Brainstorming a 5th ed character and I have questions. The Paladin/Warlock is a popular combo, how many levels of Paladin are recommended before the fall from grace? And as for the Warlock side of things, is it recommended to go Blade Pact, Hexblade Patron, both, or neither?
Brainstorming a 5th ed character and I have questions. The Paladin/Warlock is a popular combo, how many levels of Paladin are recommended before the fall from grace? And as for the Warlock side of things, is it recommended to go Blade Pact, Hexblade Patron, both, or neither?
I'm not super up on the intricacies of min/max multiclassing, but I know for sure that what a Paladin wants out of Warlock is Hexblade so they can say fuck Strength and go super Charisma. (Keep in mind you still need 13 Strength to be able to multiclass RAW)
So about a year ago i started DMimg Curse of Strahd. I took some time off for a family thing and work trips, and some chunks of time me and another player were swapping DM duties with him doing Waterdeep on alternate weeks. Playing once a week otherwise, for about 2.5 to 3 hours each time.
We are finally in "endgame" where the characters are running around the castle and are determined to stick around until they kill Strahd, even as they have run super low on resources they're like "let's go in deeper" and ignoring my "are you sure"s, to the point i expect soon a TPW because they are running on fumes at this point. Which would be not great, having them reroll now.
But I'm not going to stop then either. And the NPCs have motivations and lives of their own, regardless of what the PCs are doing.
When we first started, they got their card reading, and 1 item
the book
was in Argynvostholt. They got it by doing the quest given out there. The other 2 were in the castle in areas they hadn't been yet and we're scared to go to, one
the sword
in a crypt in the lower left corner of the crypts, and the other
the amount
at the peak of the North tower. Ironically, none of them can use this last one for to class/alignment issues, be and the closest one who might have took herself off the list in Amber Temple.
I also rolled the simpleton to be their companion (which i retconned into referring to Ismark after pool on Krezk event), and for Strahd i got the DM choice card which i decided at the time a year ago would be
Sergei's tomb
A couple of sessions ago they snuck in to the crypt
through the crypt of Strahd's parents window to the outside
. They succeeded in all their saving throws against Strahd spying on them, then one of them used an ability they gained in Amber Temple
scry, on Esmeralda which had been captured and turned into a Vampire Spawn some sessions earlier, which Strahd intercepted that scry with his Barovia spell alterations, and learned they were coming and which way
so that didn't go great for them, not that they knew it.
Anyway, they make it in there, and decide to explore counterclockwise along the wall, looking for the crypt that was foretold in the cards. Yeah, some of you that have ran this adventure can probably tell where this is going. Yup, they made almost a beeline for Strahd, who was hanging out with Esmeralda and two Blood Knight vampires at the place I determined a year ago. Combat ensued, and they managed to kill all but Strahd, who ran away laughing at the good time he was having. They took this as unambiguous victory despite me keeping them in initiative order and triggering Strahd's lair actions every round as they desecrated
Sergei's grave thinking it was Strahd's, then chopped up his body to get his+2 plate armor off faster
, looted Esmeralda, and investigated tombs.
They heard footsteps coming down one corridor and used stoneshape to block it. Did they leave now? No, they kept checking out crypts, and find the special item. At some point i dropped them out of initiative (Strahd left to deal with the distraction the players had arranged for earlier, an elf revolt, and players had completely forgotten they did that one session prior). They fought Escher as a Bloodmist vampire (they had killed him on the roof some months ago) and a couple of feral vampires.
Then more undead of various types started showing up from an opening too large to stone shape. They hid in one of the crypts (instead of leaving) and used rope trick to get a short rest. When they came out an hour later (most of them carrying torches, one of them carrying something much brighter), they were attacked by the patrols of undead Strahd had looking for them. In the meantime, i had Strahd hanging up dead elf corpses to feed blood to
the heart, since the characters earlier had depleted the temps
.
They killed those patrols and went through the corridor that they had blocked off earlier with stoneshape, which at some point in the last hour the undead had broken open. They made it to the brasier room. Some of you can guess what happened next. Yup, they got the other item (that nobody can use).
