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School Shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, FL

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I think the idea that we need cops is at this point almost outdated. I could be easily convinced that we don't need them except in the most extreme circumstances:solving the underlying conditions of crime in the first place would cover 98 percent of the problem.

    "Solving the underlying conditions of crime" is a hell of a proposal to make offhandedly. You've essentially proposed we figure out how to stop people from feeling desperate or bored.

    The responsibilities of a police officer and their relationship with the community they police need to change, but we are nowhere near being able to live in a cop-less society.

    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is poverty.

    Sure, there's white collar crime where some schmuck thinks it's a great idea to commit fraud on a massive scale (i.e Bernie Madoff), but theft, home invasions, carjackings, muggings, these are all crimes perpetrated out of desperation.

    Yes. That's why I listed desperation as a cause of crime.
    Dubh wrote: »
    we actually don't need cops

    they are not the end-all be-all of the law

    they're just so omnipresent in our lives that we assume they're some inherent part of human society

    Alright, I'll ask you this, then: do we need courts?

    Yeah duh not all courts are for criminal convictions

    ok, so what happens if the court decides that a person needs to pay a fine, and they say "nah"

    *sigh*

    You clearly ignored when I said solving the underlying conditions would cover 98 percent of the problem

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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    No, I didn't ignore you--I agree with you that making it so nobody wants to commit crimes would mean no crimes would be committed. Making it so nobody needs to eat would also eliminate hunger.

    l3icwZV.png
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    NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I think the idea that we need cops is at this point almost outdated. I could be easily convinced that we don't need them except in the most extreme circumstances:solving the underlying conditions of crime in the first place would cover 98 percent of the problem.

    "Solving the underlying conditions of crime" is a hell of a proposal to make offhandedly. You've essentially proposed we figure out how to stop people from feeling desperate or bored.

    The responsibilities of a police officer and their relationship with the community they police need to change, but we are nowhere near being able to live in a cop-less society.

    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is poverty.

    Sure, there's white collar crime where some schmuck thinks it's a great idea to commit fraud on a massive scale (i.e Bernie Madoff), but theft, home invasions, carjackings, muggings, these are all crimes perpetrated out of desperation.

    Yes. That's why I listed desperation as a cause of crime.
    Dubh wrote: »
    we actually don't need cops

    they are not the end-all be-all of the law

    they're just so omnipresent in our lives that we assume they're some inherent part of human society

    Alright, I'll ask you this, then: do we need courts?

    Yeah duh not all courts are for criminal convictions

    ok, so what happens if the court decides that a person needs to pay a fine, and they say "nah"

    *sigh*

    You clearly ignored when I said solving the underlying conditions would cover 98 percent of the problem

    Generally police aren't actually there to address underlying issues of crime. Police (not just local police, state and federal law enforcement as well when applicable) exist to enforce the internal sovereignty of a state. States that don't have internal sovereignty are failed states. This doesn't preclude reform (adjusting hiring standards, increasing or decreasing police presence, addressing ethnic enclave enforcement actions that may lead to skewed arrest statistics etc.), but a state without some type of enforcement arm isn't a state, it's just a piece of land where some people live. And at that point there is no reason to even have a state judiciary, legislature, or executive as they have no enforcement capability.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    We could try the Roman vigiles system where cops and firefighters and light riot squad duty was all the same job

    my favourite thing about these guys was that they would start fires, then get into fights with other vigiles over who gets to put it it out, the fights would often go on so long that nobody put the fire out and the building just burned down

    The Romans also invented Fire Insurance, in a way that was only barely not Ankh-Morporkian.

    One of the original Triumvirate made his money by showing up to fires with his own firefighting crew and offering to put out the fire if the owner sold the property to him.

    Crassus was kind of like if Trump wasn't a total shiteating moron

    Hobnail on
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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Machwing wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I think the idea that we need cops is at this point almost outdated. I could be easily convinced that we don't need them except in the most extreme circumstances:solving the underlying conditions of crime in the first place would cover 98 percent of the problem.

