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Penny Arcade - Comic - The Cockpit

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
edited October 10 in The Penny Arcade Hub

imagePenny Arcade - Comic - The Cockpit

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here


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Posts

  • ProwlingmonkeyProwlingmonkey Registered User regular
    My dad is one of those people

  • JayCarrJayCarr Registered User regular
    edited October 10
    If playing racing games in first person means I want to be "inside" the car as it were. Then what does my playing Doom in first person say about me and Bald Space Marines?

    Mmmmm......Dooooooooom.

    JayCarr on
  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist ኢትዮጵያRegistered User regular
    I didn't realise it was weird to prefer playing driving games in first-person perspective.

    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    I like to play giant mech games first-person, and some of those mechs might have names like "Bushwacker", "Commando" and "Mauler"...

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Solvent wrote: »
    I didn't realise it was weird to prefer playing driving games in first-person perspective.

    It's not. It's also not weird to play flight simulators from....inside the aircraft.

    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • ZenigataZenigata Registered User regular
    edited October 10
    For realistic styled racers like Forza or Dirt Rally, always first person. Gives a feeling as though you're actually driving the car and the interiors are fully detailed and modeled. As someone who very much enjoys driving in reality, I prefer my game experience to mimic what I can experience and since I'm not a detached floating head looking at my car from above I never could go for that view for more than just a moment or two to hear the in-game car from the outside.

    For stuff like Mario Kart and other arcadey racers, third person is the go to. There's no missing out equivalent and the handling characteristics often defy any real possibilities.

    Zenigata on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I don't play racing games for realism or immersion. I play to win races. And 3rd person provides a better perspective and a situational awareness advantage. So I use 3rd person for all racing games of any type, realistic or not.

  • SatoricalSatorical Registered User new member
    "There was one room that was always kept locked. It was...THE GARAGE!"

  • swaylowswaylow Registered User regular
    I really enjoyed reading the entire comic before I noticed the title. That got a good laugh out of me, well done.

  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Solvent wrote: »
    I didn't realise it was weird to prefer playing driving games in first-person perspective.

    It's not. It's also not weird to play flight simulators from....inside the aircraft.

    Whatever you need to tell yourselves, perverts.

    thepit_bg_sig_banner.png
  • jaball77jaball77 Registered User regular
    edited October 10
    I am a car guy who likes racing games and races cars in real life. I would argue that 3rd person perspective is actually more realistic in terms of the information you have about your car and how it's located in space relative to everything else. Viewing first person camera on a monitor you lose all your peripheral vision and have a very narrow view of the track. (YMMV if you're using one of those new fangled VR rigs...)

    Not to mention being able to see when the car is sliding or yawing is much easier from the 3rd person view. In real life you can feel these things happening but from the first person camera it's hard to tell until it's too late.

    jaball77 on
  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    We just need the Jurassic World Evolution and Forza Horizon 4 cross-over game to really plumb those depths.

    Mugsley wrote:
    So now I need to get it trimmed and adjusted, and all in.

    Steam:MichaelLC
  • v2miccav2micca Registered User regular
    When you are in one of these:
    Rtgvlht.jpg
    You want to play in the first person.

  • Mike FehlauerMike Fehlauer Registered User, Penny Arcade Staff regular
    Playing Mad Max in first person was difficult, and often confusing, but was also fun as hell.

    JABALL77 articulates it, though. First Person seems like it should be the most "realistic", but it's not--unless you're driving a WWII tank and viewing through a small gun port. The lack of peripheral vision and absence of your other senses can be somewhat mitigated by third person view. First person view just exacerbates those handicaps.

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Get one of those and only play third person.

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Zenigata wrote: »
    For realistic styled racers like Forza or Dirt Rally, always first person. Gives a feeling as though you're actually driving the car and the interiors are fully detailed and modeled. As someone who very much enjoys driving in reality, I prefer my game experience to mimic what I can experience and since I'm not a detached floating head looking at my car from above I never could go for that view for more than just a moment or two to hear the in-game car from the outside.

    For stuff like Mario Kart and other arcadey racers, third person is the go to. There's no missing out equivalent and the handling characteristics often defy any real possibilities.