For next week, I'm trying to decide if, when they take the stairs down, if Strahd will be there still, it off he will have left already and makes his way back when they do what they do in that area.
Sorry if this all reads vague, i don't want to spoil it for anyone playing the module, and anyone DMing it will know exactly what happening.
Oh yeah the party is all lvl 9 and are:
- human Barbarian that hears voices of ancestors, party tank. 25 str after Amber Temple
- human wizard that's playing up the alchemy side of things
- elf wizard bladesinger
- dragonborn cleric of Kelemvor, didn't make her charisma saves in AT
- kenku half rogue half warlock of Raven Queen, picked up about a quarter of the powers in AT
And NPC managerie:
- Ismark, using gladiator stats, +2 greatsword from Argynvostholt, and now +2 plate too
- A shield guardian
-
von Richten's
tiger, minus the armor
- 2 hellhounds from AT (down to 1 after that combat with Strahd)
- until recently, Kasimir, who decided he didn't come here to fight Strahd when that combat started, cast invisibility on himself, and disappeared. The party later found him in front of crypt 21, which was empty...
So yeah, a lot going on in combat.
The party is all damaged (all but the cleric who is at full hp), is missing most of their spell slots, they have used up all their HD during that shirt 6 rest earlier, and Ismark has strength drained by 4, and several of them have had max HP reduced.
Brainstorming a 5th ed character and I have questions. The Paladin/Warlock is a popular combo, how many levels of Paladin are recommended before the fall from grace? And as for the Warlock side of things, is it recommended to go Blade Pact, Hexblade Patron, both, or neither?
It depends. “Optimal” level 20 would be 11/9 or 9/11.
11/9 paladin gives you bonus damage on your attacks with 2 lvl 5 short rest slots.
11/9 warlock gives you 3 lvl 5 short rest slots.
In general the combo needs at least level 2 of paladin for the spell slot dump ability. Level 6 or 7 paladin is also very good due to strong abilites there. And level 4/8/12 paladin optimizes feats.
Also worth noting that certain invocations stack well.
Every level of paladin also gives you more long rest spell slots and spell selection. Plus more HP/level
Hexblade is a good option but you need strength for heavy armor so youre still pretty dependent on 3 stats
Pactblade/archfey + ancients is a good combo (green knight type). As would vengeance/fiend.
Brainstorming a 5th ed character and I have questions. The Paladin/Warlock is a popular combo, how many levels of Paladin are recommended before the fall from grace? And as for the Warlock side of things, is it recommended to go Blade Pact, Hexblade Patron, both, or neither?
I'm totally planning on running Hexblade or a Vengance Paladin/Hexblade when the CoS campaign finally starts up. ... with the Hexblade patron is refluffed to be more of an Angel Lord type who gifts his servant with Hexblade powers. The character concept is a wee slip of a young girl (Assimar or Variant Human) chosen by her patron to wield a summoned Glaive and rain down smites and furious vengeance upon evil to fuck shit up in Ravenloft. When the time comes, I will offer myself upon the alter of "DM Beating Stick" if he will allow me to forgo the STR requirement for multiclassing. Being low strength and high in Charisma, I really need Hex Warrior ASAP!
So I've been having trouble with this build too. I've read some character optimization stuff online and blah blah blah. What bothers me is that the benefits of being both classes don't really synergize until mid levels. So starting this build at first level Paladin, and working your way up, to me, feels a bit disappointing. Also delaying the awesomesauce of both classes and the ASI. But with patience will pay off, I hope. For me, I think Paladin 6/Hexblade 14 is the ultimate goal. And progression wise it would be Paladin at 1st level, Hexblade for the next 3 to get invocations and blade pact, then another 5 straight levels in Paladin to get your smites, and extra attack and aura of protection. From there, straight on with Hexblade.
My other problem with the build is that while I want Paladin for the heavy armor protection, the character concept of a wee slip of a person doesn't really mesh with that rules-wise. I might have to forgo my high Cha High Dex Low STR concept... because if I stick to it, why bother with Paladin at all then?