    "Solving the underlying conditions of crime" is a hell of a proposal to make offhandedly. You've essentially proposed we figure out how to stop people from feeling desperate or bored.

    The responsibilities of a police officer and their relationship with the community they police need to change, but we are nowhere near being able to live in a cop-less society.

    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is poverty.

    Sure, there's white collar crime where some schmuck thinks it's a great idea to commit fraud on a massive scale (i.e Bernie Madoff), but theft, home invasions, carjackings, muggings, these are all crimes perpetrated out of desperation.

    Yes. That's why I listed desperation as a cause of crime.
    Dubh wrote: »
    we actually don't need cops

    they are not the end-all be-all of the law

    they're just so omnipresent in our lives that we assume they're some inherent part of human society

    Alright, I'll ask you this, then: do we need courts?

    possibly! that also depends what you would define as court! you'd have to ask someone more well-versed in the theory than I am, but I will say that whatever we end up with can't be like the system we have in place

    for a refresher:

    1. the court's inability or unwillingness to punish cops as criminals unless they step ridiculously out of line, or lose the support of other cops (the mythical "good" cop)
    2. the enthusiasm our court system has for imprisoning people of color
    3. legal costs barring poorer folk from being properly represented

    are all easy examples of Bad Shit that obviously needs to change

    Miss me? Find me on:

    Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
    Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I think the idea that we need cops is at this point almost outdated. I could be easily convinced that we don't need them except in the most extreme circumstances:solving the underlying conditions of crime in the first place would cover 98 percent of the problem.

    "Solving the underlying conditions of crime" is a hell of a proposal to make offhandedly. You've essentially proposed we figure out how to stop people from feeling desperate or bored.

    The responsibilities of a police officer and their relationship with the community they police need to change, but we are nowhere near being able to live in a cop-less society.

    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is poverty.

    Sure, there's white collar crime where some schmuck thinks it's a great idea to commit fraud on a massive scale (i.e Bernie Madoff), but theft, home invasions, carjackings, muggings, these are all crimes perpetrated out of desperation.

    Yes. That's why I listed desperation as a cause of crime.
    Dubh wrote: »
    we actually don't need cops

    they are not the end-all be-all of the law

    they're just so omnipresent in our lives that we assume they're some inherent part of human society

    Alright, I'll ask you this, then: do we need courts?

    Yeah duh not all courts are for criminal convictions

    ok, so what happens if the court decides that a person needs to pay a fine, and they say "nah"

    *sigh*

    You clearly ignored when I said solving the underlying conditions would cover 98 percent of the problem

    I'm amazed no one has tried this yet.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    We could try the Roman vigiles system where cops and firefighters and light riot squad duty was all the same job

    my favourite thing about these guys was that they would start fires, then get into fights with other vigiles over who gets to put it it out, the fights would often go on so long that nobody put the fire out and the building just burned down

    The Romans also invented Fire Insurance, in a way that was only barely not Ankh-Morporkian.

    One of the original Triumvirate made his money by showing up to fires with his own firefighting crew and offering to put out the fire if the owner sold the property to him.

    Crassus was kind of like if Trump wasn't a total shiteating moron

    And then went into Turkey and got his entire army killed.

    Crassus is indeed who I was referring to

    Fencingsax on
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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I think the idea that we need cops is at this point almost outdated. I could be easily convinced that we don't need them except in the most extreme circumstances:solving the underlying conditions of crime in the first place would cover 98 percent of the problem.

    "Solving the underlying conditions of crime" is a hell of a proposal to make offhandedly. You've essentially proposed we figure out how to stop people from feeling desperate or bored.

    The responsibilities of a police officer and their relationship with the community they police need to change, but we are nowhere near being able to live in a cop-less society.

    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is poverty.

