You're [History], Like A Beat Up Car

Fiendishrabbit

a. The US congress is also pretty hostile towards it. Various Indian boarding school Truth Commission acts have been stuck in Congress for at least 4 years by now.
b. Not surprised that you'd have fuckers at Harvard defending it. From it's inception Harvard college was heavily involved in said Indian boarding schools (like, one of the driving forces).

knitdan

I can imagine the whining now

“it wasn’t that bad”
“We civilized them”
“Why do they have to keep bringing this stuff up”
“Can’t they just move on”
“it was so long ago”

Tastyfish

knitdan wrote: »

I can imagine the whining now

“it wasn’t that bad”
“We civilized them”
“Why do they have to keep bringing this stuff up”
“Can’t they just move on”
“it was so long ago”

Though what they are really worried about is that this is setting up an acceptance of liability for damages. Probably makes it harder for other parties to argue otherwise in court when the US has said that it was at fault and that damages have occured because of it.

Shadowfire

Yes, so long ago.

AngelHedgie

Even millenia ago cats were cats, with archeologists finding evidence of biscuit making in ancient pottery:

Over 1,200 years ago there was a happy cat on Mount Zion. We can infer the cat's state of mind because archaeologists excavating the jumbled site right outside the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem have found the first-ever archaeological evidence suggesting a cat "making biscuits" – a behavior usually associated with it feeling secure and content.

The evidence of feline kneading are the imprints of a foreleg and toe beans, and deep penetration marks, not scratches, plausibly made by a cat extending its claws into a clay jug as it lay drying for firing.

Also, the use of "toe beans" in a scientific context delights me.

AngelHedgie

So, there was an actual, honest to God, there was actual violence Marxist margarine war in Minneapolis co-ops in the 70s:

That political emphasis came to a head in 1975 when a group of Marxist-Leninist activists calling themselves the Co-op Organization (C.O.) tried to assert control over the counter-cultural and somewhat anarchistic co-op movement. The organization was highly secretive (something later documented in this book by former member Alexandra Stein).

Cox describes the C.O.’s argument to co-op activists: ‘You’re just a bunch of hippies playing store, you really need to use these coops to reach out and build a revolutionary movement.’”

The C.O. wanted co-ops to serve cheaper and processed foods like margarine to the working class. The group had members in co-ops all around the Twin Cities, but only explicitly controlled a couple of them. Most of the co-ops were controlled by the more anarchistic natural foods sorts.

In May 1975, C.O. members wielding metal pipes physically took over the distribution center for the co-ops, called the People’s Warehouse. C.O. members tried to physically occupy several storefronts.

“My first assignment was to be part of taking over North Country Co-op,” former C.O. member Lynnette Wells remembers in an interview in a documentary by Ampers producer Maria Almli. “This was all very exciting to me at the time because I felt like I was in a real revolution and we were going to make a difference in the cities.”

At the Seward Co-0p, now doing more than $30 million of business each year, C.O. members beat up two workers and threw them out of the store. A truck owned by a Bryant-Central Co-op organizer who opposed the C.O. was firebombed.

Another attempt to seize the Mill City Co-op in the Phillips neighborhood of Minneapolis was remembered by Dan Nordley:

“The C.O. gathered 50 to 100 people to come march onto the co-op and take it over. The rest of us rallied and went there and formed this human barrier between the store and the C.O….All the people who were lining the co-op just started in on this rendition of ‘Row, Row, Row Your Boat,’ singing to the CO. It was quite funny.”

The hippies eventually won the co-op wars due to a court ruling that held that the C.O. did not legally own the People’s Warehouse. But Craig Cox said the conflict left its mark on the state’s co-op movement.

Richy

Ah yes, the far-left strategy of attacking the not-quite-as-far left instead of focusing its energies on making actual progress against actual political opponents. Can't go wrong with the classics.

GiantGeek2020

Ahh the riddle of steel.

Richy wrote: »

Ah yes, the far-left strategy of attacking the not-quite-as-far left instead of focusing its energies on making actual progress against actual political opponents. Can't go wrong with the classics.

To Quote Mike Duncan "The Revolution Devours it's Children. Once Again."

Cornucopiist

GiantGeek2020 wrote: »

Ahh the riddle of steel.

Richy wrote: »

Ah yes, the far-left strategy of attacking the not-quite-as-far left instead of focusing its energies on making actual progress against actual political opponents. Can't go wrong with the classics.

To Quote Mike Duncan "The Revolution Devours it's Children. Once Again."

"They go down better with the hydrogenated trans fats of the working people!"

AngelHedgie

Richy wrote: »

Ah yes, the far-left strategy of attacking the not-quite-as-far left instead of focusing its energies on making actual progress against actual political opponents. Can't go wrong with the classics.

Eh, I can actually sympathize with the Marxists here to a degree, oddly enough.

(pause to let the crowd recover from shock)

The reality is that often times, these co-ops attract a certain sort of "crunchy" type that gets focused on the whole "organic locally sourced" vibe, often with a side of woo (see also: "raw water".) Which - there's a point there, but it can also get to the point where affordability and helping people with the labor of cooking gets forgotten (again, see "raw water".)

