The whole cultural differences argument has become farcical at this point.
Let’s grant for the sake of argument that increased gun restrictions won’t work in America for vague nebulous reasons. If you believed that wouldn’t you enact some other drastic reforms to try and stop this shit?
Like if the people saying ‘oh it’s not guns’ were actually trying hard to ban GTA or change the way mental health works I might be inclined to engage with them in good faith. But they’re not because they know that it won’t do anything, BECAUSE ITS ABOUT THE GUNS
What makes Australians so dumb they can't fabricate guns in this obviously easy fashion.
I imagine most people that intent on having a gun for legit purposes here (Australia) would rather spend that time and effort just going through the legal processes (having checks done, getting the relevant licences and so forth) and then just going to a gun store and buying a gun.
Criminal gangs have been found to be making guns here. Although I guess I see the fact criminals are finding it so hard and expensive to get firearms they resort to using something you expect to find in fallout a sign that things are working rather than a problem.
Most criminals in Australia use legal guns bought illegally. Eg, The Lindt Cafe Seige or the Brighton Seige terrorist attacks. Or the everyday gang shootings.
There is a thriving market for fabricated guns but it's far easier to get your hands on an actual gun than it is to find someone who's able to make you one. Roughly 10% of firearms seized by police are homemade. These range from pipe guns to sub machine guns. Most of these are made for gangs.
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Firstly, there are far more guns in private hands in Australia today than there were before our gun control legislation and buyback scheme was introduced in 1996. ~Two decades AFTER gun control was introduced, we have MORE guns in civilian hands.
BUT:
There are strict controls over who can buy guns and ammo (you must have a license, and there are different licenses for different types of guns), there are strict controls over the storage of said guns, and there are strict controls over where you can shoot your guns.
There are places where I feel like our gun control legislation is too strict, and other places where I feel it is not strict enough.
Having said that, I like shooting as a sport (not interested in hunting) and I've shot guns plenty of times. Sometimes at gun clubs, sometimes at a friends property, sometimes in the middle of the bush dozens of kilometres away from the nearest small town.
Most criminals in Australia use legal guns bought illegally. Eg, The Lindt Cafe Seige or the Brighton Seige terrorist attacks. Or the everyday gang shootings.
There is a thriving market for fabricated guns but it's far easier to get your hands on an actual gun than it is to find someone who's able to make you one. Roughly 10% of firearms seized by police are homemade. These range from pipe guns to sub machine guns. Most of these are made for gangs.
Agreeing with knob there will certainly be a market in shop made guns, and it would grow if all guns we're banned tomorrow. But it would still be a drop in the bucket compared to the hoards of legally made and easily bought firearms now.
For prohibition, it is stupid easy to make hooch. Kool aid, yeast, and a bubble valve if I'm being real fancy will make something that will get you drunk safely, if not tasty. Just sugar, water, yeast, and some basic distilling equipment (a pot that leads steam to some tubing coiled to cool the steam, which while not trivial is a shit load easier than a gun) and I'll have you swimming in hooch that may or may not make you go blind depending on my skill.
Bombs are also easier to make than guns, we still regulate the sale and accumulation of their prerequisites to pretty good effect.
I own a semi auto shotty that I'd trade in in a heartbeat for a pump or break action. I got this only because I got a deal, and wanted to shoot skeet. That's the wild thing that happens here. I got the thing that can fire faster than I need, because it was cheaper.
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
Of course you don't kill him. The death penalty is barbaric and shouldn't be used in any modern society.
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
It's very annoying that they're saying "he's 19 but mentally he's a child" when juvenile black kids are tried as adults for much MUCH less horrific crimes than this, too.
Of course you don't kill him. The death penalty is barbaric and shouldn't be used in any modern society.
Since one of the few channels that comes in at work is one that shows a lot of true crime stuff they showed one from Nebraska I remembered when they executed him as Wyoming still had the electric chair and did not use lethal injection. But still had on the books firing squad and hanging and they debated more about hanging than the fact the old time rules for firing squad they quietly updated as it was quite the topic in civics with the foreign exchange students a few were from the former DDR
The problem is parents, not the kids playing them.
Idiots screeching about their precious innocent child playing GTA and seeing the violence and gore, what the fuck did they think was going to be in an R-rated video game about the criminal underworld of a fictional major city? I mean, it's also true that video games don't program children to become violent criminals anyway so the content of the game STILL isn't the problem, but kneejerkers gonna kneejerk.
