Man, I would actually like to be able to do the challenges post prepatch just to see if they are harder. But I am done most of them and only have like 2 more classes I intend to even work up to be able to.
I feel like whenever they’ve referred to the cutoff point it’s been BfA release
It's been the 8.0 drop I'm pretty sure. The moment that happens, the mage tower should be shutting down.
Nyht on
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Now the conflicting sides scares me. I still want to finish monk and warrior and both are close but not there yet. Been super focused on my Shaman because I love it.
Also, I have been wondering what the hell they would do with the gold missions in class halls. In the beta no one had reported any changes yet. Now with the PTR for 8.0, some people said the only change was the initial reward going to like 200-300 gold. The bonus is still the same though. If that stick around hmmmmmmmmmm. I mean, they had announced AND put the garrison change on legion beta pretty much at conception. At this point with a legit prepatch going into testing we might be seeing what we will get.
I am tempted to just load characters up on resources now and take the gamble of it being worth it.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
There are gold missions in BFA too.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Yeah but a lot of us have tons of characters perfectly set up right now. I for sure won't let myself fall behind on those new ones, but if the gold farm can keep rolling even after prepatch and beyond that is huge. I got in late so I have only made like 600-700k or so on this thing.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
So my brother canceled his account/s and was not given the Why are you leaving? prompt Which I find both curious and sad as I feel I think Blizzard knows by now BFA is a turd just driving people away as there is only one person I have know for years still playing and that's due because they are locked in because their account is set charge every 6 months
In general I really have no idea why they let it get this far without flushing it as I only know of a few people that are looking forward to it everyone else is looking for something else to do
That's certainly an opinion.
I and my guildies in beta really like it and find it to be continuation of all the good things from Legion.
A lot of the "Vanilla or unsub!" crowd are already complaining. Apparently 1.12 is far too late in the Vanilla cycle for their taste (all major raids already unlocked) and won't let them experience all the masochistic thrills of the original Vanilla experience.
I honestly don't know what to make of the Classic crowd. I certainly enjoy some nostalgia gaming myself, but the Classic crowd seems more motivated by their dislike of current WoW than love of the old days. I mean... a substantial number of them hate transmog, FFS. How can you hate transmog? It's the true endgame.
1.9 was AQ, 1.10 was cool weather and armor upgrades, 1.11 was naxx, 1.12 was the global pvp pool and content bugfixes
what's wrong with having all the content?
I can see maybe making an argument for 1.11, but something tells me they're going to go with 1.12 because it matches better with how their current architecture is.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
1.9 was AQ, 1.10 was cool weather and armor upgrades, 1.11 was naxx, 1.12 was the global pvp pool and content bugfixes
what's wrong with having all the content?
I can see maybe making an argument for 1.11, but something tells me they're going to go with 1.12 because it matches better with how their current architecture is.
They want to gear up from scratch, do all the original attunements, unlock AQ the hard way, etc.
A lot of the "Vanilla or unsub!" crowd are already complaining. Apparently 1.12 is far too late in the Vanilla cycle for their taste (all major raids already unlocked) and won't let them experience all the masochistic thrills of the original Vanilla experience.
I honestly don't know what to make of the Classic crowd. I certainly enjoy some nostalgia gaming myself, but the Classic crowd seems more motivated by their dislike of current WoW than love of the old days. I mean... a substantial number of them hate transmog, FFS. How can you hate transmog? It's the true endgame.
Oh lord I had it in with a few of them once. The vocal members of the Vanilla fanclub are absolutely impossible to converse with. Not only do they have very specific pinpoint opinions of what THEIR vanilla wow should be, but they become almost violently irrational when anyone tries to oppose their vision. Even if they do so by trying to state opinions and say so.
I dunno, the ones I tried to talk about a subject with about it before (not here) made me question humanity. It was horrid. I know there are likely decent people out there who will play, but man if the first line of defense for this thing isn't atrocious.
A lot of the "Vanilla or unsub!" crowd are already complaining. Apparently 1.12 is far too late in the Vanilla cycle for their taste (all major raids already unlocked) and won't let them experience all the masochistic thrills of the original Vanilla experience.