    I'm also very much a car guy in real life.

    But I play racing games in 3rd person when I'm trying to win and cockpit only if goofing around.

    1) I don't have a wrap around set-up so driving in cockpit view is not akin to the experience of actually driving. Being able to glance left and right naturally and see your surroundings is kinda of a big thing. Third person gives you the ability to actually see beside you which tends to be important.

    2) I love seeing whatever car I'm driving. I picked a rad car because it's a rad car that I probably love so I want to see it as much as possible.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I played GTA V from start to finish in First Person, and it was definitely an immersive experience. I agree with those who've said that it's not really more realistic though: in real driving you can easily look to your left and right and check your mirrors with a quick glance, that isn't true when you're playing a game short of using a head tracking or VR setup. GTA V in first person is very much a challenge mode.

  • GrendusGrendus Registered User regular
    Playing a racing game in first person is a lot of fun in VR, I will say. In fact, cockpit games in general are great in VR because they solve the locomotion problem. No need to figure out how to map an entire world into arms reach when you're already in something that moves for you.

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Quantronic Dreamgirl Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I played GTA V from start to finish in First Person, and it was definitely an immersive experience. I agree with those who've said that it's not really more realistic though: in real driving you can easily look to your left and right and check your mirrors with a quick glance, that isn't true when you're playing a game short of using a head tracking or VR setup. GTA V in first person is very much a challenge mode.

    There's a few games that do stuff to try and compensate for this in neat ways: Red Orchestra has artificial peripheral vision through small dots that appear on the sides of your screen when someone is moving in your periphery. They're not obtrusive but the blurry movement is enough to drag your mind's attention to investigate that direction.

  • Hawk oneHawk one Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I don't play racing games for realism or immersion. I play to win races. And 3rd person provides a better perspective and a situational awareness advantage. So I use 3rd person for all racing games of any type, realistic or not.

    I also play racing games to win and 1st person is generally much, much better at helping me win. For one thing, in 3rd person, I always overcompensate when I start sliding, because 3rd person shows the exact car angle; whereas (practically all) 1st person car game views basically helps me by pointing at where I'll be going as soon as I stop turning. This makes it much easier for me to adjust the car accurately. It's sort of like how most platform games allows you to jump a little bit after running off the platform.

    And on pure racing games, I don't usually feel like I need situational awareness apart from knowing what's straight ahead of me. Cars on my sides will soon stop being on my sides and end up either in front of or behind me. And if they don't, then usually I can ignore them.

    But signatures don't really work, do they?
  • Hawk oneHawk one Registered User regular
    And frankly, I find the whole strip to be confusing. If the cars is more important than the race, I'd assume that you'd want to be able to look at the car as much as possible. Especially if you're playing a game like Need For Speed Underground 2 (which I still think is the best "Pretty Pretty Dress Up With Cars" game ever made. Oh, I guess it also had some racing); you'd want to be able to look at your pimped out masterpiece as much as possible, no?

    I mean, even if you're the person who wants to be "inside" the car... Well, I (a cis male) might like sex, but when looking at porn, I still prefer to look at the outside of the person.

    But signatures don't really work, do they?
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    You know I'd long thought it was strange I couldn't play a racing game in first person despite driving all the time. But you guys mentioning the fundamental differences in being able to process tacticle feed back in real life and your ability to visualize does make it make more sense.

    3rd person for life now.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • LarryMcFlyLarryMcFly Registered User new member
    It is easy to explain: First person = Realism.
    You know...the view you experience when you drive a car?
    If you don't understand that, then I invite you to a simple chase on the Autobahn.
    I drive inside my car and you drive yours while you sit or stand on the roof.
    I really would like to see how you manage...

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Breaking the foundation Collapse the controlRegistered User regular
    LarryMcFly wrote: »
    It is easy to explain: First person = Realism.
    You know...the view you experience when you drive a car?
    If you don't understand that, then I invite you to a simple chase on the Autobahn.
    I drive inside my car and you drive yours while you sit or stand on the roof.
    I really would like to see how you manage...

    wat

    Make. Time.
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Will we be provided with a some sort of modified car that can be driven from the roof?

