Zack Snyder::Watchmen
David Benioff & D.B. Weiss::A Song of Ice and Fire
Snyder's Watchmen doesn't deserve such a comparison. I understand the many criticisms people have (without necessarily agreeing) and the removal of the squid results in an ending that doesn't fully work if you start thinking about what the actual geopolitical consequences of a rogue American superweapon would be, but otherwise the internal logic of the story (mostly) still holds up. And the adaptation remains a powerful story on a thematic level.
Jaime’s arc is I think the best argument that they’re just shit at writing; beyond abandoning his whole multi-season arc having him run back to Cersei just makes no narrative sense. He’s already been betrayed by and then abandoned her!
And then there’s not even a payoff, he just gets killed by falling rocks
Sounds odd. One of the last things we see Jaime do in the books released before the show even started is get the letter from Cersei begging him to come back to King's Landing and be her champion. Which he burns and ignores.
He burns the letter, but I'm not convinced that he ultimately chooses to ignore her.
(And we'll never know since GRRM doesn't finish what he
He spends the whole next book continuing to ignore her request too.
The last two books are partially simultaneous. Jaime burns Cersei's letter at the end of his last chapter in Crows, and we don't see him in Dragons.
We may be able to presume that Cersei's walk of shame happened after Jaime burned her letter, but we have no idea what it is he's doing at that time, and it certainly wasn't for the full length of a book, chronologically.
We see him in ADWD. He's got at least 1 chapter. In the book we see him at work in the Riverlands getting everyone to stop fighting and then at the end he goes off with Brienne.
That's right, we do see him. In that single chapter, he mentions he has business in King's Landing.
It's not completely clear that Jaime is abandoning Cersei, but he has, at least, not abandoned all other duties to make haste.
Jaime’s arc is I think the best argument that they’re just shit at writing; beyond abandoning his whole multi-season arc having him run back to Cersei just makes no narrative sense. He’s already been betrayed by and then abandoned her!
And then there’s not even a payoff, he just gets killed by falling rocks
Sounds odd. One of the last things we see Jaime do in the books released before the show even started is get the letter from Cersei begging him to come back to King's Landing and be her champion. Which he burns and ignores.
He burns the letter, but I'm not convinced that he ultimately chooses to ignore her.
(And we'll never know since GRRM doesn't finish what he
He spends the whole next book continuing to ignore her request too.
The last two books are partially simultaneous. Jaime burns Cersei's letter at the end of his last chapter in Crows, and we don't see him in Dragons.
We may be able to presume that Cersei's walk of shame happened after Jaime burned her letter, but we have no idea what it is he's doing at that time, and it certainly wasn't for the full length of a book, chronologically.
We see him in ADWD. He's got at least 1 chapter. In the book we see him at work in the Riverlands getting everyone to stop fighting and then at the end he goes off with Brienne.
That's right, we do see him. In that single chapter, he mentions he has business in King's Landing.
It's not completely clear that Jaime is abandoning Cersei, but he has, at least, not abandoned all other duties to make haste.
Zack Snyder::Watchmen
David Benioff & D.B. Weiss::A Song of Ice and Fire
Snyder's Watchmen doesn't deserve such a comparison. I understand the many criticisms people have (without necessarily agreeing) and the removal of the squid results in an ending that doesn't fully work if you start thinking about what the actual geopolitical consequences of a rogue American superweapon would be, but otherwise the internal logic of the story (mostly) still holds up. And the adaptation remains a powerful story on a thematic level.
Also the cultural impact of Watchmen versus GOT is not even the same sport.
D&D failed on such a massive level that fifty year old Midwestern women hated the ending of GOT, let alone everyone else.
(I judge most pop culture intake based on what middle aged to elderly Midwestern women discuss during surgery at a large Minnesota hospital)
D&D is up there with JJ Abrams where I'm not interested in anything else they have to do and would have to have an insane cast or insane writer or the best director for me to take a look at.
Jaime’s arc is I think the best argument that they’re just shit at writing; beyond abandoning his whole multi-season arc having him run back to Cersei just makes no narrative sense. He’s already been betrayed by and then abandoned her!
And then there’s not even a payoff, he just gets killed by falling rocks
Sounds odd. One of the last things we see Jaime do in the books released before the show even started is get the letter from Cersei begging him to come back to King's Landing and be her champion. Which he burns and ignores.
He burns the letter, but I'm not convinced that he ultimately chooses to ignore her.
(And we'll never know since GRRM doesn't finish what he
He spends the whole next book continuing to ignore her request too.
The last two books are partially simultaneous. Jaime burns Cersei's letter at the end of his last chapter in Crows, and we don't see him in Dragons.
We may be able to presume that Cersei's walk of shame happened after Jaime burned her letter, but we have no idea what it is he's doing at that time, and it certainly wasn't for the full length of a book, chronologically.
