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There was an idea... [AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR] is out. BEWARE THE INTERNET

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    tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks OaklandRegistered User regular
    NOBODY WINS
    I mean, technically, some sort of enforced permanent genetic sterility is the way to permanently reduce population size rather than simply wiping half the populace out. He could even make it "random" and "unbiased" with the gauntlet!
    This is also a terrible idea.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    The less story answer is that it was probably initially intended to be the cosmic cube and not an infinity stone at first

    Unlikely. Even in Captain America it still clearly teleports the Red Skull and they drop a tone of hints in Avengers that the staff is the mind stone and the cube is the space stone.

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    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I don't think anything really indicates that Thanos
    could use the gauntlet to make infinite resources if he wanted to, but even if you extrapolate that from its powers... he doesn't want to. Just like real life conservatives, he has no interest in a solution that helps people. I'm honestly surprised that people find it so implausible that someone would think this was a good idea when roughly fifty percent of the world subscribes to an ideology that would do something extremely similar if they had access to the infinity gauntlet. You think Paul Ryan or Rand Paul would use it to implement UBI and make a Star Trek utopia? I dunno maybe, but I doubt it.

    *Thanos thumbs through his well-worn copy of Atlas Shrugged*

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    Todd
    It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term

    We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food

    -Tal on
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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    I mean, technically, some sort of enforced permanent genetic sterility is the way to permanently reduce population size rather than simply wiping half the populace out. He could even make it "random" and "unbiased" with the gauntlet!
    This is also a terrible idea.
    genophage?

    Psykoma on
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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    NOBODY WINS
    -Tal wrote: »
    It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term

    We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
    What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject

    That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term

    We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
    What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject

    That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
    on the other hand, if you need to scaffold Genocide is Bad, especially right after a bunch of heroes just got disintegrated, there's kind of no hope anyways.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Todd
    thanos killing "rich and poor alike" JUST KILL THE RICH PEOPLE

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    Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term

    We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
    So what you're saying is that a genocidal sociopath is operating on logic that may in fact be *gasp* complete horseshit?!

    Perish the thought

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    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    edited May 2018
    Todd
    ending
    i dunno that the last shot is aiming for empathy, but there's something interesting about ending on a shot of a not just a triumphant villain, but a contented one. i certainly do like that particular choice, as an alternative to the shit-eating elation or whatnot of the variety that's often trafficked by villains everywhere immediately preceding their downfall

    Theodore Floosevelt on
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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term

    We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
    What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject

    That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
    on the other hand, if you need to scaffold Genocide is Bad, especially right after a bunch of heroes just got disintegrated, there's kind of no hope anyways.
    I was gonna joke about how it's not technically genocide but realized multiple people are probably seriously making that argument somewhere as we speak

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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    NOBODY WINS
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term

    We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
    What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject

    That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
    on the other hand, if you need to scaffold Genocide is Bad, especially right after a bunch of heroes just got disintegrated, there's kind of no hope anyways.
    Well that's always been necessary work in the world we live in and i'm no nihilist, so i can't really agree

    But mark my words, if the spoiler moratorium on this ends and we start seeing a big ol' purple face in the same places we see the Punisher logo in now, i'm not going to be surprised

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term

    We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
    What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject

    That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
    on the other hand, if you need to scaffold Genocide is Bad, especially right after a bunch of heroes just got disintegrated, there's kind of no hope anyways.
    Well that's always been necessary work in the world we live in and i'm no nihilist, so i can't really agree

    But mark my words, if the spoiler moratorium on this ends and we start seeing a big ol' purple face in the same places we see the Punisher logo in now, i'm not going to be surprised

    I've literally already seen "thanos is right" stuff

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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    ending
    i dunno that the last shot is aiming for empathy, but there's something interesting about ending on a shot of a not just a triumphant villain, but a contented one. i certainly do like that particular choice, as an alternative to the shit-eating elation or whatnot of the variety that's often trafficked by villains everywhere immediately preceding their downfall

    Ending/Thanos:
    It may be necessary to let Thanos to succeed in order to prevent him from succeeding.

