I'm sure Wraithknights could stand to be improved, but I'd rather rein in all the ridiculous shooting so that "tough" multi-wound units aren't a liability.
Yeah wraithknights are the same as imperial knights, superheavy Lord of Wars but not actual titans. Dark Eldar have some bad matchups but the rule of 3 thing didn’t do anything to them. Their basic infantry and dedicated transports are super efficient, and they can take a million special weapons that are great against any targets.
Also dark eldar seem ridiculous at the moment. Under costed and very strong.
Yeah, it's feeling very weird to me to see other Dark Eldar players claiming that they don't need a nerf. They very obviously have three or four units that are way too good at the moment.
In retrospect it was probably a warning sign that a list for a 1500 point local league I was playing in - that didn't do well, necessarily, but held its own against Codex opponents - dropped by over 200 points when the Drukhari Codex arrived.
Yeah wraithknights are the same as imperial knights, superheavy Lord of Wars but not actual titans. Dark Eldar have some bad matchups but the rule of 3 thing didn’t do anything to them. Their basic infantry and dedicated transports are super efficient, and they can take a million special weapons that are great against any targets.
It’s just a shifting of the meta. The type of guns people are currently bringing for anti-vehicle work arnt as effective against invulns and negatives to hit, whilst the weapons that are largely ignored this edition, like heavy bolters, multilasers and assault cannons on anything that’s not a razorback, are incredibly strong against DE.
Once people adjust your going to see more varied heavy weapons across lists, which is good. You’ll defiantly see more hellblasters, helviens and obliterators.
Yeah wraithknights are the same as imperial knights, superheavy Lord of Wars but not actual titans. Dark Eldar have some bad matchups but the rule of 3 thing didn’t do anything to them. Their basic infantry and dedicated transports are super efficient, and they can take a million special weapons that are great against any targets.
It’s just a shifting of the meta. The type of guns people are currently bringing for anti-vehicle work arnt as effective against invulns and negatives to hit, whilst the weapons that are largely ignored this edition, like heavy bolters, multilasers and assault cannons on anything that’s not a razorback, are incredibly strong against DE.
Once people adjust your going to see more varied heavy weapons across lists, which is good. You’ll defiantly see more hellblasters, helviens and obliterators.
This is true. My oblits, though they got focused down over two turns, were vicious verse a lot of the DE stuff I was fighting.
Some of the stuff I have ignored because it is bleh are really worth it. ACs are really good verse them. The new Helvrins area really good verse venoms, ravagers, and so on. 3 damage ACs are mean verse DE.
My biggest problem is still that ACs don't touch a lot of other tough targets. Strength 7 -1 AP just doesn't cut it verse knights, russes, or really any non-eldar vehicle.
It's not that people aren't tooled up to deal with invulns & penalty to hit vs. toughness & armor, it's that invulns & penalty to hit are objectively superior in every way as defensive traits. People are bringing high rate of fire weapons to clear through chaff, I don't think it's fair to dismiss assault cannons because they're "only" spammed on razorbacks - what other unit would you bring to field them? Terminators? Dreads?
With the way armor penetration works this edition even small modifiers like -1 and -2 destroy the points efficiency of any elite unit paying for that armor save, and those modifiers are way too commonplace, let alone -3 and -4. Toughness is more useful of course but still too often doesn't matter as it seems, on average, high weapon strength is much cheaper to come by than high model toughness. Let alone +1 to wound modifiers and Poison type effects.
In this edition the ideal tough to kill unit has an invulnerable save, a penalty to be hit, and a Feel No Pain equivalent because those three things can't be denied to you. They just always work to their full capacity (barring small edge cases like Null Zone, etc., sure) whereas toughness, and to a greater extent armor, are often diminished and sometimes completely ignored.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
The nice thing about secondhand necrons is it’s okay if they’re assembled poorly or in bad condition. Glue your broken-footed dudes then use basing to make it look like they’re coming out of the ground. Prime right over those thick paint jobs and paint it dark metallic with highlights on the lumpy spots like it’s rippling living metal. Get the broken Gauss guns, stick green tubes on them with the ends chopped up and paint the end like its fizzling with uncontained flesh-flaying energy. It’s all copacetic with the Mum-Ra bots.
