I may be missing context here, but it sounds like he's playing his character straight, not that he's dissatisfied about anything. If he wants to kill himself as a warlock, he can almost certainly zap himself even after the fall. It's also the DM's prerogative to play a warlock's patron - the patron could kill him itself, or "reward" his devotion with a spooky cure or new form for him. I would reach out to him before the next session and clarify if he wanted to die or if he would be okay with the patron reaching out and doing something.
Had something come up in a session, and while I wouldn't say it's an issue, per se, it's definitely something that needs resolving before we can continue.
So I'm running Curse of Strahd and one of the PCs is a Warlock in service to a Great Old One, and the player has been leaning harder into PC's devotion to their Old God as we progress through the campaign as things get darker and more desperate. In practice the player is piloting the PC increasingly madder, in the the mad hatter sense, inoculating the PC's psyche from Barovia with a different strain of insanity. The PC's devotion to their god is fanatical, and the player's stance is "Bows to no man, dies a man, as my god intends." For example,
the first time the players met Strahd at the beginning of the campaign, all the other PCs bent the knee and begged for mercy when it became clear they were hopelessly outmatched, while this player refused and Strahd ending up killing them (plot stuff ensued and the PC lived on with some... future plot implications).
Fast forward to recently and the PCs are in
(Strahd spoilers):
The werewolf cave, and have just killed almost all the werewolves. Mind you, one of the PCs is a full blown werewolf at this point, and for plot reasons, another PC's child, who the PC thought was dead, ended up being kidnapped by this werewolf clan and turned into werewolf. This was legit a nice twist for the players and they were impressed the backstory got tied into the narrative.
Unfortunately, the last action the PC's child did before surrendering and reuniting with their parent was bite the crazy PC and infect him. When the crazy PC got a chance to speak, he went "I don't want to be a werewolf like <Party Member>. I'm going to die a man, like my god intends. My PC jumps off the cliff face to their death."
:bigfrown:
So I roll fall damage for them, and it's not enough to kill the PC. It's more than half their max HP though, so I roll on the long term injury table, and the PC breaks both legs.
Then it's time to call a wrap, so we do.
I don't know what do. Should this PC survive, in spite of the player? I feel that's almost punishing the other players. Should I let the player reroll, or is that rewarding bad behavior? Should I force the player to reroll, so he stops acting insane? Maybe this player is dissatisfied about something, and we should just talk?
Looking for hot takes, cold takes, and other takes of all temperatures.
Yo so long as the player is cool with how their character went out, give that player their new character.
I would probably ask them if they would be fine with their character coming back as some kind of eldritch werebeast mutation aberration monster the party needs to fight off, but I'm just going off generalized old one vibes. Their old one seems like it might not be into that kinda stuff.
Had something come up in a session, and while I wouldn't say it's an issue, per se, it's definitely something that needs resolving before we can continue.
So I'm running Curse of Strahd and one of the PCs is a Warlock in service to a Great Old One, and the player has been leaning harder into PC's devotion to their Old God as we progress through the campaign as things get darker and more desperate. In practice the player is piloting the PC increasingly madder, in the the mad hatter sense, inoculating the PC's psyche from Barovia with a different strain of insanity. The PC's devotion to their god is fanatical, and the player's stance is "Bows to no man, dies a man, as my god intends." For example,
the first time the players met Strahd at the beginning of the campaign, all the other PCs bent the knee and begged for mercy when it became clear they were hopelessly outmatched, while this player refused and Strahd ending up killing them (plot stuff ensued and the PC lived on with some... future plot implications).
Fast forward to recently and the PCs are in
(Strahd spoilers):
The werewolf cave, and have just killed almost all the werewolves. Mind you, one of the PCs is a full blown werewolf at this point, and for plot reasons, another PC's child, who the PC thought was dead, ended up being kidnapped by this werewolf clan and turned into werewolf. This was legit a nice twist for the players and they were impressed the backstory got tied into the narrative.
Unfortunately, the last action the PC's child did before surrendering and reuniting with their parent was bite the crazy PC and infect him. When the crazy PC got a chance to speak, he went "I don't want to be a werewolf like <Party Member>. I'm going to die a man, like my god intends. My PC jumps off the cliff face to their death."
:bigfrown:
So I roll fall damage for them, and it's not enough to kill the PC. It's more than half their max HP though, so I roll on the long term injury table, and the PC breaks both legs.
Then it's time to call a wrap, so we do.
I don't know what do. Should this PC survive, in spite of the player? I feel that's almost punishing the other players. Should I let the player reroll, or is that rewarding bad behavior? Should I force the player to reroll, so he stops acting insane? Maybe this player is dissatisfied about something, and we should just talk?
Looking for hot takes, cold takes, and other takes of all temperatures.
Werewolves are immune to non-magical bludgeoning damage. So the mechanics are there for him to survive. The standard rule is also that if a character becomes a werewolf or vampire they also get NPCed.
I'm thinking of having my character retire for sake of both party balance and my sanity.
Sorry man. Just make an Aarakocra replacement and make everyone jealous with your flight instead.