    Sure, there's white collar crime where some schmuck thinks it's a great idea to commit fraud on a massive scale (i.e Bernie Madoff), but theft, home invasions, carjackings, muggings, these are all crimes perpetrated out of desperation.

    Yes. That's why I listed desperation as a cause of crime.
    Dubh wrote: »
    we actually don't need cops

    they are not the end-all be-all of the law

    they're just so omnipresent in our lives that we assume they're some inherent part of human society

    Alright, I'll ask you this, then: do we need courts?

    Yeah duh not all courts are for criminal convictions

    ok, so what happens if the court decides that a person needs to pay a fine, and they say "nah"

    *sigh*

    You clearly ignored when I said solving the underlying conditions would cover 98 percent of the problem

    I'm amazed no one has tried this yet.

    Yeah you'd think if people actually cared about solving the issue they'd try something different

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    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    R-dem wrote: »
    I mean I know it's going to shock literally no one in this thread, but...

    After 7 long years in the firearms industry, where I interacted with members and representatives of the NRA regularly, as well as gun and ammo maker reps and so on, I can quite safely say that the vast majority only supported 2A in regards to straight cis white dudes. Imagine that!

    Some of the ones that have really stuck in my craw, even after I finally managed to escape that hell (spoilered for serious douchebaggery and potential trigger):
    A customer that couldn't figure out why I refused to help him when he went on a Manning rant in which he specifically and purposely misgendered and deadnamed Chelsea, and then was aghast that "I would sell those (slurs) guns"

    A big chain store manager who was shocked that I would sell firearms to Muslims, oh and speaking of don't forget the store in Florida that wouldn't sell to Muslims after the nightclub shooting

    Reps that openly discussed Democrats being the enemy

    The CEO of a major ammo company slamming environmental laws in front of a cheering crowd of shop owners, culminating in "Lead comes from the ground, how can it hurt anything to put it back in?"

    Like holy shit am I glad I finally got to change careers.

    I worked on the manufacturing end, for a company that makes magazines and sights and such. It was a nightmare.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    Machwing wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I think the idea that we need cops is at this point almost outdated. I could be easily convinced that we don't need them except in the most extreme circumstances:solving the underlying conditions of crime in the first place would cover 98 percent of the problem.

    "Solving the underlying conditions of crime" is a hell of a proposal to make offhandedly. You've essentially proposed we figure out how to stop people from feeling desperate or bored.

    The responsibilities of a police officer and their relationship with the community they police need to change, but we are nowhere near being able to live in a cop-less society.

    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is poverty.

    Sure, there's white collar crime where some schmuck thinks it's a great idea to commit fraud on a massive scale (i.e Bernie Madoff), but theft, home invasions, carjackings, muggings, these are all crimes perpetrated out of desperation.

    Yes. That's why I listed desperation as a cause of crime.
    Machwing wrote: »
    "Solving the underlying conditions of crime" is a hell of a proposal to make offhandedly. You've essentially proposed we figure out how to stop people from feeling desperate or bored.

    We already know, it's called Universal Basic Income.

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    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    https://youtu.be/YjiT1ppXXq4

    Zombie Lenin is on to something I think.

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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Machwing wrote: »
    Machwing wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I think the idea that we need cops is at this point almost outdated. I could be easily convinced that we don't need them except in the most extreme circumstances:solving the underlying conditions of crime in the first place would cover 98 percent of the problem.

    "Solving the underlying conditions of crime" is a hell of a proposal to make offhandedly. You've essentially proposed we figure out how to stop people from feeling desperate or bored.

    The responsibilities of a police officer and their relationship with the community they police need to change, but we are nowhere near being able to live in a cop-less society.

    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is poverty.

    Sure, there's white collar crime where some schmuck thinks it's a great idea to commit fraud on a massive scale (i.e Bernie Madoff), but theft, home invasions, carjackings, muggings, these are all crimes perpetrated out of desperation.

