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Penny Arcade - Comic - A New Record

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited March 30 in The Penny Arcade Hub

imagePenny Arcade - Comic - A New Record

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here


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  • BlackDoveBlackDove Registered User regular
    For context:




    I have seen this happen before to a few others streamers. He wasn't even trying to say the word; it's a mishmash of getting tongue-tied to say something else, but also, given the fact he's an avid rap song listener (the word being prolifically used there), it's probably on his mind at some level.

    I can't hear him actually say the word in that clip though. Can any of you?

    forty
  • Skull2185Skull2185 Mr. Steal yo' heart Registered User regular
    This is a rough situation. He dropped a... fuck, I don't even know what to call it, a "soft N"(?) while improvising rap lyrics. Probably not a word he should be using, but I also feel like there was definitely no racist or malicious intent there. It certainly shouldn't derail his streaming career, IMO.

    zepherin
  • Jacob SingerJacob Singer Registered User regular
    I know there's a certain group of gamers that usually leap to the defense of online racists, spouting nonsense about "snowflake SJWs ruin everything" blergh blergh blergh, but I honestly don't hear anything bad in that posted video excerpt.

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  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    That's certainly not what I expected, given the comic/news post.

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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Jerry or Mike referencing their own past controversies regarding statements they have uttered might have helped the strip or news post stick the landing.

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  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    Yeah. It would be totally different if he were actually using it as an insult where it could hint at hidden prejudices, or it was part of a repeated pattern, but as it was it comes off as mostly just weird.

    I mean, I still think it was wrong to say it and I'm glad he apologized for it... but sometimes a mistake really is just a mistake.

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  • NarcissistNarcissist Registered User new member
    Oh but they wouldn't dare go after a BLACK person for saying the N word, that'd be RACIST.

    Xeddicus
  • NamrokNamrok Herndon, VARegistered User regular
    I wonder if we're reaching a cultural saturation of the N-word where it's just...

    I mean, I know I'm not supposed to say "Fuck" around children, or at church, and probably not at work. But our culture is insanely saturated in uses of the word. Negative, positive, as punctuation. So mistakes happen. Nobody takes it be a mark on my characters depending on context and brazenness.

    Likewise, I know I'm not supposed to say the N-word. And uses of it haven't quite reached the cultural saturation of "Fuck". But look, you use the words you hear when your brain finds itself grasping at straws. Now that might be a word you hear a lot because you really hate black people, or it might be a word you hear a lot because you really love black music and black comedy.

    I donno. None of this really applies to me. I pretty much only hear the word when someone has gotten in trouble for saying the word. But then again I'm old, and my taste in media is so very white. And old. Can't forget the part about getting old.

    RatherDashing89
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    The comic seems to be coming down on Gabe's side. I'd say Tycho is definitely being presented as the unreasonable one.

    As far as the actual whatever, I could see perfectly reasonable people on both sides. On one side, people make mistakes. On the other side, maybe this language and racially divisive stuff in general is way too prolific on twitch so people should be extra careful. On the first hand again, if the word is in your head, you'll say it by mistake. On the second hand again, maybe watch what you listen to so you don't get that word in your head in the first place? Back on hand one, we as a culture seem to have accepted the word's use in rap so that might nullify my last point. And finally on hand two, twitch streamers should probably not necessarily be held to the exact same standard as rap singers for a bunch of reasons involving a debate I am absolutely unqualified to engage in.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Narcissist wrote: »
    Oh but they wouldn't dare go after a BLACK person for saying the N word, that'd be RACIST.

    This is wildly facile.

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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    The comic seems to be coming down on Gabe's side. I'd say Tycho is definitely being presented as the unreasonable one.

    I don't feel qualified to comment on the Ninja issue itself in too much depth, but I definitely feel the opposite re:this strip. I feel like both Gabe and Tycho's points are accurate -- you can assume that if someone is subjected to psychological pressure like being publicly, remotely observed and expected to perform for like 10 hours a day, eventually they are going to do or say something fucked up in some way.

    ...but they're not gonna accidentally advocate for a Final Solution, or go on a racist rant, or talk about how they want to fuck children.

    There are limits to Tycho's original point, and Gabe points them out. Then, Tycho points out the limits to Gabe's counterpoint.

    I don't really know or care how bad Ninja's thing rates on whatever scale we should be using for these things, that's not my area.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Personally I fall on the tycho argument. I'd say something stupidly awful, but nothing approaching racism. And using the n word as a white person is a facet of racism. Its not a word you can say, nor should you want to say, nor should you justify your usage of.

