So... is it someone who's bi, but more towards the same-sex attraction side of the Kinsey continuum?
Very interesting - haven't met anyone yet who identifies that way!
(Tho I know only 5 bi people including myself so not much of a sample X)
0
Options
Metzger MeisterIt Gets Worsebefore it gets any better.Registered Userregular
Confusing but not sad gender stuff in the spoiler
So, I've put some pretty strenuous thought into it, and I don't know that I'm trans, but I sure as shit don't identify with like, typical "American" style masculine bullshit, or the idea of being like a "man" I guess? I did a lot of performative masculinity growing up, until I got to be like 18 or so, because I really didn't want anyone to know I was gay or whatever, and now the entire binary just seems really hollow and performative for me personally?
Tl;dr i guess i'm probably nonbinary? shit man, bisexuals may not be confused about their sexuality, but this bisexual sure is fucking confused generally.
+25
Options
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
So, I've put some pretty strenuous thought into it, and I don't know that I'm trans, but I sure as shit don't identify with like, typical "American" style masculine bullshit, or the idea of being like a "man" I guess? I did a lot of performative masculinity growing up, until I got to be like 18 or so, because I really didn't want anyone to know I was gay or whatever, and now the entire binary just seems really hollow and performative for me personally?
Tl;dr i guess i'm probably nonbinary? shit man, bisexuals may not be confused about their sexuality, but this bisexual sure is fucking confused generally.
I mean, the American gender essentialst Masculine Man thing just kinda isn't worth the trouble.
+17
Options
Blackhawk1313Demon Hunter for HireTime RiftRegistered Userregular
So I keep coming back to things here and have a lot more to unpack, and I feel bad even musing here because any minute amount of struggle in my own analysis of my existence, pales utterly in comparison to what y’all contend with. I fight to make the privileges afforded to me through no merit of my own, be vehicles for positive change but they remain ever present and impossible to remove from myself at this juncture.
Honestly, y’all are just brave, beautiful, wonderful, amazing people and I try to say that from time to time so I’m not invading your space. I don’t particular feel deserving of any part of this space given that gulf of privilege but wanted to share the bit I’ve sussed out for myself all the same. I apologize for my wordiness, I promise I’ll keep any further analyses within my own neural net.
Thank you for clarifying - my apologies for misunderstanding!
I'm pretty new to this forum so I might be the wrong person to say this, but this thread feels to me like a wonderful safe space where everyone is welcome, regardless of which part of the QUILTBAG umbrella we're from. So, if posting your musings here helps with unpacking stuff, thanks for giving us the privilege of hearing your thoughts and learning about your experiences : )
+11
Options
Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
So I keep coming back to things here and have a lot more to unpack, and I feel bad even musing here because any minute amount of struggle in my own analysis of my existence, pales utterly in comparison to what y’all contend with. I fight to make the privileges afforded to me through no merit of my own, be vehicles for positive change but they remain ever present and impossible to remove from myself at this juncture.
Honestly, y’all are just brave, beautiful, wonderful, amazing people and I try to say that from time to time so I’m not invading your space. I don’t particular feel deserving of any part of this space given that gulf of privilege but wanted to share the bit I’ve sussed out for myself all the same. I apologize for my wordiness, I promise I’ll keep any further analyses within my own neural net.
This thread (or, well, one of its ancestors) is what made me more comfortable with participating in queer spaces, despite being, at the time, a white affluent cis male who happened to be bisexual. I never felt called out for having my own struggles with bisexuality despite being otherwise completely privileged in every way. I credit this space a huge amount with encouraging me to explore romantically dating men rather than just approaching them sexually, and that was an important component of the self-examination that eventually led to me realizing I was some version of trans.
I think it's important to have awareness about the disparity in privilege between members of queer spaces, but not to the extent of dismissing the struggles and confusion of those who are trying to find their own place in all of this. Please don't feel like you have to keep all your thoughts on your own journey to yourself! I've seen this thread help so many people work through things, including myself, and you have every right to that help and support too!
So, my best understanding is that bi-lesbian refers to one of three things:
1. A non-man who is attracted to women and other non-men.
2. A woman whose sexuality and romantic attractions differ, ie bisexual and homoromantic, etc.
3. A TERF term for a lesbian who dates trans women.
The existence of #3 seems to be the core of the debate - is that widespread enough to make the term a no-no or is it basically a non-issue exaggerated by people trying to control the identities of others?
Some say that #1 is already covered by lesbian because lesbian has historically been defined as male-exclusive rather than women-only. Others say that's inherently transphobic.
Some use it to say they'll date women and trans men only, which. No further commentary necessary.
Some say that the term "sapphic" is a better alternative. Others say it's too imprecise.
