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[Heroes of the Storm] Coronavirus can't kill HotS if it's already dead #rollsafe

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Ragnaros is one of the few heroes that can single handily win a game by creating ovewhelming map pressure while your team slowly loses.

    He is THE hero to pick if you wanna solo carry a game of nublords.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Ragnaros is one of the few heroes that can single handily win a game by creating ovewhelming map pressure while your team slowly loses.

    He is THE hero to pick if you wanna solo carry a game of nublords.

    Because Sulfuras Smash is just so good?

    ;)

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    kime wrote: »
    Ragnaros is one of the few heroes that can single handily win a game by creating ovewhelming map pressure while your team slowly loses.

    He is THE hero to pick if you wanna solo carry a game of nublords.

    Because Sulfuras Smash is just so good?

    ;)

    I will murder you.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    W build???

    Who needs sustain when your trying to solo carry?

    SeGaTai on
    PSN SeGaTai
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I don't want to sound like that guy, but how the hell can I get out of Bronze when my teammates are so terrible?

    Blindly sitting in lanes and getting ganked
    Invading into the only unclaimed camp on the board when it's obvious they are all there and dying
    Going 1-8 as Naz against a team with little to no CC in under 10 minutes
    Taking a team fight 4v5 at level 19 vs level 18 when I'm literally 10 seconds away from soaking us to 20

    These have been my last couple of losses and they drive me up the fucking wall. I was a few wins away from Silver and fell back to Bronze 2. Like, I wish I could hard carry the team, but I'm not THAT good.

    the thing about lower ranks is that you have to game the system. you won't actually be playing the game til you get higher up, but in order to get to that point, you need to work things in your favor.

    you might think, "i'll just play my best heroes!" nah. nah nah nah. you might be good on those heroes, but you will not win games that way. instead, you have to win the game by not playing the game.

    ...which is to say, you need to play very specific heroes that can literally win the game all on their own via macro and splitpushing. murky, azmodan, etc etc. murky in particular is great since he goes unpunished. and at those lower ranks no one does punish him. you literally just splitpush to core and win. azmo does the same thing but you've gotta be a bit sneakier about it. ignore your team, LITERALLY MUTE EVERYONE AT THE START, and just splitpush like crazy.

    you will not win the game by playing the game. you have to game the system until you're at a rank where your other teammates actually know how to play. or, at least, aren't bronze.


    or, yknow, do like i do and just say "fuck it" and play QM and have fun. that's the only way i can have fun, and i placed in diamond. and diamond is godawful. honestly no different than bronze at times. i gave up! i gave up real fast. went straight back to QM. QM players are legitimately better than diamond SL players.

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Yesssss, forsake your teammates and live the filthy one trick life; I'm sure after a few wins you'll turn away from its seductive embrace and start playing for your team again.

    PSN SeGaTai
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I would not listen to Dibby’s advice, dover

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I would not listen to Dibby’s advice, dover

    :P

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Yeah, do that but with Rexxar instead.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2020
    kime wrote: »
    I would not listen to Dibby’s advice, dover

    :P

    That build won a Div A playoff game, respek

    Edit actually, two div A playoff games. I casted one where one team went Q DW on AV

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    nah my advice is primo shit

    don't listen to munkus's advice tho he plays q build deathwing

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    “Ignore your team just split push and also play QM instead” is not constructive advice for someone wanting to get out of bronze storm league.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Munkus's Deathwing build is sound. I've played healers in multiple mmos and I can confirm that people love standing in the fire. People who avoid standing in the fire are really rare.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Neither of them are wrong, honestly.

    You can climb in different ways.

    You have to find what works for you.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Munkus's Deathwing build is sound. I've played healers in multiple mmos and I can confirm that people love standing in the fire. People who avoid standing in the fire are really rare.

    Also the way you play the build is to give them a Sophie’s choice of engage and die or retreat and concede the objective.

    When we won the playoff game I had as much damage as the rest of the team combined but we had one kill to their seven. Because the ability to control space is extremely important and reaction times necessitate taking some damage. We also forced a lot of camp fights/engages pre-10 because they could not walk onto a point to man fight DW Q.