This definitely sounds good and I want to do it but do you happen to have any examples I could off of?
Not entirely sure what you mean by basing and I don't know how I'd do a rippling metal effect or the fizzling effect for the Gauss flayers.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
By basing I mean the stuff you’d put on the base to make it look like terrain instead of a plastic disc. You can mix sand and watered down wood glue to make perfectly serviceable basing material. Pop your model on the base, then scoop basing on the base and move it around however you like.
By rippling I mean just highlight the model where the previous paintjob is particularly chunky. If the basecoat is yellow, do the raised area a lighter yellow, a steel metallic, use a silver, and so on.
The flayer thing would be cutting the green plastic rod in half, painting it green, then using a neon green on the broken end with little jagged lines running down the rod.
It's not that people aren't tooled up to deal with invulns & penalty to hit vs. toughness & armor, it's that invulns & penalty to hit are objectively superior in every way as defensive traits. People are bringing high rate of fire weapons to clear through chaff, I don't think it's fair to dismiss assault cannons because they're "only" spammed on razorbacks - what other unit would you bring to field them? Terminators? Dreads?
With the way armor penetration works this edition even small modifiers like -1 and -2 destroy the points efficiency of any elite unit paying for that armor save, and those modifiers are way too commonplace, let alone -3 and -4. Toughness is more useful of course but still too often doesn't matter as it seems, on average, high weapon strength is much cheaper to come by than high model toughness. Let alone +1 to wound modifiers and Poison type effects.
In this edition the ideal tough to kill unit has an invulnerable save, a penalty to be hit, and a Feel No Pain equivalent because those three things can't be denied to you. They just always work to their full capacity (barring small edge cases like Null Zone, etc., sure) whereas toughness, and to a greater extent armor, are often diminished and sometimes completely ignored.
What you describe here is basically DE vehicles in a nutshell. Normal Eldar and Harlis have their versions to.
It's not that people aren't tooled up to deal with invulns & penalty to hit vs. toughness & armor, it's that invulns & penalty to hit are objectively superior in every way as defensive traits. People are bringing high rate of fire weapons to clear through chaff, I don't think it's fair to dismiss assault cannons because they're "only" spammed on razorbacks - what other unit would you bring to field them? Terminators? Dreads?
With the way armor penetration works this edition even small modifiers like -1 and -2 destroy the points efficiency of any elite unit paying for that armor save, and those modifiers are way too commonplace, let alone -3 and -4. Toughness is more useful of course but still too often doesn't matter as it seems, on average, high weapon strength is much cheaper to come by than high model toughness. Let alone +1 to wound modifiers and Poison type effects.
In this edition the ideal tough to kill unit has an invulnerable save, a penalty to be hit, and a Feel No Pain equivalent because those three things can't be denied to you. They just always work to their full capacity (barring small edge cases like Null Zone, etc., sure) whereas toughness, and to a greater extent armor, are often diminished and sometimes completely ignored.
What you describe here is basically DE vehicles in a nutshell. Normal Eldar and Harlis have their versions to.
The caveat being that all three are conditional for DE vehicles (the -1 to hit and 5++ are only against shooting, the 6+++ is only for vehicles from a specific Kabal). So they're good, but they do have some obvious counter play.
I know that I'm always surprised at just how quickly my Ravagers disappear if an enemy manages to charge them.
Here's my version, half way through. It's actually pretty straight forward but helps if you've got the bits to do a waste if you're wanting to keep the Dominus heads otherwise they're looking too far upwards.
Kataphron arms also work quite nicely with the upper arms of a Dominus too.
Currently working on a Ryzan one based off Yvraine.
It's not that people aren't tooled up to deal with invulns & penalty to hit vs. toughness & armor, it's that invulns & penalty to hit are objectively superior in every way as defensive traits. People are bringing high rate of fire weapons to clear through chaff, I don't think it's fair to dismiss assault cannons because they're "only" spammed on razorbacks - what other unit would you bring to field them? Terminators? Dreads?