This touches on a read that I'm not sure is right but is poking around the edges of my thoughts. So there is a kind of RPG player who will always be all grass is greener for some other PC. They'll think the other player is clearly doing better and so they should just copy what that PC is doing. While I think this is a shitty thing to do it seems like a natural occurrence. The big takeaway I have is that you changing isn't going to solve the problem. Not if you go off and do cool things and play well as some other class. That is just going to change which grass they think is greenest. Their could be other stuff going on. Maybe the campaign really does just favor spell casters because of encounter composition or whatever. But...
Sorcerers get like 4 spells and no ritual casting, they're good at blowing everything up (not as good as evocation wizards) and little else, wizards are batman
In fifth edition, I honestly think rogues are back to being Batman.
For fifth edition we should pick a new pop culture character to compare to wizards.
Had something come up in a session, and while I wouldn't say it's an issue, per se, it's definitely something that needs resolving before we can continue.
So I'm running Curse of Strahd and one of the PCs is a Warlock in service to a Great Old One, and the player has been leaning harder into PC's devotion to their Old God as we progress through the campaign as things get darker and more desperate. In practice the player is piloting the PC increasingly madder, in the the mad hatter sense, inoculating the PC's psyche from Barovia with a different strain of insanity. The PC's devotion to their god is fanatical, and the player's stance is "Bows to no man, dies a man, as my god intends." For example,
the first time the players met Strahd at the beginning of the campaign, all the other PCs bent the knee and begged for mercy when it became clear they were hopelessly outmatched, while this player refused and Strahd ending up killing them (plot stuff ensued and the PC lived on with some... future plot implications).
Fast forward to recently and the PCs are in
(Strahd spoilers):
The werewolf cave, and have just killed almost all the werewolves. Mind you, one of the PCs is a full blown werewolf at this point, and for plot reasons, another PC's child, who the PC thought was dead, ended up being kidnapped by this werewolf clan and turned into werewolf. This was legit a nice twist for the players and they were impressed the backstory got tied into the narrative.
Unfortunately, the last action the PC's child did before surrendering and reuniting with their parent was bite the crazy PC and infect him. When the crazy PC got a chance to speak, he went "I don't want to be a werewolf like <Party Member>. I'm going to die a man, like my god intends. My PC jumps off the cliff face to their death."
:bigfrown:
So I roll fall damage for them, and it's not enough to kill the PC. It's more than half their max HP though, so I roll on the long term injury table, and the PC breaks both legs.
Then it's time to call a wrap, so we do.
I don't know what do. Should this PC survive, in spite of the player? I feel that's almost punishing the other players. Should I let the player reroll, or is that rewarding bad behavior? Should I force the player to reroll, so he stops acting insane? Maybe this player is dissatisfied about something, and we should just talk?
Looking for hot takes, cold takes, and other takes of all temperatures.
IMO if a player wants their character to die, you as the DM should verify with the player that yes, they intend their character to die, and then it should just automatically happen. In this case, that would have meant not rolling for the fall damage.
And then yes in this case you should absolutely have the character come back as some sort of weird undead eldritch were-abomination, because I mean come on
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
I'm thinking of having my character retire for sake of both party balance and my sanity.
Sorry man. Just make an Aarakocra replacement and make everyone jealous with your flight instead.
This touches on a read that I'm not sure is right but is poking around the edges of my thoughts. So there is a kind of RPG player who will always be all grass is greener for some other PC. They'll think the other player is clearly doing better and so they should just copy what that PC is doing. While I think this is a shitty thing to do it seems like a natural occurrence. The big takeaway I have is that you changing isn't going to solve the problem. Not if you go off and do cool things and play well as some other class. That is just going to change which grass they think is greenest. Their could be other stuff going on. Maybe the campaign really does just favor spell casters because of encounter composition or whatever. But...
To be honest I'm thinking of just leaving because its tied into irl conflicts and feelings. Like this guy is my best friend but I don't think I'm his. I suck at confrontations and knowing when to stand my ground. Am I blowing this out of proportions or is it a big deal? Do I bring up my own complaints? Since he told me others feel the same way I now feel like I'm ruining the game for everyone. It's so much stress for something that should be fun.
A high Charisma paladin is amazing. That Saving Throw Aura is staggeringly powerful.
Fey Paladin best paladin.
OK so everyone in 10 feet gets +3 to all their saves... and youre resistant to spell damage.... and ive got 5xlevel extra healing/day. So just like... drop that fireball right on me
I'm thinking of having my character retire for sake of both party balance and my sanity.
Sorry man. Just make an Aarakocra replacement and make everyone jealous with your flight instead.
This touches on a read that I'm not sure is right but is poking around the edges of my thoughts. So there is a kind of RPG player who will always be all grass is greener for some other PC. They'll think the other player is clearly doing better and so they should just copy what that PC is doing. While I think this is a shitty thing to do it seems like a natural occurrence. The big takeaway I have is that you changing isn't going to solve the problem. Not if you go off and do cool things and play well as some other class. That is just going to change which grass they think is greenest. Their could be other stuff going on. Maybe the campaign really does just favor spell casters because of encounter composition or whatever. But...
