All autoplay levels could spawn you directly over a spring that immediately bumps you into the goal and I would be equally as impressed by them. I would at least appreciate that they wasted less of my time.
I do think it's kinda funny that Mario Maker was marketed as a way to create the Mario levels of your dreams, and apparently a LOT of people's dreams are levels that play nothing like Mario.
Auto play levels and levels with weird arcane mechanics that the original games never made you use were all over the hacking scene for stuff like SMW, so I’m not at all surprised.
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Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
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ThePantsAssociationA million could-be years on a thousand may-be worldsRegistered Userregular
There seem to be conflicting reports over whether you can play levels online with friends or if you are stuck with randoms. Unfortunately with Nintendo, the latter is a very real possibility.
All autoplay levels could spawn you directly over a spring that immediately bumps you into the goal and I would be equally as impressed by them. I would at least appreciate that they wasted less of my time.
I do think it's kinda funny that Mario Maker was marketed as a way to create the Mario levels of your dreams, and apparently a LOT of people's dreams are levels that play nothing like Mario.
For me, it's a bit daunting that there already exist a ton of professional Mario levels within each of the themes presented - in the games Nintendo made and shipped using those mechanics.
I can't possibly improve on that by making levels with the same sort of concepts in mind. At best, I can riff off a bunch of the things that they've done and just change the order or presentation a bit.
What I can do, though, is bring in design concepts from similar games. Adding some Metroid, a little Castlevania, and a touch of Wizards & Warriors provides for legitimately new experiences in the Mario engine. It's challenging to push the tools in this manner, especially to try to make an end result that's fun for the player, and it's the most honest way to put a personal creative touch into each course.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
All autoplay levels could spawn you directly over a spring that immediately bumps you into the goal and I would be equally as impressed by them. I would at least appreciate that they wasted less of my time.
I do think it's kinda funny that Mario Maker was marketed as a way to create the Mario levels of your dreams, and apparently a LOT of people's dreams are levels that play nothing like Mario.
For me, it's a bit daunting that there already exist a ton of professional Mario levels within each of the themes presented - in the games Nintendo made and shipped using those mechanics.
I can't possibly improve on that by making levels with the same sort of concepts in mind. At best, I can riff off a bunch of the things that they've done and just change the order or presentation a bit.
What I can do, though, is bring in design concepts from similar games. Adding some Metroid, a little Castlevania, and a touch of Wizards & Warriors provides for legitimately new experiences in the Mario engine. It's challenging to push the tools in this manner, especially to try to make an end result that's fun for the player, and it's the most honest way to put a personal creative touch into each course.
Please remove this concept from your mind. You can make better levels than professionals, it's just that they are really good and set the standards high. But that doesn't mean you can't reach or exceed them.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
All autoplay levels could spawn you directly over a spring that immediately bumps you into the goal and I would be equally as impressed by them. I would at least appreciate that they wasted less of my time.
I do think it's kinda funny that Mario Maker was marketed as a way to create the Mario levels of your dreams, and apparently a LOT of people's dreams are levels that play nothing like Mario.
For me, it's a bit daunting that there already exist a ton of professional Mario levels within each of the themes presented - in the games Nintendo made and shipped using those mechanics.
I can't possibly improve on that by making levels with the same sort of concepts in mind. At best, I can riff off a bunch of the things that they've done and just change the order or presentation a bit.
What I can do, though, is bring in design concepts from similar games. Adding some Metroid, a little Castlevania, and a touch of Wizards & Warriors provides for legitimately new experiences in the Mario engine. It's challenging to push the tools in this manner, especially to try to make an end result that's fun for the player, and it's the most honest way to put a personal creative touch into each course.
Please remove this concept from your mind. You can make better levels than professionals, it's just that they are really good and set the standards high. But that doesn't mean you can't reach or exceed them.
Hell, sometimes even Nintendo makes some levels that fall short of what I typically expect from them. And I don't let the fact that there are thousands of better artists out there prevent me from drawing my own pictures.
All autoplay levels could spawn you directly over a spring that immediately bumps you into the goal and I would be equally as impressed by them. I would at least appreciate that they wasted less of my time.
I do think it's kinda funny that Mario Maker was marketed as a way to create the Mario levels of your dreams, and apparently a LOT of people's dreams are levels that play nothing like Mario.
For me, it's a bit daunting that there already exist a ton of professional Mario levels within each of the themes presented - in the games Nintendo made and shipped using those mechanics.
I can't possibly improve on that by making levels with the same sort of concepts in mind. At best, I can riff off a bunch of the things that they've done and just change the order or presentation a bit.
