tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
NOBODY WINS
I mean, technically, some sort of enforced permanent genetic sterility is the way to permanently reduce population size rather than simply wiping half the populace out. He could even make it "random" and "unbiased" with the gauntlet!
The less story answer is that it was probably initially intended to be the cosmic cube and not an infinity stone at first
Unlikely. Even in Captain America it still clearly teleports the Red Skull and they drop a tone of hints in Avengers that the staff is the mind stone and the cube is the space stone.
I don't think anything really indicates that Thanos
could use the gauntlet to make infinite resources if he wanted to, but even if you extrapolate that from its powers... he doesn't want to. Just like real life conservatives, he has no interest in a solution that helps people. I'm honestly surprised that people find it so implausible that someone would think this was a good idea when roughly fifty percent of the world subscribes to an ideology that would do something extremely similar if they had access to the infinity gauntlet. You think Paul Ryan or Rand Paul would use it to implement UBI and make a Star Trek utopia? I dunno maybe, but I doubt it.
*Thanos thumbs through his well-worn copy of Atlas Shrugged*
I mean, technically, some sort of enforced permanent genetic sterility is the way to permanently reduce population size rather than simply wiping half the populace out. He could even make it "random" and "unbiased" with the gauntlet!
This is also a terrible idea.
genophage?
Psykoma on
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masterofmetroidHave you ever looked at a worldand seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered Userregular
It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term
We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject
That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term
We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject
That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
on the other hand, if you need to scaffold Genocide is Bad, especially right after a bunch of heroes just got disintegrated, there's kind of no hope anyways.
Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
edited May 2018
Todd
ending
i dunno that the last shot is aiming for empathy, but there's something interesting about ending on a shot of a not just a triumphant villain, but a contented one. i certainly do like that particular choice, as an alternative to the shit-eating elation or whatnot of the variety that's often trafficked by villains everywhere immediately preceding their downfall
It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term
We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject
That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
on the other hand, if you need to scaffold Genocide is Bad, especially right after a bunch of heroes just got disintegrated, there's kind of no hope anyways.
I was gonna joke about how it's not technically genocide but realized multiple people are probably seriously making that argument somewhere as we speak
It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term
We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject
That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
on the other hand, if you need to scaffold Genocide is Bad, especially right after a bunch of heroes just got disintegrated, there's kind of no hope anyways.
Well that's always been necessary work in the world we live in and i'm no nihilist, so i can't really agree
But mark my words, if the spoiler moratorium on this ends and we start seeing a big ol' purple face in the same places we see the Punisher logo in now, i'm not going to be surprised
It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term
We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject
That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
on the other hand, if you need to scaffold Genocide is Bad, especially right after a bunch of heroes just got disintegrated, there's kind of no hope anyways.
Well that's always been necessary work in the world we live in and i'm no nihilist, so i can't really agree
But mark my words, if the spoiler moratorium on this ends and we start seeing a big ol' purple face in the same places we see the Punisher logo in now, i'm not going to be surprised
I've literally already seen "thanos is right" stuff
i dunno that the last shot is aiming for empathy, but there's something interesting about ending on a shot of a not just a triumphant villain, but a contented one. i certainly do like that particular choice, as an alternative to the shit-eating elation or whatnot of the variety that's often trafficked by villains everywhere immediately preceding their downfall
Ending/Thanos:
It may be necessary to let Thanos to succeed in order to prevent him from succeeding.
Stay with me here: Thanos will not stop, and effectively cannot be stopped until he completes his task. The only way he will end his crusade is if he succeeds or dies and he isn't going to die easily.
Letting him Snap takes him off the playing field. He'll stay on his farm, content, while the Avengers undo his work. Thanos probably thinks that once people have experienced his universe they will be grateful and he won't have to do it with the Stones again as the peoples of the Universe will take it upon themselves.