To be honest I'm thinking of just leaving because its tied into irl conflicts and feelings. Like this guy is my best friend but I don't think I'm his. I suck at confrontations and knowing when to stand my ground. Am I blowing this out of proportions or is it a big deal? Do I bring up my own complaints? Since he told me others feel the same way I now feel like I'm ruining the game for everyone. It's so much stress for something that should be fun.
this has drifted out of "our party comp isn't working" territory into "there are real problems between the real humans at the table".
you should absolutely have a real talk with your friend. share these feelings and reach an understanding. it's not about "standing your ground" or "raising grievances" at this point--you guys need to square this up in a private conversation. do not treat this like a battle to be won or lost.
if it seems there are issues between you and the other players, do the same thing. and if at the end of the day you guys aren't friends, then you should bail. but if you just run away from this you may never know what the actual root cause was, and possibly the growth (for all parties involved) that this entails.
COMMUNICATE
Super Namicchi on
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Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
Given your previous posts about the other people at this table I think it makes a lot of sense to just bail
A high Charisma paladin is amazing. That Saving Throw Aura is staggeringly powerful.
Fey Paladin best paladin.
OK so everyone in 10 feet gets +3 to all their saves... and youre resistant to spell damage.... and ive got 5xlevel extra healing/day. So just like... drop that fireball right on me
The Devotion Paladin Channel Divinity is pretty dang good too, though. +Cha to your attack rolls? Heck yeah! You can use the GWM power attack and have minimal penalty!
And being immune to charm has come up more often than I thought it would.
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silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
Can anyone recommend a podcast to be a better DM?
I can't watch anything on my commute but listening is okay.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I can't watch anything on my commute but listening is okay.
I like listening to Not Another D&D Podcast. It's a let's play podcast but the DM running it is real good with rolling with the incredibly dumb stuff that the players come up with, and also incorporating their character stories into future episodes.
Warning this isnt a super serious game, though there are high stakes and some emotional moments. The players just like to goof a bit and have a habit of not realizing how serious an encounter is.
I've been spending wayyyy too much time doing research on the archdevils of the Nine Hells, but I figured I'd share one fun idea I've had:
- Geryon used to be ruler of Stygia, but now Levistus is in his place as ruler.
- One of Geryon's loyal servants, Agares, was said in the 3E era to have supposedly betrayed his master to serve Levistus, but is secretly colluding with the god Set.
- Another loyal servant, Amon, colludes with Glasya, and together they both plan to kill Levistus, Belial, Baalzebul, and Mammon (preferably in that order).
- Glasya in 4E is said to be collaborating with Fierna against Levistus while also turning her against her father Belial. In 5E she is Mephistopheles' goddaughter.
- In 4E Geryon is said to be planning an alliance with either Tiamat or a god named Zehir. The D&D development team later admitted that Zehir was essentially a renamed Set.
- In 2E the headquarters of a caste of devilkind called the assassin devils was in Stygia. In 4E the assassin devils were said to have had a queen named Svidanfi. Also in 4E, Zehir had a daughter by an unknown devil (possibly Svidanfi) that for a time was a powerful assassin before eventually being destroyed by her father's most potent god-killing venom for turning into a goddess of redemption.
- In 5E Geryon has returned to Stygia, but still is not ruler.
My idea is that Geryon, Agares, Amon, and Svidanfi collaborate to summon an aspect of Zehir, receive his venom, kill Levistus and give Stygia back over to Geryon. Geryon and Amon collaborate with Glasya, Mephistopheles, and Fierna to kill Belial, followed by Baalzebul and Mammon.
The reason I'm doing all this is because one PC wants to become an archdevil and another has been smitten by Glasya, so they may be convinced to join in on a war that will majorly shake-up the Hells' power structure.
The reason I'm doing all this is because one PC wants to become an archdevil and another has been smitten by Glasya, so they may be convinced to join in on a war that will majorly shake-up the Hells' power structure.
I'm thinking of next session starting with a garden party at Glasya's palace that quickly is revealed to have been a set-up for the PCs to kill a bunch of her political rivals
Would it be wierd in SKT if Zephros showed up at the end of chapter 2 instead of chapter 1?
His only job in the module is to ferry the party somewhere and give details about he Ordening and the plot, correct?
Why can't he ferry the party from Triboar to Everlund, I stead of Nightstone to Triboar?
He never even showed up in my SKT campaign. I decided that his castle was too goofy and my party wouldn't respond well to the 'fated heroes' angle he wants to throw around, so I cut him! Instead after chapter 2 right at the start of chapter 3 they had a long discussion with a Harper Wizard (with illusory powerpoints!) about the Ordning.
Maybe the Z man will appear in the campaign sometime if I have need of him.
Would it be wierd in SKT if Zephros showed up at the end of chapter 2 instead of chapter 1?
His only job in the module is to ferry the party somewhere and give details about he Ordening and the plot, correct?
Why can't he ferry the party from Triboar to Everlund, I stead of Nightstone to Triboar?
He never even showed up in my SKT campaign. I decided that his castle was too goofy and my party wouldn't respond well to the 'fated heroes' angle he wants to throw around, so I cut him! Instead after chapter 2 right at the start of chapter 3 they had a long discussion with a Harper Wizard (with illusory powerpoints!) about the Ordning.