I don't disagree, but if the parent has to buy the game at least they also have to own that responsibility. When I wanted violent games as a kid, I had to go and ask my mother and she'd go and find out what the fuck it was about first. In the UK it works in exactly the same way as the equivalent of R rated movies.
Then again, does anyone use physical storefronts any more?
As someone who has worked the electronics counter several times over the years, this absolutely doesn't stop anyone and the parents will absolutely yell about you to your manager because you dragged them over there before you'd sell their precious 7 year old an M rated game. You still have to do it, but it doesn't work as a deterrent.
If the plan is that parents will actually look into what their kids are playing because they have to buy it for them, then your plan is flawed.
Unless you make it illegal for parents to not care about their kids media habits.
Forcing children to go through their parents to acquire adult media forces their parents to at least be aware of the purchase because you know, the parent has to make the purchase. You can't legislate away shitty parenting, but you can make it harder for children to circumvent their parents entirely.
Like, I'm not saying this is going to end world hunger and I honestly find the hostile pushback on the very idea that children shouldn't be able to walk into a store and buy GTA V for themselves pretty bizarre.
I'm not saying that the idea of age-gating video games is wrong, I'm saying that your perception that forcing parents to buy the games will make them more engaged than they otherwise would is incorrect. To buy a video game requires no more interaction with the game or knowledge of what it contains than walking by it while it's on the shelf.
I’m going to trust you that said video owns me totally
Or we can just engage with the meat of each other's arguments and not resort to accusing each other of logical fallacies like that actually has some merit on whether the person's conclusion is correct or not.
I think you'll be amazed to the extent to which I'm uninterested in spending my Saturday morning repeating things I've already said on the matter over the last five pages of the thread with someone who has yet to provide me with even a second of thrilling discourse over dozens of attempts. You haven't said anything that blew my monocle off, I'm afraid, and I find the dogged persistence of one or two people that Tube Must Admit That He Has Been Owned On The Subject Of Mandatory Age Limits On Video Games in this, a thread about dead children, pretty perverse.
The Washington County deputies were under investigation in the July 7 death of Eurie Lee Martin, 58, of Milledgeville.
Authorities said he was walking along a rural roadway when the officers shot him with a stun gun multiple times before handcuffing him. They were responding to a report of a suspicious person.
A video of the confrontation showed Martin experiencing physical distress before becoming unresponsive. He died in the front yard of a nearby home.
talking about gun control is a good thing, but it terms of violence committed by the state, this is what cops with "non/less-than-lethal" weapons are doing
I partially wrote a larger statement, but instead I'll spare everyone the time and suggest folk take a serious look at what our culture counts as acceptable violence, or acceptable threats of violence
because it's very much tied into all these shootings
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The Washington County deputies were under investigation in the July 7 death of Eurie Lee Martin, 58, of Milledgeville.
Authorities said he was walking along a rural roadway when the officers shot him with a stun gun multiple times before handcuffing him. They were responding to a report of a suspicious person.
A video of the confrontation showed Martin experiencing physical distress before becoming unresponsive. He died in the front yard of a nearby home.
talking about gun control is a good thing, but it terms of violence committed by the state, this is what cops with "non/less-than-lethal" weapons are doing
I partially wrote a larger statement, but instead I'll spare everyone the time and suggest folk take a serious look at what our culture counts as acceptable violence, or acceptable threats of violence
because it's very much tied into all these shootings
Clint EastwoodMy baby's in there someplaceShe crawled right inRegistered Userregular
I'm not going to link it in here but the president has somehow managed to make this all about poor persecuted him. Probably the most tasteless thing I can imagine. What the fuck
I'm not going to link it in here but the president has somehow managed to make this all about poor persecuted him. Probably the most tasteless thing I can imagine. What the fuck
He visited one family for 3 minutes and theres some question on if they were allowed to leave of their own volition before he got there
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I'm not going to link it in here but the president has somehow managed to make this all about poor persecuted him. Probably the most tasteless thing I can imagine. What the fuck
He visited one family for 3 minutes and theres some question on if they were allowed to leave of their own volition before he got there
He tweeted that the FBI might have been able to preempt this shooting, had they not been pursuing a baseless case about collusion with Russia.
I'm not going to link it in here but the president has somehow managed to make this all about poor persecuted him. Probably the most tasteless thing I can imagine. What the fuck
He visited one family for 3 minutes and theres some question on if they were allowed to leave of their own volition before he got there
He tweeted that the FBI might have been able to preempt this shooting, had they not been pursuing a baseless case about collusion with Russia.