    Yes. That's why I listed desperation as a cause of crime.
    Machwing wrote: »
    "Solving the underlying conditions of crime" is a hell of a proposal to make offhandedly. You've essentially proposed we figure out how to stop people from feeling desperate or bored.

    We already know, it's called Universal Basic Income.

    UBI is necessary and will go a long way towards eliminating the reasons people commit crimes, but there will still be forms of desperation. Emotional desperation (due to trauma, or being marginalized by your community, or what-have-you) will still exist. Material desperation will still exist, because scarcity will still exist.

    Machwing on
    l3icwZV.png
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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    various forms of bigotry will still also exist

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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    also crimes of passion/mental instability.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
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    MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    ‘We don’t need cops, except in extreme situations’


    Clearly someone’s never worked a midnight shift in a coffee shop or convenience store.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    cops do more harm than good

    PNk1Ml4.png
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    ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I think the idea that we need cops is at this point almost outdated. I could be easily convinced that we don't need them except in the most extreme circumstances:solving the underlying conditions of crime in the first place would cover 98 percent of the problem.
    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is poverty.

    Sure, there's white collar crime where some schmuck thinks it's a great idea to commit fraud on a massive scale (i.e Bernie Madoff), but theft, home invasions, carjackings, muggings, these are all crimes perpetrated out of desperation.
    I'm pretty sure the vast majority of daily police activity has more to do with people being assholes (traffic violations, neighbour/domestic disputes, trespass, destruction of property, drunk and disorderly, harassment etc.)

    Of 940k misdemeanor arrestees in California 2005:

    Petty theft, Burglary, Check fraud - 65,811
    Gambling and Prostitution - 14,095
    Drug Offenses and Glue Sniffing - 148,009
    Drunk - 96,801
    Disorderly Conduct, Disturbing the Peace, Trespassing, Malicious Mischief - 58,547
    Liquor Laws - 21,554
    Indecent Exposure, Lewd Conduct - 5,715
    Driving While Intoxicated - 176,384
    Traffic Violations, Hit and Run - 31,298
    Assault and Battery - 87,001
    Weapons - 6,474
    All Other - 227,353

    Like - yes, there is a link between poverty and crime rate. But DUI and Traffic violations alone are three times the arrest rate of the "crimes perpetrated out of desperation" - these aren't because they're too poor to afford an Uber. And, as countless societies have found, poverty is a really hard problem to solve.

    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is assholes. The single biggest driver that society can actually influence (in a very limited way) is poverty, and that's not even getting into "The single biggest cost effective driver we can actually influence in a meaningful way" or "The single biggest driver that wont get you voted out of office".

    The idea that 98% of these crimes would vanish by waving a magic wand and "solving the underlying conditions" to make cops obsolete just seems incredibly out of touch to me.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    It seems like about half of those arrests are indeed for fake crimes, before getting into "all other"

    -Tal on
    PNk1Ml4.png
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    ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    It seems like about half of those arrests are indeed for fake crimes, before getting into "all other"
    Sigh. Yes, police corruption and brutality is a thing, and there are certainly cases of cops pulling in people who don't deserve it or laws which are bullshit or may even change soon (marijuana laws, I'm looking at you).

    But it's good to have someone who can get rid of the irate customer who has been screaming at staff for the last 20 minutes, or break up the domestic violence incident, or sit out the drunk asshole weaving in and out of traffic (with or without a vehicle), or shoo off the teens who think dropping rocks on cars from the overpass is hilarious. Every day, thousands of people are assaulted, have their property damaged or destroyed (not stolen), get abused physically and verbally, are stalked and harassed, are putting themselves and others around them in danger, are preyed on because they are young or vulnerable. These happen pretty much every damn day, and thousands of people are helped because police intervened when those crimes committed.

    Hell, those statistics were misdemeanors only - there are still felonies on top of that, plus all the incidents which never result in arrest (only around 30% of all crimes are "solved").

