It's nice, but it's still ridiculous. Pushing it back to 8 and 8:30 is, like, how early were these kids going to school? FFS, research from what I remember suggests no earlier then like 9am. It's good they are doing it for the right reason though.
It's nice, but it's still ridiculous. Pushing it back to 8 and 8:30 is, like, how early were these kids going to school? FFS, research from what I remember suggests no earlier then like 9am. It's good they are doing it for the right reason though.
One of my schools starts at 7:09, so pushing back to 8 or 8:30 would a freaking godsend.
It's nice, but it's still ridiculous. Pushing it back to 8 and 8:30 is, like, how early were these kids going to school? FFS, research from what I remember suggests no earlier then like 9am. It's good they are doing it for the right reason though.
One of my schools starts at 7:09, so pushing back to 8 or 8:30 would a freaking godsend.
Holy hells, what's that mean, waking up at 5:30 or something?
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
5, but only because I do a quick workout in the morning. I'd have to get up at 5:30 otherwise, yeah. It's kind of the worst thing. My other schools start at 7:24, so days when I'm there first for whatever reason aren't a whole lot better. :-/
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I currently wake up at 5:45, get to school to open the library at 6:30 and close the library at 5. I really don't want to have to push that back because then I loose the tiny amount of after school free time I currently have.
I currently wake up at 5:45, get to school to open the library at 6:30 and close the library at 5. I really don't want to have to push that back because then I loose the tiny amount of after school free time I currently have.
That’s too long a span for one librarian
We could just fund our schools for cloning devices
Here it was always high school starts at 7:30, elementary at 8:30. Not sure for the dedicated middle schools, not that many of them. In high school I slept through my first class of the day most of the time if it wasn’t like PE or band where you had to be active. Not intentionally, just could not stay awake. Luckily they were mostly classes I was good at so some of teachers stopped waking me up eventually as I was still making A’s in the class.
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I currently wake up at 5:45, get to school to open the library at 6:30 and close the library at 5. I really don't want to have to push that back because then I loose the tiny amount of after school free time I currently have.
That’s too long a span for one librarian
We could just fund our schools for cloning devices
timspork’s clone
I'm getting two and a half hours of extra supervision pay every day above my standard work hours, but supervision pay is the lowest of the extra duty pays.
I'm kind of hung up on these weirdly specific, not round number starting times.
We had the same start time at my high school and it had to do with our district sharing the same buses with like 5 different schools. I did like getting out of school at 2:05 everyday. I could get almost a 8 hour shift at my job at Target.
My high school day started at 7:56 (bell, then four minutes to get your shit together and get to class) and ended at 3:05. But we also had a lot of farm kids with long commutes. I caught the school bus at 7 am, but the earliest pickups were at 6.
We could sleep on the bus, sure, but it was crappy sleep.
Then again, farm kids had to be up at 5 am regardless, and I don't know how you solve that. Cows don't care about human circadian rhythms.
The farm kids are the reason why schools start so crazy early. Get up, milk the cows, collect the eggs, and walk to the one-room village school for a 7am start. Then you have plenty of daylight left to do your homework and go to bed at 7pm to get up at 5am the next day.
The farm kids are the reason why schools start so crazy early. Get up, milk the cows, collect the eggs, and walk to the one-room village school for a 7am start. Then you have plenty of daylight left to do your homework and go to bed at 7pm to get up at 5am the next day.
also why we have summer breaks apparently.
Although this doesn't track well with when farm kids were needed at the farm in my experience.
I had 7:30am classes three days a week for all eight semesters of my undergraduate degree. In grad school, I had Fluid Dynamics at 7:30am three days a week for a semester.
Thankfully as an adult I have found a job where I can roll in at 10am.
I had 7:30am classes three days a week for all eight semesters of my undergraduate degree. In grad school, I had Fluid Dynamics at 7:30am three days a week for a semester.
Thankfully as an adult I have found a job where I can roll in at 10am.
It's probably a bit different as you start entering your 20s and such. Like, this change is specifically targeted an teenagers, as puberty and such makes your sleep rhythm all weird and later than normal.
I had 7:30am classes three days a week for all eight semesters of my undergraduate degree. In grad school, I had Fluid Dynamics at 7:30am three days a week for a semester.
Thankfully as an adult I have found a job where I can roll in at 10am.