What I can do, though, is bring in design concepts from similar games. Adding some Metroid, a little Castlevania, and a touch of Wizards & Warriors provides for legitimately new experiences in the Mario engine. It's challenging to push the tools in this manner, especially to try to make an end result that's fun for the player, and it's the most honest way to put a personal creative touch into each course.
Please remove this concept from your mind. You can make better levels than professionals, it's just that they are really good and set the standards high. But that doesn't mean you can't reach or exceed them.
It's not a mere question of quality but rather range of content.
I'm sure I could make a great "Mario-style" game. But to do that, I'd want to be able to design my own components to use in the courses. Each Mario game presents a set of components that are then investigated and used in accordance with that design by the professionals.
They rarely leave any space open for those components within the "Mario-style" approach. There's a few exceptions, like the Mario 3 shoe, but most things get pretty thoroughly examined and utilized in a wide range of applications.
That means, if I use those same components in the same "Mario-style" approach, I'm just riffing off the professional levels. Even if I manage some marginal degree of improvement, it's still just renditions of what's been done already.
Each Mario game adds new components and then makes use of them to create fresh experiences. That's why they're fun, and that's why the series is mostly still great even after all these years.
To be fair, in MM2 we do actually have a couple of at least new-ish components to play with. So, there's a little bit of room to explore those in the classic style, and I'm sure I'll toy with that for a couple levels.
But for the most part? I want to explore these components used in other style games. I had a lot of luck in the original applying Mario mechanics to Metroid or Wizards & Warriors dungeon-style approach, and it suits my personal design aesthetic. I'm excited to do more of that, because I don't think I anywhere near finished exploring those ideas the first time around. And now there's so many new toys! With the "collect X coins" goal, it's possible to pretty authentically recreate the W&W experience of collecting gems to open the exit door, with all the revisiting and secret-searching implied by those activities. And the keys came along so late last time that I only used them a couple ways before. And the vertical sub worlds is the #1 thing that I wanted with the original. Now that I have it, I can make so many courses I had envisioned but couldn't implement!
This is going to be awesome.
Fleur de Alys on
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
I am proud of my levels. I'd do things like make little machines in the background and try to do story stuff. Like Mario does a raid on a tower but its abandoned/ a trap.
I did traditional stuff too.
Don't limit yourself
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I guess it isn't technically confirmed by Nintendo 100% but a reliable source has stated that Mario Maker 2 will not allow you to play with friends in multiplayer. The reasoning is the leaderboard thing but ffs, Nintendo always gets the one thing wrong.
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WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular
Some good stuff in that video, but also some really baffling decisions. No Mystery Mushrooms? BUT HOW WILL I PLAY AS JUMP GIRL?
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Nintendo must be downright afraid of local multiplayer becoming obsolete or something. There's no good reason to continuously handicap themselves like this. They already did the hard part of netcode for a precision platformer and then punted on the home stretch of matchmaking.
Yeah, professional Mario games are highly polished, but also quite limited in what they set out to do. There's actually a ton of design space that they aren't interested in exploring, either because it's just not their style or because it involves fudging a few things or playing a bit loose with the design in ways they aren't comfortable with.
We had a thread where we ran Mario Maker contests. Someone would name a theme or restriction, and everyone would make a level that fit it. We collectively produced a TON of levels that we're really fun, really interesting, and totally unlike anything Nintendo has made or is likely to make in the future. It's easier to do than you think. Oddball themes, pseudo-narrative elements, clever mechanisms that subvert the components' intended use...there's tons you can do. It was probably the most fun I had that console generation.
Just so we're all clear, I will totally be bringing back our PA weekly course challenges. Originally, I decided a theme or restriction and everyone did there thing. Later, we changed it to the winner would come up with a new theme. We'll be sticking to that approach again, although the winner can always default back to me if they don't want to come up with themes or restrictions.
We'll probably wait until the game is out for a few weeks so everyone can become accustom to it before going in to design competition mode.
MNC Dover on
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
Nintendo must be downright afraid of local multiplayer becoming obsolete or something. There's no good reason to continuously handicap themselves like this. They already did the hard part of netcode for a precision platformer and then punted on the home stretch of matchmaking.
This is the company that created Friend Codes, then got rid of them after it became clear everybody hated them and they were stupid
and then brought them back again in 20-godamn-17 and still has them even with an entirely new network infrastructure in 20-fuckingshitdamn-19
Nintendo must be downright afraid of local multiplayer becoming obsolete or something. There's no good reason to continuously handicap themselves like this. They already did the hard part of netcode for a precision platformer and then punted on the home stretch of matchmaking.