    Tits! Tits! Tits! Tits! Tits! Tits!
  • McFodderMcFodder 'SploringRegistered User regular
    LarryMcFly wrote: »
    It is easy to explain: First person = Realism.
    You know...the view you experience when you drive a car?
    If you don't understand that, then I invite you to a simple chase on the Autobahn.
    I drive inside my car and you drive yours while you sit or stand on the roof.
    I really would like to see how you manage...

    To make it equivalent, we'd also need to find a way to suspend your seat so you get zero feedback from the tyres, any changes in acceleration or (depending on your home gaming setup) any feedback from the steering wheel.

    First person view makes it very hard to sense the steering suddenly getting light as you go over a crest; information you'd have when really driving a car that you don't get in a game.

    Got a full sim setup that throws you around? Then yeah, first person view for life.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-3944-9431-0318
    PSN / NNID: Fodder185
  • Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    giphy.gif

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    BRB, paging Top Gear production team

  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Hawk one wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I don't play racing games for realism or immersion. I play to win races. And 3rd person provides a better perspective and a situational awareness advantage. So I use 3rd person for all racing games of any type, realistic or not.

    I also play racing games to win and 1st person is generally much, much better at helping me win. For one thing, in 3rd person, I always overcompensate when I start sliding, because 3rd person shows the exact car angle; whereas (practically all) 1st person car game views basically helps me by pointing at where I'll be going as soon as I stop turning. This makes it much easier for me to adjust the car accurately. It's sort of like how most platform games allows you to jump a little bit after running off the platform.

    And on pure racing games, I don't usually feel like I need situational awareness apart from knowing what's straight ahead of me. Cars on my sides will soon stop being on my sides and end up either in front of or behind me. And if they don't, then usually I can ignore them.

    This is true, the one time I used cockpit view was a drifting mode in a game. Because like you said you see the wheel and can make better adjustments. Plus there were no other cars and the speed was lower so the loss of peripheral vision was less of a big deal.

    However in most racing you shouldn't be sliding so this shouldn't be a normal thing in all racing games.
    LarryMcFly wrote: »
    It is easy to explain: First person = Realism.
    You know...the view you experience when you drive a car?
    If you don't understand that, then I invite you to a simple chase on the Autobahn.
    I drive inside my car and you drive yours while you sit or stand on the roof.
    I really would like to see how you manage...

    You ignored every other post explaining this. Try reading those first before you reply.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
  • TrueLinkTrueLink Registered User regular
    The title for this comic is perfect.

  • YoungFreyYoungFrey Registered User regular
    The last time I used 1st person for driving was while playing GTA 3. There is one mission (Rigged To Blow) where you have to drive a car with a bomb in it through across the city under a time limit. If your car gets damaged much it blows up. In the tunnels, being in first person makes this a lot easier to do at full speed, because you don't have to worry about cross traffic in tunnels. So in those tunnels I'd use 1st person.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 11
    jaball77 wrote: »
    I am a car guy who likes racing games and races cars in real life. I would argue that 3rd person perspective is actually more realistic in terms of the information you have about your car and how it's located in space relative to everything else. Viewing first person camera on a monitor you lose all your peripheral vision and have a very narrow view of the track. (YMMV if you're using one of those new fangled VR rigs...)

    Not to mention being able to see when the car is sliding or yawing is much easier from the 3rd person view. In real life you can feel these things happening but from the first person camera it's hard to tell until it's too late.

    Having done it, I can say pretty confidently: VR is potentially a lot of fun for a racing game rig--that being said, the VR is optional, the "rig" is not. Just playing with a VR headset and a gamepad--or god help you, a keyboard--is inferior to playing with a monitor and a good wheel.

    It's a lot of fun though, provided your wheel, etc., is good. That being said, if you think your peripheral vision is bad with a monitor--oh boy, wait till you get in VR. Try playing a PC game while wearing snorkel goggles and a visor cap, and that's basically it. That doesn't mean it's not fun, it is, but your peripheral vision goes down the toilet. "But what about head tracking?" Sure, get TrackIR, so you have it and you're not looking through long-ways through a shoebox taped to your face.

