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  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    Marching as part of your company at a (let's face it) corporate advertising event is essentially doing PR work, so I would recommend only doing it if 1) you are comfortable having your identity being used to promote your company and 2) you get paaaid.

    And yeah, this would need to be during the work day or with the understanding that you'd get a day off in exchange

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Marching as part of your company at a (let's face it) corporate advertising event is essentially doing PR work, so I would recommend only doing it if 1) you are comfortable having your identity being used to promote your company and 2) you get paaaid.

    And then smash something in the c-suite on the way back in to let them know you are on to them.

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  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    .

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Marching as part of your company at a (let's face it) corporate advertising event is essentially doing PR work, so I would recommend only doing it if 1) you are comfortable having your identity being used to promote your company and 2) you get paaaid.

    I mean no, I would be doing it in order to hang out with my queer community (which consists almost entirely of work people) and to not just go to pride alone, because that makes me feel sad.
    Secondary benefits would include free tshirts and maybe other swag, idk, and probably free drinks after
    I’m also pretty interested in pushing the narrative that it is possible for trans people to be rich+successful corporate tools just like anyone else...
    I am well-compensated enough (big 4 consulting firm) and get enough pto that it would not really be necessary to pay me. (Heh also the amount of not-work I do on the company dime is...a lot. So I wouldn’t begrudge them this if I wanted to go.)

    That said, I don’t think marching would actually be fun (too warm! I don’t like smiling or waving!) and I feel extremely conflicted about working for a megacorp, so wearing a shirt with their name on it in public is probably a step too far for me.

    But this does mean that I probably won’t go at all cause I have no one to go with.

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  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy The Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm The City of FlowersRegistered User regular
    edited May 2019
    schuss wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    schuss wrote: »
    credeiki wrote: »
    hm I have the opportunity to walk in the DC pride parade with my company which is sponsoring

    on the one hand, ew; on the other hand, the company has actually been better at creating queer community for me than anywhere else except for this thread, and I'm also like, hm well if my trans friends from my office are going, maybe I could go with them? But also I don't really want to be a corporate tool; but also I do work for a megacorp and can't really pretend I don't

    not really sure; I guess first let's see if any of my trans colleague friends are going to go

    If you March with your company, it helps reinforce that it's important they continue supporting it.

    I don't think I will; plus the gay consultant group is huge and the parade has been quite full the past couple years
    I am going to be a panelist for a company pride event though

    "don't worry, you only should say what you're comfortable saying"
    lol
    as if just existing as a trans person day to day weren't uncomfortable for me every single day, let alone talking about it at all, ever, with anyone
    there's such a lack of understanding there...
    but whatever, it's a perspective I think should be heard, and it would be good for me to talk about these things to become less uncomfortable with them. How to frame my narrative in a way that is true but doesn't make me terribly vulnerable in a corporate setting should be....interesting.

    Props to you for stepping up. As a regular straight white dude, it always stuns me all the people that don't take a second to think how fucking hard being trans is from any number of angles.

    I'm also a "regular" person...there's just some social interactions that stress me out.

    Doesn't keep me from being a normal white collar professional whose main concerns are my career trajectory and my abysmal LoL elo :P I think people not in the community have a 'trans narrative' or 'trans experience' in mind and I can tell you, what you have in mind is almost certainly not relevant to me.

    Trans people are just people. Specific narratives around groups that paints with a broad brush are likely inaccurate. Trans people shouldn't have to March or agitate for things, they should just be treated with respect and acceptance like one should treat everyone.

    Yes. I gently suggest that cis people keep that in mind when I hear them use terms like ‘regular’ to refer to themselves. Words like that and ‘normal’ are not neutral—they implicitly mark other identities as ‘abnormal’.
    credeiki wrote: »
    Marching as part of your company at a (let's face it) corporate advertising event is essentially doing PR work, so I would recommend only doing it if 1) you are comfortable having your identity being used to promote your company and 2) you get paaaid.

    I mean no, I would be doing it in order to hang out with my queer community (which consists almost entirely of work people) and to not just go to pride alone, because that makes me feel sad.
    Secondary benefits would include free tshirts and maybe other swag, idk, and probably free drinks after
    I’m also pretty interested in pushing the narrative that it is possible for trans people to be rich+successful corporate tools just like anyone else...
    I am well-compensated enough (big 4 consulting firm) and get enough pto that it would not really be necessary to pay me. (Heh also the amount of not-work I do on the company dime is...a lot. So I wouldn’t begrudge them this if I wanted to go.)

    That said, I don’t think marching would actually be fun (too warm! I don’t like smiling or waving!) and I feel extremely conflicted about working for a megacorp, so wearing a shirt with their name on it in public is probably a step too far for me.

