who cares about all this gameplay nonsense they gotta show a CHARACTER CREATOR preview
the real gameplay
....is there one?
Female Phyre looks pretty similar in all the trailers so far....
That doesn't really mean anything one way or the other. Lots of games with character creators(especially with an already named character specific character) pick a single appearance for use across all marketing.
Not saying it has a character creator. But Shepard from mass effect has a specific design right on the box and they still have a character creator.
+5
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Yea I still think of crpg as computer RPG but that just means games in that particular style.
Isometric/top down RPGs like baldurs gate/fallout.
It being "computer" doesn't really matter. It just means a style of game. Just like JRPG.
Genres exist to make communication easier but people(not this conversation) get so weird about rules they lose all sight of the point.
I find this interesting because a lot of the older CRPGs were first person, not isometric. Wizardry, Might & Magic, and the older D&D adaptations used first person dungeon crawling (and obviously Elder Scrolls did but it was a late comer to that party). Ultima was the odd one out of the old big names but also arguably the most influential on other games.
Ultima had 1st person views in the dungeons for some of the games. I definitely remember it was in Ultima 4 and 5.
Yea I still think of crpg as computer RPG but that just means games in that particular style.
Isometric/top down RPGs like baldurs gate/fallout.
It being "computer" doesn't really matter. It just means a style of game. Just like JRPG.
Genres exist to make communication easier but people(not this conversation) get so weird about rules they lose all sight of the point.
I find this interesting because a lot of the older CRPGs were first person, not isometric. Wizardry, Might & Magic, and the older D&D adaptations used first person dungeon crawling (and obviously Elder Scrolls did but it was a late comer to that party). Ultima was the odd one out of the old big names but also arguably the most influential on other games.
Ultima had 1st person views in the dungeons for some of the games. I definitely remember it was in Ultima 4 and 5.
Ultima Underworld 1 & 2 were first person. The other Ultima games (main series 1 - 9, plus akalabeth before it and ultima online... also the spinoffs) were all top down or isometric.
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Interestingly on the CRPG thing while playing BG3 the streamer Day9 was talking about what is meant by CRPG and he also used the baldurs gate/fallout isometric style RPG as the definition.
So it seems like that is one of the accepted definitions. And honestly... probably the most useful one as it would still be applicable and meaningful today.
+2
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
seeing a lot of disinfo in this thread
crpg stands for cool rpg, ie an rpg i like
if i dont like it its not a crpg
+9
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
That is specifically an in universe derogatory term used for them to be fair. It's just also what older editions used to officially refer to them as despite that? It's why they swapped to Banu Haqim in V5... since that's what the clan is supposed to be called.
I know all that. I only played the old racist editions, so it takes me a moment to translate what the new names mean. Nobody called them "Banu Haqim" in those days. Maybe there was a reference in the clan splatbook, but it isnt how I was indoctrinated playing the RPG or card game.
Not saying they shouldn't change, just, you know, surprised. Get off my lawn, whippersnappers!
Some of the Revised edition splatbooks made reference to "Assam" being a mistranslation by Westerners of "Haqim" but even then I don't think they officially called themselves Banu Haqim there. But one of the running themes around the time of that book's publication was that the clan was undergoing fundamental shifts with the reemergence of a 4th generation elder purging the clan while members fleeing from Alamut to other factions included scholars and historians that had been hidden in the shadows before so the clan as a whole was integrating more into vampire societies and revamping their image so it makes sense for stuff like name changes to occur.
It's kind of hilarious having the Tremere and Haqim as two playable clans since they utterly DESPISE each other.
I mean, everybody hates Ventrue and they still remain a common clan to play
Now I did finally have fun playing one in Coteries of New York. The feeding requirements were interesting and kinda explained why they are snooty ass vampires.
Nah Ventrue are the fucking best and they know it.
Granted that is more a Requiem perspective where they are less "snooty foodies and rich folk enabling ancient power structures" and more egotistical powerbrokers made out of elemental resolve.
Ventrue was always more interesting to me than Toreador or Brujah, but I get why they resonate as boring and status quo for folks since in Masquerade they often just run the most straight and narrow.