With the way armor penetration works this edition even small modifiers like -1 and -2 destroy the points efficiency of any elite unit paying for that armor save, and those modifiers are way too commonplace, let alone -3 and -4. Toughness is more useful of course but still too often doesn't matter as it seems, on average, high weapon strength is much cheaper to come by than high model toughness. Let alone +1 to wound modifiers and Poison type effects.
In this edition the ideal tough to kill unit has an invulnerable save, a penalty to be hit, and a Feel No Pain equivalent because those three things can't be denied to you. They just always work to their full capacity (barring small edge cases like Null Zone, etc., sure) whereas toughness, and to a greater extent armor, are often diminished and sometimes completely ignored.
What you describe here is basically DE vehicles in a nutshell. Normal Eldar and Harlis have their versions to.
The caveat being that all three are conditional for DE vehicles (the -1 to hit and 5++ are only against shooting, the 6+++ is only for vehicles from a specific Kabal). So they're good, but they do have some obvious counter play.
I know that I'm always surprised at just how quickly my Ravagers disappear if an enemy manages to charge them.
Charging them seems to be the issue at least for me. They have insane movement.
It's not that people aren't tooled up to deal with invulns & penalty to hit vs. toughness & armor, it's that invulns & penalty to hit are objectively superior in every way as defensive traits. People are bringing high rate of fire weapons to clear through chaff, I don't think it's fair to dismiss assault cannons because they're "only" spammed on razorbacks - what other unit would you bring to field them? Terminators? Dreads?
With the way armor penetration works this edition even small modifiers like -1 and -2 destroy the points efficiency of any elite unit paying for that armor save, and those modifiers are way too commonplace, let alone -3 and -4. Toughness is more useful of course but still too often doesn't matter as it seems, on average, high weapon strength is much cheaper to come by than high model toughness. Let alone +1 to wound modifiers and Poison type effects.
In this edition the ideal tough to kill unit has an invulnerable save, a penalty to be hit, and a Feel No Pain equivalent because those three things can't be denied to you. They just always work to their full capacity (barring small edge cases like Null Zone, etc., sure) whereas toughness, and to a greater extent armor, are often diminished and sometimes completely ignored.
What you describe here is basically DE vehicles in a nutshell. Normal Eldar and Harlis have their versions to.
Oh, I know. This is just the state of the math of 8th Edition and some armies happen to benefit from the designers writing books as if all types of stats were equal. For example, guardsmen and cultists are great because they don't waste points paying for Toughness, Wounds and Armor that aren't very useful to begin with.
Everyone's posting their reverse-dominus, so here's mine.
McGibs on
+14
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
If I ever decide to go Mechanicus, I'd want my magos to be like what they describe in the novels, armatures and parts everywhere with brains in jars, just like that.
I decided to grab some of the oldass Build + Paint Ork kits while they were cheap (and before everyone wipes them out once the codex drops), so I have some ancient ork models on the way, including the venerable Gorkamorka Trukk:
I've looked at comparison pictures and it is laughably small compared to the modern Ork Trukk (it looks like a go kart), but I already have two modern ones and they both look fairly different (one was accidentally dropped and stepped on right after completion so I rebuilt it as a slightly smaller pickup trukk, and the other I got from a guy who had build a semi-canopy over the bed using bits), so I figured it would be nice to have a third that looked different as well.
I think that the modern Trukk model looks really cool, but the last thing I wanted in my fledgling Ork army was a bunch of beat up, cobbled together, ramshackle vehicles... that all looked exactly alike.
By basing I mean the stuff you’d put on the base to make it look like terrain instead of a plastic disc. You can mix sand and watered down wood glue to make perfectly serviceable basing material. Pop your model on the base, then scoop basing on the base and move it around however you like.
By rippling I mean just highlight the model where the previous paintjob is particularly chunky. If the basecoat is yellow, do the raised area a lighter yellow, a steel metallic, use a silver, and so on.
