Are those soldiers going down there for 2 months? Because these people are still a long way from the border. They won't be here until way after the election.
Yeah I feel like this massive waste of resources purely to drive votes ought to be impeachable. They aren't even implementing any actual hateful policy, just treating the troops as dogs and ponies. They might as well have been ordered to go door-to-door to GOTV for R candidates.
I've been reading a lot of conservative articles, and they are taking this weird imaginary take on "Subject to the jurisdiction."
And it's like the most bizarre set of hand-waving and deliberate ignorance. It's like when I read briefs written by sovereign citizens.
And it's just, that's not what that means, and even if that were what that meant, the framers explicitly gave congress the power to decide that.
Is the president going to sign the executive order last minute and say those peoples votes now don't count and try to get their votes tossed?
I'm just sad and confused by all of this.
If it is the argument I think it is, it is the same that was used for Wong Kim Ark, that "jurisdiction" meant in personam jurisdiction, (i.e. jurisdiction over a citizen) rather than geographical jurisdiction. IIRC This was largely based on the fact that rulers in Europe used to be called "King of the [people]" rather than "King of [country]", and that some of the senators at the time of the drafting saying they really didn't want it to include *everyone* born in the US.
Of course, it's also the argument which the same Scotus that ruled on Plessy v. Ferguson rejected. In part because the common understanding of jurisdiction in the English-speaking word in regards to Citizenship was established back in 1608 in England, and became US common law in one of the first acts of the very first Congress to start off US common law practice right from the moment they broke with Great Britain, and had been completely unquestioned since then. Later part also putting the citizenship of most of the US whose ancestors immigrated here after 1776 in doubt. (The dissenters realized this as well, and came up with an opinion Scalia would be proud of, essentially claiming Chinese law (capital crime at the time for Chinese citizens to renounce their allegiance to the Emperor) trumped US law in the US.)
So yeah, not only does in falter under the 14th amendment, it goes against a common law precedent that's only one year younger than Jamestown.
Other way around, I think. Pre-revolutionary king Louis XVI was King of France, while post-revolutionary king Louis Philippe I was King of the French. (Not totally positive of the rest of Europe.)
IIRC The Anglo-Saxon kings of England would call themselves "King of the English", or "King of the Anglo-Saxons" when the Danelaw was still around.
Because of how decentralized power was in most of the Middle Ages, a king couldn't really call themselves the king of a *place* unless the people there (or their rulers) were paying homage to him. King of France, for example, wasn't used until the King of the Franks Philip Augustus managed to wrest Northern France from England.
Still, if King of the French was still in vogue for a little bit of the 19th century, it just means that instead of "used to" it was "sometimes." And still basically relies on you pretending that English common law doesn't exist.
Louis-Philippe was the only person to use "King of the French" (to associate himself with the burgeoning nationalistic feelings of the time and to accept the notion that his power came from his people, not the land). Ancient French kings used "King of the Franks", also to reflect the elective nature of the ancient monarchy (though through noble election, rather than commoners). The title "King of France" used in-between during the period of strong central control was meant to emphasize that the king derived his right to rule from God alone, not from the permission of his subjects.
Are those soldiers going down there for 2 months? Because these people are still a long way from the border. They won't be here until way after the election.
Those soldiers are going to be there for a good, long time. And if the border looks secure enough, they'll just have to find something else immigration-related to do.
You're going to have a pissed off military if their down there for the holidays for this bullshit. Yes, you miss a lot of holidays in the military, and sometimes it's for stupid reasons. But this would take the cake
You're going to have a pissed off military if their down there for the holidays for this bullshit. Yes, you miss a lot of holidays in the military, and sometimes it's for stupid reasons. But this would take the cake
They'll be so mad they just might have to help ICE raid a border town or two to relieve some tension.
As long as he can make a show of it before then that's all that matters
I wish I could believe it was just for show.
Divorce ourselves from our national egotism and the undying belief that It Can't Happen Here.
Imaginistan has a relatively recently elected president who is wildly unpopular but managed to squeeze power on the back of the majority ethnic group. He's stoking up tensions with minority ethnic groups in all the classic racist ways. Now he's mobilizing a bunch of troops in the interior of the country, with a completely made-up "crisis" as an excuse.
As long as he can make a show of it before then that's all that matters
I wish I could believe it was just for show.
Divorce ourselves from our national egotism and the undying belief that It Can't Happen Here.
Imaginistan has a relatively recently elected president who is wildly unpopular but managed to squeeze power on the back of the majority ethnic group. He's stoking up tensions with minority ethnic groups in all the classic racist ways. Now he's mobilizing a bunch of troops in the interior of the country, with a completely made-up "crisis" as an excuse.
This isn't an argument against birthright citizenship for just undocumented immigrants, and people who don't think this is about the children of immigrants in general are fooling themselves.
