

    I love it though. It's really fun to just set up a line you can pretty much ignore and that you don't care about and then spend the rest of the battle playing around with actually fun units in order to do damage. Every win feels fairly well deserved.

    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaow - Felicia, SPFT2:T
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    CampyCampy Registered User regular
    So while I sick as a dog the other day, I consoled myself with a purchase of the latest Warhammer Total War. I'ts been a while since I've played a TW game and I'm having an absolute blast. Since I'm a total edgelord I've gone with the dark elves (woo slave sacrifices!). Been meandering my way through the early game, not being particularly efficient, cursing skaven almost constantly (those little bastards get everywhere!) and slowly taking over the northwest portion of the map. I also managed a rather ridiculous accidental coup de gras. I'd been best buddies with another dark elf faction to the south, using them as a buffer against all sorts of things, with the notion to turn on them once I'd taken out the rest of my enemies. Since the latter part of the plan had taken so long we'd ended up with a hugely positive relationship of +130. Along with the fact that my armies were much larger than theirs, rather than fighting them over decades I simply invited them to confederate and promptly inherited about 4 whole provinces.

    So now I'm sat with about 8000 gold per turn surplus, overland access to the southern jungle lands and a Black Ark arriving on the high elf islands with a raiding force. Gonna get my raid/slave on!

    The only downside to all this is that I'm really tired at work today

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Kruite wrote: »
    Doge sphinx or scorpion for anti infantry? Been going the scores because you can field more of them with the hero+building

    *kitteh Sphinx

    Sphinx are half Lion.

    I feel like big kitty would be upset if you confused it for a doge.

    Big kitty is the best. I don't remember the specific complaints, but they make it hard for me to think Tomb Kings are bad at offensive sieges. Unlike a lot of other awesome huge units, you can stick two of them on the gate and they have enough room to attack at the same time. Gates have been going down in around a minute and 15 seconds for me with two of them on it, and a section of the wall soon follows with their sweet artillery. With Settra starting with one and getting his own at level 18, it's kind of hilariously good.

    They easily have the most stylish artillery. Relatively effectiveness be damned when you give me a catapult that launches white hot screaming skulls, and an artillery piece that is a skeleton man on a swirling pile of bones shooting souls out of an evil casket.

    Fiatil on
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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Watching this video makes me rethink how I'm playing The Empire Campaign.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzfDyNJH_Zo&t=564s

    First, know that I have never completed a campaign. Upon getting and SSD (and TW: WII crashing) I decided to try again. My economy is doing approximately three times better because I invested in the Growth buildings and policies I neglected, and learned to request trade agreements instead of waiting for them to occur. However, my Lords' armies consist of classic, basic units. Dudes with pointy objects, dudes on horses and dudes with projectiles. In my old runs, I could not fathom having the economy for the fancier artillery, but now I'm in position to do so. I'm on Turn 90 and Its prime time for me to reshuffle my units. I'll give my basic units to the lord investigating Britannia for the enemies of Man, while Karl and Baltazar build up artillery.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    Did the rite to get a Casket of Souls on turn 8 or something, totally worth it.

    On the other hand holy shit can things get hard for Khalida in the early game. There's nothing really wrong with Knights or Stalkers but they aren't great either.
    And if your figthing something with a lot of bodies (like Queek with a bajilion shielded clanrats) once you run out of arrows your DPS is completly gone.

    Tried a 6k skaven (90 % clanrats) vs 4k TK battle. Went well untill about 2/3rds where my army stopped killing people. TK infantry is really, really shitty.

    I love it though. It's really fun to just set up a line you can pretty much ignore and that you don't care about and then spend the rest of the battle playing around with actually fun units in order to do damage. Every win feels fairly well deserved.

    see I didn't have that problem because I picked a fight with kroq gar and his 20 sauros deathstacks

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I harassed Kroq Gar enough (he started it!) that he confederated with Hexoatl who are in possession of considerably more chill. I'm currently feuding with the High Elves though, right before I came to work they started a siege on me that autoresolves into a valiant defeat. Maybe I can win it?

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I haven't fought any Skaven yet, but given that they're heavy on hordes of trash infantry and that disposing of trash infantry in style is the Tomb Kings speciality, I think they'd struggle a lot.

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    CuddlyCuteKittenCuddlyCuteKitten Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    Did the rite to get a Casket of Souls on turn 8 or something, totally worth it.

    On the other hand holy shit can things get hard for Khalida in the early game. There's nothing really wrong with Knights or Stalkers but they aren't great either.
    And if your figthing something with a lot of bodies (like Queek with a bajilion shielded clanrats) once you run out of arrows your DPS is completly gone.

    Tried a 6k skaven (90 % clanrats) vs 4k TK battle. Went well untill about 2/3rds where my army stopped killing people. TK infantry is really, really shitty.