    We want our criminal justice system to be much, much better than it is. But claiming half of arrests are "fake" is arguing in very bad faith about the statistics - whatever your views on drug laws (which is the most common area for "unwarranted" arrests) they make up only a quarter of the arrests even including public drunkenness. You'd have to have an extraordinary "false" rate of arrest for assault, theft, property damage, hit and run, DUI and indecent exposure, since those alone make up around 400k of the 940k total.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Right, only 400k/940k are for real crimes, that's what I said

    thousands of people are assaulted, have their property damaged or destroyed (not stolen), get abused physically and verbally, are stalked and harassed, are putting themselves and others around them in danger, are preyed on because they are young or vulnerable, by cops

    PNk1Ml4.png
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    It's worth pointing out that the police in the US seem to be notably insane, as far as police forces go

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Solar wrote: »
    It's worth pointing out that the police in the US seem to be notably insane, as far as police forces go

    To be honest most police forces are pretty fucked if you look closer, it's just that they don't make the news as much because they gun down fewer people. Aboriginal people in Australia get treated just as bad by our police as black folks in the USA do, from reports I've read. I daresay minorities in the US and Canada probably aren't as friendly with the police as middle-class white people may be...

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    This is the superintendent of the Broward County school system, as students return to class today.


    We are asking all media to not fly helicopters over Stoneman Douglas HS campus when students return and school is in session, out of respect for the students, teachers and parents who are making this request. Thank you for your consideration at this sensitive time. #MSDStrong

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    cops do more harm than good

    Nobody in this country seems to put any stake into soft power, and its killing our country and our people. By soft power I mean the effect that comes from someone existing in a position and not doing anything with it.
    In the example of cops, it's about the crime reducing effect that comes from policing an area without needing to arrest someone as well. That's soft power. Police presence deters crime, statistically.

    However, the effect of ignoring soft power has had a worse effect within the police. By ignoring soft power they instead focus on their other powers, arrests. Instead of being a passive presence they become an active one and commit themselves to the idea that arresting more people reduces crime. But crime doesn't work that way. More arrests increase the crime statistics and can end up depressing the area, leading to more poverty and less opportunity in the area. By making their job about arrests, they emphasize stopping "criminals", which leads to greater and more deadly confrontations. Because if your job is "stop criminals" and not "protect people" that doesn't lead you to think about de-escalating a situation.

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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    A world without cops and courts would basically be a mad max hellscape in wich the only means by which to redress wrongs is violence.

    Like most modern approaches to policing need to be burnt to the ground and rebuilt from the ground up, but having a system is, I feel, much better than having no enforcement system of any kind.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Couscous on
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    IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know TexasRegistered User regular
    Of COURSE he dragged it back to golf.

    FF XIV - Qih'to Furishu (on Siren), Battle.Net - Ilpala#1975
    Switch - SW-7373-3669-3011
    Fuck Joe Manchin
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    tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    All things that teachers are traditionally called upon to do in a classroom context.

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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    Trump doesn't even visit patients at hospitals for more than ten minutes, he'd never go into an actively dangerous situation.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Can he even run with his bone spurs?

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    And this doesn't cover how fuckin shameful it is to go OH YEAH IF I WAS THERE I WOULD HAVE GONE IN

    Mark Whalberg re: 9/11 eat your heart out

    CYpGAPn.png
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    Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Can he even run with his bone spurs?

    Probably couldnt run without them either

    p0a2ody6sqnt.jpg
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Yeah that is despicable, especially because he absolutely wouldn't

    He's a cowardly worm and we all know it

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    CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    Remember when he turned away from a bleeding man at Mar-A-Lago

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

    c9PXgFo.jpg
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    RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    Archangle wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I think the idea that we need cops is at this point almost outdated. I could be easily convinced that we don't need them except in the most extreme circumstances:solving the underlying conditions of crime in the first place would cover 98 percent of the problem.
    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is poverty.