So yeah, it's a mess out there right now.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
+1
Options
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
Is there any clear record of where the term originated? Like did it start with TERFs and folks are attempting to reclaim it, or did it start with good intentions and TERFs are stealing it and trying to use it as one of their back door "using the right language to say bigoted shit" things?
Sorry for the barrage of questions and please don't answer if you don't want to discuss further!
So, my best understanding is that bi-lesbian refers to one of three things:
1. A non-man who is attracted to women and other non-men.
2. A woman whose sexuality and romantic attractions differ, ie bisexual and homoromantic, etc.
3. A TERF term for a lesbian who dates trans women.
The existence of #3 seems to be the core of the debate - is that widespread enough to make the term a no-no or is it basically a non-issue exaggerated by people trying to control the identities of others?
Some say that #1 is already covered by lesbian because lesbian has historically been defined as male-exclusive rather than women-only. Others say that's inherently transphobic.
Some use it to say they'll date women and trans men only, which. No further commentary necessary.
Some say that the term "sapphic" is a better alternative. Others say it's too imprecise.
So yeah, it's a mess out there right now.
Honestly number 1 still sounds pretty transphobic to me in that it lumps nonbinary gender identities as "basically just women" rather than really accepting them and valid and distinct. And call me a pessimist, but I've had enough bad experiences that if I heard someone use it in that way I'd automatically assume that they'd date AFAB nonbinary people but not AMAB ones unless they explicitly told me otherwise. "Lesbian" is just too loaded of a term.
Is there any clear record of where the term originated? Like did it start with TERFs and folks are attempting to reclaim it, or did it start with good intentions and TERFs are stealing it and trying to use it as one of their back door "using the right language to say bigoted shit" things?
Sorry for the barrage of questions and please don't answer if you don't want to discuss further!
I have absolutely no stake in this discussion but I tried to look into it when I saw #GirlInRedIsOverParty a few weeks ago and it was not, in fact, about Schndler's List but instead about a musical artist blocking somebody who incidentally identified as a bi lesbian. As far as I can tell, it primarily, but not exclusively, seems to refer to women/enbie people who believe that "bisexual/pansexual" fits their identity as a modifier to "lesbian", with some but not ubiquitous emphasis on the fact that they see lesbians as exclusively attracted to women and not enbies. That said, this is extremely vague history from a mass of contradicting Reddit posts, the only hits I can find on the subject, and does not necessarily reflect whatever the Twitter sphere or subsets of the Twitter sphere represent. Accusations of TERFery were not super common, but discussion about whether it was insulting to imply no-prefix lesbians are wrong about their identity for liking enbies or whether women with a preference for women who date men should use the label "lesbian".
I'm no expert on the matter, which is why I was hoping there would be one out there who could help. I have seen some evidence of (proto-)TERF usage in the 90s, but also non-harmful efforts to use it that preceded that. Some felt it fell out of use until the TERF revival.
FWIW, I lean towards "this term probably includes misia* or unconscious bias regarding trans / non-binary folk, but some people use it in more eclectic or innocent ways, and I'm not sure if that's harmless or not," so please ingest my summaries with that note. Someone who leans the other way would present this information differently.
*I was asked before about "queermisia." So, there's effort driven by anti-ableism advocates to avoid the use of -phobia or -phobic to describe people who are being hateful and bigoted. Phobias are actual fear conditions people suffer from, and it's not great to associate this behavior with the set of people who do experience phobias. -Misia/misic essentially means hate, so it's more accurate and less problematic. I enjoy how it removes the fear excuse from people who engage in discrimination.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
I'm not familiar with monosexism, but I can guess, and, sure far as I know!
Again, by no means am I an expert. I'm just absorbing everything I can, as I'm being thrust into leadership roles in the local community (because absolutely everything about my new life has to be utterly mind-boggling).
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
+1
Options
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I'm no expert on the matter, which is why I was hoping there would be one out there who could help. I have seen some evidence of (proto-)TERF usage in the 90s, but also non-harmful efforts to use it that preceded that. Some felt it fell out of use until the TERF revival.
FWIW, I lean towards "this term probably includes misia* or unconscious bias regarding trans / non-binary folk, but some people use it in more eclectic or innocent ways, and I'm not sure if that's harmless or not," so please ingest my summaries with that note. Someone who leans the other way would present this information differently.
*I was asked before about "queermisia." So, there's effort driven by anti-ableism advocates to avoid the use of -phobia or -phobic to describe people who are being hateful and bigoted. Phobias are actual fear conditions people suffer from, and it's not great to associate this behavior with the set of people who do experience phobias. -Misia/misic essentially means hate, so it's more accurate and less problematic. I enjoy how it removes the fear excuse from people who engage in discrimination.