    I love it though. It's really fun to just set up a line you can pretty much ignore and that you don't care about and then spend the rest of the battle playing around with actually fun units in order to do damage. Every win feels fairly well deserved.

    see I didn't have that problem because I picked a fight with kroq gar and his 20 sauros deathstacks

    I see how that might be even worse. :)

    On the topic of saurus my last campaing was lizardmen and I typically solved most sieges by just telling all my saurus and templeguard to scale the walls since being on a wall is the ideal place for a saurus.
    It turns out that it doesnt work that way for tomb kings and also the only reason it worked with vampire counts was because I had 6 vampires going in with the zombies and skeletons (as Isabella as well).

    Is there a good way to do sieges as TK? They seem like one of the worst factions when it comes to storming a city.

    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaow - Felicia, SPFT2:T
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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Jars wrote: »
    Did the rite to get a Casket of Souls on turn 8 or something, totally worth it.

    On the other hand holy shit can things get hard for Khalida in the early game. There's nothing really wrong with Knights or Stalkers but they aren't great either.
    And if your figthing something with a lot of bodies (like Queek with a bajilion shielded clanrats) once you run out of arrows your DPS is completly gone.

    Tried a 6k skaven (90 % clanrats) vs 4k TK battle. Went well untill about 2/3rds where my army stopped killing people. TK infantry is really, really shitty.

    I love it though. It's really fun to just set up a line you can pretty much ignore and that you don't care about and then spend the rest of the battle playing around with actually fun units in order to do damage. Every win feels fairly well deserved.

    see I didn't have that problem because I picked a fight with kroq gar and his 20 sauros deathstacks

    I see how that might be even worse. :)

    On the topic of saurus my last campaing was lizardmen and I typically solved most sieges by just telling all my saurus and templeguard to scale the walls since being on a wall is the ideal place for a saurus.
    It turns out that it doesnt work that way for tomb kings and also the only reason it worked with vampire counts was because I had 6 vampires going in with the zombies and skeletons (as Isabella as well).

    Is there a good way to do sieges as TK? They seem like one of the worst factions when it comes to storming a city.

    If all you have is their low tier stuff, it's pretty hard. Chariots suck in sieges, and their low tier infantry is not good. If you're Settra and start with the Warsphinx, sick it on the door and you can probably win it with that and Settra getting 90% of your kills (early game).

    Once you get two warsphinx, the gate goes down hilariously quick. Getting artillery obviously improves the situation greatly. It seems like by turn 50 or so it shouldn't be much of a deal -- catapults, ushabti, and something monstruous turns it into a pretty standard affair in my experience

    Fiatil on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    the siege tactics for TK seem to be "break down the gate, flood them". I don't know what the defensive tactics are (and need to figure it out!), their archers either suck or can't go on walls.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I haven't fought any Skaven yet, but given that they're heavy on hordes of trash infantry and that disposing of trash infantry in style is the Tomb Kings speciality, I think they'd struggle a lot.

    skaven do well against constructs, I think, with warp lightning cannons and poison globediers

    More infantry heave tomb-king armies with chariot backup should wreck them, though.

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I haven't fought any Skaven yet, but given that they're heavy on hordes of trash infantry and that disposing of trash infantry in style is the Tomb Kings speciality, I think they'd struggle a lot.

    skaven do well against constructs, I think, with warp lightning cannons and poison globediers

    More infantry heave tomb-king armies with chariot backup should wreck them, though.

    Honestly, for any particular setup the Skaven or Tomb kings can make the other side can make a perfect counter-setup, and it would also depend heavily on terrain.
    Infanry heavy tomb kings would be wrecked by deathwind globadiers, plagueclaws and warpfire throwers (holy shit do warpfire throwers wreck tomb king infantry), but those in turn are very vulnerable to Ushabti greatbows etc etc.

    At least the Skaven have nothing equivalent of Temple guard.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    ydejinydejin Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    So how well do the Total War games play in co-op? One of my favorite things to do in grand strategy games like Civ and Stellaris is to play a co-op campaign with a friend against the computer. Is that pretty doable in these games?

    @GnomeTank Total War Warhammer (1 and 2) are really great for coop play. I’ve got quite a few hours playing coop including three campaigns (one in progress).

    One of the really nice design decisions was during tactical combat, your coop partner can hand over some of his units to you to control. So you don’t watch a tactical battle during your coop partner’s turn, you actually can participate.

    Also during your coop partner’s you still have control of the game interface, you can check the status of your armies and your cities and provinces. You can’t actually build anything, but you can see what you’ll be able to build as soon as it’s your turn. The one annoying limitation is that you can’t check the diplomatic status of anyone during your partner’s turn. But other than that you have access to most everything else, so you can mull over your options to your hearts content.

