{Detroit} What Do People Think We Should Expect?

trevorhpaul

I played the demo at PAX East and was intrigued. A friend explained it was made by the same person who made Heavy Rain (which I did not play) and I'm curious who knows more about it. I wasn't really interested when I thought it was going to be an action/adventure game, but now that I played the demo I think I'd really get into it if the overarching story was strong. The demo of negotiating someone down from a hostage situation felt less like playing a TellTale game (a playable story) and one with the potential for more agency for the player. Anyone know anything more? All insights appreciated.

Dark Raven X

If it's anything like previous Quantic Dream games, it will have an incredible hook that wanders off into the weeds before introducing the ghost of the first robot slave who was decommissioned as part of a Mayan prophecy. There will be 3+ shower scenes and 1+ attempted rapes.

It'll also be a wild ride. Everything they've put out so far has been super fun to play with friends. Not so much alone. I'd recommend Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy if you're unfamiliar. It goes so hard off the rails, it's incredible. It lands on new rails and then goes off of those too.

PiptheFair

a dark short-haired attractive woman will take a shower, have sex with the protagonist, be threatened with sexual violence

Big Classy

I really enjoyed Beyond Two Souls so I'm excited for what this turns out to be.

korodullin

A batshit insane plot and a fantastic Super Best Friends LP.

EspantaPajaro

Hilarity and French cinema weirdness.

cB557

T-Danger

Another story about human-like robots who we're supposed to feel sorry for because they're used for manual labour and mistreated by their owners, (even though it makes no sense for these robots to be so life-like and emotive when they're being mass produced and sold for no other reason than to act as servants) which has been done before in Blade Runner and dozens of different shows and movies much better.

cloudeagle

Individual scenes that are really compelling mashed together in a plot that makes zero sense because David Cage refuses to let anyone make minor edits to his work.

Also the same "can this creation be human? What does it say about humanity?" stuff that's been going on in countless works since Frankenstein, the very first sci-fi novel, only without anything new or interesting to say because Cage will insist he's the very first person to do this kind of thing.

Seriously, the "become human" subtitle is so freaking trite and unaware.

Dac

T-Danger wrote: »

Another story about human-like robots who we're supposed to feel sorry for because they're used for manual labour and mistreated by their owners, (even though it makes no sense for these robots to be so life-like and emotive when they're being mass produced and sold for no other reason than to act as servants) which has been done before in Blade Runner and dozens of different shows and movies much better.

David Cage had an interview or something talking about Detroit and he was like

He knows there have been plenty of movies and games about androids, such as A.I. and Blade Runner. But Cage thinks he has an original story because the androids are good and the humans are bad. It’s really a story about humans, not A.I.

So either he never watched Blade Runner, or he didn't understand it.

How David Cage gets any credit at all as an 'auteur' flabbergasts me.

trevorhpaul

Dac wrote: »

T-Danger wrote: »

Another story about human-like robots who we're supposed to feel sorry for because they're used for manual labour and mistreated by their owners, (even though it makes no sense for these robots to be so life-like and emotive when they're being mass produced and sold for no other reason than to act as servants) which has been done before in Blade Runner and dozens of different shows and movies much better.

David Cage had an interview or something talking about Detroit and he was like

He knows there have been plenty of movies and games about androids, such as A.I. and Blade Runner. But Cage thinks he has an original story because the androids are good and the humans are bad. It’s really a story about humans, not A.I.

So either he never watched Blade Runner, or he didn't understand it.

How David Cage gets any credit at all as an 'auteur' flabbergasts me.

Based purely on that quote, he didn't understand it at all.

The subtitle absolutely indicates he has zero self-awareness, assuming he came up with it.

I'm bummed because I hadn't played any Cage games before, and was hoping that this was going to be like playing Blade Runner or a similar PKD novel, but now I'm warier than I was before.

I did like the demo though! Can I just get like 40 of those for a dollar apiece?

Dac

Cage demos tend to be rather good. IIRC, Indigo Prophecy's was the opening scene with the murder in the coffee house. In isolation, that's a good scene!

It's not until later that the game becomes pure nonsense and hackery.

cB557

Hm. Checking that interview, that description of his statements seems rather misleading. Here's the excerpts from the interview I think that's referring to:

GamesBeat: As you alluded to, there have been a lot of stories about this subject, about androids and artificial life. Was it difficult to come up with a unique storyline here, where you’re doing something original?