I honestly don't know what to make of the Classic crowd. I certainly enjoy some nostalgia gaming myself, but the Classic crowd seems more motivated by their dislike of current WoW than love of the old days. I mean... a substantial number of them hate transmog, FFS. How can you hate transmog? It's the true endgame.
Oh lord I had it in with a few of them once. The vocal members of the Vanilla fanclub are absolutely impossible to converse with. Not only do they have very specific pinpoint opinions of what THEIR vanilla wow should be, but they become almost violently irrational when anyone tries to oppose their vision. Even if they do so by trying to state opinions and say so.
I dunno, the ones I tried to talk about a subject with about it before (not here) made me question humanity. It was horrid. I know there are likely decent people out there who will play, but man if the first line of defense for this thing isn't atrocious.
I'm excited for vanilla and even I think the crowd is crazy. Like i went to look at the classicwow subreddit when it first was announced and it's just terrible. I almost want to play vanilla even more now so i can just make an undead rogue and kill all of those people.
I resubbed to get ready for the xpac and maaaan Dark Iron seems dead. Are they doing any sort of server combining when BFA hits?
I think since sometime during Legion, all zones... except maybe capital city zones? are dynamically cross-realm now, so the servers should be squeezing you in with a few other servers until the algorithm thinks the player density in that instance of the zone is high enough. At least I think that's how it works.
If it isn't cross-realm-zoning capital city zones that might be why it looked dead, I'm not sure if they are or not.
Oh hey, neat thing about transmogging artifact appearances in the beta
it's still spec-specific, but you can mix and match. So if you're like me and like the shields on the paladin/warrior appearances, but hate flails, you can use the shield from the mage tower, and then any weapon you want in the main hand.
As a programmer, have to say it: Damn, that old DB structure was atrocious. Incredibly inneficient.
TryCatcher on
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Yeah I have a lot of experience with DBs, but also that was from 2004 written in likely 2003 or earlier. Hell they started with the WC3 engine so it might have even used the same thing as that. I could still see that original happening if you just didn't plan to really expand things as much as they did.
It also does kind of explain why spells and skills were able to make a huge jump in complexity later on.
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The SiegeGame DeveloperOakland CARegistered User, ClubPAregular
Who cares it's just static data, it's just gonna sit in RAM after the server boot anyway. They probably did it like that because it was fast to implement and WoW barely shipped on time as it is.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
That's.. Not how dbs work man
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The SiegeGame DeveloperOakland CARegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2018
Those tables are spell definitions, not user data. They are static. It never changes unless they patch the entire game.
e: In any sane implementation of that sort the storage of the data is not going to be important, because it only needs to be loaded once on server boot and cached into RAM indefinitely. They were definitely not doing a database read every time somebody casts a fireball, that would cripple the system. The source data just needed somewhere permanent to live and they already had DBs set up, but really it could have been a text file, xml, or some custom format for the source data storage. It ultimately doesn't matter by the time it reaches the game code.
The main advantage they get from the new format is extensibility. But the original server had extreme performance limitations so they probably didn't want to enable infinitely complex spell scaling anyway as enforcing a tight limit on per-spell code execution helps keep performance predictable.
Remember hotfixing was not possible until later in the game's life, which I presume correlates with them switching from that launch database style to their current style. So if that's the case, no, that data will need to be read constantly so hotfixes are properly reflected.
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The SiegeGame DeveloperOakland CARegistered User, ClubPAregular
Hotfix system is just going to propagate a cache wipe, possibly server process reboots. Remember, reading from a SQL database is incredibly expensive and a performant server system will go to great lengths to do it as little as possible.
The system still has to look up the data in those tables constantly even if it doesn't change it, reading speed efficiency adds up fast in a database you are taking values from 10000 times a second.
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The SiegeGame DeveloperOakland CARegistered User, ClubPAregular
The system still has to look up the data in those tables constantly even if it doesn't change it, reading speed efficiency adds up fast in a database you are taking values from 10000 times a second.
What do you mean constantly? Are you saying the structure of the spells table would impact the read performance on other unrelated systems in the same DB? Or are you saying that the spell table must be read 10000 times per second?