I've definitely seen a big part of the pro-bi-lesbian discourse coming from people who are definitely not TERFs but are very young (which is anyone under 20, to me) and are grabbing onto labels that feel right without much care for the context of them. Then you throw that into the mess of Twitter and you have seventeen different conversations happening at the same time and who the hell knows what anyone is arguing for or against.
Hello everyone. I'm a a queer trans woman (She/her and They/Them) and a long time lurker, first time poster. I saw the questions about Bi Lesbians and thought i might be able to help out by sharing some posts about the term. twitter.com/SayoAntiLesSep/status/1268581873988644865
+32
Options
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Welcome, AnalogWarlord!
+19
Options
Blackhawk1313Demon Hunter for HireTime RiftRegistered Userregular
Oh, that does remind me actually. For now, He/him is still fine but They/Them is also acceptable for me.
I don't know to what extent my experience is similar to anyone else's, but when I first started to really interrogate my concept of masculinity and recognize how much of it was goofy self-destructive bullshit, there was a while there where I felt... untethered, and not at all comforted by that sensation. Like, gender as I understood it in general and masculinity in specific were clearly busted ass concepts, but nothing about what people were describing to me about being trans or non-binary felt at all personally resonant either.
My eventual result involved circling back to the handful of traditionally masculine traits that seemed actually worth salvaging, and a lot of contemplating the new traits that were implied as counters to the specific old traits that I was trying to reject, and recognizing that whatever it meant for me to be cisgender man was going to require me to compile the new rules myself. And I'll still spend the rest of my life adjusting and revising those rules, because that kind of deconstruction of such deeply ingrained cultural attitudes isn't something that you ever really get to be done with.
Someday we're going to sort all this out to such a degree that the vocabulary and training and conscious desire to understand and accept one another will be universal, so that people can sort out their true selves comparably effortlessly instead of all this stumbling around in the dark we do now, and especially all this bumping up against the imprecise boundaries of our language. I choose to believe that human society will evolve to that point eventually, and I envy those future folks so much.
Realizing lately that I don't really trust or respect basically any of the moderators here. So, good luck with life, friends! Hit me up on Twitter @DesertLeviathan
+13
Options
Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
They'll be living in houses on fire in a perpetual hurricane living off water rations though so don't feel too jealous
i figured there would eventually have to be terminology for people only attracted to 2 of 3 genders, though it seems complicated.
makes me glad my gender identity and preferences are very simple.
(pansexual, panromantic NB) (though i do identify with "bi" as a label because that was the go-to term in the late 90s)
i figured there would eventually have to be terminology for people only attracted to 2 of 3 genders, though it seems complicated.
makes me glad my gender identity and preferences are very simple.
(pansexual, panromantic NB) (though i do identify with "bi" as a label because that was the go-to term in the late 90s)
Someday we're going to sort all this out to such a degree that the vocabulary and training and conscious desire to understand and accept one another will be universal, so that people can sort out their true selves comparably effortlessly instead of all this stumbling around in the dark we do now, and especially all this bumping up against the imprecise boundaries of our language. I choose to believe that human society will evolve to that point eventually, and I envy those future folks so much.
That is the most wonderful vision of the future I've ever seen
Someday we're going to sort all this out to such a degree that the vocabulary and training and conscious desire to understand and accept one another will be universal, so that people can sort out their true selves comparably effortlessly instead of all this stumbling around in the dark we do now, and especially all this bumping up against the imprecise boundaries of our language. I choose to believe that human society will evolve to that point eventually, and I envy those future folks so much.
That is the most wonderful vision of the future I've ever seen
stumbling across a cover of this song on a tape I got when I was 10 (The Crash Test Dummies first album for the Canadians in the house) did a whole lot to prepare me for learning about and accepting all sorts of gender stuff as I got older
Hello everyone. I'm a a queer trans woman (She/her and They/Them) and a long time lurker, first time poster. I saw the questions about Bi Lesbians and thought i might be able to help out by sharing some posts about the term. twitter.com/SayoAntiLesSep/status/1268581873988644865
That was helpful. Thank you for sharing that.
I almost responded to Fleur's initial post the other day but then I wasn't sure. I know how I'd interpret the term bi-lesbian but then I thought what if they meant something else? I didn't know the history or context behind it and I can see a different interpretation that's problematic.
I've often struggled to find a term that adequately describes my sexuality with more nuance than the most commonly used labels. Lesbian is too narrow a focus. Pan or bisexual too broad. Queer is ambiguous but at least hints there's more to it. Homoflexible is probably the closest but it still lacks specificity. I'm attracted to femininity but that doesn't necessarily have to mean women. My preference is specific but flexible within that parameter. Bi-lesbian seems, well, not great but it's probably the best descriptor I've seen so far.
The growth of non-binary understanding is demolishing our simplistic binary-based sexuality identifiers.