The only point to sending combat troops to the border is to shoot those who try to cross. Either that or political theater. Therefore Trump is either about to commit an atrocity or waste the military’s time.
The only point to sending combat troops to the border is to shoot those who try to cross. Either that or political theater. Therefore Trump is either about to commit an atrocity or waste the military’s time.
If you just want to commit an atrocity you'd wait for at least another month.
Like I'm not surprised if he keeps them there the whole time, but they are going there right now purely as a political stunt.
I give it three days before the periphery of the right starts applying the same logic to migrants already here.
Three days? That's the standard way they've been referring to undocumented immigrants for years, and a lot of them are pretty comfortable using the same language to describe second or third-generation descendants of immigrants.
Trump is really controlling the Republican imagination here. They are imagining 5000 people pouring over the border like a horde of zombies from “The Walking Dead.” In reality, they are probably planning to either surrender at the border or sneak over a few at a time, because the border patrol would notice 5000 people.
It’s hard to deal with that sort of ability to really provoke the fears of dumb, racist people. Like most of Trump’s lies, they are uninterested in the truth of the matter: it’s what feels powerful to them.
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
I give it three days before the periphery of the right starts applying the same logic to migrants already here.
Three days? That's the standard way they've been referring to undocumented immigrants for years, and a lot of them are pretty comfortable using the same language to describe second or third-generation descendants of immigrants.
Only the non-white ones. People whose grandparents came over from Ireland in 1953 are fine.
I give it three days before the periphery of the right starts applying the same logic to migrants already here.
Three days? That's the standard way they've been referring to undocumented immigrants for years, and a lot of them are pretty comfortable using the same language to describe second or third-generation descendants of immigrants.
Only the non-white ones. People whose grandparents came over from Ireland in 1953 are fine.
You mean, people whos cousin came over with a melanin deficiency on Tuesday are fine.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Nah, they were already saying that. This is the media asking the president to confirm he believes this shit. Get him on record.
Getting Trump on the record saying horrible shit doesn't require a reporter asking tough questions, just follow him on Twitter and take screen caps. He didn't even manage to get a clear yes from the guy, so good job with asking a value neutral question about an anti-semitic conspiracy theory and not even managing to get a gotcha moment out of it.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
I'd like to think the military officers in charge would refuse orders to commit such a gross atrocity.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
I'd like to think the military officers in charge would refuse orders to commit such a gross atrocity.
My limited understanding of the situation is that firing on them before they cross the border is functionally an act of war against Mexico, and once they're on our soil there's that whole they aren't allowed to enforce federal laws thing.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
I'd like to think the military officers in charge would refuse orders to commit such a gross atrocity.
My limited understanding of the situation is that firing on them before they cross the border is functionally an act of war against Mexico, and once they're on our soil there's that whole they aren't allowed to enforce federal laws thing.
GOP Rep. Mark Sanford: Haitian babies born in US don’t deserve birthrights because they are not ‘former slaves’
Sanford continues to manage to be absolutely awful.
For a man who hands out pocket Constitutions at Halloween (yes, really), he seems to not have actually read it.
I suspect it's more like extreme fundamentalists and the Bible; holds it up as the thing that justifies their actions while ignoring all the parts that directly contradict the shit they espouse.
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
I'd like to think the military officers in charge would refuse orders to commit such a gross atrocity.
My limited understanding of the situation is that firing on them before they cross the border is functionally an act of war against Mexico, and once they're on our soil there's that whole they aren't allowed to enforce federal laws thing.
When the guy giving the order says he can magically remove parts of the Constitution, I wouldn’t bet any lives on mere Federal laws.
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
I'd like to think the military officers in charge would refuse orders to commit such a gross atrocity.
My limited understanding of the situation is that firing on them before they cross the border is functionally an act of war against Mexico, and once they're on our soil there's that whole they aren't allowed to enforce federal laws thing.
When the guy giving the order says he can magically remove parts of the Constitution, I wouldn’t bet any lives on mere Federal laws.
Admittedly not as solid a defense as we might like, isn't our military obligated to not follow unlawful orders?
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
I'd like to think the military officers in charge would refuse orders to commit such a gross atrocity.
My limited understanding of the situation is that firing on them before they cross the border is functionally an act of war against Mexico, and once they're on our soil there's that whole they aren't allowed to enforce federal laws thing.
Correct. And I would bet my paycheck St. Mattis is making sure every commander involved in this shit show is 100% briefed on what they can and cannot do, up to and including what the USAF will and will not do.
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
I'd like to think the military officers in charge would refuse orders to commit such a gross atrocity.
My limited understanding of the situation is that firing on them before they cross the border is functionally an act of war against Mexico, and once they're on our soil there's that whole they aren't allowed to enforce federal laws thing.
Correct. And I would bet my paycheck St. Mattis is making sure every commander involved in this shit show is 100% briefed on what they can and cannot do, up to and including what the USAF will and will not do.