    Kime even asked the team captain why they let DW through and they said it was because they thought BoE was a map DW wasn’t impactful on, but that they were proven wrong.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    >deathwing is the most OP hero in the game right now even after multiple rounds of nerfs
    >team lets DW through in an organized draft game
    >team that let DW through loses

    WOW COLOR ME SURPRISED

    i don't understand why people don't just universally ban DW, his winrate is that high for a reason

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Well clearly they let him through because they listened to your advice and thought q build was trash :rotate:

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    just stun hi--oh right

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    just stun hi--oh right

    Just cower mortals before the cunning god of death

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Munkus's Deathwing build is sound. I've played healers in multiple mmos and I can confirm that people love standing in the fire. People who avoid standing in the fire are really rare.

    I would assume that the heroes that sit in the fire are well done.
    kime wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I don't want to sound like that guy, but how the hell can I get out of Bronze when my teammates are so terrible?

    Blindly sitting in lanes and getting ganked
    Invading into the only unclaimed camp on the board when it's obvious they are all there and dying
    Going 1-8 as Naz against a team with little to no CC in under 10 minutes
    Taking a team fight 4v5 at level 19 vs level 18 when I'm literally 10 seconds away from soaking us to 20

    These have been my last couple of losses and they drive me up the fucking wall. I was a few wins away from Silver and fell back to Bronze 2. Like, I wish I could hard carry the team, but I'm not THAT good.

    What heroes are you playing? Maybe that's a place to start? Pick heroes that can win without a team lol

    Oh oh! I'll make a new account and we'll duo queue our way out!

    For heroes, I've decided to switch to split pushing types. Mainly (in no particular order): Ragnaros, Samuro, Murky, and Falstad. Those heroes are almost always available after bans (which are 90% DW, Kael, Varian, and 10% Garrosh/Auriel/ETC/Azmo).

    The problem I've encountered is catching overlap with teammates showing like Naz or Azmo and not being the lane soaker they need to be. In those cases, I'm pushed into a Tank role (which I'm fine with), but I don't feel like I'm being near as impactful.

    My highest winrate is typically with Rag, but even then, sometimes I lose games to 4v5 team wipes. It's...frustrating to say the least.

    MNC Dover on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Munkus's Deathwing build is sound. I've played healers in multiple mmos and I can confirm that people love standing in the fire. People who avoid standing in the fire are really rare.

    I would assume that the.
    kime wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I don't want to sound like that guy, but how the hell can I get out of Bronze when my teammates are so terrible?

    Blindly sitting in lanes and getting ganked
    Invading into the only unclaimed camp on the board when it's obvious they are all there and dying
    Going 1-8 as Naz against a team with little to no CC in under 10 minutes
    Taking a team fight 4v5 at level 19 vs level 18 when I'm literally 10 seconds away from soaking us to 20

    These have been my last couple of losses and they drive me up the fucking wall. I was a few wins away from Silver and fell back to Bronze 2. Like, I wish I could hard carry the team, but I'm not THAT good.

    What heroes are you playing? Maybe that's a place to start? Pick heroes that can win without a team lol

    Oh oh! I'll make a new account and we'll duo queue our way out!

    For heroes, I've decided to switch to split pushing types. Mainly (in no particular order): Ragnaros, Samuro, Murky, and Falstad. Those heroes are almost always available after bans (which are 90% DW, Kael, Varian, and 10% Garrosh/Auriel/ETC/Azmo).

    The problem I've encountered is catching overlap with teammates showing like Naz or Azmo and not being the lane soaker they need to be. In those cases, I'm pushed into a Tank role (which I'm fine with), but I don't feel like I'm being near as impactful.

    My highest winrate is typically with Rag, but even then, sometimes I lose games to 4v5 team wipes. It's...frustrating to say the least.

    Rag has the benefit of contributing a lot to teamfights, having self sustain, and being able to destroy teams with either offensive MC or a defensive one with a lava wave follow up.

    Even in diamond/masters I have won games off of sudden MC or constant wave push.