It's probably a bit different as you start entering your 20s and such. Like, this change is specifically targeted an teenagers, as puberty and such makes your sleep rhythm all weird and later than normal.
I'm a natural night owl; my sleep cycle never shifted back.
Then again, I've literally never had the opportunity to find out what my circadian rhythm does when left to its own devices. I tend to sleep for 12 hours or more when I have nothing going on, but that could just be because I've been running a chronic sleep debt for 19 years.
The farm kids are the reason why schools start so crazy early. Get up, milk the cows, collect the eggs, and walk to the one-room village school for a 7am start. Then you have plenty of daylight left to do your homework and go to bed at 7pm to get up at 5am the next day.
also why we have summer breaks apparently.
Although this doesn't track well with when farm kids were needed at the farm in my experience.
That's a myth. If you were going to plan school around farm work, you'd have long breaks in the spring (planting) and fall (harvest) with education in the summer and winter. Summer break is because wealthy (and later middle class) families would leave the hot cities during the summers in the late 1800s combined with budget cuts to public education during the same period.
The farm kids are the reason why schools start so crazy early. Get up, milk the cows, collect the eggs, and walk to the one-room village school for a 7am start. Then you have plenty of daylight left to do your homework and go to bed at 7pm to get up at 5am the next day.
also why we have summer breaks apparently.
Although this doesn't track well with when farm kids were needed at the farm in my experience.
That's a myth. If you were going to plan school around farm work, you'd have long breaks in the spring (planting) and fall (harvest) with education in the summer and winter. Summer break is because wealthy (and later middle class) families would leave the hot cities during the summers in the late 1800s combined with budget cuts to public education during the same period.
You harvest cotton and tobacco in the heat of the summer in the South. That was a big motivator in that region.
I grew up in a country with free college education (I.e no tuition). The degree creep some people have claimed as a guaranteed outcome haven’t happened yet.
@Ursus drawing us out of the primary thread for this tangent:
What systems, if any, are in place to block access via testing? My experience in Ireland was that college was "free" but gated by performance in exit exams, and a poor showing relegated you to manual tasks basically forever or until you coughed up enough cash to go to college on your own.
Of course because they did little to address racism or generational poverty, the outcomes were not great.
Also, degree inflation is already happening here. Great example, my youngest son just 20 minutes ago abandoned applying for a job answering a phone in a call center because they require a college degree as an entry level "hold please" operator. This is very common already across the nation, and there's no reason it won't continue and accelerate as the degrees themselves become more common.
I grew up in a country with free college education (I.e no tuition). The degree creep some people have claimed as a guaranteed outcome haven’t happened yet.
Ursus drawing us out of the primary thread for this tangent:
What systems, if any, are in place to block access via testing? My experience in Ireland was that college was "free" but gated by performance in exit exams, and a poor showing relegated you to manual tasks basically forever or until you coughed up enough cash to go to college on your own.
Of course because they did little to address racism or generational poverty, the outcomes were not great.
Also, degree inflation is already happening here. Great example, my youngest son just 20 minutes ago abandoned applying for a job answering a phone in a call center because they require a college degree as an entry level "hold please" operator. This is very common already across the nation, and there's no reason it won't continue and accelerate as the degrees themselves become more common.
This problem will only be solved by regulating business and forcing them to explain why a specific degree level is required outside of classism and laziness.
I grew up in a country with free college education (I.e no tuition). The degree creep some people have claimed as a guaranteed outcome haven’t happened yet.
@Ursus drawing us out of the primary thread for this tangent:
What systems, if any, are in place to block access via testing? My experience in Ireland was that college was "free" but gated by performance in exit exams, and a poor showing relegated you to manual tasks basically forever or until you coughed up enough cash to go to college on your own.
Of course because they did little to address racism or generational poverty, the outcomes were not great.
Also, degree inflation is already happening here. Great example, my youngest son just 20 minutes ago abandoned applying for a job answering a phone in a call center because they require a college degree as an entry level "hold please" operator. This is very common already across the nation, and there's no reason it won't continue and accelerate as the degrees themselves become more common.
Denmark offers free education and as far as I know doesn't have higher than normal degree rates per capita.
As I said in the primary thread, this idea that there will be a massive explosion of people with degrees and jobs demanding them is entirely dependent on the assumption that there is, right now, a massive amount of people who are undereducated because of their financial means. And the larger you think the problem would be, the larger you must be assuming that other problem is right now.
