This is just feeding into the existing right wing narrative of deep state corruption. Any "evidence" they find is going to be either "this guy in the FBI thinks Trump is a fucking idiot" or "this guy is a Democrat" or "this guy donated money to Obama" and that's sufficient to bleat about political motivation. Because that's already what they're doing.
The goal is to motivate their base to show up at the polls by perpetuating the witch hunt narrative, because that's how they survive this. If the GOP keeps Congress, all this goes away and Trump suffers no consequences. Poisoning public opinion is their only move here, and that's what their bullshit investigation is trying to do.
The goal is to install a dictatorship.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I would just laugh and laugh and laugh if the OIG investigation just turns up massive anti-Hillary bias and forces out the agents in the New York Branch.
Mr. Trump’s lawyers said the special counsel had no basis to build an obstruction case based on Mr. Comey’s firing because the president was free as the head of the executive branch to dismiss any subordinates.
I don't get this. Almost all public corruption laws include public officials doing things using their granted powers. This would literally mean giving a congressperson money explicitly as an agreed upon bribe to vote a certain way would be legal.
Well, and I know this is hard to follow but stick with me here, when someone tries to obstruct justice, they quite frequently use methods that are within their capabilities and authority.
Justice is caving and investigating themselves for the most comically incompetent political hit job ever. Woo rule of law!
Investigating themselves is how they make Trump go away here. You punt it to the Office of Inspector General, they issue a report in 8-12 weeks long after he's been distracted by the next shiny thing.
It's the right move to not dare him to go full Monday Night Massacre, which would be much more damaging.
Justice is caving and investigating themselves for the most comically incompetent political hit job ever. Woo rule of law!
Investigating themselves is how they make Trump go away here. You punt it to the Office of Inspector General, they issue a report in 8-12 weeks long after he's been distracted by the next shiny thing.
It's the right move to not dare him to go full Monday Night Massacre, which would be much more damaging.
This is absolutely wrong. The president cannot be allowed to order investigations into his partisan opponents. And Justice cannot be cowed into launching bullshit investigations for political reasons. If you'll recall, that's part of how we got in this mess in the first place.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
They seem very provoked by the fact the FBI is only largely Republican rather than completely Republican. They seem to regard Democrats as existing on sufferance. If a Democrat does anything more powerful than running an artisanal brewery, they start screaming “bias!”
It seems more a case that the FBI would be first and formost motivated by it's ostensible purpose of upholding the law.
California Democratic Rep. Ted Lieu said on CNN that Trump's demand could amount to obstruction of justice.
"If he is trying to influence a federal investigation against him by saying we now need to investigate that investigation, depending on how he does it, that could be obstruction of justice," Lieu said. "He needs to let the investigation against him proceed without any political interference."
this is from a cnn article. Also democrats in the article are saying that you cant do this, the president cant just 'order" this. Is that true?
California Democratic Rep. Ted Lieu said on CNN that Trump's demand could amount to obstruction of justice.
"If he is trying to influence a federal investigation against him by saying we now need to investigate that investigation, depending on how he does it, that could be obstruction of justice," Lieu said. "He needs to let the investigation against him proceed without any political interference."
this is from a cnn article. Also democrats in the article are saying that you cant do this, the president cant just 'order" this. Is that true?
There are rules about interaction with the DoJ, but like we're finding with most of this stuff it largely comes down to "what will Congress do about it?".
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
California Democratic Rep. Ted Lieu said on CNN that Trump's demand could amount to obstruction of justice.
"If he is trying to influence a federal investigation against him by saying we now need to investigate that investigation, depending on how he does it, that could be obstruction of justice," Lieu said. "He needs to let the investigation against him proceed without any political interference."
this is from a cnn article. Also democrats in the article are saying that you cant do this, the president cant just 'order" this. Is that true?
The DoJ is supposed to be wholly separate from the Oval Office, yes.
He literally said “I hereby demand...” when giving his “order” to the DoJ.
It’s sickening.
It was gross and at least irregular, if not illegal, but what gets me is how Michael-Scott-declaring-bankruptcy it was. It's just like...that's not really how this works.
He literally said “I hereby demand...” when giving his “order” to the DoJ.
It’s sickening.
It was gross and at least irregular, if not illegal, but what gets me is how Michael-Scott-declaring-bankruptcy it was. It's just like...that's not really how this works.
Not really. With the president that is really his things work. Everything else is a formality
The DOJ should have told him to go fuck himself and when he's done maybe go take a Jr High social studies class. How is this okay? Donald Trump is like a bizarre Don Quixote determined to use his inability to understand any subject to make things worse for everyone.