Cage: Not really, because my story isn’t so much about A.I. and technology. I know it may sound a little abstract to say it that way, but the story isn’t about that. It’s about humans, emotions, feelings, and identity. I never felt I was telling that story in particular.

GamesBeat: The point of view of androids as the good guys — it’s not necessarily the intuitive or obvious approach. Where did that idea come from?

Cage: The starting point was thinking about what will happen when, one day, we have machines that look exactly like human beings, but are still treated like machines, like objects. It will be a very strange relationship. Talking to someone who looks human as if they were just nothing. That was the starting point for me, for the story, because I think you can establish parallels with different things in the real world. That was my real topic.

Machwing

korodullin wrote: »

A batshit insane plot and a fantastic Super Best Friends LP.

god, I am stoked for the SBFP to play this game

the only good thing david cage has brought into this world is those LPs

KetBra

Dac wrote: »

T-Danger wrote: »

Another story about human-like robots who we're supposed to feel sorry for because they're used for manual labour and mistreated by their owners, (even though it makes no sense for these robots to be so life-like and emotive when they're being mass produced and sold for no other reason than to act as servants) which has been done before in Blade Runner and dozens of different shows and movies much better.

David Cage had an interview or something talking about Detroit and he was like

He knows there have been plenty of movies and games about androids, such as A.I. and Blade Runner. But Cage thinks he has an original story because the androids are good and the humans are bad. It’s really a story about humans, not A.I.

So either he never watched Blade Runner, or he didn't understand it.

How David Cage gets any credit at all as an 'auteur' flabbergasts me.

legit question, is there anyone these days that actually thinks of Cage as an auteur?

miscellaneousinsanity

cB557 wrote: »

where's, "game overs are a failure of the game designer"

trevorhpaul

KetBra wrote: »

Dac wrote: »

T-Danger wrote: »

Another story about human-like robots who we're supposed to feel sorry for because they're used for manual labour and mistreated by their owners, (even though it makes no sense for these robots to be so life-like and emotive when they're being mass produced and sold for no other reason than to act as servants) which has been done before in Blade Runner and dozens of different shows and movies much better.

David Cage had an interview or something talking about Detroit and he was like

He knows there have been plenty of movies and games about androids, such as A.I. and Blade Runner. But Cage thinks he has an original story because the androids are good and the humans are bad. It’s really a story about humans, not A.I.

So either he never watched Blade Runner, or he didn't understand it.

How David Cage gets any credit at all as an 'auteur' flabbergasts me.

legit question, is there anyone these days that actually thinks of Cage as an auteur?

Is this one of those cases where industry-heads decided he was and now here we are, being force-fed the idea that he must be?

Or, was Heavy Rain so well regarded despite its massive flaws that it got over-hyped and so did he?

trevorhpaul

Dac wrote: »

Cage demos tend to be rather good. IIRC, Indigo Prophecy's was the opening scene with the murder in the coffee house. In isolation, that's a good scene!

It's not until later that the game becomes pure nonsense and hackery.

So, are these games worth playing for the segments that do work? Sort of like watching a bad movie for the funny stretches that hit home?

Stupid

A lot of people (myself included) think so.

I enjoyed Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls. It wasn't groundbreaking cinematic gameplay and the stories were not air-tight or even terribly compelling. But they are fun video games and they have their moments.

cloudeagle

trevorhpaul wrote: »

Dac wrote: »

Cage demos tend to be rather good. IIRC, Indigo Prophecy's was the opening scene with the murder in the coffee house. In isolation, that's a good scene!

It's not until later that the game becomes pure nonsense and hackery.

So, are these games worth playing for the segments that do work? Sort of like watching a bad movie for the funny stretches that hit home?

I'm torn.

There are a few scenes in Heavy Rain that really, really work and will leave a lasting impression on you.

But later in the game, there is guaranteed one scene that will make you shout "bullshit!" and lessen the impact of what came before. Maybe other scenes depending on how much you want a coherent plot/are annoyed by scenes written by a guy so far up his butt he won't submit to the minor editing that could fix major, major problems.

So, uh. Maybe play Heavy Rain and quit halfway through?

Zek

The twist in Heavy Rain pissed me off.

I'm playing this character for quite a while making decisions that are based on an understanding of what his motivations are. Decisions which now seem ridiculous in hindsight given what I now realize he was supposed to be thinking at the time. It just doesn't work.

Beezel

https://twitter.com/TheJadedGuy/status/844352570470645760

Dac

Zek wrote: »

The twist in Heavy Rain pissed me off.