College being free is all fine and dandy, but for people who have to work 50+ hours or multiple jobs to pay the bills, free college doesn't mean anything. I could get some free classes through my employer but working 40+ hours a week and taking a bunch of call to pay for things means that it would take me 10 years to get an associates one class at a time.
Edit: This is WRT the influx of sudden degree holders or income correction for people who can't currently afford school. Future generations who are young enough to have parental support or minimal financial obligations will definitely generate a more educated workforce. Even if that education is in fields not applicable to the job field they eventually enter. There are always degree programs that don't have a value to the job market but still improve society.
I grew up in a country with free college education (I.e no tuition). The degree creep some people have claimed as a guaranteed outcome haven’t happened yet.
@Ursus drawing us out of the primary thread for this tangent:
What systems, if any, are in place to block access via testing? My experience in Ireland was that college was "free" but gated by performance in exit exams, and a poor showing relegated you to manual tasks basically forever or until you coughed up enough cash to go to college on your own.
Of course because they did little to address racism or generational poverty, the outcomes were not great.
Also, degree inflation is already happening here. Great example, my youngest son just 20 minutes ago abandoned applying for a job answering a phone in a call center because they require a college degree as an entry level "hold please" operator. This is very common already across the nation, and there's no reason it won't continue and accelerate as the degrees themselves become more common.
Honestly I don't know about how access is controlled. I am (was) what can be best described as "academically gifted", so I basically coasted into one of the top three most highly regarded colleges in the nation without ever worrying about getting in. I know the application includes both GPA and college entrance exam results as a way to show your academic ability, which is how (most) US colleges operate as well.
Now the University I went to gated access by firstly having high GPA and test standards for entry, which I assume is similar to how elite and/or very popular colleges in the US works as well (at least for kids whose parents can't buy their way in). The second gate came by having an absolutely brutal first semester which weeded out a lot of people who didn't have the determination to see things through. There was a very noticeable drop rate in the first two months. I can't say if this weeding tactic is a national thing or something specific to the (considered) prestigious university I attended.
Now what I do know is that no one was ever relegated to manual tasks forever, like how you describe Ireland, unless they were simply not academically inclined (this would apply to most of my mom's side of the family). You are free to retake the exam as many times as you want with only your highest score counting, and there are adult classes offered for people who wanted to improve their high school GPA. I know of a quite a few people who were poor students in their teens, then grew up and went back and got some quite fancy degrees in their 30's by first boosting their GPA to get into college.
Again, the degree inflation you are talking about is not happening in my home country despite free college. "I have to have a degree to get a job" was not a conversation we had in high school, it was simply never a thing. You had to have a degree to get a really good job of course, but not a decent job or a decent career. Degree inflation in the US have a lot more to it than just college access (a quick, easy, and measurable way for HR to narrow down applicants is a big one), and while I agree that it will likely continue (Quid gave a good reason in the other thread), there isn't really anything that says it will accelerate it as you have repeatedly stated.
I think it's possible that it's industry specific as well. Healthcare has seen a ton of degree bloat. Fully capable excellent ASN nurses being told to get BSNs or get terminated. Previous certificate programs becoming associate degree required programs. Trades that used to be legitimate apprenticeship jobs with class time becoming bachelor's degree requirements.
No one wants to hire someone without experience or a special internship but no one offers internships.
None of this increases wages. My job went from on the job to advanced certificate required to associate degree required in one working generation. The pay is still below $15 an hour most places and sometimes even lower. No one should spend 25k, 2 years and a bunch of time in clinicals to get a job paying $13.70/hr
I'm not saying that healthcare isn't a good industry to work in. Some jobs just pay way way better than others with less education.
Degree inflation must also be related to unemployment rates, I would think. You can only filter for higher degrees if you are still getting enough applicants. If you can't fill positions you have to drop your standards eventually.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
Degree inflation must also be related to unemployment rates, I would think. You can only filter for higher degrees if you are still getting enough applicants. If you can't fill positions you have to drop your standards eventually.
Current market proves that wrong. You can just not hire people in a market where you're making money, and still require a bachelor's degree to answer the phone.