We see him in ADWD. He's got at least 1 chapter. In the book we see him at work in the Riverlands getting everyone to stop fighting and then at the end he goes off with Brienne.
That's right, we do see him. In that single chapter, he mentions he has business in King's Landing.
It's not completely clear that Jaime is abandoning Cersei, but he has, at least, not abandoned all other duties to make haste.
But I thought
Brienne was luring him to Lady Stoneheart?
That's likely what's going to happen, but we haven't seen it happen yet. Brienne telling Jaime that he has to come with her to rescue Sansa from the Hound is the very end of that chapter, so we don't know for sure what he does. In a later chapter someone tells Cersei that he went off with a woman and without his men, but Martin loves unreliable or misleading reports from a distance.
Zack Snyder::Watchmen
David Benioff & D.B. Weiss::A Song of Ice and Fire
Snyder's Watchmen doesn't deserve such a comparison. I understand the many criticisms people have (without necessarily agreeing) and the removal of the squid results in an ending that doesn't fully work if you start thinking about what the actual geopolitical consequences of a rogue American superweapon would be, but otherwise the internal logic of the story (mostly) still holds up. And the adaptation remains a powerful story on a thematic level.
Also the cultural impact of Watchmen versus GOT is not even the same sport.
D&D failed on such a massive level that fifty year old Midwestern women hated the ending of GOT, let alone everyone else.
(I judge most pop culture intake based on what middle aged to elderly Midwestern women discuss during surgery at a large Minnesota hospital)
D&D is up there with JJ Abrams where I'm not interested in anything else they have to do and would have to have an insane cast or insane writer or the best director for me to take a look at.
Yup. They wanna big "big picture guys" and get a production credit? Whatevs. But if they're actively involved in the day to day decisions, I'll probably wait until the series is finished, see what the general reaction is, and then decide if it's worth it.
It leaves the possibility I'll have it spoiled, and while I'd rather avoid that, if the whole draw is "the twist", then it wasn't for me anyways. Mysteries I know the end of can be interesting in a different way, as I look to see how they get there, rather than whodunnit.
I think they've proven pretty exceptional showrunners (buoyed by very talented design, art, and production crews...all the way through to casting) but rather poor adapters.
And all of Benioff's best writing is his original ideas - City of Thieves, 25th Hour.....Weiss hasn't ever shown any chops.
First trailer for House of the Dragon is out now. Not much to say other than that the casting of the Prince Phillip guy for his maximum British noble elantly smug ruthless dickishness as Aegon is a good move. I'm intrigued, def willing to give it a shot.
I'm sure it'll be great fun to see the story of the OG Mad Queen which solidified Westeros' disdain for women in positions of power before they were vindicated entirely by Her Satanic Majesty Daenerys Targaryen, but I think I'll pass.
I'll probably pass. Just too many red flags for me.
Being a prequel.
Lingering resentment for the source television.
An aspect (Targaryens) that I wasn't a fan of.
I mean, I hope people who do watch enjoy it, and it can wash some of the badness away, but I'll probably wait until it's had it's run, and seen the reviews of the conclusion. It's definitely not going to be event television like the initial run was.
I've written off the series at this point. There are plenty of engaging works by authors that want to actually write their books. If they ever come out I'll probably check them out but if they never do I'm past caring.
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38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
It’ll take some pretty incredible word of mouth that it’s legit very good for me to try and watch
I have zero faith that it’ll be all that interesting. Prequels and spin offs almost never work. And that’s ignoring how much the original show fell off once it didn’t have the books guiding it
I'll probably pass. Just too many red flags for me.
Being a prequel.
Lingering resentment for the source television.
An aspect (Targaryens) that I wasn't a fan of.
Are there any prequels in tv or movies that are well received?
I was having this conversation with a friend.
We couldn't come up with one.
Better Call Saul is probably the best current example, and despite generally being high quality, it still steps into the standard prequel pitfalls on occasion (no, Vince Gilligan, nobody cares about where that stupid bell came from).
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this side story already fleshed out in writing? Feels like it was a pretty complete thing when I read the wiki long ago. While I'm sure they can completely fail at the adaptation, it probably has a better chance than an original work.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this side story already fleshed out in writing? Feels like it was a pretty complete thing when I read the wiki long ago. While I'm sure they can completely fail at the adaptation, it probably has a better chance than an original work.
The book on this covers about 100 years of Westeros history from Aegon's landing on, if I recall, leaving about a century before ASoIAF to be covered in another book, I guess.
While chronicled, it was done in a historian style, not as a true novelization. I thin, and have hope, that there is adaptation room to actually do something with this other than a cheap cash-in.
I'll probably pass. Just too many red flags for me.
Being a prequel.
Lingering resentment for the source television.
An aspect (Targaryens) that I wasn't a fan of.