Ventrue is very stereotypical modern vampire which definitely appeals to a lot of people into vampires as a whole but not necessarily deep into VtM. I've long held a strength of the setting was how many clans easily matched different archetypes of vampires through myth and media which can help new players get their footing.
Yea I still think of crpg as computer RPG but that just means games in that particular style.
Isometric/top down RPGs like baldurs gate/fallout.
It being "computer" doesn't really matter. It just means a style of game. Just like JRPG.
Genres exist to make communication easier but people(not this conversation) get so weird about rules they lose all sight of the point.
I find this interesting because a lot of the older CRPGs were first person, not isometric. Wizardry, Might & Magic, and the older D&D adaptations used first person dungeon crawling (and obviously Elder Scrolls did but it was a late comer to that party). Ultima was the odd one out of the old big names but also arguably the most influential on other games.
Ultima had 1st person views in the dungeons for some of the games. I definitely remember it was in Ultima 4 and 5.
Ultima Underworld 1 & 2 were first person. The other Ultima games (main series 1 - 9, plus akalabeth before it and ultima online... also the spinoffs) were all top down or isometric.
Dunno about Ultima but Akalabeth seems to fit the bill.
Edit: actually seems the dungeons in Ultima 1 at least were first person?
rahkeesh2000 on
+2
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
That is specifically an in universe derogatory term used for them to be fair. It's just also what older editions used to officially refer to them as despite that? It's why they swapped to Banu Haqim in V5... since that's what the clan is supposed to be called.
I know all that. I only played the old racist editions, so it takes me a moment to translate what the new names mean. Nobody called them "Banu Haqim" in those days. Maybe there was a reference in the clan splatbook, but it isnt how I was indoctrinated playing the RPG or card game.
Not saying they shouldn't change, just, you know, surprised. Get off my lawn, whippersnappers!
Some of the Revised edition splatbooks made reference to "Assam" being a mistranslation by Westerners of "Haqim" but even then I don't think they officially called themselves Banu Haqim there. But one of the running themes around the time of that book's publication was that the clan was undergoing fundamental shifts with the reemergence of a 4th generation elder purging the clan while members fleeing from Alamut to other factions included scholars and historians that had been hidden in the shadows before so the clan as a whole was integrating more into vampire societies and revamping their image so it makes sense for stuff like name changes to occur.
It's kind of hilarious having the Tremere and Haqim as two playable clans since they utterly DESPISE each other.
I mean, everybody hates Ventrue and they still remain a common clan to play
Now I did finally have fun playing one in Coteries of New York. The feeding requirements were interesting and kinda explained why they are snooty ass vampires.
Nah Ventrue are the fucking best and they know it.
Granted that is more a Requiem perspective where they are less "snooty foodies and rich folk enabling ancient power structures" and more egotistical powerbrokers made out of elemental resolve.
Ventrue was always more interesting to me than Toreador or Brujah, but I get why they resonate as boring and status quo for folks since in Masquerade they often just run the most straight and narrow.
Ventrue is very stereotypical modern vampire which definitely appeals to a lot of people into vampires as a whole but not necessarily deep into VtM. I've long held a strength of the setting was how many clans easily matched different archetypes of vampires through myth and media which can help new players get their footing.
On the other hand, I reread Dracula recently, and it's pretty funny how there's a lot of "and on page x is where they got X Tzimisce power, and on page y is where they got Y Tzimisce power"
+2
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
That is specifically an in universe derogatory term used for them to be fair. It's just also what older editions used to officially refer to them as despite that? It's why they swapped to Banu Haqim in V5... since that's what the clan is supposed to be called.
I know all that. I only played the old racist editions, so it takes me a moment to translate what the new names mean. Nobody called them "Banu Haqim" in those days. Maybe there was a reference in the clan splatbook, but it isnt how I was indoctrinated playing the RPG or card game.
Not saying they shouldn't change, just, you know, surprised. Get off my lawn, whippersnappers!