Degree inflation must also be related to unemployment rates, I would think. You can only filter for higher degrees if you are still getting enough applicants. If you can't fill positions you have to drop your standards eventually.
Current market proves that wrong. You can just not hire people in a market where you're making money, and still require a bachelor's degree to answer the phone.
Only to a certain extent. The IT/Software world is full of stupidity when it comes to education related areas. The legendary "Java programming experience of 10 years min" when it had only been out a few months comes to mind. But that's only part of the overall problem. How does one effectively test work related knowledge and experience? Software development encompasses so many methodologies, languages, versions, and nearly innumerable variations in combination that saying "We're a java shop" is meaningless. Same with "Do you know <Language>", even when it's contextualized doesn't lead one to be able to assess compatibility sufficiently. So knowing where to apply becomes just as much a guessing game as playing buzzword bingo.
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
As I said in the primary thread, this idea that there will be a massive explosion of people with degrees and jobs demanding them is entirely dependent on the assumption that there is, right now, a massive amount of people who are undereducated because of their financial means. And the larger you think the problem would be, the larger you must be assuming that other problem is right now.
Not so - you could think that 4 (8? 12? Forever?) years of free room and board would be an attractive prospect for many.
Heaven forfend the richest country in the world provide room and board to people working on their college degree. What next? Free lunch in high school?
Heaven forfend the richest country in the world provide room and board to people working on their college degree. What next? Free lunch in high school?
idk, they seem about the same. Lunch for 4 years, meals and housing forever, the math checks out.
I'm being a bit sarcastic here but nobody has yet committed to there being a point at which we stop paying for more education, and I understand why - doing so requires there be an Enough, which opens the argument about whether that line should be Highschool.
Heaven forfend the richest country in the world provide room and board to people working on their college degree. What next? Free lunch in high school?
idk, they seem about the same. Lunch for 4 years, meals and housing forever, the math checks out.
That's nonsense and you know it. Do it like the GI Bill. Cover college tuition, provide a stipend for food and housing, require a minimal requirement for attendance and grades or they're on the hook for whatever semester they fail. If it's good enough for the military, and goodness knows we're all about scamming the system, it should be good enough for everyone else.
As I said in the primary thread, this idea that there will be a massive explosion of people with degrees and jobs demanding them is entirely dependent on the assumption that there is, right now, a massive amount of people who are undereducated because of their financial means. And the larger you think the problem would be, the larger you must be assuming that other problem is right now.
Not so - you could think that 4 (8? 12? Forever?) years of free room and board would be an attractive prospect for many.
That there are, right now, many countries where everyone has the right to higher education (such as my own). There has not been an explosion in employers demanding degrees for menial jobs, nor are there people staying students forever for the benefits.
But, clearly, something similar is 100% impossible in the US.
American exceptionalism is that things that are possible in other, less rich, countries is impossible in the US.
As I said in the primary thread, this idea that there will be a massive explosion of people with degrees and jobs demanding them is entirely dependent on the assumption that there is, right now, a massive amount of people who are undereducated because of their financial means. And the larger you think the problem would be, the larger you must be assuming that other problem is right now.
Not so - you could think that 4 (8? 12? Forever?) years of free room and board would be an attractive prospect for many.
That there are, right now, many countries where everyone has the right to higher education (such as my own). There has not been an explosion in employers demanding degrees for menial jobs, nor are there people staying students forever for the benefits.
But, clearly, something similar is 100% impossible in the US.
American exceptionalism is that things that are possible in other, less rich, countries is impossible in the US.
Again
1) it already happens here, I don't have to prove that a trend will continue .
2) other countries gate off or deny college for portions of the population. How does your country manage that?
Heaven forfend the richest country in the world provide room and board to people working on their college degree. What next? Free lunch in high school?
idk, they seem about the same. Lunch for 4 years, meals and housing forever, the math checks out.
That's nonsense and you know it. Do it like the GI Bill. Cover college tuition, provide a stipend for food and housing, require a minimal requirement for attendance and grades or they're on the hook for whatever semester they fail. If it's good enough for the military, and goodness knows we're all about scamming the system, it should be good enough for everyone else.
The military won't let you stay in school indefinitely and to be fair there are other requirements that naturally limit opportunity. The core might work, with restrictions. What restrictions should we place?