Mueller really needs the support of Congress and I'm not sure if he'll get it at this point. Enough critters have determined El Presidente is worth protecting from even light scrutiny. The end consequences of the circus of political theatre and improperly wielding presidential powers with a complicit Congress should be a lot of people out of a job or in jail. I'm glad Mueller seems to have his team still on a very solid heading and all the "leaks" and announcements regarding the investigation are things that were settled months ago.
It's like the ending of Watchmen... they find out only when there's nothing they can do about it. Except I guess hire Rudy 911 Guiliani and hemorrhage lawyers.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
He literally said “I hereby demand...” when giving his “order” to the DoJ.
It’s sickening.
It was gross and at least irregular, if not illegal, but what gets me is how Michael-Scott-declaring-bankruptcy it was. It's just like...that's not really how this works.
It wouldn't be the first time he's announced policy on Twitter and then done absolutely nothing to implement it otherwise. To him, tweeting is how he gets things done.
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Now, to be fair to Trump, he did say he was going to formally order the DoJ... later today, I guess. So it is actually as gross and awful as we think, and only slightly less doddering and pathetic.
Now, to be fair to Trump, he did say he was going to formally order the DoJ... later today, I guess. So it is actually as gross and awful as we think, and only slightly less doddering and pathetic.
Now, to be fair to Trump, he did say he was going to formally order the DoJ... later today, I guess. So it is actually as gross and awful as we think, and only slightly less doddering and pathetic.
But arguably, wouldn't it be more pathetic to fold to it before the order is even officially given? I guess the DoJ's justification is that they get to chose the scope themselves this way, but when he doesn't like the result, it's not like he's just going to let it end there.
He literally said “I hereby demand...” when giving his “order” to the DoJ.
It’s sickening.
Actor Chris Evans put that into perspective; it makes Trump look like the birthday kid at Burger King with the crown on his head.
This is the worst part about how dangerous Trump is, and what he’s doing to our system of government and how we perceive it in response to him being under investigation.
He does it all in such a constantly stupid way on such a daily basis that his ignorance and general incompetence is making the public numb to the things he’s actually doing.
People just start to tune him out and try to live their lives because they can’t with his constant stupidity that he’s normalizing extremely dangerous actions and motivations.
I would just laugh and laugh and laugh if the OIG investigation just turns up massive anti-Hillary bias and forces out the agents in the New York Branch.
I mean thats pretty much what the report on McCabe said
It was almost guaranteed that it would be given to the OIG. That's perfectly fine, cause there won't be anything
Yup I am okay with it being given to the OIG chances are they look at it and go nope no problem here everything is in order and you move along. It is just like the wiretapping claims from trump it is nothing but it sends people running in circles for a bit having to prove there was nothing there.
It was almost guaranteed that it would be given to the OIG. That's perfectly fine, cause there won't be anything
Yup I am okay with it being given to the OIG chances are they look at it and go nope no problem here everything is in order and you move along. It is just like the wiretapping claims from trump it is nothing but it sends people running in circles for a bit having to prove there was nothing there.
Except you can't prove a negative, and given Trump has already built the narrative in his head that it DID happen, any result that doesn't prove or at least admit the possibility of it happening, will just be the OIG, as with ny other departments that "crossed" him, will be met with anything from derision to allegations of conspiracy.
It's inconceivable to the Trump administration that the FBI could be looking at some people in their campaign because FBI agents found some evidence of a crime while doing their regular fucking job.
In Trump's world, every single action taken by a government agent is done at the command of the supreme ruler, so of course Obama had to have ordered the FBI to spy on Trump.
Let’s also not overlook that Trump probably believes that Obama put spies in to sabotage his campaign because Trump would also use the FBI to take down his opponents.
It's inconceivable to the Trump administration that the FBI could be looking at some people in their campaign because FBI agents found some evidence of a crime while doing their regular fucking job.
In Trump's world, every single action taken by a government agent is done at the command of the supreme ruler, so of course Obama had to have ordered the FBI to spy on Trump.
If they push that narrative, could we demand an investigation into why the FBI were so bad that they couldn't stop Trump fom getting elected?
It was almost guaranteed that it would be given to the OIG. That's perfectly fine, cause there won't be anything
Yup I am okay with it being given to the OIG chances are they look at it and go nope no problem here everything is in order and you move along. It is just like the wiretapping claims from trump it is nothing but it sends people running in circles for a bit having to prove there was nothing there.
Except you can't prove a negative, and given Trump has already built the narrative in his head that it DID happen, any result that doesn't prove or at least admit the possibility of it happening, will just be the OIG, as with ny other departments that "crossed" him, will be met with anything from derision to allegations of conspiracy.