    With TW WH2 you also have the option for both of you to play the same race, so playing High Elves one of you plays Tyrion and the other plays Teclis. This works in Mortal Empires (combined WH1 and WH2 campaign) as well, except unfortunately for “The Empire” since all three of “The Empire” Lords start in the exact same city. Alternatively you can play different races (which does give you more variety on the tactical battles) either choosing something that makes sense lore-wise (e.g., Empire and Dwarves) or if you really want, something that makes no sense at all (say Dwarves and Orcs).

    Other Total War games (other than Warhammer), I’ve heard some of them work well coop, but some of them are buggy. I know for example, Shogun 2 had a real reputation as having coop campaign bugs. I’m not sure at what point they got the network code all cleaned up, and I don’t know if it got back-ported to earlier games. But at least WH1 and WH2, I’ve had no problem in probably ~100 hours of coop campaign play.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    So if I'm playing and my partner gets into a battle, it'll take me into the battle and I can participate or not participate? That would be really cool for a stream, one guy can get the awesome camera angles etc

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    CuddlyCuteKittenCuddlyCuteKitten Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    the siege tactics for TK seem to be "break down the gate, flood them". I don't know what the defensive tactics are (and need to figure it out!), their archers either suck or can't go on walls.

    My archers actually do very well with 100+ kills * 6 every battle. Their range is not great but with buffs they pack a punch and now when I have the red skill they can fire for days. They arent elfs but they seem to do comparable damage to crossbowmen. The skeleton spearmen get 5 kills each tops.

    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaow - Felicia, SPFT2:T
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    I had a skaven siege where my infantry were fighting on the walls and all the orc infantry was waiting to climb onto the walls to fight so I shot through the broken gate with a warpfire thrower and they largely sat there eating all the damage. 400 kills later I won

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    ydejinydejin Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Tube wrote: »
    So if I'm playing and my partner gets into a battle, it'll take me into the battle and I can participate or not participate? That would be really cool for a stream, one guy can get the awesome camera angles etc

    Yep. As long as your coop partner decides to play the battle instead of auto-resolve, you’ll get the option to spectate. (I think there might be other options, possibly just ignore the battle and keep on reviewing your strategic situation — not sure — I always choose to spectate). If you spectate, at any point during the battle, your coop partner can choose individual units and hand them over for your control. I think alternatively you could really just spectate, presumably you’ll only be able to see what he sees (not the God’s eye view with no fog-of-war that you get during replays).

    The way we do it is as soon as the battle deployment phase beings, we choose approximately half the army and hand it over to our partner. But you could for example, give the other player just the cavalry to micro-manage for example. Or if someone was really good at manually firing the artillery you could give them just that to aim and fire. Also when the battle has reinforcements, a lot of times we’ll hand the other player the entire reinforcement army to control.

    ydejin on
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    KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    the siege tactics for TK seem to be "break down the gate, flood them". I don't know what the defensive tactics are (and need to figure it out!), their archers either suck or can't go on walls.

    They can break down towers and walls with Casket of Souls and Screaming Skull Catapults. The Casket is very efficient at breaking towers, it takes about 7 or 8 shots to destroy a tower.

    Caskets also have a high arc of fire so they're surprisingly accurate against units behind walls, especially if you move them up close to the wall.

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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    the fact that the quick match bug survived from 1 is extremely annoying

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    SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    I'm 100 turns into a Settra campaign, and I'm already fielding 8 armies.. eight! Granted there is a lot of filler in there, but that's still insane. No upkeep penalties = steamroll.

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    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    I'm playing Imhotep Khatep in Mortal Empires, and I've only gotten like 2 provinces but that's mostly because a lot of the stuff I'm expanding into isn't stuff I want to I've been raising it. Right now I'm taking a break from fighting the Dark Elves to utterly destroy Tretch Craventail because he cancelled our non-aggression pact so I thought why not. He used to have like 6 cities. Now I think he just has his main army, and when I kill him there will only be ruins (that Malekith will presumably snatch up) After that I'm going to go kill Morathi because she has a Book of Nagash I want.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I still need to learn how to siege properly. Back when I was trying to figure out how to play Brettonia (never was too effective at it), that first siege were you go all out on the left never really worked out for me.

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    FreiFrei A French Prometheus Unbound DeadwoodRegistered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Frei on
    Are you the magic man?
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    Corp.ShephardCorp.Shephard Registered User regular
    Have you folks gotten too deep into your Mortuary Cults? I have all of the resources for the level 2 army unlock... I have been floating around it for quite a while. Yet I cannot unlock it. Is this a bug... or is there some hidden requirement that is not showing up for my game? Screenshot below.

    18B6C9505C9182261E1E47ED422A2F2E3AAFA4CB

    Regardless of the inability to get more armies I think I am closing the book pretty quickly on my Legendary Khatep game. Tomb Kings are just crazy powerful on the campaign map. It feels bad that I have to attack my great lord and liege Settra but if I must own the Black Pyramid of Nagash to win then I will have to betray my alliance and strike down my King of Kings...