The flayer thing would be cutting the green plastic rod in half, painting it green, then using a neon green on the broken end with little jagged lines running down the rod.
Oh, so that is how people so those cool bases.
I'll give this all a try, do some tests and such first.
Thank you for the advice, I'm looking forward to this project now that I'm no longer stressed about some of the stuff being beaten up.
Also, catacomb command barges are not nearly as big as they appear in bat reps I've watched. They seem so much larger.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Basing is pretty easy if you just want something simple. For my I do some lumpy astrogranite, then nuln oil in the recesses, then a drybrush with a really light gray, then I plunk down a GW bush or two. Then I paint the ring of the base black and presto, lazy semi-decent looking basing.
My Orks are gonna be on the "Toxic Swamp" style base from the GW paint app though.
Is that a 40mm base? How do you get the cracks to be so large? Mine always end up rather small, even with the thicker version of Agrellan.
Yes it is a 40mm base and as others have said you REALLY gotta pile on the textured paint to get large cracks. I wish i had piled it on more to get more even cracking throughout
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure what kind of basing I'd want to do for my Necrons. I know the ebay merchant I bought the neon orange and dark blue acrylic tubes from makes acrylic crystals for bases as well.
Might look into that.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
My IF and LotD are on bases slathered in Stirland Battlemire, drybrushed with Ryza Rust and Eldar Flesh, and GW grass tufts.
My Nid bases are a big goopy mix of several sizes of sand and grass with watered down glue, primed white, slathered in a light magenta, then a purple wash/varnish mix.
My Nid bases are a big goopy mix of several sizes of sand and grass with watered down glue, primed white, slathered in a light magenta, then a purple wash/varnish mix.
You did good, I keep wanting to spawn more overlords.
This just in - the Gorkamorka era Trukks are adorable:
The gentleman on the left there is King Spouis, the Boy who dreams, the Ork with aspirations to become a Warboss someday (and who may already be one in his own mind).
Seriously this thing is dwarfed by an Intercessor, I think it's just barely too large to fit in the bed of a modern Trukk.
This just in - the Gorkamorka era Trukks are adorable:
The gentleman on the left there is King Spouis, the Boy who dreams, the Ork with aspirations to become a Warboss someday (and who may already be one in his own mind).
Seriously this thing is dwarfed by an Intercessor, I think it's just barely too large to fit in the bed of a modern Trukk.
Ok bear with me.
Tweak a truck so that trukk fits in the back.
Put a buggy in the back of that trukk.
Remove the gun from the buggy, and mount a rack to put a bike on it.
Posts
Also dark eldar seem ridiculous at the moment. Under costed and very strong.
Yeah, it's feeling very weird to me to see other Dark Eldar players claiming that they don't need a nerf. They very obviously have three or four units that are way too good at the moment.
In retrospect it was probably a warning sign that a list for a 1500 point local league I was playing in - that didn't do well, necessarily, but held its own against Codex opponents - dropped by over 200 points when the Drukhari Codex arrived.
It’s just a shifting of the meta. The type of guns people are currently bringing for anti-vehicle work arnt as effective against invulns and negatives to hit, whilst the weapons that are largely ignored this edition, like heavy bolters, multilasers and assault cannons on anything that’s not a razorback, are incredibly strong against DE.
Once people adjust your going to see more varied heavy weapons across lists, which is good. You’ll defiantly see more hellblasters, helviens and obliterators.
This is true. My oblits, though they got focused down over two turns, were vicious verse a lot of the DE stuff I was fighting.
Some of the stuff I have ignored because it is bleh are really worth it. ACs are really good verse them. The new Helvrins area really good verse venoms, ravagers, and so on. 3 damage ACs are mean verse DE.
My biggest problem is still that ACs don't touch a lot of other tough targets. Strength 7 -1 AP just doesn't cut it verse knights, russes, or really any non-eldar vehicle.