Because that's how this administration rolls.
These f'n guys.
You can however look at what if any FBI informants were used and how so it should be pretty quickly and easily seen that there is nothing nefarious there file the report and move on.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
It's inconceivable to the Trump administration that the FBI could be looking at some people in their campaign because FBI agents found some evidence of a crime while doing their regular fucking job.
In Trump's world, every single action taken by a government agent is done at the command of the supreme ruler, so of course Obama had to have ordered the FBI to spy on Trump.
More like they know what they've done and a smear campaign to discredit their accusers is their only play. This is the rapist defense of bringing up a victim's sexual history.
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
So the office republicans are pounding the drum real hard about how mueller will never find anything so we need to shut it down... I am honestly a bit frightened of this. The assumption already exists that there is nothing wrong and that this is 100% a clinton conspiracy somehow
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
So the office republicans are pounding the drum real hard about how mueller will never find anything so we need to shut it down... I am honestly a bit frightened of this. The assumption already exists that there is nothing wrong and that this is 100% a clinton conspiracy somehow
Have you explained calmly how he has already found a fucking ton of bullshit?
So the office republicans are pounding the drum real hard about how mueller will never find anything so we need to shut it down... I am honestly a bit frightened of this. The assumption already exists that there is nothing wrong and that this is 100% a clinton conspiracy somehow
Have you explained calmly how he has already found a fucking ton of bullshit?
YEAH EVIDENCE OF A LIBERAL PLOT TO DESTROY AMERICA
So the office republicans are pounding the drum real hard about how mueller will never find anything so we need to shut it down... I am honestly a bit frightened of this. The assumption already exists that there is nothing wrong and that this is 100% a clinton conspiracy somehow
Have you explained calmly how he has already found a fucking ton of bullshit?
Let’s also not overlook that Trump probably believes that Obama put spies in to sabotage his campaign because Trump would also use the FBI to take down his opponents.
If there's one thing we've learned from all this it's that if the Republicans are accusing someone else of doing something, they 100% have done or would do that thing themselves.
shryke on
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
So the office republicans are pounding the drum real hard about how mueller will never find anything so we need to shut it down... I am honestly a bit frightened of this. The assumption already exists that there is nothing wrong and that this is 100% a clinton conspiracy somehow
Have you explained calmly how he has already found a fucking ton of bullshit?
YEAH EVIDENCE OF A LIBERAL PLOT TO DESTROY AMERICA
Ok yeah I have no idea how to argue against someone for whom objective facts hold no sway.
Please don’t do that thank you I now want to punch someone through the internet
So the office republicans are pounding the drum real hard about how mueller will never find anything so we need to shut it down... I am honestly a bit frightened of this. The assumption already exists that there is nothing wrong and that this is 100% a clinton conspiracy somehow
They want you to be frightened theyve been coached for decades that its funny to torment "the libs". Ignore them nothing they say is based in reality
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
So the office republicans are pounding the drum real hard about how mueller will never find anything so we need to shut it down... I am honestly a bit frightened of this. The assumption already exists that there is nothing wrong and that this is 100% a clinton conspiracy somehow
It's clear Mueller has found plenty already. Don's kids, staff, transition team, lawyer, the NRA, and the GOP, have all been implicated in this mess. And with every breaking news blurb implicating these people we find out Mueller already knew about it 2 months ago.
I realize we can't pin our hopes on Mueller saving the country, but I'm pretty sure when he finally does release his report it's going to be gnarly what they've dug up (Hopefully plenty on Devin Nunes!). Unfortunately what congress and the public does with the information, is another matter.
So the office republicans are pounding the drum real hard about how mueller will never find anything so we need to shut it down... I am honestly a bit frightened of this. The assumption already exists that there is nothing wrong and that this is 100% a clinton conspiracy somehow
Have you explained calmly how he has already found a fucking ton of bullshit?
Anybody who has seen all the evidence of collusion/obstruction/illegal activity in general by Trump and his administration and is still carrying water for him is willfully ignorant. They are not open to hearing the truth. He is Their Guy, and Their Guy can do no wrong because he is a Republican. This is the endpoint of feeding people a steady diet of propaganda and insisting that all other sources of information are lies bent on turning you to evil. This is why Fake News is such a damaging part of the zeitgeist. We can provide documentation and video evidence proving Donald Trump personally beheaded the Dalai Lamai while Putin applauded and told him that his training is now complete, now go and be President, and all he has to do is yell “Fake News”, and just under half the people in the country will believe him because they consider him the only trustworthy source of information.