    Sure, there's white collar crime where some schmuck thinks it's a great idea to commit fraud on a massive scale (i.e Bernie Madoff), but theft, home invasions, carjackings, muggings, these are all crimes perpetrated out of desperation.
    I'm pretty sure the vast majority of daily police activity has more to do with people being assholes (traffic violations, neighbour/domestic disputes, trespass, destruction of property, drunk and disorderly, harassment etc.)

    Of 940k misdemeanor arrestees in California 2005:

    Petty theft, Burglary, Check fraud - 65,811
    Gambling and Prostitution - 14,095
    Drug Offenses and Glue Sniffing - 148,009
    Drunk - 96,801
    Disorderly Conduct, Disturbing the Peace, Trespassing, Malicious Mischief - 58,547
    Liquor Laws - 21,554
    Indecent Exposure, Lewd Conduct - 5,715
    Driving While Intoxicated - 176,384
    Traffic Violations, Hit and Run - 31,298
    Assault and Battery - 87,001
    Weapons - 6,474
    All Other - 227,353

    Like - yes, there is a link between poverty and crime rate. But DUI and Traffic violations alone are three times the arrest rate of the "crimes perpetrated out of desperation" - these aren't because they're too poor to afford an Uber. And, as countless societies have found, poverty is a really hard problem to solve.

    The single biggest driver of criminal activity is assholes. The single biggest driver that society can actually influence (in a very limited way) is poverty, and that's not even getting into "The single biggest cost effective driver we can actually influence in a meaningful way" or "The single biggest driver that wont get you voted out of office".

    The idea that 98% of these crimes would vanish by waving a magic wand and "solving the underlying conditions" to make cops obsolete just seems incredibly out of touch to me.

    Jeff Bezos, an american, has a net worth of over 100 billion dollars. If that wealth was redistributed, how many people in the USA would be living in impoverished conditions? A lot less.

    Pretty sure if we dismantled capitalism we could eliminate poverty, since that's the major driver of poverty in 1st world countries. UBI is a great first step, and laws around grocery stores throwing out/spoiling food deliberately like they have in France go an immensely long way towards solving hunger.

    Just because the current system of government refuses to implement incredibly basic solutions to assist the majority of struggling citizens, especially minorities, doesn't mean that things can't be changed by looking outside the D/R box that is full of absolute trash people who absolutely do not represent the people they claim to.

    Rainfall on
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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Remember when he turned away from a bleeding man at Mar-A-Lago

    remember when a guy rushed him on stage and he cowered into his podium.

    Dude's a total chump.

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    NeoTomaNeoToma Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Oh, right. Trump has creepy beliefs about genetics.

    Of COURSE he does

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    edited February 2018
    I goddamn guarantee there are people, lots of em, who are purchasing firearms and ammunition with a head full of the same puerile idiot machismo fantasy that the POTUS expressed in those tweets and is probably contemplating right now

    Hobnail on
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    DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    It's worth pointing out that the police in the US seem to be notably insane, as far as police forces go

    To be honest most police forces are pretty fucked if you look closer, it's just that they don't make the news as much because they gun down fewer people. Aboriginal people in Australia get treated just as bad by our police as black folks in the USA do, from reports I've read. I daresay minorities in the US and Canada probably aren't as friendly with the police as middle-class white people may be...

    the briefest of google searches indicate that police abuse is pretty common all throughout the West, as is the presence of white supremacy and both the legacy and continuance of colonialism

    like, why the fuck do you think I don't take a single white dude as fact when they say the police are fine, no matter where or who they are

    what could POSSIBLY be the reason for that


    my problem is with the job itself, as easily abusable as it seems to be no matter where in the West you live at

    history doesn't magically disappear when you enter OR leave the US

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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Yes, but again, it's either some kind of policing, or straight up mad max rules...you can not trust me because I'm white, but a complete lack of a system means that you got nothing to fall back to except personal violence. Who's to stop someone from just straight murdering everyone that even slightly pisses them off?

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