    Stay with me here: Thanos will not stop, and effectively cannot be stopped until he completes his task. The only way he will end his crusade is if he succeeds or dies and he isn't going to die easily.

    Letting him Snap takes him off the playing field. He'll stay on his farm, content, while the Avengers undo his work. Thanos probably thinks that once people have experienced his universe they will be grateful and he won't have to do it with the Stones again as the peoples of the Universe will take it upon themselves.

    So, the only way to win, as Dr. Strange saw, was to let him win and then go about reversing the effects while Thanos farms space-wheat on that purple planet.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Todd
    Yall know real people make thanos' arguments on the regular in like, distinguished publications

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    yeah there are a lot of folks out there who are obsessed with the overpopulation myth and keep crying about how saving people in starving countries will ruin the world in the future because we'll just keep growing and run out of space or food

    despite like, huge amounts of data displaying the opposite

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    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    Todd
    -Tal wrote: »
    Yall know real people make thanos' arguments on the regular in like, distinguished publications

    with as many argumentative braniacs as exist in the mcu, it is a bit odd nobody even dismisses it as asinine

    alt post: how long in-universe after the events of the movie til the first "mental health needs to be part of the discussion" regarding thanos

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    It's not a plot hole when a character is wrong

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    -Tal wrote: »
    Yall know real people make thanos' arguments on the regular in like, distinguished publications

    I don't doubt it for a second, I also don't see what it has to do with anything.

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    Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro cloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered User regular
    Clearly Thanos
    should have just wiped out 100%

    Fuck it

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    NOBODY WINS
    Thanos
    snapped his fingers and made Bucky, Spider-Man, Black Panther and many more, turn to ash.

    Anyone who looks at that and goes "Thanos Was Right" is an asshole with dumb opinions and would have likely been an asshole with dumb opinions even if they never saw this movie.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    Pretty much nobody in the movie is in a position to really discuss this with Thanos.
    every faction of the heroes, save for the Morons, are busy preparing for a war or a surprise attack that precludes Thanos having enough time to react, let alone discuss ethics and philosophy. And of the Morons, only Quill and Gamora actually are given a moment to speak with Thanos. Quill is too angry to really say much of anything to him, and Gamora knows from experience how twisted and concrete Thanos's mindset is, so trying to convince him is pointless.

    Everyone else knows that they need to stop Thanos from committing murder on an unfathomable scale, and that's good enough for them. They instrad focus on trying to get the force needed to win that battle.

    Enlong on
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    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    Todd
    Tube wrote: »
    It's not a plot hole when a character is wrong

    i don't think most of us talking about it think it's a plot hole

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term

    We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
    What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject

    That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
    It's not a neutral stance. The person in favor of it is advocating genocide. That in itself is a condemnation of that person, that their idea and outlook is horrible and needs to be stopped.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    NOBODY WINS
    Clearly Thanos
    should have just wiped out 100%

    Fuck it
    Might I suggest "Marvel Universe: The End"?

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term

    We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
    What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject

    That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
    I don't believe we're supposed to empathize with him. I believe we're supposed to see that when he said he wanted to wipe out half the universe he was exactly literal and serious. He wasn't looking to dominate everyone, he wasn't looking for universal bloodshed. Just half the universe, gone. And now he's content.

    It's to show he isn't a cackling madman, but a calculating one. He is still deeply insane, obviously, but in a "his perspective on reality is completely outside rational consideration" way, not "Jared Leto is Damaged!way.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Todd
    i would have been satisfied with a simple "overpopulation? Seriously? That old myth?" from doctor strange

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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    NOBODY WINS
    -Tal wrote: »
    i would have been satisfied with a simple "overpopulation? Seriously? That old myth?" from doctor strange
    For all of Tony's faults this seems like exactly the sort of thing he would have memorized a counter-argument for as well

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    MarsMars Registered User regular
    The movie only condemns Thanos on moral grounds, not logical ones. Thanos presents his (factually incorrect) ideas about overpopulation and the "easy" solution, multiple times, and the movie gives no counterargument, suggesting that his ideas are sound. That's the problem. By laying the proof of Thanos' villainy on the audience's assumptions about morality, it reinforces these ideas about population control to those who aren't concerned about morality. It's further complicated by portraying the genocidal tyrant as also being a sympathetic, emotional person.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Thanos is emotional, but like hell is he sympathetic. Dude is an abuser and a mass murder on a planetary scale. Him being so very emotional about his need to expand that scale is not worthy of sympathy.