So, the only way to win, as Dr. Strange saw, was to let him win and then go about reversing the effects while Thanos farms space-wheat on that purple planet.
yeah there are a lot of folks out there who are obsessed with the overpopulation myth and keep crying about how saving people in starving countries will ruin the world in the future because we'll just keep growing and run out of space or food
despite like, huge amounts of data displaying the opposite
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
snapped his fingers and made Bucky, Spider-Man, Black Panther and many more, turn to ash.
Anyone who looks at that and goes "Thanos Was Right" is an asshole with dumb opinions and would have likely been an asshole with dumb opinions even if they never saw this movie.
Pretty much nobody in the movie is in a position to really discuss this with Thanos.
every faction of the heroes, save for the Morons, are busy preparing for a war or a surprise attack that precludes Thanos having enough time to react, let alone discuss ethics and philosophy. And of the Morons, only Quill and Gamora actually are given a moment to speak with Thanos. Quill is too angry to really say much of anything to him, and Gamora knows from experience how twisted and concrete Thanos's mindset is, so trying to convince him is pointless.
Everyone else knows that they need to stop Thanos from committing murder on an unfathomable scale, and that's good enough for them. They instrad focus on trying to get the force needed to win that battle.
Enlong on
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term
We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject
That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
It's not a neutral stance. The person in favor of it is advocating genocide. That in itself is a condemnation of that person, that their idea and outlook is horrible and needs to be stopped.
It's absurd on all levels and does not work even in the short term
We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
What bugs me about the whole line of "Well he's a villain, you're not supposed to agree with him" is the movie spends two lovingly crafted shots, one of which is THE FINAL MOMENT IN THE FILM asking us to empathize with his emotions on the subject
That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
I don't believe we're supposed to empathize with him. I believe we're supposed to see that when he said he wanted to wipe out half the universe he was exactly literal and serious. He wasn't looking to dominate everyone, he wasn't looking for universal bloodshed. Just half the universe, gone. And now he's content.
It's to show he isn't a cackling madman, but a calculating one. He is still deeply insane, obviously, but in a "his perspective on reality is completely outside rational consideration" way, not "Jared Leto is Damaged!way.
The movie only condemns Thanos on moral grounds, not logical ones. Thanos presents his (factually incorrect) ideas about overpopulation and the "easy" solution, multiple times, and the movie gives no counterargument, suggesting that his ideas are sound. That's the problem. By laying the proof of Thanos' villainy on the audience's assumptions about morality, it reinforces these ideas about population control to those who aren't concerned about morality. It's further complicated by portraying the genocidal tyrant as also being a sympathetic, emotional person.
Thanos is emotional, but like hell is he sympathetic. Dude is an abuser and a mass murder on a planetary scale. Him being so very emotional about his need to expand that scale is not worthy of sympathy.
The movie only condemns Thanos on moral grounds, not logical ones. Thanos presents his (factually incorrect) ideas about overpopulation and the "easy" solution, multiple times, and the movie gives no counterargument, suggesting that his ideas are sound. That's the problem. By laying the proof of Thanos' villainy on the audience's assumptions about morality, it reinforces these ideas about population control to those who aren't concerned about morality. It's further complicated by portraying the genocidal tyrant as also being a sympathetic, emotional person.
What..
Is this some sort of current american zeitgeist or what? I know that of the like 30 people I talked about this movie with in germany, not one even jokingly suggested that there was in any way any merit to Thanos' Idea- It's absolutely ridiculous, so ridiculous that you'd have to be mad to need an argument to "disprove" it
It's to show he isn't a cackling madman, but a calculating one. He is still deeply insane, obviously, but in a "his perspective on reality is completely outside rational consideration" way, not "Jared Leto is Damaged!way.
This is the issue. It's obvious to you, because you already operate under the assumption that his beliefs are wrong. To anyone without that assumption, he's presented as a rational being going too far. The movie never actually suggests that he's irrational.