    But this does mean that I probably won’t go at all cause I have no one to go with.

    I am probably going to march with my company’s pride thing—I also signed up to be someone they might interview for a feature on the corporate website, etc. it’s not the most comfortable thing for me, but I find I have to do a lot more networking than I used to in order to get things done, and I am trying to put myself into a position to argue for better health coverage for transitioning employees. So many (mostly cis) people in our lgbtq+ affinity group are clapping themselves on the back for getting HRT and GCS covered, without considering how much all of those ‘cosmetic’ aspects cost. Right now it seems I am the only person who thinks that every health plan should provide the same benefits that Starbucks does.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    Yeah, doing this sort of thing is also useful networking for me, especially because I’m not naturally social and I seriously don’t want to deal with the bullshit involved in the company’s ‘machine learning guild’. Doing diversity and inclusion stuff is one of the easier ways to network and also fulfill my ‘firm contribution’ requirements (barfffffff) without having to like...actually do work.

    Hm I should probably see if I can convince any of my local gays to actually come to pride with me instead of dithering about the corporate parade and sulking...plus I think one of the work friends is going but not with the corporate crowd, so maybe I could join up with her; we’ll see.

    A feature about a trans lady on our company website is what started the whole internal trans group thing going at my company! Maybe you’ll find yourself with a whole queer cadre as a result :D

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  • The BetgirlThe Betgirl I'm Molly! Registered User regular
    credeiki wrote: »
    Marching as part of your company at a (let's face it) corporate advertising event is essentially doing PR work, so I would recommend only doing it if 1) you are comfortable having your identity being used to promote your company and 2) you get paaaid.

    I mean no, I would be doing it in order to hang out with my queer community (which consists almost entirely of work people) and to not just go to pride alone, because that makes me feel sad.
    Secondary benefits would include free tshirts and maybe other swag, idk, and probably free drinks after
    I’m also pretty interested in pushing the narrative that it is possible for trans people to be rich+successful corporate tools just like anyone else...
    I am well-compensated enough (big 4 consulting firm) and get enough pto that it would not really be necessary to pay me. (Heh also the amount of not-work I do on the company dime is...a lot. So I wouldn’t begrudge them this if I wanted to go.)

    But this does mean that I probably won’t go at all cause I have no one to go with.

    Okay I need to just break this down for a second. First of all, going with work friends to pride in that stuff IS doing pr work for them. You can call it whatever you want but corporate involvement in pride is a Big Problem. I understand that you're talking about not doing it as well, which is fine, but whether you want it to be or not, everything you're talking about is political. Actions have consequences. Let's not pretend otherwise.

    Second, the idea that we would want to push the narrative that "Trans people can be rich and successful corporate tools just like anyone else" is just so far beyond the pale that I can't believe im reading it? Why would we want to stand in uniform with these horrific capitalist values? You're only gaining for yourself. The only thing this promotes is the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality. Think about what you're saying here.

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  • mysticjuicermysticjuicer [he/him] I'm a muscle wizard and I cast P U N C HRegistered User regular
    I think you’re reading something sinister into a tongue-in-cheek turn of phrase there.

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  • PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    I can understand where Cred seems to be coming from with the showing people that Trans folk can be successful, because while my family were pretty good about my coming out, the major sticking point in my life and one which has still stuck with me to this day was a significant worry that by coming out I'd be shooting my future livelihood, to show that it doesn't is useful.

    I don't think police have a place at pride. I also don't think governments or government organization have a place at pride.
    Corporations are a debate in my mind, each one should be an individual assessment, but I lean towards letting them participate, because while they don't have morality - just whatever makes them money, and I want them to think/realize that hiring and promoting QUILTBAG voices is good for them.

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  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    Yeah, it's not a bad thing. My wife was freaked out I was basically resigning us to destitution which is pretty much the opposite of what really did happen.

    It was stories like Cred's and others that made her feel safe.

    Visibility in all manners is always a plus.

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
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  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I would rather go to a pride event that imagines and fights for a world where we are not beholden to corporations to save us from destitution

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  • SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Since when does "I want to represent that Trans people can be successful" become "I want to drink the blood of the innocent and let the sprit of Ronald Reagan enter me so I can become the avatar of capatalisim" ?

    This really is quite the over reaction to what he was saying.

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    It's the broader context of it being success within a corporate structure, as collectively, every single corporation is second only behind most major governments as the biggest progenitors of our lack of success as a class. There is no path forward for the LGBT community within capitalism and while, yes, individuals can be successful within that structure, it comes at the continued expense of the community at large. The presence of corporations at Pride is a direct assault on the original founding ideal of Pride which is a radical act against the structures that oppress us.