Maybe the Z man will appear in the campaign sometime if I have need of him.
Right. Ok. My point though is that the PCs need some inkling of the greater plot at hand, rather than just a random giant attack, which is all you get starting at Chapter 2. The module uses a goofy cloud giant in Chapter 1, where you used a Harper wizard.
The story needs something to tell the players that there is a story here, and not just an encounter with giants.
Planning a D&D 5e session in a couple weeks. Looking to do something self contained instead of continuing a larger campaign. Are there any resources online that folks like for this? I remember way back, it seemed Gabe and Tycho were going to release some of their scenarios. Did that ever come out?
Planning a D&D 5e session in a couple weeks. Looking to do something self contained instead of continuing a larger campaign. Are there any resources online that folks like for this? I remember way back, it seemed Gabe and Tycho were going to release some of their scenarios. Did that ever come out?
I think Mike/Gabe might have opined on some of his 4e DMing experiences in news posts and the like, but as for releases? There is only, as far as I know, this:
Yeah I saw that. Didn't seem like what they were talking about in the news posts. I guess they haven't put anything out yet. Any other sites that have self contained adventures?
That Dungeon Master Guild seems great. Looking at A Night of Masks and Monsters, anyone try that one? I wonder if I can jump the difficulty a bit, I'm not a huge fan of the lowest levels. 5-10 seems like it gives players more options.
I can't watch anything on my commute but listening is okay.
Matt Coleville’s “Running the Game” series on YouTube is, like, 98% audio. You could put that on, put your phone facedown, and not miss much of anything.
I get to play my wacked out barbarian monk fighter again tomorrow, I'm super pumped. The dm is being real ample with the itemization so my character is wearing a bandolier of potions, it's mostly standard healing potions and a couple of superior healing potions. However there's also a potion of growth and a giant strength potion that gives me a strength over 20. For if I really need to bring my A game for a couple encounters. Also my allies can grab potions off the bandolier and drink as an action on their turn. So I've got a kind of sub healing role going now (we're a little light on healing sources so the DM might be purposefully compensating).
I've been trying all week to figure out what exactly I'm going to do for tomorrow's D&D session. I've probably come up with a dozen different ideas and discarded them for various reasons.
I'm wanting to do a bit of infernal political intrigue between the archdevils (and spent a lot of time on Thursday researching them), but 1) I'm not sure how to go about giving the players the background info in a way they'll be able to quickly understand, and 2) it's kinda hard to imagine the complicated web of schemes that the archdevils would have cooked up to dick each other over.
Plus there's also still a lich running around.
And I've previously established that a NPC one of the PCs is going after is a servant of Graz'zt.
Finally came-up with an idea I really like for my next session. I've decided that to be an Archduke of the Hells Asmodeus must know your true name and inscribe it upon an obelisk within one of the towers of his palace in Nessus. Each Archduke's obelisk is within a tower all its own, and the obelisks are extremely well-guarded.
The party (which includes a daughter of Asmodeus, a paladin attracted to Princess Glasya, and a wizard who wants to take over Stygia from Archduke Levistus) is charged by Glasya with locating Levistus' obelisk and recording his true name so that he may be deposed. She intends for Geryon, the master of Glasya's consort Amon, to regain rulership of Stygia.
However, the PC who wants to rule Stygia himself has secretly been given a shard of the Heart of the Abyss, receiving it from an avatar of Graz'zt. With it he may carve his own true name into the obelisk, though there will certainly be major ramifications if he does. Plus there will likely be other agents of Glasya tailing the party in secret to attack them if they do anything Glasya wouldn't approve of.
Finally came-up with an idea I really like for my next session. I've decided that to be an Archduke of the Hells Asmodeus must know your true name and inscribe it upon an obelisk within one of the towers of his palace in Nessus. Each Archduke's obelisk is within a tower all its own, and the obelisks are extremely well-guarded.
The party (which includes a daughter of Asmodeus, a paladin attracted to Princess Glasya, and a wizard who wants to take over Stygia from Archduke Levistus) is charged by Glasya with locating Levistus' obelisk and recording his true name so that he may be deposed. She intends for Geryon, the master of Glasya's consort Amon, to regain rulership of Stygia.
However, the PC who wants to rule Stygia himself has secretly been given a shard of the Heart of the Abyss, receiving it from an avatar of Graz'zt. With it he may carve his own true name into the obelisk, though there will certainly be major ramifications if he does. Plus there will likely be other agents of Glasya tailing the party in secret to attack them if they do anything Glasya wouldn't approve of.
Not sure how you're running your lore but why does your wizard want to take orders from Asmodeus?
Not only that, but given that your wizard PC is going to take power by not honouring a deal I'm rather positive Asmodeus will just simply dust him.
Finally came-up with an idea I really like for my next session. I've decided that to be an Archduke of the Hells Asmodeus must know your true name and inscribe it upon an obelisk within one of the towers of his palace in Nessus. Each Archduke's obelisk is within a tower all its own, and the obelisks are extremely well-guarded.