Some of the Revised edition splatbooks made reference to "Assam" being a mistranslation by Westerners of "Haqim" but even then I don't think they officially called themselves Banu Haqim there. But one of the running themes around the time of that book's publication was that the clan was undergoing fundamental shifts with the reemergence of a 4th generation elder purging the clan while members fleeing from Alamut to other factions included scholars and historians that had been hidden in the shadows before so the clan as a whole was integrating more into vampire societies and revamping their image so it makes sense for stuff like name changes to occur.
It's kind of hilarious having the Tremere and Haqim as two playable clans since they utterly DESPISE each other.
I mean, everybody hates Ventrue and they still remain a common clan to play
Now I did finally have fun playing one in Coteries of New York. The feeding requirements were interesting and kinda explained why they are snooty ass vampires.
Nah Ventrue are the fucking best and they know it.
Granted that is more a Requiem perspective where they are less "snooty foodies and rich folk enabling ancient power structures" and more egotistical powerbrokers made out of elemental resolve.
Ventrue was always more interesting to me than Toreador or Brujah, but I get why they resonate as boring and status quo for folks since in Masquerade they often just run the most straight and narrow.
Ventrue is very stereotypical modern vampire which definitely appeals to a lot of people into vampires as a whole but not necessarily deep into VtM. I've long held a strength of the setting was how many clans easily matched different archetypes of vampires through myth and media which can help new players get their footing.
On the other hand, I reread Dracula recently, and it's pretty funny how there's a lot of "and on page x is where they got X Tzimisce power, and on page y is where they got Y Tzimisce power"
i would probs make blood buff give a mini version of celerity - like a 30% slowdown or something - and make celerity very short but insanely intense
it always felt a bit silly that celerity was such a step change from the other vampires because it meant in principle theres no way to win a fight if the other guy has celerity because he just teleports onto u and stakes u in the crotch before u can say mindbullets, its the old flash problem
Yea I still think of crpg as computer RPG but that just means games in that particular style.
Isometric/top down RPGs like baldurs gate/fallout.
It being "computer" doesn't really matter. It just means a style of game. Just like JRPG.
Genres exist to make communication easier but people(not this conversation) get so weird about rules they lose all sight of the point.
I find this interesting because a lot of the older CRPGs were first person, not isometric. Wizardry, Might & Magic, and the older D&D adaptations used first person dungeon crawling (and obviously Elder Scrolls did but it was a late comer to that party). Ultima was the odd one out of the old big names but also arguably the most influential on other games.
Ultima had 1st person views in the dungeons for some of the games. I definitely remember it was in Ultima 4 and 5.
Ultima Underworld 1 & 2 were first person. The other Ultima games (main series 1 - 9, plus akalabeth before it and ultima online... also the spinoffs) were all top down or isometric.
The dungeons were often in 1st person, like this screenshot from Ultima 5:
Aside from the Banu Haquim, those are some real boring choices
They're basically the choices that require the least amount of work or variety in playstyle. Perfect for 3-4 brief dialogue options.
Someone else said it but, these four choices pretty much cover your RPG archetypes: muscle, stealth, magic, and face. So that's actually a broad range of playstyle choices to dealing with situations. Its just the roleplaying part that is going to lean heavily vanilla, because yeah Malkavian dialogue or dealing with masquerade as a Nosferatu would take more effort. (And so they probably sell it to you as DLC...)
+4
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited December 2023
I'm really surprised Toreador weren't in over the Haqim.
I guess Venture kind of covers the same bases, but still...
I have to say, the last page of this conversation was kind of perplexing but interesting for someone who wandered in thinking it was the [Vampire Survivors, etc.] thread next door.
You can make interesting stories with Brujah and Ventrue but yeah the Archetypes theory makes sense as gameplay vector. Nosferatu and Malk also run afoul of depiction concerns and "my power fantasy isn't Ugly/Mental Health."
I still worry about lack of character creator / customization but who knows.
If they get even close to some of their influences cited, that will be impressive. Granted, I don't think Elden Ring generally falls under Action Brawler given the pace of things. Still, all of the games cited besides Elder Scrolls give really good combat feedback which makes a big difference.