    You can say you just want to represent that trans people can be successful, but the reality of the situation we're in is more complex than that, and the social context of what Pride was meant to represent versus what it has become cannot be extricated from a statement like that.

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    There is a considerable rift between queers that want to dismantle and rebuild this fetid society and those that wanna just be another cog in it.

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I think Cred probably gets the point y'all are making and we can move on.

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  • NarbusNarbus Registered User regular
    I get to see John Waters tonight! I'm very excited.

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  • credeikicredeiki Registered User regular
    oh hm I didn't really get the chance to rebut here cause I was wandering around on vacation and didn't look at the thread.

    there are some...interesting...assumptions being made about me here; fortunately, at this point in time, I don't see any need to take to heart the thoughtless and uncharitable opinions of internet strangers on my moral fiber. That said, it's really quite hostile and unwelcoming, and if I were in a worse place in my life I think I'd be pretty hurt.

    Fortunately right now I feel good about my life, so I don't mind reading this right at the moment. But I'd encourage you to be a bit more empathetic in how you engage people in dialogue.

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  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I like the television show "pose"

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  • The BetgirlThe Betgirl I'm Molly! Registered User regular
    credeiki wrote: »
    oh hm I didn't really get the chance to rebut here cause I was wandering around on vacation and didn't look at the thread.

    there are some...interesting...assumptions being made about me here; fortunately, at this point in time, I don't see any need to take to heart the thoughtless and uncharitable opinions of internet strangers on my moral fiber. That said, it's really quite hostile and unwelcoming, and if I were in a worse place in my life I think I'd be pretty hurt.

    Fortunately right now I feel good about my life, so I don't mind reading this right at the moment. But I'd encourage you to be a bit more empathetic in how you engage people in dialogue.

    This is maybe the most condescending thing anyone has said to me in my entire life, which is fairly impressive, and even further I'm amazed at how many people are just going to jump on this boat. Continually in this thread anyone who's been a leftist has been pushed out time and time again and I don't know why I'll ever expect that to change.

    i'm really glad you're having fun on your vacation. Super happy you can enjoy the luxuries of being a higher up at some executive firm that gives you the privilege to not have to worry about being poor, about trying to get through your life, everything like that. I'm really glad we can all come together to tell me to watch my tone when I call someone out on talking about how trans people should learn to engrain themselves in these kinds of politics, to try and join up into the ranks of capitalism and prove that we too can be successful while the world fucking burns around us.

    I really hope you can find something positive to be here. But if this is how it's going to be, I'm out. Enjoy your centrist circlejerk.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    credeiki wrote: »
    oh hm I didn't really get the chance to rebut here cause I was wandering around on vacation and didn't look at the thread.

    there are some...interesting...assumptions being made about me here; fortunately, at this point in time, I don't see any need to take to heart the thoughtless and uncharitable opinions of internet strangers on my moral fiber. That said, it's really quite hostile and unwelcoming, and if I were in a worse place in my life I think I'd be pretty hurt.

    Fortunately right now I feel good about my life, so I don't mind reading this right at the moment. But I'd encourage you to be a bit more empathetic in how you engage people in dialogue.

    This is maybe the most condescending thing anyone has said to me in my entire life, which is fairly impressive, and even further I'm amazed at how many people are just going to jump on this boat. Continually in this thread anyone who's been a leftist has been pushed out time and time again and I don't know why I'll ever expect that to change.

    i'm really glad you're having fun on your vacation. Super happy you can enjoy the luxuries of being a higher up at some executive firm that gives you the privilege to not have to worry about being poor, about trying to get through your life, everything like that. I'm really glad we can all come together to tell me to watch my tone when I call someone out on talking about how trans people should learn to engrain themselves in these kinds of politics, to try and join up into the ranks of capitalism and prove that we too can be successful while the world fucking burns around us.

    I really hope you can find something positive to be here. But if this is how it's going to be, I'm out. Enjoy your centrist circlejerk.

    There were like four increasingly gooshish responses after yours you know. So maybe consider that wasn't *entirely* in response to you.

    And yeah when the general you is on "My politics gives me an excuse to be a horrible person" train you're going to get hostile responses. Surprise!