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    autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    NOBODY WINS
    Mars wrote: »
    The movie only condemns Thanos on moral grounds, not logical ones. Thanos presents his (factually incorrect) ideas about overpopulation and the "easy" solution, multiple times, and the movie gives no counterargument, suggesting that his ideas are sound. That's the problem. By laying the proof of Thanos' villainy on the audience's assumptions about morality, it reinforces these ideas about population control to those who aren't concerned about morality. It's further complicated by portraying the genocidal tyrant as also being a sympathetic, emotional person.

    What..
    Is this some sort of current american zeitgeist or what? I know that of the like 30 people I talked about this movie with in germany, not one even jokingly suggested that there was in any way any merit to Thanos' Idea- It's absolutely ridiculous, so ridiculous that you'd have to be mad to need an argument to "disprove" it

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    MarsMars Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    It's to show he isn't a cackling madman, but a calculating one. He is still deeply insane, obviously, but in a "his perspective on reality is completely outside rational consideration" way, not "Jared Leto is Damaged!way.

    This is the issue. It's obvious to you, because you already operate under the assumption that his beliefs are wrong. To anyone without that assumption, he's presented as a rational being going too far. The movie never actually suggests that he's irrational.

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Mars wrote: »
    The movie only condemns Thanos on moral grounds, not logical ones. Thanos presents his (factually incorrect) ideas about overpopulation and the "easy" solution, multiple times, and the movie gives no counterargument, suggesting that his ideas are sound. That's the problem. By laying the proof of Thanos' villainy on the audience's assumptions about morality, it reinforces these ideas about population control to those who aren't concerned about morality. It's further complicated by portraying the genocidal tyrant as also being a sympathetic, emotional person.

    What..
    Is this some sort of current american zeitgeist or what? I know that of the like 30 people I talked about this movie with in germany, not one even jokingly suggested that there was in any way any merit to Thanos' Idea- It's absolutely ridiculous, so ridiculous that you'd have to be mad to need an argument to "disprove" it

    Its one of those conspiracy story nonsense things. An uncle of mine just went on a long rant about how the planet can only support like 30% of our population and in the future who is who is going to decide who lives?

    Quire.jpg
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    I also find it strange to suggest that thanos' goal needs argument-based pushback from within the movie

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    I will say that
    i was expecting a different reaction to Thanos's claim that everyone on Gamora's home planet now has no want for food. My first thought was "yeah right. You think there aren't still slums, even with half the population and a tyrant ruling them directly?"

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    MarsMars Registered User regular
    You guys know there's this whole thing with Nazis and white supremacists right now, right?

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    EtchwartsEtchwarts Eyes Up Registered User regular
    edited May 2018
    Surprise Coulson
    Shorty wrote: »
    I also find it strange to suggest that thanos' goal needs argument-based pushback from within the movie

    Yeah like

    His goal is so cartoonishly evil and self defeating that I don't think they should deign to argue with it

    Etchwarts on
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    Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    All villains should be proven wrong through the honourable art of debate before the heroes can proceed to punching them

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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    All villains should be proven wrong through the honourable art of debate before the heroes can proceed to punching them

    I feel like the next movie beginning in a nightmare hellspace will do that.

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Mars wrote: »
    You guys know there's this whole thing with Nazis and white supremacists right now, right?

    yes and I also believe that in real life the correct way to deal with Nazis is to ignore the arguments they are making and just punch them in their stupid everfucking gob

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