    In that I'm kind of bristly at Ninja's nonapology. "I think this is a misunderstanding" bad move that's divorcing responsibility from your action. I know I've used similar reasoning to try and mitigate my own shitty behavior.

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  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    The comic seems to be coming down on Gabe's side. I'd say Tycho is definitely being presented as the unreasonable one.

    I don't feel qualified to comment on the Ninja issue itself in too much depth, but I definitely feel the opposite re:this strip.

    You might be right. I was just assuming that Tycho was being presented as unreasonable because of him taking any kind of high ground when it's fairly well established that he's a comically evil misanthrope who regularly talks about wanting to end the world. I can't remember whether he's killed Gabe more times than Gabe has killed him, though.
    Preacher wrote: »
    In that I'm kind of bristly at Ninja's nonapology. "I think this is a misunderstanding" bad move that's divorcing responsibility from your action. I know I've used similar reasoning to try and mitigate my own shitty behavior.

    I mean, technically as long as his intention was not to express hatred toward black people, it's a misunderstanding. It's just that every miscommunication is either the fault of the speaker, the listener, or both. In this case it's his fault. And his statement seems to me to be admitting that.

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  • gwerangweran Registered User new member
    The phrase Twitchchatz Haderach is genius

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  • ZomagicZomagic Registered User regular
    edited March 30
    Huh, after listening to the clip, I just wanted to point somethin' out:

    Racism is the attempt to lessen another human being (or beings) based on their race.

    ...I don't feel like that's what was happening here, but there are a lot of people in the world who want something to be angry about like, all the time. So of COURSE they're gonna latch onto this and dry hump it into the ground.

    Zomagic on
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  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    edited March 31
    It's really a silly circumstance. A word is taboo for a bunch of people to say. But it's acceptable for use in a huge amount of pop culture and music. So we can listen to and enjoy said music and media, but we must not repeat it. Occasionally it slips out because of course it does.

    About as much a non-issue as any issue can be.

    Frankiedarling on
  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    Zomagic wrote: »
    Huh, after listening to the clip, I just wanted to point somethin' out:

    Racism is the attempt to lessen another human being (or beings) based on their race.

    ...I don't feel like that's what was happening here, but there are a lot of people in the world who want something to be angry about like, all the time. So of COURSE they're gonna latch onto this and dry hump it into the ground.

    I would disagree with this definition of racism pretty strongly.

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  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    I mean that might not have been the intent but that might have been the impact to some.

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  • DelzhandDelzhand Noxalas! Registered User regular
    It’s not worth using; the handle is the blade.

    I love this metaphor.

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  • jlbjlb Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    ...but they're not gonna accidentally advocate for a Final Solution, or go on a racist rant, or talk about how they want to fuck children.

    This is it exactly. If you say you said something like that by accident, what you mean is you said it ON CAMERA by accident.

    H3Knucklescursedking
  • SadgasmSadgasm Deluded doodler A cold placeRegistered User regular
    jlb wrote: »
    WACriminal wrote: »
    ...but they're not gonna accidentally advocate for a Final Solution, or go on a racist rant, or talk about how they want to fuck children.

    This is it exactly. If you say you said something like that by accident, what you mean is you said it ON CAMERA by accident.

    Remember that whole Mel Gibson DUI thing where he yelled about Jews like 10 years ago? Same thing. They're not sorry about what they said, they're sorry that they got CAUGHT. Plenty of media people are under constant scrutiny, yet somehow manages to make it through the day without yelling racial slurs, it just seems like it's not that difficult.

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  • Huttj509Huttj509 Registered User regular
    Note that the link to ninja's apology tweet by Blackdove is the first of 4 parts of his apology. I thought it was a pretty solid statement.




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  • DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    With the all present internet dementia, this is forgotten in within 2 days. Plus, twitter is an awful medium to comunicate complex matters like this.

  • InvertinInvertin Registered User regular
    Normally I'm hardline "that word doesn't just slip out, Pewdiepie" but between getting tongue-tied, and the fact that his apology is one of the best post-n-word apologies I've seen on the internet, yeah I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. At least until he says it again, then all bets are off.

    I mean, I also don't really care much about Ninja so I guess it's irrelevant but that's where I'm standing.

    Twenty Sided
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I dunno it's full of weasel wording to my taste.
    I apologize for offending anyone
    even if it gets used a lot in music and elsewhere
    So I apologize to anyone who might feel hurt

    These are poor statements he's not sorry for what he said he's sorry for the offense it caused and there's a difference there. An actual apology would not put qualifiers like the usage of the word or how people might be offended. This is a classic non apology "I'm sorry you misinterpreted my racist comment as racism, I promise to hide it better".

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  • FuzFuz Registered User regular
    Funny how a word has SO MUCH POWER over american people's lifes.