The party (which includes a daughter of Asmodeus, a paladin attracted to Princess Glasya, and a wizard who wants to take over Stygia from Archduke Levistus) is charged by Glasya with locating Levistus' obelisk and recording his true name so that he may be deposed. She intends for Geryon, the master of Glasya's consort Amon, to regain rulership of Stygia.
However, the PC who wants to rule Stygia himself has secretly been given a shard of the Heart of the Abyss, receiving it from an avatar of Graz'zt. With it he may carve his own true name into the obelisk, though there will certainly be major ramifications if he does. Plus there will likely be other agents of Glasya tailing the party in secret to attack them if they do anything Glasya wouldn't approve of.
Not sure how you're running your lore but why does your wizard want to take orders from Asmodeus?
Not only that, but given that your wizard PC is going to take power by not honouring a deal I'm rather positive Asmodeus will just simply dust him.
Well, the wizard PC may decide not to use this. I could also have the contract with Glasya worded so that, going by the letter of the deal, tampering with the obelisk is not technically forbidden (devils go by the rules as written, not by their intent). The situation is basically Graz'zt tempting him with an easier path to power. The wizard's soul also belongs to another minor archdevil until he kills the avatar of Graz'zt (he may try to kill the avatar then and there, but given that he'll be encountering the avatar alone he probably won't risk it), and the avatar will instead suggest killing that archdevil to get his soul back instead.
It's also canon that there has been at least one major rebellion in Hell already, and the most Asmodeus did against the perpetrators was to exile and/or disempower them. It could be that he'd use kids gloves for this sort of thing if he thinks it could further his goals long-term. For another example, Mephistopheles once used a persona called Molikroth to lead a rebellion against himself just so he could find out who was disloyal to him. The devils, the archdevils in particular, are devious long-term schemers.
BTW, I'm conceptualizing Graz'zt as being a former archdevil, as well as the son of Asmodeus and the mysterious demon lord Pale Night. His long term goals are to develop a council of allied demon lords, conquer the Nine Hells, and use the combined forces of the Abyss and the Hells (at least those devils who bend the knee) to conquer the multiverse
I also ran a few minor infernal contracts last session. The gist was that the PCs had to make Intelligence checks, with the result determining how well they understood the contract and if there were any loopholes to exploit. Nobody sold their souls or anything, but they did, for example, sign a contract that said if they were to interfere with a duel they were watching they consented to being teleported to a detention area.
I also imagine that many loopholes are intentional, meant both to be exploited by the archdevils and to test how well others can understand and exploit them.
I also ran a few minor infernal contracts last session. The gist was that the PCs had to make Intelligence checks, with the result determining how well they understood the contract and if there were any loopholes to exploit. Nobody sold their souls or anything, but they did, for example, sign a contract that said if they were to interfere with a duel they were watching they consented to being teleported to a detention area.
I also imagine that many loopholes are intentional, meant both to be exploited by the archdevils and to test how well others can understand and exploit them.
Thing is, the only form of currency valuable to a devil *is* a soul.
If you're going by 5e fluff, there are 4 dialects of infernal, the higher ones reserved for the archdevils alone (making contracts written it in rather difficult to grasp).
I don't know what sort of campaign you're running and how high levelled these PCs are but to me it's always a disappointment when some scrubby wannabe gets one over on some millennia old entity.
If the wizard can violate his agreement with Glasya without consequences I'd be bummed out.
I also ran a few minor infernal contracts last session. The gist was that the PCs had to make Intelligence checks, with the result determining how well they understood the contract and if there were any loopholes to exploit. Nobody sold their souls or anything, but they did, for example, sign a contract that said if they were to interfere with a duel they were watching they consented to being teleported to a detention area.
I also imagine that many loopholes are intentional, meant both to be exploited by the archdevils and to test how well others can understand and exploit them.
Thing is, the only form of currency valuable to a devil *is* a soul.
If you're going by 5e fluff, there are 4 dialects of infernal, the higher ones reserved for the archdevils alone (making contracts written it in rather difficult to grasp).
I don't know what sort of campaign you're running and how high levelled these PCs are but to me it's always a disappointment when some scrubby wannabe gets one over on some millennia old entity.
If the wizard can violate his agreement with Glasya without consequences I'd be bummed out.
Well to be honest I didn't start doing a lot of research into the Hells until after that player said he wanted his PC to become an archdevil eventually. I'm trying to figure out different ways to handle this.
- The idea of having a special obelisk with a true name on it is loosely inspired by one of the possible endings of the Neverwinter Nights campaign "Hordes of the Underdark", except there all you have to do to get Mephistopheles' true name is pay a guy a bunch of gold. In that game, with the true name you can order Mephistopheles to die, become your servant, or hand rulership of his layer of the Hells over to you.
- Another idea is that the PC could literally swap places with Levistus, becoming entombed in the glacier prison. He would be the most safe from other archdevils here.
- He could also go the legitimate route, but that doesn't seem that exciting.
- He could also shift gears and try to take over an Abyssal layer instead, but that's also extremely difficult.
There is precedent for non-devils to control layers, like the Hag Countess, but things didn't really work out well for her. No matter what, there would be consequences.