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    SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    Have you folks gotten too deep into your Mortuary Cults? I have all of the resources for the level 2 army unlock... I have been floating around it for quite a while. Yet I cannot unlock it. Is this a bug... or is there some hidden requirement that is not showing up for my game? Screenshot below.

    18B6C9505C9182261E1E47ED422A2F2E3AAFA4CB

    Regardless of the inability to get more armies I think I am closing the book pretty quickly on my Legendary Khatep game. Tomb Kings are just crazy powerful on the campaign map. It feels bad that I have to attack my great lord and liege Settra but if I must own the Black Pyramid of Nagash to win then I will have to betray my alliance and strike down my King of Kings...

    Yeah it's a bug, the gold price for a new army goes up by 10k with every unlock but it's not reflected on the screen.

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Frei wrote: »

    That's his ordinary killsync. Not something unique for lords.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    the siege tactics for TK seem to be "break down the gate, flood them". I don't know what the defensive tactics are (and need to figure it out!), their archers either suck or can't go on walls.

    They can break down towers and walls with Casket of Souls and Screaming Skull Catapults. The Casket is very efficient at breaking towers, it takes about 7 or 8 shots to destroy a tower.

    Caskets also have a high arc of fire so they're surprisingly accurate against units behind walls, especially if you move them up close to the wall.

    I've found that Ushabti greatbows is the best weapon for taking out towers. 3 units of them can easily decimate a tower in a few salvos, and even if they run out of ammunition they can still slay enemies in close combat.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Caskets of Souls are great in offensive sieges with their mortar-ey arc.. I normally let my screaming skull catapults deal with the walls and such, and have the Casket shoot over the walls. It's racking up around 300 kills a siege, albeit against other Tomb Kings for the most part.

    Fiatil on
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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Hmm. I think I'll break off my current Khalida campaign (and complete it for Domination victory later) and do an Arkhan the Black campaign instead.
    I just don't want to break my alliance with Khemri, and Khemri just took the Black Pyramid of Nagash.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    The ai is annoying like that. Current game a beastman group spawned in reikland and razed eilhart while my guys were in sylvania, I raised a new lord and army, killed the beastman tribe which was seiging altdorf by this point, was walking over and my ‘allies’ the Bretonians colonized Eilhart breaking up my capital province before I could get there.

    Damn it Louen this is why humans can’t have nice things.

    Jealous Deva on
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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Late game tomb kings are pretty nuts

    Not used to having this many armies

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    Turn 118 books of nagash win, CA is getting better and better at scripted battles.
    iWZhNPd.jpg

    I don't know if it's just settra's start pos or what, but that was by far the easiest legendary campaign win. Hopefully there will be a patch or a mod to slow them down a bit. Love the faction though, gonna try other LLs.

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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    it's because their way to increase difficulty is make you have fewer armies which 1) isn't very good 2) doesn't work on TK

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    I don't know if it's just settra's start pos or what, but that was by far the easiest legendary campaign win.

    Settras campaign is the easiest of all campaigns, and even more so on legendary since Tomb kings are barely punished by the legendary penalties.
    It is known.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    Yes, and imo the solution is to scale the cost of military buildings based on the number of armies and difficulty, since recruitment pools are the primary balancing mechanic for TK.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    I want to see Morathi and Khalida have a hammy acting-off. Franz could come, but this action does not have his consent.

    On Khalida's quest battle, she fucking rolls her r's for like a minute straight

    KetBra on
    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    Corp.ShephardCorp.Shephard Registered User regular
    edited January 2018
    Yeah. I completed my Legendary Khatep Mortal Empire Campaign last night and I did it in 110 turns. I think that's the fastest I have ever completed a campaign in either TW:W game. Archeon didn't even get to show up! Tomb Kings are definitely pretty outrageous. It also helped that Khatep's victory objectives just aren't as ambitious as many others so I was able to beeline them pretty easily.

    Not to say it was disappointing- it was quite fun. The difficulty penalties just aren't really there for them though. Honestly Tomb Kings feel sort of OP outside of that even...!

    Corp.Shephard on
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    SensationalSensational Registered User regular
    It's funny, even their campaign objectives are steamrolly. Vortex rituals are a major penalty in that you have to recall your armies and defend against spawning stacks. Books of nagash on the other hand are a big fat bonus. Which is more fun, but it's a strong contrast.

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    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    The only drawback is that you don't get much of an animation when you get a new book of nagash. It's just the same Liche priests molding in a cave video you saw when you got the first book.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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    EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    I must be tomb kinging wrong. Even with the many armies I never have enough heavy hitters for it to actually matter - I'm up against lizard men at the moment and they just grind through thousands of skeletons to victory.

This discussion has been closed.