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The Mueller Investigation Thread - in which Rudy Guiliani talks about obstruction

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    LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Ardol wrote: »

    CNN reporter

    Remember when Sessions claimed he was leading the DoJ with integrity and honor? He's as cowardly as his boss when it comes to firing people it seems.

    Has anyone actually been fires to their face yet?

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    ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    So if McCabe is right, and he was fired to obstruct Mueller's investigation, this should lead to Sessions being investigated for obstruction of justice.

    I suppose he will have to double recuse himself or something.

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    TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    Pretty amazing that they fired McCabe for lacking candor with the press but still managed to leak it to Fox News.

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    Anarchy Rules!Anarchy Rules! Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Perhaps your labour laws aren't as robust as in Europe, but isn't it illegal to fire someone just before retirement?

    Anarchy Rules! on
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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    They fired McCabe because he was a convenient scapegoat for their base. Because he's married to a Democrat, and thus a traitor.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    They fired McCabe because he was a convenient scapegoat for their base. Because he's married to a Democrat, and thus a traitor.

    I feel like middle aged white men are the people who would be most disturbed by the spitefulness of this move. You don't fuck with a man's pension.

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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Zek wrote: »
    They fired McCabe because he was a convenient scapegoat for their base. Because he's married to a Democrat, and thus a traitor.

    I feel like middle aged white men are the people who would be most disturbed by the spitefulness of this move. You don't fuck with a man's pension.

    Most non-state non-union jobs lost their pensions ages ago.

    I don't think this hits his base as hard as it would have a few decades ago.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    They fired McCabe because he was a convenient scapegoat for their base. Because he's married to a Democrat, and thus a traitor.

    And they couldn't find someone high enough who was a Democrat because CIA.

    Couscous on
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Perhaps your labour laws aren't as robust as in Europe, but isn't it illegal to fire someone just before retirement?

    Without cause, yes

    But they can pretty much make up their own cause since it’s not like he’s got union protection.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Trump really making it obvious why McCabe was fired and justifying further purges:

    Couscous on
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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Trump really making it obvious why McCabe was fired and justifying further purges:


    Corruption in the government?

    Don't they have laws against that?

    Surely if someone from the government is corrupt, they will be charged as such?!

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    that tweet doesn't even make sense

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    that tweet doesn't even make sense

    Projection.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Like I honest to god don't know what concept he is trying to communicate with that choirboy sentence

    KetBra on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I can’t help but think that the people who are going to take this news the worst out of everyone are the hard working men and women of the FBI. There’s no way the career employees there aren’t super pissed about this.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    All they had to do was wait for two days and he would have been out of their hair and wouldn't have made any public statements against them.

    He really wouldn't have been out of their hair. He's still going to be a factor in the ongoing investigation, just not actively.

    Them doing this seems specifically because he is going to be a thorn in their side for some time, so they want to do what they can, even with the flimsy "justification", while they can, to undermine his credibility when they need it to be at least plausibly (to their base) questionable..

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    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    Like I honest to got don't know what concept he is trying to communicate with that choirboy sentence

    He heard it once from someone who heard it in a movie. It sounds tough.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    Like I honest to got don't know what concept he is trying to communicate with that choirboy sentence

    He's implying that McCabe was dirty or corrupt and that Comey was even dirtier, making McCabe look like an innocent choirboy in comparison.

    A combination of projection and Trump throwing whatever shit at their reputation that he can think of.

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    HybridHybrid South AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I don't actually know that much about McCabe in this whole thing. how is he going to be a thorn in their side? just because they put him in charge and he hasn't shut down investigations against them or something?

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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    I knew SOMETHING was going to happen today with how much NPR was focusing on Sarah Huckabee-Sanders talking about how they were going to calm down with the firings and shiftings around of people.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    They fired McCabe because he was a convenient scapegoat for their base. Because he's married to a Democrat, and thus a traitor.

    I feel like middle aged white men are the people who would be most disturbed by the spitefulness of this move. You don't fuck with a man's pension.

    Most non-state non-union jobs lost their pensions ages ago.

    I don't think this hits his base as hard as it would have a few decades ago.

    A few decades ago, the base was busy driving out people who were at all sympathetic to Russia.

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    spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Hybrid wrote: »
    I don't actually know that much about McCabe in this whole thing. how is he going to be a thorn in their side? just because they put him in charge and he hasn't shut down investigations against them or something?

    For one thing, he will be corroborating Comey's testimony. I'm guessing he was also involved in vetting the Steele dossier, and probably knew of Steele even if they didn't know each other personally, given that their professional area of expertise intersects.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    It would be weird if McCabe did not have a ton of potentially valuable notes.

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    OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Trump really making it obvious why McCabe was fired and justifying further purges:


    I hope McCabe fucking sues

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    All they had to do was wait for two days and he would have been out of their hair and wouldn't have made any public statements against them.

    Yes but then they would not have had their ammunition.

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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    I still don't get how this gives them "ammunition".

    Or rather, I know how they hope it shakes out but I can't believe even really die hard Republicans are going to go for it

    "He's only trying to bring Trump down because he got fired!"

    "Why did he get fired?"

    "Uhhhhhhhh.....HILLARY CLINTON"

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    I still don't get how this gives them "ammunition".

    Or rather, I know how they hope it shakes out but I can't believe even really die hard Republicans are going to go for it

    "He's only trying to bring Trump down because he got fired!"

    "Why did he get fired?"

    "Uhhhhhhhh.....HILLARY CLINTON"
    Also, you have to take into account how this affects morale in the intelligence community. They've already had to deal with a year plus about their incompetency. But now Trump's targetting the retirement benefits of career agents.