Brainstorming a 5th ed character and I have questions. The Paladin/Warlock is a popular combo, how many levels of Paladin are recommended before the fall from grace? And as for the Warlock side of things, is it recommended to go Blade Pact, Hexblade Patron, both, or neither?
I'm totally planning on running Hexblade or a Vengance Paladin/Hexblade when the CoS campaign finally starts up. ... with the Hexblade patron is refluffed to be more of an Angel Lord type who gifts his servant with Hexblade powers. The character concept is a wee slip of a young girl (Assimar or Variant Human) chosen by her patron to wield a summoned Glaive and rain down smites and furious vengeance upon evil to fuck shit up in Ravenloft. When the time comes, I will offer myself upon the alter of "DM Beating Stick" if he will allow me to forgo the STR requirement for multiclassing. Being low strength and high in Charisma, I really need Hex Warrior ASAP!
So I've been having trouble with this build too. I've read some character optimization stuff online and blah blah blah. What bothers me is that the benefits of being both classes don't really synergize until mid levels. So starting this build at first level Paladin, and working your way up, to me, feels a bit disappointing. Also delaying the awesomesauce of both classes and the ASI. But with patience will pay off, I hope. For me, I think Paladin 6/Hexblade 14 is the ultimate goal. And progression wise it would be Paladin at 1st level, Hexblade for the next 3 to get invocations and blade pact, then another 5 straight levels in Paladin to get your smites, and extra attack and aura of protection. From there, straight on with Hexblade.
My other problem with the build is that while I want Paladin for the heavy armor protection, the character concept of a wee slip of a person doesn't really mesh with that rules-wise. I might have to forgo my high Cha High Dex Low STR concept... because if I stick to it, why bother with Paladin at all then?
If it's for CoS, keep in mind the book recommends capping at 10th lvl. It also generously doles out NPCs to accompany the party. So in my game i capped leveling at 9.
Brainstorming a 5th ed character and I have questions. The Paladin/Warlock is a popular combo, how many levels of Paladin are recommended before the fall from grace? And as for the Warlock side of things, is it recommended to go Blade Pact, Hexblade Patron, both, or neither?
I'm totally planning on running Hexblade or a Vengance Paladin/Hexblade when the CoS campaign finally starts up. ... with the Hexblade patron is refluffed to be more of an Angel Lord type who gifts his servant with Hexblade powers. The character concept is a wee slip of a young girl (Assimar or Variant Human) chosen by her patron to wield a summoned Glaive and rain down smites and furious vengeance upon evil to fuck shit up in Ravenloft. When the time comes, I will offer myself upon the alter of "DM Beating Stick" if he will allow me to forgo the STR requirement for multiclassing. Being low strength and high in Charisma, I really need Hex Warrior ASAP!
So I've been having trouble with this build too. I've read some character optimization stuff online and blah blah blah. What bothers me is that the benefits of being both classes don't really synergize until mid levels. So starting this build at first level Paladin, and working your way up, to me, feels a bit disappointing. Also delaying the awesomesauce of both classes and the ASI. But with patience will pay off, I hope. For me, I think Paladin 6/Hexblade 14 is the ultimate goal. And progression wise it would be Paladin at 1st level, Hexblade for the next 3 to get invocations and blade pact, then another 5 straight levels in Paladin to get your smites, and extra attack and aura of protection. From there, straight on with Hexblade.
My other problem with the build is that while I want Paladin for the heavy armor protection, the character concept of a wee slip of a person doesn't really mesh with that rules-wise. I might have to forgo my high Cha High Dex Low STR concept... because if I stick to it, why bother with Paladin at all then?
If it's for CoS, keep in mind the book recommends capping at 10th lvl. It also generously doles out NPCs to accompany the party. So in my game i capped leveling at 9.
Right. So by the time the awesomeness of the build kicks in, we'd be finished. And until then it'd be a rougher ride than if I straight classed Hexblade.
Brainstorming a 5th ed character and I have questions. The Paladin/Warlock is a popular combo, how many levels of Paladin are recommended before the fall from grace? And as for the Warlock side of things, is it recommended to go Blade Pact, Hexblade Patron, both, or neither?