I'm pulling the 10000 number out of my ass but I'm basing it on my assumption that the server needs to read that database at least once and possibly multiple times each time a player or mob casts a spell anywhere in the game world
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The SiegeGame DeveloperOakland CARegistered User, ClubPAregular
I'm pulling the 10000 number out of my ass but I'm basing it on my assumption that the server needs to read that database at least once and possibly multiple times each time a player or mob casts a spell anywhere in the game world
Ah I see, this is what I've been trying to explain. The server doesn't need to read the database when a player or mob casts a spell. Instead, what the server will do is read the table once when the server is starting up. It will store that data in variable object in the C++ code; essentially it lives in RAM, temporarily. Then, when a player or mob casts a spell, it will read the data directly from the variable. Reading from a variable in the code is much, much faster and more efficient than looking it up in the database. In fact it's so much faster that this technique would be completely necessary to write a performant game server in 1999 (wow dev begins), and possibly even today!
Because this data is static and doesn't ever change except in extenuating circumstances, such as the deployment of a hotfix or patch, it can live in RAM for a very very long time, weeks or months even, without ever having to read from the database.
I'm pulling the 10000 number out of my ass but I'm basing it on my assumption that the server needs to read that database at least once and possibly multiple times each time a player or mob casts a spell anywhere in the game world
Ah I see, this is what I've been trying to explain. The server doesn't need to read the database when a player or mob casts a spell. Instead, what the server will do is read the table once when the server is starting up. It will store that data in variable object in the C++ code; essentially it lives in RAM, temporarily. Then, when a player or mob casts a spell, it will read the data directly from the variable. Reading from a variable in the code is much, much faster and more efficient than looking it up in the database. In fact it's so much faster that this technique would be completely necessary to write a performant game server in 1999 (wow dev begins), and possibly even today!
Because this data is static and doesn't ever change except in extenuating circumstances, such as the deployment of a hotfix or patch, it can live in RAM for a very very long time, weeks or months even, without ever having to read from the database.
I've never really made a Horde character and figure that's a good candidate for a 110 boost from preordering. All my alliance stuff is on one server, is there anything I'd lose on a new server since most stuff is account wide and cross server now?
I've never really made a Horde character and figure that's a good candidate for a 110 boost from preordering. All my alliance stuff is on one server, is there anything I'd lose on a new server since most stuff is account wide and cross server now?
You're fine, but keep in they give you more character slots now because of DH and allied races.
I've never really made a Horde character and figure that's a good candidate for a 110 boost from preordering. All my alliance stuff is on one server, is there anything I'd lose on a new server since most stuff is account wide and cross server now?
You're fine, but keep in they give you more character slots now because of DH and allied races.
So I can keep everything on the same server, it doesn't really matter either way? Horde's more populous on my server anyway.
I've never really made a Horde character and figure that's a good candidate for a 110 boost from preordering. All my alliance stuff is on one server, is there anything I'd lose on a new server since most stuff is account wide and cross server now?
You're fine, but keep in they give you more character slots now because of DH and allied races.
So I can keep everything on the same server, it doesn't really matter either way? Horde's more populous on my server anyway.
Depends on how many you have already but the cap now it's like 14 or 16 iirc.
just got chased off of the last add by ruiner, and was running back, the tank that didn't have boss runs up next to me, gets aggro, and then gets hit with a forging strike killing me.
Tank then complains about people standing on top of him and getting hit.
I'm pulling the 10000 number out of my ass but I'm basing it on my assumption that the server needs to read that database at least once and possibly multiple times each time a player or mob casts a spell anywhere in the game world
Ah I see, this is what I've been trying to explain. The server doesn't need to read the database when a player or mob casts a spell. Instead, what the server will do is read the table once when the server is starting up. It will store that data in variable object in the C++ code; essentially it lives in RAM, temporarily. Then, when a player or mob casts a spell, it will read the data directly from the variable. Reading from a variable in the code is much, much faster and more efficient than looking it up in the database. In fact it's so much faster that this technique would be completely necessary to write a performant game server in 1999 (wow dev begins), and possibly even today!
Because this data is static and doesn't ever change except in extenuating circumstances, such as the deployment of a hotfix or patch, it can live in RAM for a very very long time, weeks or months even, without ever having to read from the database.