These problems don’t go away IF Mueller gets a smoking gun and IF Mueller convinces the House (this one or the next) to take action and IF there is actual follow-through. Once Trump stops being President, one way or another, we still have to deal with the fact that millions of people are immune to facts. Mueller getting Trump to face some kind of consequences for all his criminal actions is half a step in the right direction on a walk from LA to New York.
We all know Trump and his family and appointees are guilty of crimes, and there potentially being consequences down the road for those crimes is something that gives us hope. But for just under half the country, this is a partisan Witch Hunt and a result which does anything other than completely exonerate everybody involved is outrageous. No amount of proof is going to convince them otherwise. We need to figure out how to fix that, but systemic issues are always more difficult to solve than single target issues. “Get Trump indicted”, while seemingly improbable by itself, is infinitely easier than, “Convince half the country that facts are real and that they’ve been duped their whole lives, and Trump was just the con man that pulled the wool over their eyes most recently”.
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Mx. QuillI now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually...{They/Them}Registered Userregular
So the office republicans are pounding the drum real hard about how mueller will never find anything so we need to shut it down... I am honestly a bit frightened of this. The assumption already exists that there is nothing wrong and that this is 100% a clinton conspiracy somehow
Have you explained calmly how he has already found a fucking ton of bullshit?
Anybody who has seen all the evidence of collusion/obstruction/illegal activity in general by Trump and his administration and is still carrying water for him is willfully ignorant. They are not open to hearing the truth. He is Their Guy, and Their Guy can do no wrong because he is a Republican. This is the endpoint of feeding people a steady diet of propaganda and insisting that all other sources of information are lies bent on turning you to evil. This is why Fake News is such a damaging part of the zeitgeist. We can provide documentation and video evidence proving Donald Trump personally beheaded the Dalai Lamai while Putin applauded and told him that his training is now complete, now go and be President, and all he has to do is yell “Fake News”, and just under half the people in the country will believe him because they consider him the only trustworthy source of information.
These problems don’t go away IF Mueller gets a smoking gun and IF Mueller convinces the House (this one or the next) to take action and IF there is actual follow-through. Once Trump stops being President, one way or another, we still have to deal with the fact that millions of people are immune to facts. Mueller getting Trump to face some kind of consequences for all his criminal actions is half a step in the right direction on a walk from LA to New York.
We all know Trump and his family and appointees are guilty of crimes, and there potentially being consequences down the road for those crimes is something that gives us hope. But for just under half the country, this is a partisan Witch Hunt and a result which does anything other than completely exonerate everybody involved is outrageous. No amount of proof is going to convince them otherwise. We need to figure out how to fix that, but systemic issues are always more difficult to solve than single target issues. “Get Trump indicted”, while seemingly improbable by itself, is infinitely easier than, “Convince half the country that facts are real and that they’ve been duped their whole lives, and Trump was just the con man that pulled the wool over their eyes most recently”.
Not to mention trying to convince the rest of the world that America is in any way trustworthy after all those bridges ignorance has burned.
Posts
The goal is to install a dictatorship.
Well, and I know this is hard to follow but stick with me here, when someone tries to obstruct justice, they quite frequently use methods that are within their capabilities and authority.
Shocking, I know!
These fuckin' people.
Investigating themselves is how they make Trump go away here. You punt it to the Office of Inspector General, they issue a report in 8-12 weeks long after he's been distracted by the next shiny thing.
It's the right move to not dare him to go full Monday Night Massacre, which would be much more damaging.
This is absolutely wrong. The president cannot be allowed to order investigations into his partisan opponents. And Justice cannot be cowed into launching bullshit investigations for political reasons. If you'll recall, that's part of how we got in this mess in the first place.
It seems more a case that the FBI would be first and formost motivated by it's ostensible purpose of upholding the law.
this is from a cnn article. Also democrats in the article are saying that you cant do this, the president cant just 'order" this. Is that true?
There are rules about interaction with the DoJ, but like we're finding with most of this stuff it largely comes down to "what will Congress do about it?".
The DoJ is supposed to be wholly separate from the Oval Office, yes.
It’s sickening.
It was gross and at least irregular, if not illegal, but what gets me is how Michael-Scott-declaring-bankruptcy it was. It's just like...that's not really how this works.
Not really. With the president that is really his things work. Everything else is a formality
Mueller really needs the support of Congress and I'm not sure if he'll get it at this point. Enough critters have determined El Presidente is worth protecting from even light scrutiny. The end consequences of the circus of political theatre and improperly wielding presidential powers with a complicit Congress should be a lot of people out of a job or in jail. I'm glad Mueller seems to have his team still on a very solid heading and all the "leaks" and announcements regarding the investigation are things that were settled months ago.