Are there any prequels in tv or movies that are well received?
I was having this conversation with a friend.
We couldn't come up with one.
Others mentioned Better Call Saul and Rogue One, but it also depends on your definition of "prequel", and how it relates to the source. Also depends on definition of "well received". Do you mean at the same quality or better, or is a small drop acceptable as long as it's not crap?
Example, I liked Smallville (at least early), and I know others liked Gotham, both prequels to existing material, but no direct source.
Checking out a google search, not a lot that I'm familiar with, but Hannibal and Fear The Walking Dead are two I've heard people speak of non-negatively when compared to the source material.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Im going to start watching this twice as hard to spite this thread.
In all seriousness, I really enjoyed Gibbon's the Brief History of Westeros aka the World of Ice and Fire enough that I am just hungry for any more world building that the show provides. So many cool hooks/civilizations that we will likely never see.
I will be fascinated to see how this and the upcoming LotR series pans out.
But yeeeeeah, I'll probably wait until the first season is done before giving it a shot. If there's a chance for a tighter storyline / less character sprawl, it might work.
I will be fascinated to see how this and the upcoming LotR series pans out.
But yeeeeeah, I'll probably wait until the first season is done before giving it a shot. If there's a chance for a tighter storyline / less character sprawl, it might work.
This is actually my biggest complaint about HBO
They mostly seem to insist on weekly releases but god damn it just let me binge from show to show like a drunk getting kicked out of bars all night
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
I will be fascinated to see how this and the upcoming LotR series pans out.
But yeeeeeah, I'll probably wait until the first season is done before giving it a shot. If there's a chance for a tighter storyline / less character sprawl, it might work.
This is actually my biggest complaint about HBO
They mostly seem to insist on weekly releases but god damn it just let me binge from show to show like a drunk getting kicked out of bars all night
But that’s how they hold onto subscriptions for longer than a week.
I will be fascinated to see how this and the upcoming LotR series pans out.
But yeeeeeah, I'll probably wait until the first season is done before giving it a shot. If there's a chance for a tighter storyline / less character sprawl, it might work.
I will be fascinated to see how this and the upcoming LotR series pans out.
But yeeeeeah, I'll probably wait until the first season is done before giving it a shot. If there's a chance for a tighter storyline / less character sprawl, it might work.
How about Wheel of Time? Any interest there?
That one I almost feel like I can't, just because of my history with the other two I mentioned.
When Fellowship came out I had all the time in the world to fall in love, not just with those films (both the theatrical and extended editions, plus supplementary materials) but also the books. I consumed both multiple times over.
Arguably getting into Tolkien in the early 00s sparked my interest in reading fantasy and led to me losing my mind with ASoF&I when I first read it. That's the only time where I finished a book and immediately went to a bookstore to get the next.
Since then, there's obviously no new Tolkien coming out and Martin's output had already slowed to a near crawl by the time Crows was published. I also noped out after the first Hobbit film and my interest similarly rose and fell with everyone else's over GoT.
In the midst of all that I've regularly heard about the Wheel of Time books, how they started strong and then went on for far too long, plus Jordan passing away. From the outside it felt like a stress dream I would have had eight years ago about Martin.
Maybe I'm way off the mark with my assessment, but I'm also a good deal older now and don't have the time to read the source material and fall for it like I had previously with similar fantasy properties. But if I hear good things, sure, I might check it out. I just won't be making room for it ahead of time.
Fake edit: I DID watch the contractually obligated pilot episode that was broadcast on FX years ago at 2 in the morning as sponsored programming. The 22-minute pilot so quickly thrown together that it was shot in one day (and the director died in a car crash on the way home).
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He does have to be near her to kill her, after all.
Snyder's Watchmen doesn't deserve such a comparison. I understand the many criticisms people have (without necessarily agreeing) and the removal of the squid results in an ending that doesn't fully work if you start thinking about what the actual geopolitical consequences of a rogue American superweapon would be, but otherwise the internal logic of the story (mostly) still holds up. And the adaptation remains a powerful story on a thematic level.
That's right, we do see him. In that single chapter, he mentions he has business in King's Landing.
It's not completely clear that Jaime is abandoning Cersei, but he has, at least, not abandoned all other duties to make haste.
But I thought
Also the cultural impact of Watchmen versus GOT is not even the same sport.
D&D failed on such a massive level that fifty year old Midwestern women hated the ending of GOT, let alone everyone else.
(I judge most pop culture intake based on what middle aged to elderly Midwestern women discuss during surgery at a large Minnesota hospital)
D&D is up there with JJ Abrams where I'm not interested in anything else they have to do and would have to have an insane cast or insane writer or the best director for me to take a look at.