Which was the point of the Marxists - the co-ops should be more focused on supplying the community with simple affordable foods aimed at helping with the labor of cooking, and in doing so build political power. Which is what provoked the conflict, and it very quickly spiraled out of control.

Incenjucar

It's certainly a good example of why people consider capitalism to be the system that supports self-determination.

Cornucopiist

AngelHedgie wrote: »

Richy wrote: »

Ah yes, the far-left strategy of attacking the not-quite-as-far left instead of focusing its energies on making actual progress against actual political opponents. Can't go wrong with the classics.

Eh, I can actually sympathize with the Marxists here to a degree, oddly enough.

(pause to let the crowd recover from shock)

The reality is that often times, these co-ops attract a certain sort of "crunchy" type that gets focused on the whole "organic locally sourced" vibe, often with a side of woo (see also: "raw water".) Which - there's a point there, but it can also get to the point where affordability and helping people with the labor of cooking gets forgotten (again, see "raw water".)

Which was the point of the Marxists - the co-ops should be more focused on supplying the community with simple affordable foods aimed at helping with the labor of cooking, and in doing so build political power. Which is what provoked the conflict, and it very quickly spiraled out of control.

So it wasn't really about who was in charge?

Come on now, son.

AngelHedgie

Cornucopiist wrote: »

AngelHedgie wrote: »

Richy wrote: »

Ah yes, the far-left strategy of attacking the not-quite-as-far left instead of focusing its energies on making actual progress against actual political opponents. Can't go wrong with the classics.

Eh, I can actually sympathize with the Marxists here to a degree, oddly enough.

(pause to let the crowd recover from shock)

The reality is that often times, these co-ops attract a certain sort of "crunchy" type that gets focused on the whole "organic locally sourced" vibe, often with a side of woo (see also: "raw water".) Which - there's a point there, but it can also get to the point where affordability and helping people with the labor of cooking gets forgotten (again, see "raw water".)

Which was the point of the Marxists - the co-ops should be more focused on supplying the community with simple affordable foods aimed at helping with the labor of cooking, and in doing so build political power. Which is what provoked the conflict, and it very quickly spiraled out of control.

So it wasn't really about who was in charge?

Come on now, son.

Yes, it's about who's in charge, because being in charge is how you implement your policy (see also: Hedgie's First Rule Of Politics (the goal of politics is to implement policy.))

Nine

GiantGeek2020 wrote: »

Ahh the riddle of steel.

Richy wrote: »

Ah yes, the far-left strategy of attacking the not-quite-as-far left instead of focusing its energies on making actual progress against actual political opponents. Can't go wrong with the classics.

To Quote Mike Duncan "The Revolution Devours it's Children. Once Again."

Speaking of Mike Duncan, he's podcasting again. A speculative fiction season of Revolutions about a Martian revolution. And another show with Alexis Coe where they discuss different historical topics.

Shadowhope

What I’ve been thinking about today:

After Hitler gained power as Chancellor, it was the passage of the Enabling Act in March 23, 1933 that effectively granted him absolute power. It allowed Hitler to make any law he felt like, without any checks or balances to slow him down. It passed the the Reichstag after a vote of 444-94. Only the SPD (Socialists) voted against it. 26 members of the SPD were absent, arrested or in hiding knowing how dangerous it would be to remain where they could be snatched up by the Nazis. The KPD (Communists) were entirely absent, all either arrested or in hiding. And I’ll note that the first of the concentration camps had already been established weeks earlier.

Otto Wels was the leader of the SPD. During the passage of the Act, Wels delivered a speech to the Reichstag, the end of which I’ve posted below:

We have created equal rights for all and socially oriented labor legislation. We have aided in creating a Germany in which the path to leadership is open not only to counts and barons, but also to men of the working class. You cannot retreat from that without exposing your own Führer. Any attempt to turn back the wheels of time will be in vain. We Social Democrats are aware that one cannot eliminate the realities of power politics by the simple act of legal protests. We see the reality of your present rule. But the people’s sense of justice also wields political power, and we will never stop appealing to this sense of justice.

The Weimar Constitution is not a Socialist Constitution. But we adhere to the basic principles of a constitutional state, to the equality of rights, and the concept of social legislation anchored therein. We German Social Democrats solemnly pledge ourselves in this historic hour to the principles of humanity and justice, of freedom and Socialism.

No Enabling Act can give you the power to destroy ideas which are eternal and indestructible. You yourself have professed your belief in Socialism. Bismarck’s Law against Socialists has not destroyed the Social Democratic Party. Even further persecution can be a source of new strength to the German Social Democratic Party. We hail those who are persecuted and in despair. We hail our friends in the Reich. Their steadfastness and loyalty are worthy of acclaim. The courage of their convictions, their unbroken faith - are the guarantees of a brighter future.

The laughter and jeering of the Nazis drowned out the cheering from the SPD benches.

Wels didn’t live to see that brighter future. He died in exile in Paris in September 1939. It was a long, hard road to that brighter future, through the largest and most horrific conflict the world has ever seen.

But that day did eventually come.

Eddy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McgnF0eubC4

You guys catch this video? Someone has a big problem with the logistics and true size of Cannae and the more I think about it the more believable I find their critiques

Rhesus Positive

I Cannae believe it