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
The investigative gameplay seems fun, not sure how much agency the player's going to have in those 'choices' though, it feels pretty linear, like the same thing would happen regardless.
My incredibly short glance is that I still hate the "voice in your head" concept a bunch.
Don't love my protagonist yapping all of the time in the sequel to a game where you get to be your own vampire, but I can adjust. I hope I can adjust to the stupid thinblood in my head, but it seems like a bad idea and I don't want that dude talking to me while I'm hanging out in vampire night clubs.
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That doesn't really mean anything one way or the other. Lots of games with character creators(especially with an already named character specific character) pick a single appearance for use across all marketing.
Not saying it has a character creator. But Shepard from mass effect has a specific design right on the box and they still have a character creator.
nice try motherfucker u might have been a stop sign last time but im not listening to the voices again
Ultima had 1st person views in the dungeons for some of the games. I definitely remember it was in Ultima 4 and 5.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
So it seems like that is one of the accepted definitions. And honestly... probably the most useful one as it would still be applicable and meaningful today.
crpg stands for cool rpg, ie an rpg i like
if i dont like it its not a crpg
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Some of the Revised edition splatbooks made reference to "Assam" being a mistranslation by Westerners of "Haqim" but even then I don't think they officially called themselves Banu Haqim there. But one of the running themes around the time of that book's publication was that the clan was undergoing fundamental shifts with the reemergence of a 4th generation elder purging the clan while members fleeing from Alamut to other factions included scholars and historians that had been hidden in the shadows before so the clan as a whole was integrating more into vampire societies and revamping their image so it makes sense for stuff like name changes to occur.
Ventrue is very stereotypical modern vampire which definitely appeals to a lot of people into vampires as a whole but not necessarily deep into VtM. I've long held a strength of the setting was how many clans easily matched different archetypes of vampires through myth and media which can help new players get their footing.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Dunno about Ultima but Akalabeth seems to fit the bill.
Edit: actually seems the dungeons in Ultima 1 at least were first person?
On the other hand, I reread Dracula recently, and it's pretty funny how there's a lot of "and on page x is where they got X Tzimisce power, and on page y is where they got Y Tzimisce power"
i would probs make blood buff give a mini version of celerity - like a 30% slowdown or something - and make celerity very short but insanely intense
it always felt a bit silly that celerity was such a step change from the other vampires because it meant in principle theres no way to win a fight if the other guy has celerity because he just teleports onto u and stakes u in the crotch before u can say mindbullets, its the old flash problem
The dungeons were often in 1st person, like this screenshot from Ultima 5:
If they make em interesting like Cotieries I may try sometime but they and brujah come off as two sides of the vanilla coin.
To be clear, for me, it's always Tremere first when they are a choice.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
They're basically the choices that require the least amount of work or variety in playstyle. Perfect for 3-4 brief dialogue options.
Someone else said it but, these four choices pretty much cover your RPG archetypes: muscle, stealth, magic, and face. So that's actually a broad range of playstyle choices to dealing with situations. Its just the roleplaying part that is going to lean heavily vanilla, because yeah Malkavian dialogue or dealing with masquerade as a Nosferatu would take more effort. (And so they probably sell it to you as DLC...)
I guess Venture kind of covers the same bases, but still...
I still worry about lack of character creator / customization but who knows.
So i guess it’s a toss up with them and Tremere
I don't know what that says.
They said the model wasn't ready, to which I say, uh, then why not wait to announce it?
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Edit oh video still coming, ignore me!
If they get even close to some of their influences cited, that will be impressive. Granted, I don't think Elden Ring generally falls under Action Brawler given the pace of things. Still, all of the games cited besides Elder Scrolls give really good combat feedback which makes a big difference.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Combat, eh, it looked janky, but serviceable.
I haven't looked at this new reveal at all and my feelings have changed radically due to not glancing
it really makes u think
Don't love my protagonist yapping all of the time in the sequel to a game where you get to be your own vampire, but I can adjust. I hope I can adjust to the stupid thinblood in my head, but it seems like a bad idea and I don't want that dude talking to me while I'm hanging out in vampire night clubs.