Once again, don't know what sort of campaign you're running, but:
1) becoming archdevil is an adventure unto itself. Perhaps once you're done doing whatever it is you're currently doing you can put that into focus but it isn't something I'd want to sideline. I mean it sounds like your players are a bunch of murderhobos, it would give them a chance to explore the price of their fealty, for example. Perhaps the PC wanting to become the archdevil doesn't because someone else in the party outwitted him/her.
2) There's 2 ways to become a devil: be another sort of outsider and become one (ala Zariel) or be a mortal, die, and have your soul twisted until it's ready. Perhaps the PC (once again, sounds like a murderhobo, so pretty evil already) could barter to skip the torture and be able to keep his memories. The campaign could then becomes a twisted pokemon game where the party guide and nurture their little lemure all the way up to archdevil status!
3) If he's going to stay mortal and try rule the hells (again, not sure if Glasya or Asmodeus are going to rule in the PCs favour), he's going to have to find a way to become immortal. Otherwise he's a barely noticable interruption in the standard day to day runnings of the nine hells.
as someone running an arc right now saturated with political intrigue and schemes, the crux of the tension and drama is A: putting a prize that the group can’t ignore (wealth, power, prestige, whatever) and B: setting it within a framework of rules that makes outright violence the least desirable option.
after you have that in place come up with 2-however many competitors with various motivations and perhaps subgoals and you have intrigue
you don’t need to make the situation and backstory easy to understand at the outset; you need to make understanding crucial to navigating the ruleset successfully. they will naturally uncover and gain understanding through that
edit: that is to say i don’t think you should get so bogged down in the “mechanics” of devilish politics and how one ascends the ranks. contrive a way for them to do it even as mortals, and let the consequences ripple out naturally. that’s the kind of stuff that changes campaigns and makes memorable moments
Once again, don't know what sort of campaign you're running, but:
1) becoming archdevil is an adventure unto itself. Perhaps once you're done doing whatever it is you're currently doing you can put that into focus but it isn't something I'd want to sideline. I mean it sounds like your players are a bunch of murderhobos, it would give them a chance to explore the price of their fealty, for example. Perhaps the PC wanting to become the archdevil doesn't because someone else in the party outwitted him/her.
2) There's 2 ways to become a devil: be another sort of outsider and become one (ala Zariel) or be a mortal, die, and have your soul twisted until it's ready. Perhaps the PC (once again, sounds like a murderhobo, so pretty evil already) could barter to skip the torture and be able to keep his memories. The campaign could then becomes a twisted pokemon game where the party guide and nurture their little lemure all the way up to archdevil status!
3) If he's going to stay mortal and try rule the hells (again, not sure if Glasya or Asmodeus are going to rule in the PCs favour), he's going to have to find a way to become immortal. Otherwise he's a barely noticable interruption in the standard day to day runnings of the nine hells.
Those are all great points! I'll have to take them into consideration.
I'll say I'm generally a "yes, and..." type of DM. For example, when one of my players said her new tiefling PC was one of Asmodeus' daughters I allowed it, but decided that Glasya ignores her and Asmodeus has only appeared to her three times in her life, and two of those being through a cloud of smoke shaped like his head. However, she also is able to enter and leave her tower of Nessus as she pleases, and she was trained in magic at an academy run by one of Mephistopheles' pit fiends.
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Yo so long as the player is cool with how their character went out, give that player their new character.
I would probably ask them if they would be fine with their character coming back as some kind of eldritch werebeast mutation aberration monster the party needs to fight off, but I'm just going off generalized old one vibes. Their old one seems like it might not be into that kinda stuff.
Werewolves are immune to non-magical bludgeoning damage. So the mechanics are there for him to survive. The standard rule is also that if a character becomes a werewolf or vampire they also get NPCed.
This touches on a read that I'm not sure is right but is poking around the edges of my thoughts. So there is a kind of RPG player who will always be all grass is greener for some other PC. They'll think the other player is clearly doing better and so they should just copy what that PC is doing. While I think this is a shitty thing to do it seems like a natural occurrence. The big takeaway I have is that you changing isn't going to solve the problem. Not if you go off and do cool things and play well as some other class. That is just going to change which grass they think is greenest. Their could be other stuff going on. Maybe the campaign really does just favor spell casters because of encounter composition or whatever. But...
In fifth edition, I honestly think rogues are back to being Batman.
For fifth edition we should pick a new pop culture character to compare to wizards.
I nominate Dr. Strange.
IMO if a player wants their character to die, you as the DM should verify with the player that yes, they intend their character to die, and then it should just automatically happen. In this case, that would have meant not rolling for the fall damage.
Just story mode it and say that the fall kills them
To be honest I'm thinking of just leaving because its tied into irl conflicts and feelings. Like this guy is my best friend but I don't think I'm his. I suck at confrontations and knowing when to stand my ground. Am I blowing this out of proportions or is it a big deal? Do I bring up my own complaints? Since he told me others feel the same way I now feel like I'm ruining the game for everyone. It's so much stress for something that should be fun.
Fey Paladin best paladin.