My bad I meant in addition to not knowing how the FBI works he couldn't spend any actual time talking to the survivors.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
I'm not going to link it in here but the president has somehow managed to make this all about poor persecuted him. Probably the most tasteless thing I can imagine. What the fuck
He visited one family for 3 minutes and theres some question on if they were allowed to leave of their own volition before he got there
He tweeted that the FBI might have been able to preempt this shooting, had they not been pursuing a baseless case about collusion with Russia.
My bad I meant in addition to not knowing how the FBI works he couldn't spend any actual time talking to the survivors.
Well yeah. He had a Studio 54-themed party to get to at his club; that clearly takes precedence. Just like Paul Ryan appearing at a Republican Fundraiser the same night in the town of Key Biscayne, about an hour away from Parkland.
If the FBI investigation is fake or baseless, they must be really making a go of it if the entire fucking organisation was so distracted that they couldn't do any other work and missed this.
I don't know what's worse, trump calling the FBI lizard men who are out to get him, or that the media summarises it as "trump slams FBI"
He didn't slam them, or criticise them for their failures. His accusations make no logical sense. They are purile toddler vomit.
Stop making this sound reasonable and normal you assholes!
So, I'm curious on others' thoughts here. Is the best / most likely way to enact gun control to: put the right people in seats of power to force the laws through, or to try to slowly sway the opinions of the public until more of them support it, and then pass a law with support?
I ask because I'm just at a total loss on how to change these peoples' minds - every time I see an argument from a right-wing gun supporter, it's clearly a belief so deeply embedded in their identity that I have no idea how to even crack the surface. I'm also at a total loss on how to force a law through when the NRA and other groups have their claws sunk so deep in our government that even the most minor laws involving gun violence research, gun registries, etc can't be passed.
If a law is forced through, I imagine it's going to be undone by the next opposing administration, and so on and so forth. I feel like the personal identity connection to owning guns that some of these people have is akin to a religion. How do you change the minds of half the nation when they cling so strongly to something?
The public is in favour of gun control already, the problem is that the GOP have a stranglehold on every method of enacting change and the GOP are bought and paid for.
The public is in favour of gun control already, the problem is that the GOP have a stranglehold on every method of enacting change and the GOP are bought and paid for.
Right, so...are we just permanently screwed? I mean how can we realistically change this, as this has been the status quo for so long? This seems like a dead end to me unless something drastic changes.
Yeah, I don't know much about the FBI, but I'm sure it's a big enough organization? Or whatever is the proper term, and those things aren't related, and Trump is a shithead
It's super hard to not feel defeated, I would personally try to get more organized and be into protesting and activism about this kind of thing (especially given my own family's experience with a loved one dying because of how accessible guns are) but I have enough brain problems as is without trying to take on the herculean task of speaking truth to power in the USA.
The public is in favour of gun control already, the problem is that the GOP have a stranglehold on every method of enacting change and the GOP are bought and paid for.
Right, so...are we just permanently screwed? I mean how can we realistically change this, as this has been the status quo for so long? This seems like a dead end to me unless something drastic changes.
Elect Democrats to congress and pressure your Democratic representatives to take action. Some Democrats from hunting and shooting states are still bearish on gun control (Bernie Sanders, notably) but they'll bow to public demand
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Let’s grant for the sake of argument that increased gun restrictions won’t work in America for vague nebulous reasons. If you believed that wouldn’t you enact some other drastic reforms to try and stop this shit?
Like if the people saying ‘oh it’s not guns’ were actually trying hard to ban GTA or change the way mental health works I might be inclined to engage with them in good faith. But they’re not because they know that it won’t do anything, BECAUSE ITS ABOUT THE GUNS
https://medium.com/@alascii
I imagine most people that intent on having a gun for legit purposes here (Australia) would rather spend that time and effort just going through the legal processes (having checks done, getting the relevant licences and so forth) and then just going to a gun store and buying a gun.
Criminal gangs have been found to be making guns here. Although I guess I see the fact criminals are finding it so hard and expensive to get firearms they resort to using something you expect to find in fallout a sign that things are working rather than a problem.
There is a thriving market for fabricated guns but it's far easier to get your hands on an actual gun than it is to find someone who's able to make you one. Roughly 10% of firearms seized by police are homemade. These range from pipe guns to sub machine guns. Most of these are made for gangs.
BUT:
There are strict controls over who can buy guns and ammo (you must have a license, and there are different licenses for different types of guns), there are strict controls over the storage of said guns, and there are strict controls over where you can shoot your guns.