I think I'd recommend eight levels of Paladin and twelve levels of Warlock.
You could do a combo like any of these:
-- 'Oath of the Ancients' Paladin 8/'Pact of the Fey' Warlock 12
-- 'Oath of the Devotion' Paladin 8/'Pact of the Celestial' Warlock 12
-- 'Oathbreaker' Paladin 8/'Pact of the Undying' Warlock 12
-- 'Oath of Vengeance' Paladin 8/'Pact of the Fiend' Warlock 12
Again, keep in mind you need Str 13 in addition to Cha 13 to multiclass Warlock and Paladin.
Been a while since I read the multiclass rules, but I thought you only needed the stat for the class you were multi classing into, not the one you were starting from. So, going Paladin to Warlock you'd need the CHA, but going Warlock to Paladin you'd need the STR.
Even with that in mind, those stats should be pretty easy to do though, even with the standard array you get three 13+ scores, and could get 4 if one of the attributes has a racial bonus, or if you use a feat level to bump up a lower stat instead of focusing on CHA or STR. You'd need to plan to multiclass from the beginning though, rather than it being something that came up through play.
Edit: You might need both if you're just dipping into a second class then multiclassing back to your original though? I'll have to read up on that after work.
Again, keep in mind you need Str 13 in addition to Cha 13 to multiclass Warlock and Paladin.
Been a while since I read the multiclass rules, but I thought you only needed the stat for the class you were multi classing into, not the one you were starting from. So, going Paladin to Warlock you'd need the CHA, but going Warlock to Paladin you'd need the STR.
Even with that in mind, those stats should be pretty easy to do though, even with the standard array you get three 13+ scores, and could get 4 if one of the attributes has a racial bonus, or if you use a feat level to bump up a lower stat instead of focusing on CHA or STR. You'd need to plan to multiclass from the beginning though, rather than it being something that came up through play.
Edit: You might need both if you're just dipping into a second class then multiclassing back to your original though? I'll have to read up on that after work.
"To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table. For example, a barbarian who decides to multiclass into the druid class must have both Strength and Wisdom scores of 13 or higher." PHB p. 163
While we're on the subject, the multiclass proficiencies p. 164 also breaks down why you always start a Paladin/Warlock MC with a level of Paladin first. You don't get heavy armor proficiency if you started as a Warlock and multiclass into Paladin.
Same reason it's recommended that a sorlock goes sorcerer first for the Con save proficiency.
On the greater multiclass discussion I've come to the line of reasoning that if you can't get what you want out of it without just 2 (maaaaybe 3) levels it's not generally worth it. The number of games that go beyond ~10 is tiny compared to the ones that finish there. If the build isn't really coming together till lvl 8 that's the majority of the time your playing that character still in the building phase. The most common dips for sorcerer and paladin is 2 levels of warlock for the short rest spell slots. Sometimes you go to 3 for third level slots. Going further just delays things like spell progression, extra attack, improved smite, ect.
This all goes out the window of course if you know the campaign is gonna run to high levels or it's a one shot.
Oneshots are your go to for experimenting with multiclassing
I got one coming up at level 15 where we get one legendary, one very rare, and 6 rares or uncommons and I can finally do the angry 2 foot character ive always wanted to, some kind of planar romp through sigil and then Acheron
bonus action grapple, 17 athletics, shadowblade, dm confirmed i just grab onto things and am carried along if they're too big to grapple, this will be fun
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I'm playing a hexblade Paladin right now and it's been pretty fun. Level 1 was Paladin, level 2 was hexblade, levels 3-6 have been paladin (get to 2nd level spells and 2 attacks and ASI). Level 7 is going to be hexplade to pick up my 2nd spell slot and evocations. Not sure if I want to go a third level or not to pick up pact of the blade or not. Not sure yet.
I'm playing a hexblade Paladin right now and it's been pretty fun. Level 1 was Paladin, level 2 was hexblade, levels 3-6 have been paladin (get to 2nd level spells and 2 attacks and ASI). Level 7 is going to be hexplade to pick up my 2nd spell slot and evocations. Not sure if I want to go a third level or not to pick up pact of the blade or not. Not sure yet.