Eh, if he was actually smart about it had have the troups back in their bases because border security isn't their damn job.
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
I'd like to think the military officers in charge would refuse orders to commit such a gross atrocity.
My limited understanding of the situation is that firing on them before they cross the border is functionally an act of war against Mexico, and once they're on our soil there's that whole they aren't allowed to enforce federal laws thing.
Correct. And I would bet my paycheck St. Mattis is making sure every commander involved in this shit show is 100% briefed on what they can and cannot do, up to and including what the USAF will and will not do.
Eh, if he was actually smart about it had have the troups back in their bases because border security isn't their damn job.
I have no doubt he tried explaining that to Trump, I have zero doubt Trump gave no fucks at all. Best Mattis can do is attempt to manage things from behind the scenes.
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Louis-Philippe was the only person to use "King of the French" (to associate himself with the burgeoning nationalistic feelings of the time and to accept the notion that his power came from his people, not the land). Ancient French kings used "King of the Franks", also to reflect the elective nature of the ancient monarchy (though through noble election, rather than commoners). The title "King of France" used in-between during the period of strong central control was meant to emphasize that the king derived his right to rule from God alone, not from the permission of his subjects.
Those soldiers are going to be there for a good, long time. And if the border looks secure enough, they'll just have to find something else immigration-related to do.
They'll be so mad they just might have to help ICE raid a border town or two to relieve some tension.
I wish I could believe it was just for show.
Divorce ourselves from our national egotism and the undying belief that It Can't Happen Here.
Imaginistan has a relatively recently elected president who is wildly unpopular but managed to squeeze power on the back of the majority ethnic group. He's stoking up tensions with minority ethnic groups in all the classic racist ways. Now he's mobilizing a bunch of troops in the interior of the country, with a completely made-up "crisis" as an excuse.
What do you think happens next in Imaginistan?
They annex Imaginuevo Imageon
This isn't an argument against birthright citizenship for just undocumented immigrants, and people who don't think this is about the children of immigrants in general are fooling themselves.
They were murdered partly because they supported refugees!
Seriously. The shooter explicitly mentioned HIAS as one of his 'inspirations' for attacking the synagogue.
This fucking guy.
It's a crazy idea if you are a white supremacist. And that's what Trump and his admin and the Republican party are.
If you just want to commit an atrocity you'd wait for at least another month.
Like I'm not surprised if he keeps them there the whole time, but they are going there right now purely as a political stunt.
ABC News is a news organization
And there's the money quote, saw it coming a mile away. Migrants coming from Mexico are "an invasion."
I give it three days before the periphery of the right starts applying the same logic to migrants already here.
Three days? That's the standard way they've been referring to undocumented immigrants for years, and a lot of them are pretty comfortable using the same language to describe second or third-generation descendants of immigrants.
It’s hard to deal with that sort of ability to really provoke the fears of dumb, racist people. Like most of Trump’s lies, they are uninterested in the truth of the matter: it’s what feels powerful to them.
If Trump did order the refugees all to be shot at the border, most of his supporters would feel relieved that they were safe in their beds. They might regret that it had to be done, but they would blame it on the refugees. It was kill or be killed.
Only the non-white ones. People whose grandparents came over from Ireland in 1953 are fine.
You mean, people whos cousin came over with a melanin deficiency on Tuesday are fine.
MWO: Adamski
Getting Trump on the record saying horrible shit doesn't require a reporter asking tough questions, just follow him on Twitter and take screen caps. He didn't even manage to get a clear yes from the guy, so good job with asking a value neutral question about an anti-semitic conspiracy theory and not even managing to get a gotcha moment out of it.
Yes. Haiti, the country that is totally notable for not ever* having slavery.
* Ignoring all years between 1492 and 1804.
I'd like to think the military officers in charge would refuse orders to commit such a gross atrocity.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
For a man who hands out pocket Constitutions at Halloween (yes, really), he seems to not have actually read it.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
And what Mexico can do about it, exactly?
I suspect it's more like extreme fundamentalists and the Bible; holds it up as the thing that justifies their actions while ignoring all the parts that directly contradict the shit they espouse.
When the guy giving the order says he can magically remove parts of the Constitution, I wouldn’t bet any lives on mere Federal laws.
Nah it was on this trajectory for quite some time. Just so happens a lot of people are finally starting to catch on to it.
“How did you go bankrupt?"
Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”
― Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Correct. And I would bet my paycheck St. Mattis is making sure every commander involved in this shit show is 100% briefed on what they can and cannot do, up to and including what the USAF will and will not do.
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Eh, if he was actually smart about it had have the troups back in their bases because border security isn't their damn job.
Americans didn't suddenly become racist, the racists are just being louder than they've been allowed to be.
I have no doubt he tried explaining that to Trump, I have zero doubt Trump gave no fucks at all. Best Mattis can do is attempt to manage things from behind the scenes.
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