Heaven forfend the richest country in the world provide room and board to people working on their college degree. What next? Free lunch in high school?
idk, they seem about the same. Lunch for 4 years, meals and housing forever, the math checks out.
That's nonsense and you know it. Do it like the GI Bill. Cover college tuition, provide a stipend for food and housing, require a minimal requirement for attendance and grades or they're on the hook for whatever semester they fail. If it's good enough for the military, and goodness knows we're all about scamming the system, it should be good enough for everyone else.
The military won't let you stay in school indefinitely and to be fair there are other requirements that naturally limit opportunity. The core might work, with restrictions. What restrictions should we place?
The military will 100% pay for me to go to school up to a doctorate. The only time they don't pay is if I fail classes. Which is about all the limit I'd consider necessary.
Heaven forfend the richest country in the world provide room and board to people working on their college degree. What next? Free lunch in high school?
idk, they seem about the same. Lunch for 4 years, meals and housing forever, the math checks out.
That's nonsense and you know it. Do it like the GI Bill. Cover college tuition, provide a stipend for food and housing, require a minimal requirement for attendance and grades or they're on the hook for whatever semester they fail. If it's good enough for the military, and goodness knows we're all about scamming the system, it should be good enough for everyone else.
The military won't let you stay in school indefinitely and to be fair there are other requirements that naturally limit opportunity. The core might work, with restrictions. What restrictions should we place?
The military will 100% pay for me to go to school up to a doctorate. The only time they don't pay is if I fail classes. Which is about all the limit I'd consider necessary.
Military also limits by expecting you to serve. The plans have no similar commitment. And they I assume won't let you get three BAs. Are we going to draw the line at one free degree?
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It's nice, but it's still ridiculous. Pushing it back to 8 and 8:30 is, like, how early were these kids going to school? FFS, research from what I remember suggests no earlier then like 9am. It's good they are doing it for the right reason though.
One of my schools starts at 7:09, so pushing back to 8 or 8:30 would a freaking godsend.
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Holy hells, what's that mean, waking up at 5:30 or something?
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Edit: and yes, we all basically slept through first period.
That’s too long a span for one librarian
We could just fund our schools for cloning devices
timspork’s clone
I'm getting two and a half hours of extra supervision pay every day above my standard work hours, but supervision pay is the lowest of the extra duty pays.
We had the same start time at my high school and it had to do with our district sharing the same buses with like 5 different schools. I did like getting out of school at 2:05 everyday. I could get almost a 8 hour shift at my job at Target.
We could sleep on the bus, sure, but it was crappy sleep.
Then again, farm kids had to be up at 5 am regardless, and I don't know how you solve that. Cows don't care about human circadian rhythms.
also why we have summer breaks apparently.
Although this doesn't track well with when farm kids were needed at the farm in my experience.
Thankfully as an adult I have found a job where I can roll in at 10am.
It's probably a bit different as you start entering your 20s and such. Like, this change is specifically targeted an teenagers, as puberty and such makes your sleep rhythm all weird and later than normal.
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I'm a natural night owl; my sleep cycle never shifted back.
Then again, I've literally never had the opportunity to find out what my circadian rhythm does when left to its own devices. I tend to sleep for 12 hours or more when I have nothing going on, but that could just be because I've been running a chronic sleep debt for 19 years.
That's a myth. If you were going to plan school around farm work, you'd have long breaks in the spring (planting) and fall (harvest) with education in the summer and winter. Summer break is because wealthy (and later middle class) families would leave the hot cities during the summers in the late 1800s combined with budget cuts to public education during the same period.
You harvest cotton and tobacco in the heat of the summer in the South. That was a big motivator in that region.
@Ursus drawing us out of the primary thread for this tangent:
What systems, if any, are in place to block access via testing? My experience in Ireland was that college was "free" but gated by performance in exit exams, and a poor showing relegated you to manual tasks basically forever or until you coughed up enough cash to go to college on your own.
Of course because they did little to address racism or generational poverty, the outcomes were not great.
Also, degree inflation is already happening here. Great example, my youngest son just 20 minutes ago abandoned applying for a job answering a phone in a call center because they require a college degree as an entry level "hold please" operator. This is very common already across the nation, and there's no reason it won't continue and accelerate as the degrees themselves become more common.
This problem will only be solved by regulating business and forcing them to explain why a specific degree level is required outside of classism and laziness.