Why would you not want Pact of the Blade? I would think that if you wanted to stop progressing as a hexblade, you'd do it after at least 3 to pick up the Blade Pact.
I'm playing a hexblade Paladin right now and it's been pretty fun. Level 1 was Paladin, level 2 was hexblade, levels 3-6 have been paladin (get to 2nd level spells and 2 attacks and ASI). Level 7 is going to be hexplade to pick up my 2nd spell slot and evocations. Not sure if I want to go a third level or not to pick up pact of the blade or not. Not sure yet.
Why would you not want Pact of the Blade? I would think that if you wanted to stop progressing as a hexblade, you'd do it after at least 3 to pick up the Blade Pact.
We're only playing to level 9-10, so I'm potentially trading off my 7th level aura from Paladin for being able to create a magical weapon, and I already have a magical weapon, so all I really gain is the ability to make it disappear and reappear, which is cool, but I think my aura is a better choice. If I was going mid teens I would totally pick up 3 levels in warlock for the pact.
I'm playing a hexblade Paladin right now and it's been pretty fun. Level 1 was Paladin, level 2 was hexblade, levels 3-6 have been paladin (get to 2nd level spells and 2 attacks and ASI). Level 7 is going to be hexplade to pick up my 2nd spell slot and evocations. Not sure if I want to go a third level or not to pick up pact of the blade or not. Not sure yet.
Why would you not want Pact of the Blade? I would think that if you wanted to stop progressing as a hexblade, you'd do it after at least 3 to pick up the Blade Pact.
We're only playing to level 9-10, so I'm potentially trading off my 7th level aura from Paladin for being able to create a magical weapon, and I already have a magical weapon, so all I really gain is the ability to make it disappear and reappear, which is cool, but I think my aura is a better choice. If I was going mid teens I would totally pick up 3 levels in warlock for the pact.
Which type of pally are you?
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Homebrew Oath of the Common Man. The Aura in question is the Aura of Solidarity
AURA OF SOLIDARITY
Beginning at 7th level, whenever you or a
friendly creature within 10 feet of you takes
damage, you may choose to instead divide
that damage evenly between all friendly
targets within this aura, rounding up fractions
to the nearest whole hit point. As an example:
If there are 3 friendly creatures in this aura
(yourself included) and one takes 20 hitpoints
of damage, you may choose to have all three
friendly creatures take 7 hitpoints of damage
instead.
Oh it's definitely fiend pact. I'd be going full-on fallen Paladin. Not evil, per se, but they were put in a situation that caused them to fall from grace. Maybe sold their soul to save a loved one or something. They can't be a paladin anymore, but they're not evil.
Story-wise it would be straight up Paladin then Warlock, no going back and forth.
Oh it's definitely fiend pact. I'd be going full-on fallen Paladin. Not evil, per se, but they were put in a situation that caused them to fall from grace. Maybe sold their soul to save a loved one or something. They can't be a paladin anymore, but they're not evil.
Story-wise it would be straight up Paladin then Warlock, no going back and forth.
@Tox, do you know how your DM will handle your fall affecting your Paladin Oath abilities?
Will you keep them or immediately shift over to the Oathbreaker subclass?
Specifically about handling the situation one floor down from the north tower peak?
the heart room
Any here who DMd or played Curse of Strahd through to the end?
I read your post but didn't see a clear question to try to answer. Isn't a wipe an acceptable ending for a horror campaign?
I suppose, though I'd have preferred for a while to over at level 3 or earlier, not 9.
At this point, Strahd has no real inventive to capture then as prisoners ether, though he might make overtures to 2 of them on account of the alignment and backstory.
I wanna see a 7th level oath breaker, and 12th level hexblade with a 20 charisma and attacks that add charisma to damage 3 times and can be made into smites
Arms of Hadar is a little lackluster but that's mostly on forced movement not triggering other effects. No push/pull through Wall of Thorns, Blade Barrier, ect. Also, it only works once a turn not on each blast so the practical use is really only when something stops 10 feet from you or is 10 feet from falling off something like a cliff or balcony.