The movie only condemns Thanos on moral grounds, not logical ones. Thanos presents his (factually incorrect) ideas about overpopulation and the "easy" solution, multiple times, and the movie gives no counterargument, suggesting that his ideas are sound. That's the problem. By laying the proof of Thanos' villainy on the audience's assumptions about morality, it reinforces these ideas about population control to those who aren't concerned about morality. It's further complicated by portraying the genocidal tyrant as also being a sympathetic, emotional person.
What..
Is this some sort of current american zeitgeist or what? I know that of the like 30 people I talked about this movie with in germany, not one even jokingly suggested that there was in any way any merit to Thanos' Idea- It's absolutely ridiculous, so ridiculous that you'd have to be mad to need an argument to "disprove" it
Its one of those conspiracy story nonsense things. An uncle of mine just went on a long rant about how the planet can only support like 30% of our population and in the future who is who is going to decide who lives?
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
I also find it strange to suggest that thanos' goal needs argument-based pushback from within the movie
i was expecting a different reaction to Thanos's claim that everyone on Gamora's home planet now has no want for food. My first thought was "yeah right. You think there aren't still slums, even with half the population and a tyrant ruling them directly?"
You guys know there's this whole thing with Nazis and white supremacists right now, right?
yes and I also believe that in real life the correct way to deal with Nazis is to ignore the arguments they are making and just punch them in their stupid everfucking gob
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Unlikely. Even in Captain America it still clearly teleports the Red Skull and they drop a tone of hints in Avengers that the staff is the mind stone and the cube is the space stone.
*Thanos thumbs through his well-worn copy of Atlas Shrugged*
We still had famine 100 years ago when the population was much lower, and we still have famine today even though we are much better at producing food
That is not a neutral stance to put in your movie and it needs a very strong counter within the work for me not to consider it irresponsible!
Perish the thought
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But mark my words, if the spoiler moratorium on this ends and we start seeing a big ol' purple face in the same places we see the Punisher logo in now, i'm not going to be surprised
I've literally already seen "thanos is right" stuff
Ending/Thanos:
Stay with me here: Thanos will not stop, and effectively cannot be stopped until he completes his task. The only way he will end his crusade is if he succeeds or dies and he isn't going to die easily.
Letting him Snap takes him off the playing field. He'll stay on his farm, content, while the Avengers undo his work. Thanos probably thinks that once people have experienced his universe they will be grateful and he won't have to do it with the Stones again as the peoples of the Universe will take it upon themselves.
So, the only way to win, as Dr. Strange saw, was to let him win and then go about reversing the effects while Thanos farms space-wheat on that purple planet.
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despite like, huge amounts of data displaying the opposite
with as many argumentative braniacs as exist in the mcu, it is a bit odd nobody even dismisses it as asinine
alt post: how long in-universe after the events of the movie til the first "mental health needs to be part of the discussion" regarding thanos
I don't doubt it for a second, I also don't see what it has to do with anything.
Fuck it
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Anyone who looks at that and goes "Thanos Was Right" is an asshole with dumb opinions and would have likely been an asshole with dumb opinions even if they never saw this movie.
Everyone else knows that they need to stop Thanos from committing murder on an unfathomable scale, and that's good enough for them. They instrad focus on trying to get the force needed to win that battle.
i don't think most of us talking about it think it's a plot hole
It's to show he isn't a cackling madman, but a calculating one. He is still deeply insane, obviously, but in a "his perspective on reality is completely outside rational consideration" way, not "Jared Leto is Damaged!way.
What..
This is the issue. It's obvious to you, because you already operate under the assumption that his beliefs are wrong. To anyone without that assumption, he's presented as a rational being going too far. The movie never actually suggests that he's irrational.
Its one of those conspiracy story nonsense things. An uncle of mine just went on a long rant about how the planet can only support like 30% of our population and in the future who is who is going to decide who lives?
Yeah like
His goal is so cartoonishly evil and self defeating that I don't think they should deign to argue with it
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I feel like the next movie beginning in a nightmare hellspace will do that.
yes and I also believe that in real life the correct way to deal with Nazis is to ignore the arguments they are making and just punch them in their stupid everfucking gob