    And as long as you win 55% of your games you’ll climb out eventually

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Of those 4 falstad is probably the most universal where if your team does take another off laner he can play in the 4 man without really losing anything. Just go full w instead of the older swiss army knife bird box build

    PSN SeGaTai
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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    How to climb to Plat (or higher) in HotS:

    (1) Ignore whatever your teammates are doing
    (2) Pick a hero: (a) with good waveclear, (b) who can quickly solo merc camps
    (3) Prioritize clearing waves and getting camps while avoiding both your team and the enemy team (i.e., you want to get XP your team isn't going to get, and you want to avoid getting killed by the other team)
    (4) Don't try to burn down buildings on your own unless you know where the enemy team is. Even then, 80% of the time you will get more value just going to another empty lane and clearing the wave instead of solo sieging.
    (5) Feel free to entirely ignore early-game objectives all the way up to objectives that aren't game-deciding (e.g., if the game won't end based on who is going to take it, who cares?)

    This will straight up win you games based entirely on XP and map pressure. Your team will bitch and moan when they die but who cares because you will win the game.

    People think that players like Fan dominate the Bronze-to-GM challenge because they are just so much more mechanically skilled than the other team. That might be true, but if you watch them actually play, most of the time they win simply by following the above and using any down time to cheese and screw around. Fan dies A LOT for someone of his skill level (there have been games in Silver where he was top deaths on his team), and it doesn't matter because he makes sure to do the fundamental things that win games, which ensures that his team is still in a good spot even though he ints. Mechanical skill in HotS is very much overrated unless the skill gap is massive. Game knowledge and macro play will give you a more consistent advantage that you can leverage regardless of everything else, especially if you pick from a hero pool that can clear waves and take camps.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    My MMR is still too high for that still, apparently. Downloaded and queued up a murky game for fun, match into Aba/Illidan/Samuro who, every time I go to try and bribe a camp, are already taking it.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Good heroes to pick:
    • Ragnaros - a god-king amongst potatoes because a well-timed Lava Wave will absolutely destroy the other team
    • Murky - double soak god, free camps with Bribe, deaths don't matter
    • Falstad - good at double soak once he gets his 7, free camps with Bribe
    • Zagara - average waveclear, but creep provides good mobility/vision between lanes, can absolutely body structures if left alone

    Xul is a bit of an outlier because he can't solo the harder camps well while also technically being a melee hero. However, his skeletons can do a ton of work if left alone and his kit is actually optimized for you to clear a wave quickly and leave, which is what you want to be doing all game anyway. Decent pick on small 3-lane maps.

    Gazlowe is a trap hero unless you have both fantastic map awareness and know how to use his turrets properly (which very few people actually do). He has mediocre wave clear unless he burns his mana and has to go into melee range to do anything, and really only exists to push down structures. If you want to burn down buildings then just take Zagara.

    Azmodan can similarly be considered a trap hero. His kit doesn't come online until late game, and unless you take a specific talent want to stand around in a single lane attacking heroes, he requires help from your teammates to scale properly (if you can't finish stacks by something like 13 minutes, you should've picked another hero).

    Mages can be good picks, but suffer from being unable to solo-cap bruiser camps until late game. However, some of them like Jaina and Gul'dan have such fantastic waveclear that they're still good for your main strategy. Plus, other camps like Siege Giants can still be taken quickly. I would put Nazeebo in this group - the nice thing about Nazeebo vs. other mages is that once his kit goes online in the late game he can provide an overwhelming advantage in those game-deciding objective fights.

    Bruisers like Malthael, Artanis, and Sonya can work really well, too. However, they require a significantly higher skill floor in order to ensure you are never out of position and don't die during fights/ganks. If you can avoid the other team, though, you'll see a ton of value because they can actually take the harder camps in the game. Rexxar also falls into this bucket.

    Final note:
    Do not feel compelled to pick a "good" team comp. Prioritize your own ability to clear waves and take camps. Team composition is meaningless until you meet certain prerequisites - among them the assumption that you aren't at an experience disadvantage. If you are a tank in the perfect team comp but your team is always behind in XP, then your tank pick didn't matter. This becomes especially true at lower skill levels where meaningful differences in hero kits largely go un-leveraged in the first place.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Sounds like Malthael.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    One thing to keep in mind Dover is that even in bronze expect half the players to be smurfs

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Blizzard: "HotS is the world's first Hero Brawler"
    Antaeus: "HotS is the world's first Hero Avoider"

    forty on
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    Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    See I'm glad deathwing is around because I can play the same stuff I did against chogall when they were mega popular. Namely just bring out Leoric and abuse that giant hitbox with drain hope and his percentage autos. I haven't had trouble against him

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    A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    What is the correct way to use gazlowes turrets?