I remember when the warlock in my game picked up and used the other gaze one at around 10th level, the x-ray vision one, and the bard said "wait, how long have you had the ability to see through solid objects?" and she replied "oh, I've always had this, I just didn't want any of you to know that I can see through your clothes because I felt it would be awkward" and that was the canon explanation, retroactively applied, as to how she has had an uncanny number of natural 20 investigation checks to spot traps throughout the leveling process - she's just always had the ability to see through things
edit: "Why didn't you tell us about the tomb defender behind the wall waiting to throw us into a trap?!" "Artus Cimber was crawling in front of me in the shaft and I was... distracted" was the better exchange to come out of that
Posts
I'm not super up on the intricacies of min/max multiclassing, but I know for sure that what a Paladin wants out of Warlock is Hexblade so they can say fuck Strength and go super Charisma. (Keep in mind you still need 13 Strength to be able to multiclass RAW)
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
We are finally in "endgame" where the characters are running around the castle and are determined to stick around until they kill Strahd, even as they have run super low on resources they're like "let's go in deeper" and ignoring my "are you sure"s, to the point i expect soon a TPW because they are running on fumes at this point. Which would be not great, having them reroll now.
But I'm not going to stop then either. And the NPCs have motivations and lives of their own, regardless of what the PCs are doing.
When we first started, they got their card reading, and 1 item
I also rolled the simpleton to be their companion (which i retconned into referring to Ismark after pool on Krezk event), and for Strahd i got the DM choice card which i decided at the time a year ago would be
A couple of sessions ago they snuck in to the crypt
Anyway, they make it in there, and decide to explore counterclockwise along the wall, looking for the crypt that was foretold in the cards. Yeah, some of you that have ran this adventure can probably tell where this is going. Yup, they made almost a beeline for Strahd, who was hanging out with Esmeralda and two Blood Knight vampires at the place I determined a year ago. Combat ensued, and they managed to kill all but Strahd, who ran away laughing at the good time he was having. They took this as unambiguous victory despite me keeping them in initiative order and triggering Strahd's lair actions every round as they desecrated
They heard footsteps coming down one corridor and used stoneshape to block it. Did they leave now? No, they kept checking out crypts, and find the special item. At some point i dropped them out of initiative (Strahd left to deal with the distraction the players had arranged for earlier, an elf revolt, and players had completely forgotten they did that one session prior). They fought Escher as a Bloodmist vampire (they had killed him on the roof some months ago) and a couple of feral vampires.
Then more undead of various types started showing up from an opening too large to stone shape. They hid in one of the crypts (instead of leaving) and used rope trick to get a short rest. When they came out an hour later (most of them carrying torches, one of them carrying something much brighter), they were attacked by the patrols of undead Strahd had looking for them. In the meantime, i had Strahd hanging up dead elf corpses to feed blood to
They killed those patrols and went through the corridor that they had blocked off earlier with stoneshape, which at some point in the last hour the undead had broken open. They made it to the brasier room. Some of you can guess what happened next. Yup, they got the other item (that nobody can use).
For next week, I'm trying to decide if, when they take the stairs down, if Strahd will be there still, it off he will have left already and makes his way back when they do what they do in that area.
Sorry if this all reads vague, i don't want to spoil it for anyone playing the module, and anyone DMing it will know exactly what happening.
Oh yeah the party is all lvl 9 and are:
- human Barbarian that hears voices of ancestors, party tank. 25 str after Amber Temple
- human wizard that's playing up the alchemy side of things
- elf wizard bladesinger
- dragonborn cleric of Kelemvor, didn't make her charisma saves in AT
- kenku half rogue half warlock of Raven Queen, picked up about a quarter of the powers in AT
And NPC managerie:
- Ismark, using gladiator stats, +2 greatsword from Argynvostholt, and now +2 plate too
- A shield guardian
-
- 2 hellhounds from AT (down to 1 after that combat with Strahd)
- until recently, Kasimir, who decided he didn't come here to fight Strahd when that combat started, cast invisibility on himself, and disappeared. The party later found him in front of crypt 21, which was empty...