    FrankiedarlingPhaserlight
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Its not just a word, its the culture that surrounds it. Its police killing black people for the crime of being black and getting away with it, that's the nword. Its a president invoking racial dog whistles to keep whites in power that's the nword. Its the houston police department perp walking Micheal Bennett because he opposes police killing black people that's the n word.

    The nword is everywhere in america spoken and unspoken, and its super easy for people who don't live with it everyday to go "its just a word." To you it is, to other people in america its a reminder that you are and always will be the nword and you better not forget it.

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  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Its not just a word, its the culture that surrounds it. Its police killing black people for the crime of being black and getting away with it, that's the nword. Its a president invoking racial dog whistles to keep whites in power that's the nword. Its the houston police department perp walking Micheal Bennett because he opposes police killing black people that's the n word.

    The nword is everywhere in america spoken and unspoken, and its super easy for people who don't live with it everyday to go "its just a word." To you it is, to other people in america its a reminder that you are and always will be the nword and you better not forget it.

    At this point it's more like a fantasy-style word of power than it is anything else. At a certain point we should treat it like anything else, like something that can be spoken with malice, or spoken in error, or by mistake or simply as a misguided attempt at popular culture. All the above should elicit different responses. It is not a curse, it has no power than what we give it, intent and usage matters.

  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    If you believe him when he says that he got tongue-tied and wasn't even trying to say it -- which I do -- then all attempts to dissect the sincerity of his apology seem rather pointless.

    Some people are trying to decide if his apology was made because he was genuinely sorry or if he was "sorry because he got caught." I think, in this particular situation, it is neither. It's probably more of an "I'm sorry that society -- and the internet in particular -- has become so insane that I have to make an apology for a word that I wasn't even trying to say, and really didn't say since it was a mashup of other tongue-tied words, merely to keep people who are no saints themselves from destroying my life and my current livelihood just because they think they are the ones who are perfect enough to qualify for the job of teaching me a lesson" apology.

    How's that for a complicated underlying apology message. :p

    FrankiedarlingNamrok
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Its not just a word, its the culture that surrounds it. Its police killing black people for the crime of being black and getting away with it, that's the nword. Its a president invoking racial dog whistles to keep whites in power that's the nword. Its the houston police department perp walking Micheal Bennett because he opposes police killing black people that's the n word.

    The nword is everywhere in america spoken and unspoken, and its super easy for people who don't live with it everyday to go "its just a word." To you it is, to other people in america its a reminder that you are and always will be the nword and you better not forget it.

    Genuine question. Do you think that Ninja believes black people are inferior and better not forget it? Would that thought have to be underlying in his mind in order for him to use the word while singing a rap song, which I presume contained the word in its original version?

  • InvertinInvertin Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    These are poor statements he's not sorry for what he said he's sorry for the offense it caused and there's a difference there. An actual apology would not put qualifiers like the usage of the word or how people might be offended. This is a classic non apology "I'm sorry you misinterpreted my racist comment as racism, I promise to hide it better".


    Hm. You've got a point, I didn't read into the apology too much.
    I guess I still mostly don't care. At least with pewdiepie it felt like vindication because I hated the guy, but Ninja is just kinda... there. I guess.

  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Its not just a word, its the culture that surrounds it. Its police killing black people for the crime of being black and getting away with it, that's the nword. Its a president invoking racial dog whistles to keep whites in power that's the nword. Its the houston police department perp walking Micheal Bennett because he opposes police killing black people that's the n word.

    The nword is everywhere in america spoken and unspoken, and its super easy for people who don't live with it everyday to go "its just a word." To you it is, to other people in america its a reminder that you are and always will be the nword and you better not forget it.

    Genuine question. Do you think that Ninja believes black people are inferior and better not forget it? Would that thought have to be underlying in his mind in order for him to use the word while singing a rap song, which I presume contained the word in its original version?

    The song did not contain the word originally at that point, to be clear. He either got words mixed up or ad-libbed it in.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Its not just a word, its the culture that surrounds it. Its police killing black people for the crime of being black and getting away with it, that's the nword. Its a president invoking racial dog whistles to keep whites in power that's the nword. Its the houston police department perp walking Micheal Bennett because he opposes police killing black people that's the n word.

    The nword is everywhere in america spoken and unspoken, and its super easy for people who don't live with it everyday to go "its just a word." To you it is, to other people in america its a reminder that you are and always will be the nword and you better not forget it.

    Genuine question. Do you think that Ninja believes black people are inferior and better not forget it? Would that thought have to be underlying in his mind in order for him to use the word while singing a rap song, which I presume contained the word in its original version?