    I tend to drop them around the edges of fights.

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    Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    One thing to keep in mind Dover is that even in bronze expect half the players to be smurfs

    Lost a game to a team that had a Valla who was absolutely mechanically wrecking everyone. Perfect studderstepping, perfect decision making on when to aggressively E in for a kill, and a 12-0 endgame result. Looked up that player's profile after the game.

    15 games played. Sure, that's a new player. Can I get some of those points I lost back?

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    yoooooooo?
    wl3lpGI.jpg?1

    YOOOOOOOOOOO?
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    I would have died Many times if they were paying any attention lmao
    4xJLTMj.jpg?1

    The Escape Goat on
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    People like to meme on the way I play HotS, but it works. Antaeus is essentially advocating for the same thing. I climbed the ranks initially with Nazeebo, in part because I liked him, but also because he's a super late-game hero and every low-level game goes 20+ so you're guaranteed to get major value with him in the end. Additionally, his Voodoo Ritual quest teaches you to clear waves and soak. You want to get those stacks up as high as you possibly can, so you're constantly clearing waves. You learn how to rotate quickly and safely. You learn all the things that you need to learn to climb the ranks, just while you're playing Nazeebo. He can also take camps at a decent enough pace, and he can siege the shit out of things with Walls and Gargs.

    That's what worked for me, though. Your mileage may vary.

    No matter what you decide to do, though, just remember that you don't get out of Bronze by helping your teammates succeed. You have to acknowledge to yourself that your teammates are all terrible, that they don't know what they're doing, and that, even if you put all of your effort into helping them, it's still a coin toss because they're just fucking bad and they won't do anything with the advantages you've given them. They don't know how to soak; so you have to soak. They don't know how to take camps effectively; so you have to take camps effectively. They don't know how to counter-push and siege outside of objective pushes; so you have to do those things for them. And guess what? The enemy team is shit, too, so you're likely to go completely un-punished. You think they're going to catch you out on their giants? Fuck no, dude. It's Bronze. Ain't nobody taking the fucking giants in Bronze unless the whole team's there.

    Shit, I play Rat-DotA against Masters and Grandmasters and they're shit at countering it, too (part of that's because it's 2020 and a HotS Master player is essentially Plat, but that's another story).

    The one thing you can give your team that will actually help them is levels and lane pressure. All your team wants to do is fucking herp derp into the other team, and the only way you can really generate advantage is by keeping them a talent tier ahead and forcing the other team to tilt because nobody is dealing with the lanes.

    milk ducks on
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited February 2020
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    15 games played. Sure, that's a new player. Can I get some of those points I lost back?

    When I made my first MFDuckytime smurf account, I went something obscene like 28 wins / 0 losses right out of the gate. And this was years ago before I was actually any fucking good at HotS.

    I wanna say my MMR on that account was like 4k+.

    milk ducks on
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    I would have died Many times if they were paying any attention lmao

    Heroes of the Storm in a single quote.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    I would have died Many times if they were paying any attention lmao

    Heroes of the Storm in a single quote.

    this was my second game with aba, and while I didn't die in the first they appeared much more cognizant and thus I had to play way safer

    it's about recognizing when the other team has turned their minimap off and exploiting it then

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    All these posts about Bronze are making me literally laugh out loud. Awesome stuff.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Fan refers to the mini-map as "maphacking" in his sub-Diamond games.

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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    I remember back in the day, when I first started playing DotA, and I had this epiphany, like

    "Why the fuck am I playing difficult heroes like Ember Spirit and Tinker? You know what shits on people at my level? Riki. He's easy to play, deals a ton of damage, and nobody at my level buys fucking Wards. It's free real estate."

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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Fan refers to the mini-map as "maphacking" in his sub-Diamond games.

    Hey real talk; I've been watching a lot of Fan on my second monitor while I farm Arcane Crystals in Classic WoW, and it's been pretty fun. But the other day, I sat down and actually watched him play like, giving him my undivided attention. And it was only then, after I mean, years of not really paying attention, that I realized he's not really wearing those fucking sunglasses lol.

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