OK so everyone in 10 feet gets +3 to all their saves... and youre resistant to spell damage.... and ive got 5xlevel extra healing/day. So just like... drop that fireball right on me
this has drifted out of "our party comp isn't working" territory into "there are real problems between the real humans at the table".
you should absolutely have a real talk with your friend. share these feelings and reach an understanding. it's not about "standing your ground" or "raising grievances" at this point--you guys need to square this up in a private conversation. do not treat this like a battle to be won or lost.
if it seems there are issues between you and the other players, do the same thing. and if at the end of the day you guys aren't friends, then you should bail. but if you just run away from this you may never know what the actual root cause was, and possibly the growth (for all parties involved) that this entails.
COMMUNICATE
The Devotion Paladin Channel Divinity is pretty dang good too, though. +Cha to your attack rolls? Heck yeah! You can use the GWM power attack and have minimal penalty!
And being immune to charm has come up more often than I thought it would.
I can't watch anything on my commute but listening is okay.
I like listening to Not Another D&D Podcast. It's a let's play podcast but the DM running it is real good with rolling with the incredibly dumb stuff that the players come up with, and also incorporating their character stories into future episodes.
Warning this isnt a super serious game, though there are high stakes and some emotional moments. The players just like to goof a bit and have a habit of not realizing how serious an encounter is.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
- Geryon used to be ruler of Stygia, but now Levistus is in his place as ruler.
- One of Geryon's loyal servants, Agares, was said in the 3E era to have supposedly betrayed his master to serve Levistus, but is secretly colluding with the god Set.
- Another loyal servant, Amon, colludes with Glasya, and together they both plan to kill Levistus, Belial, Baalzebul, and Mammon (preferably in that order).
- Glasya in 4E is said to be collaborating with Fierna against Levistus while also turning her against her father Belial. In 5E she is Mephistopheles' goddaughter.
- In 4E Geryon is said to be planning an alliance with either Tiamat or a god named Zehir. The D&D development team later admitted that Zehir was essentially a renamed Set.
- In 2E the headquarters of a caste of devilkind called the assassin devils was in Stygia. In 4E the assassin devils were said to have had a queen named Svidanfi. Also in 4E, Zehir had a daughter by an unknown devil (possibly Svidanfi) that for a time was a powerful assassin before eventually being destroyed by her father's most potent god-killing venom for turning into a goddess of redemption.
- In 5E Geryon has returned to Stygia, but still is not ruler.
My idea is that Geryon, Agares, Amon, and Svidanfi collaborate to summon an aspect of Zehir, receive his venom, kill Levistus and give Stygia back over to Geryon. Geryon and Amon collaborate with Glasya, Mephistopheles, and Fierna to kill Belial, followed by Baalzebul and Mammon.
The reason I'm doing all this is because one PC wants to become an archdevil and another has been smitten by Glasya, so they may be convinced to join in on a war that will majorly shake-up the Hells' power structure.
The reason I'm doing all this is because one PC wants to become an archdevil and another has been smitten by Glasya, so they may be convinced to join in on a war that will majorly shake-up the Hells' power structure.
I'm thinking of next session starting with a garden party at Glasya's palace that quickly is revealed to have been a set-up for the PCs to kill a bunch of her political rivals
His only job in the module is to ferry the party somewhere and give details about he Ordening and the plot, correct?
Why can't he ferry the party from Triboar to Everlund, I stead of Nightstone to Triboar?
He never even showed up in my SKT campaign. I decided that his castle was too goofy and my party wouldn't respond well to the 'fated heroes' angle he wants to throw around, so I cut him! Instead after chapter 2 right at the start of chapter 3 they had a long discussion with a Harper Wizard (with illusory powerpoints!) about the Ordning.
Maybe the Z man will appear in the campaign sometime if I have need of him.
Right. Ok. My point though is that the PCs need some inkling of the greater plot at hand, rather than just a random giant attack, which is all you get starting at Chapter 2. The module uses a goofy cloud giant in Chapter 1, where you used a Harper wizard.
The story needs something to tell the players that there is a story here, and not just an encounter with giants.
I think Mike/Gabe might have opined on some of his 4e DMing experiences in news posts and the like, but as for releases? There is only, as far as I know, this:
http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/acqinc
Humble Bundle had some from 3rd party companies (but I never bought/played them so I don't know how good they are)
Matt Coleville’s “Running the Game” series on YouTube is, like, 98% audio. You could put that on, put your phone facedown, and not miss much of anything.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
I'm wanting to do a bit of infernal political intrigue between the archdevils (and spent a lot of time on Thursday researching them), but 1) I'm not sure how to go about giving the players the background info in a way they'll be able to quickly understand, and 2) it's kinda hard to imagine the complicated web of schemes that the archdevils would have cooked up to dick each other over.
Plus there's also still a lich running around.
And I've previously established that a NPC one of the PCs is going after is a servant of Graz'zt.
The party (which includes a daughter of Asmodeus, a paladin attracted to Princess Glasya, and a wizard who wants to take over Stygia from Archduke Levistus) is charged by Glasya with locating Levistus' obelisk and recording his true name so that he may be deposed. She intends for Geryon, the master of Glasya's consort Amon, to regain rulership of Stygia.