There are places where I feel like our gun control legislation is too strict, and other places where I feel it is not strict enough.
Having said that, I like shooting as a sport (not interested in hunting) and I've shot guns plenty of times. Sometimes at gun clubs, sometimes at a friends property, sometimes in the middle of the bush dozens of kilometres away from the nearest small town.
Agreeing with knob there will certainly be a market in shop made guns, and it would grow if all guns we're banned tomorrow. But it would still be a drop in the bucket compared to the hoards of legally made and easily bought firearms now.
For prohibition, it is stupid easy to make hooch. Kool aid, yeast, and a bubble valve if I'm being real fancy will make something that will get you drunk safely, if not tasty. Just sugar, water, yeast, and some basic distilling equipment (a pot that leads steam to some tubing coiled to cool the steam, which while not trivial is a shit load easier than a gun) and I'll have you swimming in hooch that may or may not make you go blind depending on my skill.
Bombs are also easier to make than guns, we still regulate the sale and accumulation of their prerequisites to pretty good effect.
I own a semi auto shotty that I'd trade in in a heartbeat for a pump or break action. I got this only because I got a deal, and wanted to shoot skeet. That's the wild thing that happens here. I got the thing that can fire faster than I need, because it was cheaper.
It's about the defense of the shooter: whether he should live or he should die
I wonder how many folk are gonna think back on this when they find out I'm autistic
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Since one of the few channels that comes in at work is one that shows a lot of true crime stuff they showed one from Nebraska I remembered when they executed him as Wyoming still had the electric chair and did not use lethal injection. But still had on the books firing squad and hanging and they debated more about hanging than the fact the old time rules for firing squad they quietly updated as it was quite the topic in civics with the foreign exchange students a few were from the former DDR
It is really fucking morbid.
Retailers already have rules in place age gating games above a certain rating. In fact that's what my post was about. The world where you imagine a parental requirement to buy certain games? We're already there, at least to the extent that we're likely to be. The US Supreme Court already ruled it unconstitutional to legislate against violent video games simply because of their violent content. So the likelihood of a state or federal law enforcing the rules already used by retailers is unlikely.
I'm not saying that the idea of age-gating video games is wrong, I'm saying that your perception that forcing parents to buy the games will make them more engaged than they otherwise would is incorrect. To buy a video game requires no more interaction with the game or knowledge of what it contains than walking by it while it's on the shelf.
I have one too!
Or we can just engage with the meat of each other's arguments and not resort to accusing each other of logical fallacies like that actually has some merit on whether the person's conclusion is correct or not.
This will have to suffice, sorry!
talking about gun control is a good thing, but it terms of violence committed by the state, this is what cops with "non/less-than-lethal" weapons are doing
I partially wrote a larger statement, but instead I'll spare everyone the time and suggest folk take a serious look at what our culture counts as acceptable violence, or acceptable threats of violence
because it's very much tied into all these shootings
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Gee, lemme guess the victim's race
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
He visited one family for 3 minutes and theres some question on if they were allowed to leave of their own volition before he got there
He tweeted that the FBI might have been able to preempt this shooting, had they not been pursuing a baseless case about collusion with Russia.
My bad I meant in addition to not knowing how the FBI works he couldn't spend any actual time talking to the survivors.
They've got more important things to do, yanno.
I don't know what's worse, trump calling the FBI lizard men who are out to get him, or that the media summarises it as "trump slams FBI"
He didn't slam them, or criticise them for their failures. His accusations make no logical sense. They are purile toddler vomit.
Stop making this sound reasonable and normal you assholes!
I ask because I'm just at a total loss on how to change these peoples' minds - every time I see an argument from a right-wing gun supporter, it's clearly a belief so deeply embedded in their identity that I have no idea how to even crack the surface. I'm also at a total loss on how to force a law through when the NRA and other groups have their claws sunk so deep in our government that even the most minor laws involving gun violence research, gun registries, etc can't be passed.
If a law is forced through, I imagine it's going to be undone by the next opposing administration, and so on and so forth. I feel like the personal identity connection to owning guns that some of these people have is akin to a religion. How do you change the minds of half the nation when they cling so strongly to something?
It's so depressing.
It's not a ton of Democrats I'll tell you that much.
Right, so...are we just permanently screwed? I mean how can we realistically change this, as this has been the status quo for so long? This seems like a dead end to me unless something drastic changes.
Elect Democrats to congress and pressure your Democratic representatives to take action. Some Democrats from hunting and shooting states are still bearish on gun control (Bernie Sanders, notably) but they'll bow to public demand