Well, yes it does sit in memory, but referential keys and indexing will play a large part in the speed of access regardless of that.
Though, actually, having it all in one table will likely be faster however you're limited in what you can do or add to spells because of that (The 3 effects because it was the actual DDL of the table itself).
But that's horizontal vs vertical table differences and meh I doubt the changes improved performance much. Though with tens of millions of queries every few minutes it might be meaningful.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I've never really made a Horde character and figure that's a good candidate for a 110 boost from preordering. All my alliance stuff is on one server, is there anything I'd lose on a new server since most stuff is account wide and cross server now?
You're fine, but keep in they give you more character slots now because of DH and allied races.
So I can keep everything on the same server, it doesn't really matter either way? Horde's more populous on my server anyway.
You don't have to keep everything on the same server unless you want to, everything you can keep between horde and alliance you keep between all servers, basically the only thing you can't do cross-faction is transfer gold and items in the mail. Mounts, heirlooms, and achievements are all carried over, including the achievements that unlock flying in WoD and Legion and the rep achievements for the pre-released allied race unlocks.
Also if you're looking for a server to roll a horde character on I recommend Cho'gall :rotate: It won't even be a PvP server anymore come BFA time!
I think a lot of the flaws he points out are also 'flaws' with artifact power, but they're flaws that nobody actually cares about.
like if there's a catchup system that brings people up to the current level every tier that's... good? It's also been the status quo for several expansions. But suddenly it's a fatal flaw
Also if you look at legion they are not afraid to pretty drastically change up AP gain and numbers needed patch to patch. They were doing that actively throughout legion.
Yeah, they're going to make the mage tower open 24/7 at some point, but with 8.0 coming in just a few weeks, with it also comes breaking all our artifacts, which might render many of the mage tower challenges impossible anyway.
The mage tower goes away as soon as prepatch hits. You won't need to worry about broken artifacts or stat squish once those happen the tower is locked and gone anyway.
Posts
It's been the 8.0 drop I'm pretty sure. The moment that happens, the mage tower should be shutting down.
Also, I have been wondering what the hell they would do with the gold missions in class halls. In the beta no one had reported any changes yet. Now with the PTR for 8.0, some people said the only change was the initial reward going to like 200-300 gold. The bonus is still the same though. If that stick around hmmmmmmmmmm. I mean, they had announced AND put the garrison change on legion beta pretty much at conception. At this point with a legit prepatch going into testing we might be seeing what we will get.
I am tempted to just load characters up on resources now and take the gamble of it being worth it.
http://www.wowhead.com/news=284983/dev-watercooler-world-of-warcraft-classic?webhook/dev-watercooler-world-of-warcraft-classic
That's certainly an opinion.
I and my guildies in beta really like it and find it to be continuation of all the good things from Legion.
A lot of the "Vanilla or unsub!" crowd are already complaining. Apparently 1.12 is far too late in the Vanilla cycle for their taste (all major raids already unlocked) and won't let them experience all the masochistic thrills of the original Vanilla experience.
I honestly don't know what to make of the Classic crowd. I certainly enjoy some nostalgia gaming myself, but the Classic crowd seems more motivated by their dislike of current WoW than love of the old days. I mean... a substantial number of them hate transmog, FFS. How can you hate transmog? It's the true endgame.
what's wrong with having all the content?
I can see maybe making an argument for 1.11, but something tells me they're going to go with 1.12 because it matches better with how their current architecture is.
They want to gear up from scratch, do all the original attunements, unlock AQ the hard way, etc.
I’m not surprised there were complaints though, they’d have gotten complaints no matter what patch was used
Oh lord I had it in with a few of them once. The vocal members of the Vanilla fanclub are absolutely impossible to converse with. Not only do they have very specific pinpoint opinions of what THEIR vanilla wow should be, but they become almost violently irrational when anyone tries to oppose their vision. Even if they do so by trying to state opinions and say so.
I dunno, the ones I tried to talk about a subject with about it before (not here) made me question humanity. It was horrid. I know there are likely decent people out there who will play, but man if the first line of defense for this thing isn't atrocious.
I'm really really hoping a lot of new WoW Classic players get stunlocked to death by angry Barrens Kodos.