Denmark offers free education and as far as I know doesn't have higher than normal degree rates per capita.
Edit: This is WRT the influx of sudden degree holders or income correction for people who can't currently afford school. Future generations who are young enough to have parental support or minimal financial obligations will definitely generate a more educated workforce. Even if that education is in fields not applicable to the job field they eventually enter. There are always degree programs that don't have a value to the job market but still improve society.
@spool32
Honestly I don't know about how access is controlled. I am (was) what can be best described as "academically gifted", so I basically coasted into one of the top three most highly regarded colleges in the nation without ever worrying about getting in. I know the application includes both GPA and college entrance exam results as a way to show your academic ability, which is how (most) US colleges operate as well.
Now the University I went to gated access by firstly having high GPA and test standards for entry, which I assume is similar to how elite and/or very popular colleges in the US works as well (at least for kids whose parents can't buy their way in). The second gate came by having an absolutely brutal first semester which weeded out a lot of people who didn't have the determination to see things through. There was a very noticeable drop rate in the first two months. I can't say if this weeding tactic is a national thing or something specific to the (considered) prestigious university I attended.
Now what I do know is that no one was ever relegated to manual tasks forever, like how you describe Ireland, unless they were simply not academically inclined (this would apply to most of my mom's side of the family). You are free to retake the exam as many times as you want with only your highest score counting, and there are adult classes offered for people who wanted to improve their high school GPA. I know of a quite a few people who were poor students in their teens, then grew up and went back and got some quite fancy degrees in their 30's by first boosting their GPA to get into college.
Again, the degree inflation you are talking about is not happening in my home country despite free college. "I have to have a degree to get a job" was not a conversation we had in high school, it was simply never a thing. You had to have a degree to get a really good job of course, but not a decent job or a decent career. Degree inflation in the US have a lot more to it than just college access (a quick, easy, and measurable way for HR to narrow down applicants is a big one), and while I agree that it will likely continue (Quid gave a good reason in the other thread), there isn't really anything that says it will accelerate it as you have repeatedly stated.
No one wants to hire someone without experience or a special internship but no one offers internships.
None of this increases wages. My job went from on the job to advanced certificate required to associate degree required in one working generation. The pay is still below $15 an hour most places and sometimes even lower. No one should spend 25k, 2 years and a bunch of time in clinicals to get a job paying $13.70/hr
I'm not saying that healthcare isn't a good industry to work in. Some jobs just pay way way better than others with less education.
Current market proves that wrong. You can just not hire people in a market where you're making money, and still require a bachelor's degree to answer the phone.
Only to a certain extent. The IT/Software world is full of stupidity when it comes to education related areas. The legendary "Java programming experience of 10 years min" when it had only been out a few months comes to mind. But that's only part of the overall problem. How does one effectively test work related knowledge and experience? Software development encompasses so many methodologies, languages, versions, and nearly innumerable variations in combination that saying "We're a java shop" is meaningless. Same with "Do you know <Language>", even when it's contextualized doesn't lead one to be able to assess compatibility sufficiently. So knowing where to apply becomes just as much a guessing game as playing buzzword bingo.
Not so - you could think that 4 (8? 12? Forever?) years of free room and board would be an attractive prospect for many.
idk, they seem about the same. Lunch for 4 years, meals and housing forever, the math checks out.
That's nonsense and you know it. Do it like the GI Bill. Cover college tuition, provide a stipend for food and housing, require a minimal requirement for attendance and grades or they're on the hook for whatever semester they fail. If it's good enough for the military, and goodness knows we're all about scamming the system, it should be good enough for everyone else.
That there are, right now, many countries where everyone has the right to higher education (such as my own). There has not been an explosion in employers demanding degrees for menial jobs, nor are there people staying students forever for the benefits.
But, clearly, something similar is 100% impossible in the US.
American exceptionalism is that things that are possible in other, less rich, countries is impossible in the US.
Again
1) it already happens here, I don't have to prove that a trend will continue .
2) other countries gate off or deny college for portions of the population. How does your country manage that?
The military won't let you stay in school indefinitely and to be fair there are other requirements that naturally limit opportunity. The core might work, with restrictions. What restrictions should we place?
The military will 100% pay for me to go to school up to a doctorate. The only time they don't pay is if I fail classes. Which is about all the limit I'd consider necessary.