That's likely what's going to happen, but we haven't seen it happen yet. Brienne telling Jaime that he has to come with her to rescue Sansa from the Hound is the very end of that chapter, so we don't know for sure what he does. In a later chapter someone tells Cersei that he went off with a woman and without his men, but Martin loves unreliable or misleading reports from a distance.
Yup. They wanna big "big picture guys" and get a production credit? Whatevs. But if they're actively involved in the day to day decisions, I'll probably wait until the series is finished, see what the general reaction is, and then decide if it's worth it.
It leaves the possibility I'll have it spoiled, and while I'd rather avoid that, if the whole draw is "the twist", then it wasn't for me anyways. Mysteries I know the end of can be interesting in a different way, as I look to see how they get there, rather than whodunnit.
And all of Benioff's best writing is his original ideas - City of Thieves, 25th Hour.....Weiss hasn't ever shown any chops.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
I'll probably pass. Just too many red flags for me.
Being a prequel.
Lingering resentment for the source television.
An aspect (Targaryens) that I wasn't a fan of.
I mean, I hope people who do watch enjoy it, and it can wash some of the badness away, but I'll probably wait until it's had it's run, and seen the reviews of the conclusion. It's definitely not going to be event television like the initial run was.
Are there any prequels in tv or movies that are well received?
I was having this conversation with a friend.
We couldn't come up with one.
I have zero faith that it’ll be all that interesting. Prequels and spin offs almost never work. And that’s ignoring how much the original show fell off once it didn’t have the books guiding it
Better Call Saul is probably the best current example, and despite generally being high quality, it still steps into the standard prequel pitfalls on occasion (no, Vince Gilligan, nobody cares about where that stupid bell came from).
Better Call Saul is the best I could think of
Rogue One comes to mind, does Godfather 2 count?
Half of the Godfather Part II?
The book on this covers about 100 years of Westeros history from Aegon's landing on, if I recall, leaving about a century before ASoIAF to be covered in another book, I guess.
While chronicled, it was done in a historian style, not as a true novelization. I thin, and have hope, that there is adaptation room to actually do something with this other than a cheap cash-in.
Narrator: It was, in fact, a cheap cash in.
Others mentioned Better Call Saul and Rogue One, but it also depends on your definition of "prequel", and how it relates to the source. Also depends on definition of "well received". Do you mean at the same quality or better, or is a small drop acceptable as long as it's not crap?
Example, I liked Smallville (at least early), and I know others liked Gotham, both prequels to existing material, but no direct source.
Checking out a google search, not a lot that I'm familiar with, but Hannibal and Fear The Walking Dead are two I've heard people speak of non-negatively when compared to the source material.
That said? I already have HBO Max so I'll probably end up checking it out :P
A brief perusal of the major porn sites suggests this is a lucrative market though.
Brief perusal, riiiiight. :razz:
"It was research, I swear!"
Wow, if people are that into bad wigs, that explains why shitty Halloween costumes are so popular.
I have HBO Max and I won't be checking it out.
In all seriousness, I really enjoyed Gibbon's the Brief History of Westeros aka the World of Ice and Fire enough that I am just hungry for any more world building that the show provides. So many cool hooks/civilizations that we will likely never see.
But yeeeeeah, I'll probably wait until the first season is done before giving it a shot. If there's a chance for a tighter storyline / less character sprawl, it might work.
This is actually my biggest complaint about HBO
They mostly seem to insist on weekly releases but god damn it just let me binge from show to show like a drunk getting kicked out of bars all night
But that’s how they hold onto subscriptions for longer than a week.
How about Wheel of Time? Any interest there?
That one I almost feel like I can't, just because of my history with the other two I mentioned.
When Fellowship came out I had all the time in the world to fall in love, not just with those films (both the theatrical and extended editions, plus supplementary materials) but also the books. I consumed both multiple times over.
Arguably getting into Tolkien in the early 00s sparked my interest in reading fantasy and led to me losing my mind with ASoF&I when I first read it. That's the only time where I finished a book and immediately went to a bookstore to get the next.
Since then, there's obviously no new Tolkien coming out and Martin's output had already slowed to a near crawl by the time Crows was published. I also noped out after the first Hobbit film and my interest similarly rose and fell with everyone else's over GoT.
In the midst of all that I've regularly heard about the Wheel of Time books, how they started strong and then went on for far too long, plus Jordan passing away. From the outside it felt like a stress dream I would have had eight years ago about Martin.
Maybe I'm way off the mark with my assessment, but I'm also a good deal older now and don't have the time to read the source material and fall for it like I had previously with similar fantasy properties. But if I hear good things, sure, I might check it out. I just won't be making room for it ahead of time.
Fake edit: I DID watch the contractually obligated pilot episode that was broadcast on FX years ago at 2 in the morning as sponsored programming. The 22-minute pilot so quickly thrown together that it was shot in one day (and the director died in a car crash on the way home).