    I can't think of a more dangerous division of the US government that you'ld want to piss off in a fit of pique.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Arch wrote: »
    I still don't get how this gives them "ammunition".

    Or rather, I know how they hope it shakes out but I can't believe even really die hard Republicans are going to go for it

    "He's only trying to bring Trump down because he got fired!"

    "Why did he get fired?"

    "Uhhhhhhhh.....HILLARY CLINTON"

    The argument is that they were all pro-Clinton toadies, as evidenced by the fact that Clinton is not in prison. Also: something something illegal Trump wiretaps.

    At least that's what's going around the conservative pundit circuits.

    So yeah, it's dumb as balls.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited March 2018
    Arch wrote: »
    I still don't get how this gives them "ammunition".

    Or rather, I know how they hope it shakes out but I can't believe even really die hard Republicans are going to go for it

    "He's only trying to bring Trump down because he got fired!"

    "Why did he get fired?"

    "Uhhhhhhhh.....HILLARY CLINTON"

    It’s pretty simple. “He’s fired because he lied to internal investigators.” Which makes him a liar, and why believe anything he says? And now he’s trying to get back at Trump.

    Alternately, Sessions got a look at the internal OIG report and saw an easy way to score some points with Trump by immediately ramping it up to a firing.

    In either case it’s Sessions who’s behind it, so I’m assuming some kind of calculated malice rather than mindless flailing.

    Elki on
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    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    The thing that scares me about all this is the talking point that there might be a full Intelligence Community purge of the 'disloyal'.

    Because once he has an intelligence agency willing to follow his orders, no matter what, that's things get real, real dark.

    I need some Hopium here guys and gals.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2018
    Regardless of their methods, careerists in the IC take their oath of office pretty fucking seriously.

    Fencingsax on
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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Arch wrote: »
    I still don't get how this gives them "ammunition".

    Or rather, I know how they hope it shakes out but I can't believe even really die hard Republicans are going to go for it

    "He's only trying to bring Trump down because he got fired!"

    "Why did he get fired?"

    "Uhhhhhhhh.....HILLARY CLINTON"

    Because juries are not necessarily so smart. It’s a lot easier to impugn “fired FBI man” than “retired Republican FBI man”

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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    The thing that scares me about all this is the talking point that there might be a full Intelligence Community purge of the 'disloyal'.

    Because once he has an intelligence agency willing to follow his orders, no matter what, that's things get real, real dark.

    I need some Hopium here guys and gals.

    You might be able to hire some idiot talking head from Fox or rich bastard from Wall Street and put them into an appointed leadership position, but you can't do that in an entire organization of thousands of members who require very specialized skillsets. The FBI/CIA/etc require skills way more complex's than ICE's 'bust down a door and arrest all the brown people', so the only way to really take complete control of an IC agency is if there's already a sizable faction in your camp.

    And that may have been true before the election. But I don't see how this won't drive them, and especially the FBI, into a complete rage, and Trump is insane if he actually believes what he tweeted about the rank and file backing him up. At this point a 'purge' of anything more than the top couple guys would require disbanding the entire agency.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    The McCabe statement is insane. Any rational outside observer could tell that Trump was up to all sorts of shady things to undermine the Mueller investigation, but to see it in black and white from the head of the FBI is just chilling.

    It feels like election night all over again. It's sobering and terrifying and my body is physically reacting to how dark it all is for our country. We live in a time where no hyperbole can properly express how nefarious this stuff is. Principles don't exist for so many people in charge of our nation -- nothing is sacred in their desperate grasp to cling to the power that they have.

    I just fear for all of the damage that continues to be wrought while this is happening. There are no norms or even the faintest pretense of principles. It's all so brazen and I can't believe we live in such dark times; that so many people will be fine with this and continue their mindless support of the perpetrators of these crimes.

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    VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    26 hours from retirement. He probably wasn't even going to be coming in to work today. I imagine they'd have had a going away party on Friday afternoon and he'd literally been out the door and back at home permanently by the time he was told not to come back to work.

    And what is the chain of succession like now. Does the person set to replace him just jump in a day early? Does Trump get a say in appointing a new replacement now? Are we going to be stuck in a period where the country is effectively running without any leadership at the FBI, CIA and State Department simultaneously?

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    ArdolArdol Registered User regular
    Veagle wrote: »
    26 hours from retirement. He probably wasn't even going to be coming in to work today. I imagine they'd have had a going away party on Friday afternoon and he'd literally been out the door and back at home permanently by the time he was told not to come back to work.

    And what is the chain of succession like now. Does the person set to replace him just jump in a day early? Does Trump get a say in appointing a new replacement now? Are we going to be stuck in a period where the country is effectively running without any leadership at the FBI, CIA and State Department simultaneously?

    I believe he'd been on leave for a while, a month or two maybe? probably since Trump started tweeting about him in December or something. idk time doesn't mean anything anymore.

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    DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited March 2018
    McCabe was second at the FBI. Head is Christopher wray. McCabe has pretty much been forced to step down since round the start of the whole memo nonsense. Unrelated to the memo, but that was the timing of it.

    This move has little to no impact on the actual FBI since McCabe was already side lined

    All it does is discreet McCabe.

    Disrupter on
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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    yeah, my recollection was that he was taking all of his PTO up to the point he could retire, and then retiring.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    yeah, my recollection was that he was taking all of his PTO up to the point he could retire, and then retiring.

    Which is SOP, btw

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    lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    yeah, my recollection was that he was taking all of his PTO up to the point he could retire, and then retiring.

    Which is SOP, btw

    yeah, I figured as much.


    christ was a dick move.

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