So yeah, a lot going on in combat.
The party is all damaged (all but the cleric who is at full hp), is missing most of their spell slots, they have used up all their HD during that shirt 6 rest earlier, and Ismark has strength drained by 4, and several of them have had max HP reduced.
It depends. “Optimal” level 20 would be 11/9 or 9/11.
11/9 paladin gives you bonus damage on your attacks with 2 lvl 5 short rest slots.
11/9 warlock gives you 3 lvl 5 short rest slots.
In general the combo needs at least level 2 of paladin for the spell slot dump ability. Level 6 or 7 paladin is also very good due to strong abilites there. And level 4/8/12 paladin optimizes feats.
Also worth noting that certain invocations stack well.
Every level of paladin also gives you more long rest spell slots and spell selection. Plus more HP/level
Hexblade is a good option but you need strength for heavy armor so youre still pretty dependent on 3 stats
Pactblade/archfey + ancients is a good combo (green knight type). As would vengeance/fiend.
Both of which have good rp construction too
I'm totally planning on running Hexblade or a Vengance Paladin/Hexblade when the CoS campaign finally starts up. ... with the Hexblade patron is refluffed to be more of an Angel Lord type who gifts his servant with Hexblade powers. The character concept is a wee slip of a young girl (Assimar or Variant Human) chosen by her patron to wield a summoned Glaive and rain down smites and furious vengeance upon evil to fuck shit up in Ravenloft. When the time comes, I will offer myself upon the alter of "DM Beating Stick" if he will allow me to forgo the STR requirement for multiclassing. Being low strength and high in Charisma, I really need Hex Warrior ASAP!
So I've been having trouble with this build too. I've read some character optimization stuff online and blah blah blah. What bothers me is that the benefits of being both classes don't really synergize until mid levels. So starting this build at first level Paladin, and working your way up, to me, feels a bit disappointing. Also delaying the awesomesauce of both classes and the ASI. But with patience will pay off, I hope. For me, I think Paladin 6/Hexblade 14 is the ultimate goal. And progression wise it would be Paladin at 1st level, Hexblade for the next 3 to get invocations and blade pact, then another 5 straight levels in Paladin to get your smites, and extra attack and aura of protection. From there, straight on with Hexblade.
My other problem with the build is that while I want Paladin for the heavy armor protection, the character concept of a wee slip of a person doesn't really mesh with that rules-wise. I might have to forgo my high Cha High Dex Low STR concept... because if I stick to it, why bother with Paladin at all then?
If it's for CoS, keep in mind the book recommends capping at 10th lvl. It also generously doles out NPCs to accompany the party. So in my game i capped leveling at 9.
Right. So by the time the awesomeness of the build kicks in, we'd be finished. And until then it'd be a rougher ride than if I straight classed Hexblade.
Alas.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
I think I'd recommend eight levels of Paladin and twelve levels of Warlock.
You could do a combo like any of these:
-- 'Oath of the Ancients' Paladin 8/'Pact of the Fey' Warlock 12
-- 'Oath of the Devotion' Paladin 8/'Pact of the Celestial' Warlock 12
-- 'Oathbreaker' Paladin 8/'Pact of the Undying' Warlock 12
-- 'Oath of Vengeance' Paladin 8/'Pact of the Fiend' Warlock 12
Even with that in mind, those stats should be pretty easy to do though, even with the standard array you get three 13+ scores, and could get 4 if one of the attributes has a racial bonus, or if you use a feat level to bump up a lower stat instead of focusing on CHA or STR. You'd need to plan to multiclass from the beginning though, rather than it being something that came up through play.
Edit: You might need both if you're just dipping into a second class then multiclassing back to your original though? I'll have to read up on that after work.
"To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new one, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table. For example, a barbarian who decides to multiclass into the druid class must have both Strength and Wisdom scores of 13 or higher." PHB p. 163
While we're on the subject, the multiclass proficiencies p. 164 also breaks down why you always start a Paladin/Warlock MC with a level of Paladin first. You don't get heavy armor proficiency if you started as a Warlock and multiclass into Paladin.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Also, Keith Baker confirmed he will have involvement in the Eberron book via his twitter.