    Still a lot of fun though. I'll play in first person just because games like Forza have amazing sound direction and almost sound like different games in first and third person. But if I need to weave in between cars, or for that matter traffic cones, sure, third person by all means. It's not uncommon for people to set rules in multiplayer for precisely those reason.

    The comic smacks a bit of "People doing things different than I do them? Heresy!" though I'm sure it's in their usual awkward jest.

    Synthesis on
    Orca wrote: »
    Synthesis wrote:
    Isn't "Your sarcasm makes me wet," the highest compliment an Abh can pay a human?

    Only if said Abh is a member of the nobility.
  • LarryMcFlyLarryMcFly Registered User new member
    "You ignored every other post explaining this. Try reading those first before you reply."

    Oh boy...special snowflake alarm incoming.
    Yes, I read them all, still doesnt change the fact how I see and experience it.
    So maybe I am ignorant(?) but you earned the Medal of Arrogance.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Stop being a douche.

  • v2miccav2micca Registered User regular
    McFodder wrote: »
    LarryMcFly wrote: »
    It is easy to explain: First person = Realism.
    You know...the view you experience when you drive a car?
    If you don't understand that, then I invite you to a simple chase on the Autobahn.
    I drive inside my car and you drive yours while you sit or stand on the roof.
    I really would like to see how you manage...
    Got a full sim setup that throws you around? Then yeah, first person view for life.

    You don't need a full motion sim to make it worth it to play in first person. Lets face it, most people don't have 50 grand to sink into a racing simulator. (Yes, the rabbit hole does go that deep) I would argue that if you simply invest in an entry level wheel and pedal set (I'm thinking a Logitech g29 or thrustmaster 300 series) You would still get a better experience from most racing games in first person.

  • Narrow CenturyNarrow Century Registered User new member
    Funny thing, I know where they're walking. That's Screen Door, a pretty great southern cooking restaurant in southeast Portland, Oregon, within a mile of where I live. Being as they're based in Seattle, I have to wonder what made Mike decide to set an unrelated comic outside a Portland restaurant.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Playing Mad Max in first person was difficult, and often confusing, but was also fun as hell.

    JABALL77 articulates it, though. First Person seems like it should be the most "realistic", but it's not--unless you're driving a WWII tank and viewing through a small gun port. The lack of peripheral vision and absence of your other senses can be somewhat mitigated by third person view. First person view just exacerbates those handicaps.

    I didn't realize Mad Max had a first person mode. That sideways ram was hard enough to pull off to begin with.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I couldn't imagine playing mad max in first person, I wouldn't be able to see Chum gloriously working on the magnum opus while his tormenter screams to do it faster.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Hawk oneHawk one Registered User regular
    So I guess today I learned that I'm apparently the only person in the universe who thinks 1st person is the easy mode in most racing games..

    But signatures don't really work, do they?
  • McFodderMcFodder 'SploringRegistered User regular
    v2micca wrote: »
    McFodder wrote: »
    LarryMcFly wrote: »
    It is easy to explain: First person = Realism.
    You know...the view you experience when you drive a car?
    If you don't understand that, then I invite you to a simple chase on the Autobahn.
    I drive inside my car and you drive yours while you sit or stand on the roof.
    I really would like to see how you manage...
    Got a full sim setup that throws you around? Then yeah, first person view for life.

    You don't need a full motion sim to make it worth it to play in first person. Lets face it, most people don't have 50 grand to sink into a racing simulator. (Yes, the rabbit hole does go that deep) I would argue that if you simply invest in an entry level wheel and pedal set (I'm thinking a Logitech g29 or thrustmaster 300 series) You would still get a better experience from most racing games in first person.

    I had a fairly basic wheel (Logitech Driving Force GT I think?) for the PS3 and played a fair bit of Gran Turismo 5 and 6 with it. Sitting up close to the TV with that was a lot of fun, and you're right that I probably enjoyed the in-car view more, but I was always more competitive from the trailing view. I found it just gave me more information on how the car was behaving than I'd get from the inside view, which is info you get from the feel of the car in real life track driving.

    Not having a wheel for the PS4 is probably why I've barely touched GT Sport, because going back to a controller is hard.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-3944-9431-0318
    PSN / NNID: Fodder185
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