However, the PC who wants to rule Stygia himself has secretly been given a shard of the Heart of the Abyss, receiving it from an avatar of Graz'zt. With it he may carve his own true name into the obelisk, though there will certainly be major ramifications if he does. Plus there will likely be other agents of Glasya tailing the party in secret to attack them if they do anything Glasya wouldn't approve of.
Not sure how you're running your lore but why does your wizard want to take orders from Asmodeus?
Not only that, but given that your wizard PC is going to take power by not honouring a deal I'm rather positive Asmodeus will just simply dust him.
Well, the wizard PC may decide not to use this. I could also have the contract with Glasya worded so that, going by the letter of the deal, tampering with the obelisk is not technically forbidden (devils go by the rules as written, not by their intent). The situation is basically Graz'zt tempting him with an easier path to power. The wizard's soul also belongs to another minor archdevil until he kills the avatar of Graz'zt (he may try to kill the avatar then and there, but given that he'll be encountering the avatar alone he probably won't risk it), and the avatar will instead suggest killing that archdevil to get his soul back instead.
It's also canon that there has been at least one major rebellion in Hell already, and the most Asmodeus did against the perpetrators was to exile and/or disempower them. It could be that he'd use kids gloves for this sort of thing if he thinks it could further his goals long-term. For another example, Mephistopheles once used a persona called Molikroth to lead a rebellion against himself just so he could find out who was disloyal to him. The devils, the archdevils in particular, are devious long-term schemers.
BTW, I'm conceptualizing Graz'zt as being a former archdevil, as well as the son of Asmodeus and the mysterious demon lord Pale Night. His long term goals are to develop a council of allied demon lords, conquer the Nine Hells, and use the combined forces of the Abyss and the Hells (at least those devils who bend the knee) to conquer the multiverse
I also imagine that many loopholes are intentional, meant both to be exploited by the archdevils and to test how well others can understand and exploit them.
Thing is, the only form of currency valuable to a devil *is* a soul.
If you're going by 5e fluff, there are 4 dialects of infernal, the higher ones reserved for the archdevils alone (making contracts written it in rather difficult to grasp).
I don't know what sort of campaign you're running and how high levelled these PCs are but to me it's always a disappointment when some scrubby wannabe gets one over on some millennia old entity.
If the wizard can violate his agreement with Glasya without consequences I'd be bummed out.
Well to be honest I didn't start doing a lot of research into the Hells until after that player said he wanted his PC to become an archdevil eventually. I'm trying to figure out different ways to handle this.
- The idea of having a special obelisk with a true name on it is loosely inspired by one of the possible endings of the Neverwinter Nights campaign "Hordes of the Underdark", except there all you have to do to get Mephistopheles' true name is pay a guy a bunch of gold. In that game, with the true name you can order Mephistopheles to die, become your servant, or hand rulership of his layer of the Hells over to you.
- Another idea is that the PC could literally swap places with Levistus, becoming entombed in the glacier prison. He would be the most safe from other archdevils here.
- He could also go the legitimate route, but that doesn't seem that exciting.
- He could also shift gears and try to take over an Abyssal layer instead, but that's also extremely difficult.
There is precedent for non-devils to control layers, like the Hag Countess, but things didn't really work out well for her. No matter what, there would be consequences.
1) becoming archdevil is an adventure unto itself. Perhaps once you're done doing whatever it is you're currently doing you can put that into focus but it isn't something I'd want to sideline. I mean it sounds like your players are a bunch of murderhobos, it would give them a chance to explore the price of their fealty, for example. Perhaps the PC wanting to become the archdevil doesn't because someone else in the party outwitted him/her.
2) There's 2 ways to become a devil: be another sort of outsider and become one (ala Zariel) or be a mortal, die, and have your soul twisted until it's ready. Perhaps the PC (once again, sounds like a murderhobo, so pretty evil already) could barter to skip the torture and be able to keep his memories. The campaign could then becomes a twisted pokemon game where the party guide and nurture their little lemure all the way up to archdevil status!
3) If he's going to stay mortal and try rule the hells (again, not sure if Glasya or Asmodeus are going to rule in the PCs favour), he's going to have to find a way to become immortal. Otherwise he's a barely noticable interruption in the standard day to day runnings of the nine hells.
after you have that in place come up with 2-however many competitors with various motivations and perhaps subgoals and you have intrigue
you don’t need to make the situation and backstory easy to understand at the outset; you need to make understanding crucial to navigating the ruleset successfully. they will naturally uncover and gain understanding through that
edit: that is to say i don’t think you should get so bogged down in the “mechanics” of devilish politics and how one ascends the ranks. contrive a way for them to do it even as mortals, and let the consequences ripple out naturally. that’s the kind of stuff that changes campaigns and makes memorable moments
Those are all great points! I'll have to take them into consideration.
I'll say I'm generally a "yes, and..." type of DM. For example, when one of my players said her new tiefling PC was one of Asmodeus' daughters I allowed it, but decided that Glasya ignores her and Asmodeus has only appeared to her three times in her life, and two of those being through a cloud of smoke shaped like his head. However, she also is able to enter and leave her tower of Nessus as she pleases, and she was trained in magic at an academy run by one of Mephistopheles' pit fiends.