On the greater multiclass discussion I've come to the line of reasoning that if you can't get what you want out of it without just 2 (maaaaybe 3) levels it's not generally worth it. The number of games that go beyond ~10 is tiny compared to the ones that finish there. If the build isn't really coming together till lvl 8 that's the majority of the time your playing that character still in the building phase. The most common dips for sorcerer and paladin is 2 levels of warlock for the short rest spell slots. Sometimes you go to 3 for third level slots. Going further just delays things like spell progression, extra attack, improved smite, ect.
This all goes out the window of course if you know the campaign is gonna run to high levels or it's a one shot.
I got one coming up at level 15 where we get one legendary, one very rare, and 6 rares or uncommons and I can finally do the angry 2 foot character ive always wanted to, some kind of planar romp through sigil and then Acheron
bonus action grapple, 17 athletics, shadowblade, dm confirmed i just grab onto things and am carried along if they're too big to grapple, this will be fun
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Why would you not want Pact of the Blade? I would think that if you wanted to stop progressing as a hexblade, you'd do it after at least 3 to pick up the Blade Pact.
And it's not from Beamdog.
I have so many questions.
We're only playing to level 9-10, so I'm potentially trading off my 7th level aura from Paladin for being able to create a magical weapon, and I already have a magical weapon, so all I really gain is the ability to make it disappear and reappear, which is cool, but I think my aura is a better choice. If I was going mid teens I would totally pick up 3 levels in warlock for the pact.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Which type of pally are you?
AURA OF SOLIDARITY
Beginning at 7th level, whenever you or a
friendly creature within 10 feet of you takes
damage, you may choose to instead divide
that damage evenly between all friendly
targets within this aura, rounding up fractions
to the nearest whole hit point. As an example:
If there are 3 friendly creatures in this aura
(yourself included) and one takes 20 hitpoints
of damage, you may choose to have all three
friendly creatures take 7 hitpoints of damage
instead.
Link to the whole damn thing...
Oath of the Common Man
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
Story-wise it would be straight up Paladin then Warlock, no going back and forth.
Specifically about handling the situation one floor down from the north tower peak?
Any here who DMd or played Curse of Strahd through to the end?
I read your post but didn't see a clear question to try to answer. Isn't a wipe an acceptable ending for a horror campaign?
@Tox, do you know how your DM will handle your fall affecting your Paladin Oath abilities?
Will you keep them or immediately shift over to the Oathbreaker subclass?
I suppose, though I'd have preferred for a while to over at level 3 or earlier, not 9.
At this point, Strahd has no real inventive to capture then as prisoners ether, though he might make overtures to 2 of them on account of the alignment and backstory.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Something like This
If you crit, banishing smite is up, and you use both smites, the average damage is ~270
Just a regular GWM swing is 2d6+28 (!)
I like the idea of hitting a foe with an eldritch blast and then dragging them towards you so you can pummel them.
A very "Get Over Here!" a la Mortal Combat's Scorpion kinda move.
Hadar's a pretty busy dude, he needs to know what you want from him.
Arms is the spell, Grasp is the invocation.
Lets be honest, Hit Hard Man doesn't need all his invocations, or even any skill proficiencies
The real beauty of that is when you sit way back, darkness yourself, and have elven accuracy so you just get a triple shot at a crit every bolt
I remember when the warlock in my game picked up and used the other gaze one at around 10th level, the x-ray vision one, and the bard said "wait, how long have you had the ability to see through solid objects?" and she replied "oh, I've always had this, I just didn't want any of you to know that I can see through your clothes because I felt it would be awkward" and that was the canon explanation, retroactively applied, as to how she has had an uncanny number of natural 20 investigation checks to spot traps throughout the leveling process - she's just always had the ability to see through things
edit: "Why didn't you tell us about the tomb defender behind the wall waiting to throw us into a trap?!" "Artus Cimber was crawling in front of me in the shaft and I was... distracted" was the better exchange to come out of that
They can get at will Arcane Eye too at later levels. Just nuts.