I'm excited for vanilla and even I think the crowd is crazy. Like i went to look at the classicwow subreddit when it first was announced and it's just terrible. I almost want to play vanilla even more now so i can just make an undead rogue and kill all of those people.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
But I thought it was just a matter of digging out source code and hosting it on a server? Job done! That's what the internet people told me!
I think since sometime during Legion, all zones... except maybe capital city zones? are dynamically cross-realm now, so the servers should be squeezing you in with a few other servers until the algorithm thinks the player density in that instance of the zone is high enough. At least I think that's how it works.
If it isn't cross-realm-zoning capital city zones that might be why it looked dead, I'm not sure if they are or not.
it's still spec-specific, but you can mix and match. So if you're like me and like the shields on the paladin/warrior appearances, but hate flails, you can use the shield from the mage tower, and then any weapon you want in the main hand.
As a programmer, have to say it: Damn, that old DB structure was atrocious. Incredibly inneficient.
It also does kind of explain why spells and skills were able to make a huge jump in complexity later on.
I am also known as Vontre.
e: In any sane implementation of that sort the storage of the data is not going to be important, because it only needs to be loaded once on server boot and cached into RAM indefinitely. They were definitely not doing a database read every time somebody casts a fireball, that would cripple the system. The source data just needed somewhere permanent to live and they already had DBs set up, but really it could have been a text file, xml, or some custom format for the source data storage. It ultimately doesn't matter by the time it reaches the game code.
The main advantage they get from the new format is extensibility. But the original server had extreme performance limitations so they probably didn't want to enable infinitely complex spell scaling anyway as enforcing a tight limit on per-spell code execution helps keep performance predictable.
I am also known as Vontre.
I am also known as Vontre.
What do you mean constantly? Are you saying the structure of the spells table would impact the read performance on other unrelated systems in the same DB? Or are you saying that the spell table must be read 10000 times per second?
I am also known as Vontre.
Ah I see, this is what I've been trying to explain. The server doesn't need to read the database when a player or mob casts a spell. Instead, what the server will do is read the table once when the server is starting up. It will store that data in variable object in the C++ code; essentially it lives in RAM, temporarily. Then, when a player or mob casts a spell, it will read the data directly from the variable. Reading from a variable in the code is much, much faster and more efficient than looking it up in the database. In fact it's so much faster that this technique would be completely necessary to write a performant game server in 1999 (wow dev begins), and possibly even today!
Because this data is static and doesn't ever change except in extenuating circumstances, such as the deployment of a hotfix or patch, it can live in RAM for a very very long time, weeks or months even, without ever having to read from the database.
I am also known as Vontre.
oh I see, yeah that makes sense
You're fine, but keep in they give you more character slots now because of DH and allied races.
So I can keep everything on the same server, it doesn't really matter either way? Horde's more populous on my server anyway.
Depends on how many you have already but the cap now it's like 14 or 16 iirc.
just got chased off of the last add by ruiner, and was running back, the tank that didn't have boss runs up next to me, gets aggro, and then gets hit with a forging strike killing me.
Tank then complains about people standing on top of him and getting hit.
Well, yes it does sit in memory, but referential keys and indexing will play a large part in the speed of access regardless of that.
Though, actually, having it all in one table will likely be faster however you're limited in what you can do or add to spells because of that (The 3 effects because it was the actual DDL of the table itself).
But that's horizontal vs vertical table differences and meh I doubt the changes improved performance much. Though with tens of millions of queries every few minutes it might be meaningful.
You don't have to keep everything on the same server unless you want to, everything you can keep between horde and alliance you keep between all servers, basically the only thing you can't do cross-faction is transfer gold and items in the mail. Mounts, heirlooms, and achievements are all carried over, including the achievements that unlock flying in WoD and Legion and the rep achievements for the pre-released allied race unlocks.
Also if you're looking for a server to roll a horde character on I recommend Cho'gall :rotate: It won't even be a PvP server anymore come BFA time!
Also if you look at legion they are not afraid to pretty drastically change up AP gain and numbers needed patch to patch. They were doing that actively throughout legion.
The mage tower goes away as soon as prepatch hits. You won't need to worry about broken artifacts or stat squish once those happen the tower is locked and gone anyway.