    In the rap song he was singing that word is not in there. And if in his mind he thinks all rap songs contain the n word that's definitely prejudice bordering on racism. I mean I've sung along to plenty of songs I don't randomly insert slurs to them.

    So he might not be racist, but he should maybe think how when he gets "tongue tied" he drops an n bomb. Similar to pewdie. And it is telling people are willing to give Ninja benefit of the doubt because he's well liked. Where as with Pewdie it was just confirmation "yeah he's a garbage person"

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  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'd say that makes a significant difference.

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Fuz wrote: »
    Funny how a word has SO MUCH POWER over american people's lifes.

    It's funny how America is systematically racist and has never got to grips with it's slave owning origins.

    Oh wait, I don't mean funny. I mean something else.

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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Walla Walla, WARegistered User regular
    I dunno, I guess it might just be my white privilege, but it doesn't really seem like a big deal to me. He flubbed a song lyric, he wasn't attacking anyone verbally or anything.

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Its not just a word, its the culture that surrounds it. Its police killing black people for the crime of being black and getting away with it, that's the nword. Its a president invoking racial dog whistles to keep whites in power that's the nword. Its the houston police department perp walking Micheal Bennett because he opposes police killing black people that's the n word.

    The nword is everywhere in america spoken and unspoken, and its super easy for people who don't live with it everyday to go "its just a word." To you it is, to other people in america its a reminder that you are and always will be the nword and you better not forget it.

    Genuine question. Do you think that Ninja believes black people are inferior and better not forget it? Would that thought have to be underlying in his mind in order for him to use the word while singing a rap song, which I presume contained the word in its original version?

    In the rap song he was singing that word is not in there. And if in his mind he thinks all rap songs contain the n word that's definitely prejudice bordering on racism. I mean I've sung along to plenty of songs I don't randomly insert slurs to them.

    So he might not be racist, but he should maybe think how when he gets "tongue tied" he drops an n bomb. Similar to pewdie. And it is telling people are willing to give Ninja benefit of the doubt because he's well liked. Where as with Pewdie it was just confirmation "yeah he's a garbage person"

    That particular song doesn't have the word, but it kind of rhymes there. It is not racist to note that a statistically significant number of rap songs contain the word, often multiple times. I think this would be a MUCH bigger deal if he got angry at someone in the match and then described them in this way. Guessing at a song lyric and turning out to be incorrect is like... it's hard to think of a less strong version of this "crime." For all the people who would say "I WOULD NEVER EVER say THAT word" ok... how often do you rap, live on camera? That's kind of like saying you would never be mean to a child if your job doesn't involve interacting with children. It's a lot easier to avoid doing something you would never be in the setting to do in the first place. If he says it again in a different context or makes "jokes", I'm sure we can go over this again and try to wreck him then.

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Its not just a word, its the culture that surrounds it. Its police killing black people for the crime of being black and getting away with it, that's the nword. Its a president invoking racial dog whistles to keep whites in power that's the nword. Its the houston police department perp walking Micheal Bennett because he opposes police killing black people that's the n word.

    The nword is everywhere in america spoken and unspoken, and its super easy for people who don't live with it everyday to go "its just a word." To you it is, to other people in america its a reminder that you are and always will be the nword and you better not forget it.

    At this point it's more like a fantasy-style word of power than it is anything else. At a certain point we should treat it like anything else, like something that can be spoken with malice, or spoken in error, or by mistake or simply as a misguided attempt at popular culture. All the above should elicit different responses. It is not a curse, it has no power than what we give it, intent and usage matters.
    You are describing a perfect world, free from the burden of history. That is the fantasy world. Unfortunately, we live in a reality where the N-word is still being used in many parts of the US to make people feel sub-human. I long for that perfect world, that fantasy. But change is slow (it always is), and we live in this one, this world, in the present.

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  • dennisdennis Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I dunno it's full of weasel wording to my taste.

    > I apologize for offending anyone

    I have to air one small quibble with you on this one. "I'm sorry for anyone who took offense" is a weasel wording. "I'm sorry for offending" is not. It actively takes responsibility for the person giving offense, rather than blaming it on the person who took offense.

    fortyChiselphane
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    Fuz wrote: »
    Funny how a word has SO MUCH POWER over american people's lifes.
    It's not "a word" any more than me hacking your bank account and changing your balance to zero is "a number." I mean yes technically it's a word and technically your bank account is just a number, but your life would be fucking ruined if I took all your money, wouldn't it? So what you're saying is facile. If you want to make some sort of more substantive point, about how it's totally okay for white people to go around dropping the n bomb, then go right ahead, but good fucking luck. That's a tough road to hoe.

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