It's like the ending of Watchmen... they find out only when there's nothing they can do about it. Except I guess hire Rudy 911 Guiliani and hemorrhage lawyers.
It wouldn't be the first time he's announced policy on Twitter and then done absolutely nothing to implement it otherwise. To him, tweeting is how he gets things done.
But arguably, wouldn't it be more pathetic to fold to it before the order is even officially given? I guess the DoJ's justification is that they get to chose the scope themselves this way, but when he doesn't like the result, it's not like he's just going to let it end there.
Basically the FBI agents will explain the process by which they came to watch members of the Trump campaign.
The OIG compares that with established policies and produces a report. It's all rather mundane.
Congress asks for these kind of reviews all the time, though it usually is a bipartisan request.
It’s a Chewbacca defense. Throw as much confusing crap out as possible and run out the clock.
This is the worst part about how dangerous Trump is, and what he’s doing to our system of government and how we perceive it in response to him being under investigation.
He does it all in such a constantly stupid way on such a daily basis that his ignorance and general incompetence is making the public numb to the things he’s actually doing.
People just start to tune him out and try to live their lives because they can’t with his constant stupidity that he’s normalizing extremely dangerous actions and motivations.
I mean thats pretty much what the report on McCabe said
Yup I am okay with it being given to the OIG chances are they look at it and go nope no problem here everything is in order and you move along. It is just like the wiretapping claims from trump it is nothing but it sends people running in circles for a bit having to prove there was nothing there.
Because that's how this administration rolls.
These f'n guys.
In Trump's world, every single action taken by a government agent is done at the command of the supreme ruler, so of course Obama had to have ordered the FBI to spy on Trump.
You can however look at what if any FBI informants were used and how so it should be pretty quickly and easily seen that there is nothing nefarious there file the report and move on.
More like they know what they've done and a smear campaign to discredit their accusers is their only play. This is the rapist defense of bringing up a victim's sexual history.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Have you explained calmly how he has already found a fucking ton of bullshit?
YEAH EVIDENCE OF A LIBERAL PLOT TO DESTROY AMERICA
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
they don't care
If there's one thing we've learned from all this it's that if the Republicans are accusing someone else of doing something, they 100% have done or would do that thing themselves.
Ok yeah I have no idea how to argue against someone for whom objective facts hold no sway.
Please don’t do that thank you I now want to punch someone through the internet
They want you to be frightened theyve been coached for decades that its funny to torment "the libs". Ignore them nothing they say is based in reality
It's clear Mueller has found plenty already. Don's kids, staff, transition team, lawyer, the NRA, and the GOP, have all been implicated in this mess. And with every breaking news blurb implicating these people we find out Mueller already knew about it 2 months ago.
I realize we can't pin our hopes on Mueller saving the country, but I'm pretty sure when he finally does release his report it's going to be gnarly what they've dug up (Hopefully plenty on Devin Nunes!). Unfortunately what congress and the public does with the information, is another matter.
Anybody who has seen all the evidence of collusion/obstruction/illegal activity in general by Trump and his administration and is still carrying water for him is willfully ignorant. They are not open to hearing the truth. He is Their Guy, and Their Guy can do no wrong because he is a Republican. This is the endpoint of feeding people a steady diet of propaganda and insisting that all other sources of information are lies bent on turning you to evil. This is why Fake News is such a damaging part of the zeitgeist. We can provide documentation and video evidence proving Donald Trump personally beheaded the Dalai Lamai while Putin applauded and told him that his training is now complete, now go and be President, and all he has to do is yell “Fake News”, and just under half the people in the country will believe him because they consider him the only trustworthy source of information.
These problems don’t go away IF Mueller gets a smoking gun and IF Mueller convinces the House (this one or the next) to take action and IF there is actual follow-through. Once Trump stops being President, one way or another, we still have to deal with the fact that millions of people are immune to facts. Mueller getting Trump to face some kind of consequences for all his criminal actions is half a step in the right direction on a walk from LA to New York.
We all know Trump and his family and appointees are guilty of crimes, and there potentially being consequences down the road for those crimes is something that gives us hope. But for just under half the country, this is a partisan Witch Hunt and a result which does anything other than completely exonerate everybody involved is outrageous. No amount of proof is going to convince them otherwise. We need to figure out how to fix that, but systemic issues are always more difficult to solve than single target issues. “Get Trump indicted”, while seemingly improbable by itself, is infinitely easier than, “Convince half the country that facts are real and that they’ve been duped their whole lives, and Trump was just the con man that pulled the wool over their eyes most recently”.
Not to mention trying to convince the rest of the world that America is in any way trustworthy after all those bridges ignorance has burned.