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Isn't it nice that we're all moving on from this discussion now

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    This hurts but I deserve it

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I'm worried I might've damaged my wig and made it shed a lot of hair

    I was at the hairdresser and she was really nice but also kinda rough with it, so I thought it would be okay if I was a little less careful with it

    Probably need to show it to someone

    I'm going to take the IQ test and other tests on Wednesday, it's still super-unclear when I can start HRT and it's frustrating me a lot

    mysticjuicer
  • Curly_BraceCurly_Brace Robot Girl Mimiga VillageRegistered User regular
    Capitalism as a system only cares about the LGBTQIA community so much as it's a vector for increased profits.

    If corporations really cared about the LGBTQIA community they'd pay high corporate tax rates so every damn queer person (and people in general) would never starve, go homeless, or die from preventable diseases.

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  • mysticjuicermysticjuicer [he/him] I'm a muscle wizard and I cast P U N C HRegistered User regular
    Platy, can you take it to that same hairdresser and see if they’ll have a look at it?

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    I could but I'd probably also need them to make corrections, struggling with my social anxiety

    I'm at the clinic and the receptionist keeps misgendering me

    Platy on
  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Kayne Red Robe was warned for this.
    Edit: Disregard, I am fashionably late to a banned topic.

    Kayne Red Robe on
  • WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    Please stop sniping at each other about capitalism, this is the third time on this page we told y’all to drop it, I’m going to start infracting people until morale improves

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  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    In other news my work is handing out rainbow cupcakes next Friday for Pride month and it's such an empty gesture I think I'd be happier if they didn't acknowledge it at all.

  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    In other news my work is handing out rainbow cupcakes next Friday for Pride month and it's such an empty gesture I think I'd be happier if they didn't acknowledge it at all.

    Is this at least being done with like, the company social committee involved or is it just "the execs want to recognize that we employ diverse workers so have a cupcake, and for those who don't subscribe to queers being real actual human beings, at least you get a cupcake?"

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Oh boy is it Pride month again

    I've been in this hamster wheel since December but it seems now that I have the psychiatrist's support for HRT

    I unfortunately still need to get my internal organs and my genitals looked at, I really wish I'd made those appointments sooner but it was very difficult with my general anxiety and the other things I had to worry about

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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I'm glad you're making progress, Platy.

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  • Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Voice actor of Arthur Morgan in RDR2 recorded a pro-trans rights vid

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Terfs ain’t got no friends

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

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  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    In other news my work is handing out rainbow cupcakes next Friday for Pride month and it's such an empty gesture I think I'd be happier if they didn't acknowledge it at all.

    Is this at least being done with like, the company social committee involved or is it just "the execs want to recognize that we employ diverse workers so have a cupcake, and for those who don't subscribe to queers being real actual human beings, at least you get a cupcake?"

    Ehh, sorta. Technically it's at the behest of our Pride employee resource group. Which would be great, except said group is basically just the weekend plant manager and whoever she can rope into things.

  • TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    edited May 2019
    After being a coward these past few years, I finally proposed to my fan-group that we make a public support of pride. Rainbows, donations, etc. I was a little worried I was inviting a "why do you have to make this into politics!?" reaction from at least somebody, but I got a majority vote to go-ahead with it! Not a single person voted against so it was effectively a shut-out!

    I've decided to glitz-out our logo in identity flags and all the donations from our t-shirt store are going to go to Lost-n-Found Youth of Atlanta, an organization that houses and advocates for LGBTQI+ homeless youth.

    So far I've gotten something I'm into out of the logo and I might swap the ghost out for the GB2 variant so I can have them holding nonbinary/genderqueer and asexual flags in their hand. Trying to get it to work in the lettering is overloading it, I think.
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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Sent a coming out message to my favourite aunt today. She responded with "I'd already guessed." I don't know if that's literally true or she just means she isn't surprised, but either way it's a relief. One more person ticked off.

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  • chr1sh4ll3ttb3chr1sh4ll3ttb3 A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    TankHammer wrote: »
    Trying to get out to work in the lettering is overloading it, I think.

    Yeah the lettering as well is just too much, it's already a pretty busy logo.

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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Sent a coming out message to my favourite aunt today. She responded with "I'd already guessed." I don't know if that's literally true or she just means she isn't surprised, but either way it's a relief. One more person ticked off.

    Apparently this was in fact literally true. Turns out my mum was visiting her yesterday and today told me, "During dinner [aunt] actually asked 'Does [smof] want to be a boy?' and then half an hour later she got your message." Which, wow.

    Anyway she (my aunt) messaged me today and offered to speak to my grandparents for me, and I took her up on it because for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to have that conversation, and then I got a phonecall from my grandparents saying they're fine with it and want me to be happy, only my grandad was kind of not making sense because he's had too many strokes and he can't get his words right, but it was pretty clear what he was trying to convey, and I think the only reason I didn't cry on the phone was because testosterone.

    So today was a good day.

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