With the way armor penetration works this edition even small modifiers like -1 and -2 destroy the points efficiency of any elite unit paying for that armor save, and those modifiers are way too commonplace, let alone -3 and -4. Toughness is more useful of course but still too often doesn't matter as it seems, on average, high weapon strength is much cheaper to come by than high model toughness. Let alone +1 to wound modifiers and Poison type effects.
In this edition the ideal tough to kill unit has an invulnerable save, a penalty to be hit, and a Feel No Pain equivalent because those three things can't be denied to you. They just always work to their full capacity (barring small edge cases like Null Zone, etc., sure) whereas toughness, and to a greater extent armor, are often diminished and sometimes completely ignored.
This definitely sounds good and I want to do it but do you happen to have any examples I could off of?
Not entirely sure what you mean by basing and I don't know how I'd do a rippling metal effect or the fizzling effect for the Gauss flayers.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
By rippling I mean just highlight the model where the previous paintjob is particularly chunky. If the basecoat is yellow, do the raised area a lighter yellow, a steel metallic, use a silver, and so on.
The flayer thing would be cutting the green plastic rod in half, painting it green, then using a neon green on the broken end with little jagged lines running down the rod.
What you describe here is basically DE vehicles in a nutshell. Normal Eldar and Harlis have their versions to.
The caveat being that all three are conditional for DE vehicles (the -1 to hit and 5++ are only against shooting, the 6+++ is only for vehicles from a specific Kabal). So they're good, but they do have some obvious counter play.
I know that I'm always surprised at just how quickly my Ravagers disappear if an enemy manages to charge them.
Here's my version, half way through. It's actually pretty straight forward but helps if you've got the bits to do a waste if you're wanting to keep the Dominus heads otherwise they're looking too far upwards.
Kataphron arms also work quite nicely with the upper arms of a Dominus too.
Currently working on a Ryzan one based off Yvraine.
Charging them seems to be the issue at least for me. They have insane movement.
Oh, I know. This is just the state of the math of 8th Edition and some armies happen to benefit from the designers writing books as if all types of stats were equal. For example, guardsmen and cultists are great because they don't waste points paying for Toughness, Wounds and Armor that aren't very useful to begin with.
I've looked at comparison pictures and it is laughably small compared to the modern Ork Trukk (it looks like a go kart), but I already have two modern ones and they both look fairly different (one was accidentally dropped and stepped on right after completion so I rebuilt it as a slightly smaller pickup trukk, and the other I got from a guy who had build a semi-canopy over the bed using bits), so I figured it would be nice to have a third that looked different as well.
I think that the modern Trukk model looks really cool, but the last thing I wanted in my fledgling Ork army was a bunch of beat up, cobbled together, ramshackle vehicles... that all looked exactly alike.
That just adds some Orkish character to it.
Oh, so that is how people so those cool bases.
I'll give this all a try, do some tests and such first.
Thank you for the advice, I'm looking forward to this project now that I'm no longer stressed about some of the stuff being beaten up.
Also, catacomb command barges are not nearly as big as they appear in bat reps I've watched. They seem so much larger.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
My Orks are gonna be on the "Toxic Swamp" style base from the GW paint app though.
I used them and some tricks to make this base:
(In fact, I use the trowel-shaped end of a green stuff shaping tool.)
Yes it is a 40mm base and as others have said you REALLY gotta pile on the textured paint to get large cracks. I wish i had piled it on more to get more even cracking throughout
Might look into that.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
You did good, I keep wanting to spawn more overlords.
Disgraced Sir Daiodan Terryn, Blade of Wrath
vs.
Scrapcode corrupted Lady Nemata Diabolane, Opressor Obscenitus
I guess I need a Renegade Knight now.
It’s just fun to say
The gentleman on the left there is King Spouis, the Boy who dreams, the Ork with aspirations to become a Warboss someday (and who may already be one in his own mind).
Seriously this thing is dwarfed by an Intercessor, I think it's just barely too large to fit in the bed of a modern Trukk.
One of the many things I am curious about it and them
Ok bear with me.
Tweak a truck so that trukk fits in the back.
Put a buggy in the back of that trukk.
Remove the gun from the buggy, and mount a rack to put a bike on it.