I'm playing this character for quite a while making decisions that are based on an understanding of what his motivations are. Decisions which now seem ridiculous in hindsight given what I now realize he was supposed to be thinking at the time. It just doesn't work.

I do remember that game straight-up lying to you at points with regards to that character.

Like in the typewriter shop, specifically.

IIRC, one of Shelby's lines is 'Hm, Manfred's been in the back a while. I should check on him.' Which is just. Fuck off.

And you're controlling Shelby the entire time!

Playing the antagonist but not knowing it is a cool idea as a reveal but you can't LIE TO THE PLAYER and call that a clever twist. It's shit from a butt.

Dashui

What do we expect? Well, it's a David Cage game so it's likely to end like this:

korodullin

trevorhpaul wrote: »

KetBra wrote: »

Dac wrote: »

T-Danger wrote: »

Another story about human-like robots who we're supposed to feel sorry for because they're used for manual labour and mistreated by their owners, (even though it makes no sense for these robots to be so life-like and emotive when they're being mass produced and sold for no other reason than to act as servants) which has been done before in Blade Runner and dozens of different shows and movies much better.

David Cage had an interview or something talking about Detroit and he was like

He knows there have been plenty of movies and games about androids, such as A.I. and Blade Runner. But Cage thinks he has an original story because the androids are good and the humans are bad. It’s really a story about humans, not A.I.

So either he never watched Blade Runner, or he didn't understand it.

How David Cage gets any credit at all as an 'auteur' flabbergasts me.

legit question, is there anyone these days that actually thinks of Cage as an auteur?

Is this one of those cases where industry-heads decided he was and now here we are, being force-fed the idea that he must be?

Or, was Heavy Rain so well regarded despite its massive flaws that it got over-hyped and so did he?

As far as I can tell, much of the industry praise of Cage is derived entirely from the opening scene of Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy. It was strong enough and compelling enough that it got him a lot of attention and a free pass for a long time.

Skull2185

Game Informer came away from a two hour demo with pretty positive impressions, so that's cool.

Also, a demo drops on PSN tomorrow.

mxmarks

I made Beyond: Two Souls my game of the year when it came out. My wife And I love every David Cage game because we order junk food and sit on the couch and kill the whole weekend just shouting at the game. When it works, it's awesome. When it's stupid, we laugh together. It's a blast.

Absolutely the Until Dawn folks are doing the quantic dream thing better than Cage is, but his brand of the dumbest twists is something I really love to make fun of and laugh with friends about. Very rarely does it ever devolve into "this isn't fun anymore" territory. It's just bad in that laughable "what the hell is going on anymore" way.

PiptheFair

https://www.pcgamer.com/david-cages-quantic-dream-sues-french-media-outlets-over-negative-coverage/?utm_content=bufferfa894&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb

cage is also a bully, who knew

Interpreter

Not going to prevent me from getting the game and enjoying it. Nor will it prevent me from getting any future games, provided that Sony will still fund him.

Machwing

PiptheFair wrote: »

https://www.pcgamer.com/david-cages-quantic-dream-sues-french-media-outlets-over-negative-coverage/?utm_content=bufferfa894&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb

cage is also a bully, who knew

I did! I work with a guy who used to be at QD. He has nothing but horror stories about how Cage runs the place. The dude's a dry turd.

Mr_Grinch

Thoroughly looking forward to this, loved all the other QD games and this looks to be no different. I'm going to pass on the demo (out now on some regions) because I already know I'll be picking it up, but those on the fence may want to give it a go.

Or maybe not, because then we'll have another flood of posts about how terrible Quantic Dreams are.

Regarding the Heavy Rain bullshit twist

I didn't mind it too much, a lot of the game didn't make much sense. Reading up on it initially, and till quite far along in development, it was going to be possible for any character to be the killer and it would change from game to game. That was stripped out close to the last minute. There are some fun deleted scenes on YouTube. I mean, they're as nonsensical as it gets, as per Cage norm, but they're fun.

cloudeagle

PiptheFair wrote: »

https://www.pcgamer.com/david-cages-quantic-dream-sues-french-media-outlets-over-negative-coverage/?utm_content=bufferfa894&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb

cage is also a bully, who knew

....pretty fitting that a guy with zero self-awareness about his work would do the ultimate "why would you do this, this makes you look terrible" move of suing the press.

urahonky

Isn't he suing them because they claimed that he was a racist and misogynist with little to no basis?

cloudeagle

urahonky wrote: »

Isn't he suing them because they claimed that he was a racist and misogynist with little to no basis?