This is the company that created Friend Codes, then got rid of them after it became clear everybody hated them and they were stupid
and then brought them back again in 20-godamn-17 and still has them even with an entirely new network infrastructure in 20-fuckingshitdamn-19
Nintendo: Oh did you think online was going to be good now that you're paying for it? Yeah.... about that..... boy, this is awkward.
Nintendo must be downright afraid of local multiplayer becoming obsolete or something. There's no good reason to continuously handicap themselves like this. They already did the hard part of netcode for a precision platformer and then punted on the home stretch of matchmaking.
This is the company that created Friend Codes, then got rid of them after it became clear everybody hated them and they were stupid
and then brought them back again in 20-godamn-17 and still has them even with an entirely new network infrastructure in 20-fuckingshitdamn-19
Nintendo: Oh did you think online was going to be good now that you're paying for it? Yeah.... about that..... boy, this is awkward.
But it's cheap, that means it's okay for it to be shitty.
For me online co-op will always be a glorified extra. If people want to riot to force Nintendo to implement it, more power to them, but I'm not focusing on that part of the experience at all.
Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09 P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359 Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
Their conclusion is probably going to be that they shouldn't have implemented 4-player at all, and from their perspective that's probably not even wrong. They added a hundred new things, and people would be happier if they had only added 99.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Yeah SMM was always about the levels first. So this is just a small loss of something that we never even had yet.
IMO when it comes to making levels, you can't compare your ideas to what has already been done. Make a level you love, and just hope others love it too. I still love most of the levels I made in the Wii U game outside of a few that were done with no time like the IMM ones. I often go back and play them here and there and enjoy it. Especially the ones I went back and did an improvement pass on plus added some kind of secret. I liked levels that felt like something you wanted to explore and not just experience some new gimmick. That kind of design IMO never has to worry about what is done before, because every single one is a new experience.
I guess in short, don't overthink it. Just make something you love and someone else will love it too. Unfortunately even if it is an auto level >_>
Collecting the mystery mushroom costumes was the thing about MM that kept my interest the longest. The ones they added were a nice reward for special event courses too.
MM2 has very little for me without them, I'm afraid. Now correct me if I'm wrong.... are costumes still in there but without amiibo support?
Just so we're all clear, I will totally be bringing back our PA weekly course challenges. Originally, I decided a theme or restriction and everyone did there thing. Later, we changed it to the winner would come up with a new theme. We'll be sticking to that approach again, although the winner can always default back to me if they don't want to come up with themes or restrictions.
We'll probably wait until the game is out for a few weeks so everyone can become accustom to it before going in to design competition mode.
I will SO be back for this! Mark my words! Those contests were so much fun, and my only regret is that I wasn't there from the very beginning, and that it eventually died.
Djiem on
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WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular
Watching the clips of multiplayer, seeing a lot of stuff like clown cars respawn on a super fast timer. I hope that behavior can be disabled somehow, because it's going to ruin so much design space for multiplayer levels if not.
The embargo lifting has been mostly bad news, it seems.
Watching the clips of multiplayer, seeing a lot of stuff like clown cars respawn on a super fast timer. I hope that behavior can be disabled somehow, because it's going to ruin so much design space for multiplayer levels if not.
The embargo lifting has been mostly bad news, it seems.
It seems that way, but nah, there's still a lot of great stuff to look forward to. People are upset about the multiplayer (which is fair), but the core of the game is solid.
To put some perspective on things, people would probably have bought this if there had been no multiplayer in the first place, because that wasn't really the primary point of the game. So yes, it's a very silly decision to not have 'play online with friends' as a feature (and a very Nintendo thing to do), but I wouldn't (personally) call it a deal breaker.
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I do think it's kinda funny that Mario Maker was marketed as a way to create the Mario levels of your dreams, and apparently a LOT of people's dreams are levels that play nothing like Mario.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
I can't possibly improve on that by making levels with the same sort of concepts in mind. At best, I can riff off a bunch of the things that they've done and just change the order or presentation a bit.
What I can do, though, is bring in design concepts from similar games. Adding some Metroid, a little Castlevania, and a touch of Wizards & Warriors provides for legitimately new experiences in the Mario engine. It's challenging to push the tools in this manner, especially to try to make an end result that's fun for the player, and it's the most honest way to put a personal creative touch into each course.
Please remove this concept from your mind. You can make better levels than professionals, it's just that they are really good and set the standards high. But that doesn't mean you can't reach or exceed them.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Hell, sometimes even Nintendo makes some levels that fall short of what I typically expect from them. And I don't let the fact that there are thousands of better artists out there prevent me from drawing my own pictures.