Oh, there was basis. (Link is NSFW, thanks to awful images apparently shared within Quantic Dream)

https://www.canardpc.com/373/strange-atmosphere-quantic-dream

urahonky

Ah I'll take a look at it when I'm not on my work computer. The article I read yesterday didn't link anything because (I was assuming) everything is allegations at this point.

Quantic Dream first came under fire after reports were published that higher-ups at the company were aware of certain sexist and homophobic photoshopped images making the rounds at work, including one image with David Cage's face superimposed on the body of a construction worker using a power-tool with a sex toy attached to it. Cage was also accused of making racist comments to an employee after viewing security camera footage of a burglary. Other allegations include that executive producer Guillaume de Fondaumière sexually forced himself on workers at social events.

cloudeagle

urahonky wrote: »

Ah I'll take a look at it when I'm not on my work computer. The article I read yesterday didn't link anything because (I was assuming) everything is allegations at this point.

Quantic Dream first came under fire after reports were published that higher-ups at the company were aware of certain sexist and homophobic photoshopped images making the rounds at work, including one image with David Cage's face superimposed on the body of a construction worker using a power-tool with a sex toy attached to it. Cage was also accused of making racist comments to an employee after viewing security camera footage of a burglary. Other allegations include that executive producer Guillaume de Fondaumière sexually forced himself on workers at social events.

They're allegations in the same sense the strongest #metoo stuff are allegations. Pretty well-detailed and researched.

urahonky

cloudeagle wrote: »

urahonky wrote: »

Ah I'll take a look at it when I'm not on my work computer. The article I read yesterday didn't link anything because (I was assuming) everything is allegations at this point.

Quantic Dream first came under fire after reports were published that higher-ups at the company were aware of certain sexist and homophobic photoshopped images making the rounds at work, including one image with David Cage's face superimposed on the body of a construction worker using a power-tool with a sex toy attached to it. Cage was also accused of making racist comments to an employee after viewing security camera footage of a burglary. Other allegations include that executive producer Guillaume de Fondaumière sexually forced himself on workers at social events.

They're allegations in the same sense the strongest #metoo stuff are allegations. Pretty well-detailed and researched.

Yeah that's what we read about Aziz Ansari though. Besides did any of the perpetrators of the movement end up suing a news site? Seems like he feels like he has a strong case against the allegations.

But if the case gets thrown out and he was in the wrong I'm more than willing to say: Fuck David Cage and his company.

cloudeagle

urahonky wrote: »

cloudeagle wrote: »

urahonky wrote: »

Ah I'll take a look at it when I'm not on my work computer. The article I read yesterday didn't link anything because (I was assuming) everything is allegations at this point.

Quantic Dream first came under fire after reports were published that higher-ups at the company were aware of certain sexist and homophobic photoshopped images making the rounds at work, including one image with David Cage's face superimposed on the body of a construction worker using a power-tool with a sex toy attached to it. Cage was also accused of making racist comments to an employee after viewing security camera footage of a burglary. Other allegations include that executive producer Guillaume de Fondaumière sexually forced himself on workers at social events.

They're allegations in the same sense the strongest #metoo stuff are allegations. Pretty well-detailed and researched.

Yeah that's what we read about Aziz Ansari though. Besides did any of the perpetrators of the movement end up suing a news site? Seems like he feels like he has a strong case against the allegations.

But if the case gets thrown out and he was in the wrong I'm more than willing to say: Fuck David Cage and his company.

I don't know of any news sites getting sued due to #metoo. Not even Harvey Weinstein sued a newspaper that I know of, and the allegations against him were rock-solid. And destroyed his company.

mxmarks

The Detroit demo is awesome.

The flowchart and being able to see where your friends diverged from you is really cool.

My ending:

I saved the girl but they immediately blew the hostage taker away and I'm not really clear on what he meant when he was saying she liked to him.

Excited to do it again

Veagle

Detroit sounds like it is a David Cage game through and through.

https://twitter.com/alex_navarro/status/999653028960571392?s=20

cloudeagle

Veagle wrote: »

Detroit sounds like it is a David Cage game through and through.

https://twitter.com/alex_navarro/status/999653028960571392?s=20

More to that point:

Detroit: Become Human begins with a warning: "This is not a story, this is our future."