I'm sure I could make a great "Mario-style" game. But to do that, I'd want to be able to design my own components to use in the courses. Each Mario game presents a set of components that are then investigated and used in accordance with that design by the professionals.
They rarely leave any space open for those components within the "Mario-style" approach. There's a few exceptions, like the Mario 3 shoe, but most things get pretty thoroughly examined and utilized in a wide range of applications.
That means, if I use those same components in the same "Mario-style" approach, I'm just riffing off the professional levels. Even if I manage some marginal degree of improvement, it's still just renditions of what's been done already.
Each Mario game adds new components and then makes use of them to create fresh experiences. That's why they're fun, and that's why the series is mostly still great even after all these years.
To be fair, in MM2 we do actually have a couple of at least new-ish components to play with. So, there's a little bit of room to explore those in the classic style, and I'm sure I'll toy with that for a couple levels.
But for the most part? I want to explore these components used in other style games. I had a lot of luck in the original applying Mario mechanics to Metroid or Wizards & Warriors dungeon-style approach, and it suits my personal design aesthetic. I'm excited to do more of that, because I don't think I anywhere near finished exploring those ideas the first time around. And now there's so many new toys! With the "collect X coins" goal, it's possible to pretty authentically recreate the W&W experience of collecting gems to open the exit door, with all the revisiting and secret-searching implied by those activities. And the keys came along so late last time that I only used them a couple ways before. And the vertical sub worlds is the #1 thing that I wanted with the original. Now that I have it, I can make so many courses I had envisioned but couldn't implement!
This is going to be awesome.
I did traditional stuff too.
Don't limit yourself
Thats just fucking baffling.
That is really silly. Just patch the option in and make Leaderboards disabled when playing with friends. Problem solved!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Like, at the very least, they could import the Nintendo character sprites from the previous game pretty easily?
I'm not playing with randos.
We had a thread where we ran Mario Maker contests. Someone would name a theme or restriction, and everyone would make a level that fit it. We collectively produced a TON of levels that we're really fun, really interesting, and totally unlike anything Nintendo has made or is likely to make in the future. It's easier to do than you think. Oddball themes, pseudo-narrative elements, clever mechanisms that subvert the components' intended use...there's tons you can do. It was probably the most fun I had that console generation.
We'll probably wait until the game is out for a few weeks so everyone can become accustom to it before going in to design competition mode.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
This is the company that created Friend Codes, then got rid of them after it became clear everybody hated them and they were stupid
and then brought them back again in 20-godamn-17 and still has them even with an entirely new network infrastructure in 20-fuckingshitdamn-19
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Nintendo: Oh did you think online was going to be good now that you're paying for it? Yeah.... about that..... boy, this is awkward.
But it's cheap, that means it's okay for it to be shitty.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
P-POWER Switch Palace 3838-0000-0122-9359
Raiding the Serpents Tomb 1A04-0000-0098-C11E
I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048
See my profile here!
IMO when it comes to making levels, you can't compare your ideas to what has already been done. Make a level you love, and just hope others love it too. I still love most of the levels I made in the Wii U game outside of a few that were done with no time like the IMM ones. I often go back and play them here and there and enjoy it. Especially the ones I went back and did an improvement pass on plus added some kind of secret. I liked levels that felt like something you wanted to explore and not just experience some new gimmick. That kind of design IMO never has to worry about what is done before, because every single one is a new experience.
I guess in short, don't overthink it. Just make something you love and someone else will love it too. Unfortunately even if it is an auto level >_>
I really doubt it.
As much as I want to believe this is true... It's more likely that we'll just end up dealing with it.
the removal of the amiibo/mystery costumes is actually way more disappointing though
MM2 has very little for me without them, I'm afraid. Now correct me if I'm wrong.... are costumes still in there but without amiibo support?
I wonder if you can choose from the multiplayer models in single player? It would be nice to just be able to be Toadette whenever.
I will SO be back for this! Mark my words! Those contests were so much fun, and my only regret is that I wasn't there from the very beginning, and that it eventually died.
The embargo lifting has been mostly bad news, it seems.
It seems that way, but nah, there's still a lot of great stuff to look forward to. People are upset about the multiplayer (which is fair), but the core of the game is solid.
To put some perspective on things, people would probably have bought this if there had been no multiplayer in the first place, because that wasn't really the primary point of the game. So yes, it's a very silly decision to not have 'play online with friends' as a feature (and a very Nintendo thing to do), but I wouldn't (personally) call it a deal breaker.