There's a tussle between "specifically include any non-binary attraction in the orientation" and "non-binary people fit into every orientation," and it's all growing pains as we expand our understanding. The terms we use in a decade may bear little resemblance to those of today.
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
Someday we're going to sort all this out to such a degree that the vocabulary and training and conscious desire to understand and accept one another will be universal, so that people can sort out their true selves comparably effortlessly instead of all this stumbling around in the dark we do now, and especially all this bumping up against the imprecise boundaries of our language. I choose to believe that human society will evolve to that point eventually, and I envy those future folks so much.
That is the most wonderful vision of the future I've ever seen
stumbling across a cover of this song on a tape I got when I was 10 (The Crash Test Dummies first album for the Canadians in the house) did a whole lot to prepare me for learning about and accepting all sorts of gender stuff as I got older
Ramblings of a gay male in spoilers. Covers gay (bear) subculture, (hyper)masculinity and sexual (non-explicit) discussion within.
From the age of 18, I always knew I was gay, and thanks to the internet, I found where I belonged in the gay world - as a bear. A fat, hairy guy who also liked big, hairy men.
Its also thanks to the internet that it was easy to belong to the community, and that includes whether or not you were accepting of the idea that your identity also came with, we'll say, being sexually available, especially if you liked to travel. That may just be any community of people who find something niche to belong to. Certainly I've heard of wild things going down at Trekkie or programming conventions.
These days, though? Something feels different. I still like hairy men, but the appeal and culture that I used to appreciate feels... synthetic to me?
Bear used to be a term for gay men who didn't look like your typical marketed or frontward-appearing gay man; thin, smooth-bodied, some effeminate qualities. I believe that is still a generally accepted definition or term, but now it also means having a completely hairy body, possibly multiple tattoos, and at least be into one of several sexual kinks up to and including leather or pup culture.
Maybe its also thanks to the internet that its become so much more widely acceptable and prolific that things have advanced from the old standard to accepting newer things? Any search on certain reddits or twitters will show what I mean.
When did things change? Am I just slowly becoming the old man that prefers the bygone era and not accepting of these changes?
PSN: TheArcadeBear
Steam: TheArcadeBear
0
Options
tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Ramblings of a gay male in spoilers. Covers gay (bear) subculture, (hyper)masculinity and sexual (non-explicit) discussion within.
From the age of 18, I always knew I was gay, and thanks to the internet, I found where I belonged in the gay world - as a bear. A fat, hairy guy who also liked big, hairy men.
Its also thanks to the internet that it was easy to belong to the community, and that includes whether or not you were accepting of the idea that your identity also came with, we'll say, being sexually available, especially if you liked to travel. That may just be any community of people who find something niche to belong to. Certainly I've heard of wild things going down at Trekkie or programming conventions.
These days, though? Something feels different. I still like hairy men, but the appeal and culture that I used to appreciate feels... synthetic to me?
Bear used to be a term for gay men who didn't look like your typical marketed or frontward-appearing gay man; thin, smooth-bodied, some effeminate qualities. I believe that is still a generally accepted definition or term, but now it also means having a completely hairy body, possibly multiple tattoos, and at least be into one of several sexual kinks up to and including leather or pup culture.
Maybe its also thanks to the internet that its become so much more widely acceptable and prolific that things have advanced from the old standard to accepting newer things? Any search on certain reddits or twitters will show what I mean.
When did things change? Am I just slowly becoming the old man that prefers the bygone era and not accepting of these changes?
I suspect part of it is that what used to be a more internal, specific difference - a deliberate sub-culture - has become more mainstream gay culture. The amount of non-gay people who could reasonably identify a "bear" has grown, and it's kind of become a default nomenclature/culture group for gay middle age, portly, mostly furry, (mostly white) dudes. I don't know if it now assumes that bears are covered in fur with tattoos (I know plenty who aren't but still self-identify as bears), though I will grant that that could well be an "ur-bear" body image. I also suspect it may also have to do with advertising and commercialization of the bear image and culture - lots of people to market to.
While I appreciate that perception of gay culture has moved beyond twinks and sculpted abs (see also the proliferation of "daddy" and fetishization of older, masculine men, which I have conflicted feelings about), I think that the proliferation of leather and pup culture is a combination of a) wanting to distinguish oneself within yet another sub-culture and exist outside the mainstream, and b) people being more confident, curious, and comfortable expressing these aspects of their personalities without the judgement that might have come a decade ago. I don't think it's bad, but I can see how you could feel pressure from a local community.
+3
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I dunno where else to go with this, it's not happy stuff and it's also a bit of a long shot for trying to get help for someone. I'll spoil tag it for CW's sake, mild violence.
Someone in a Discord community I'm in got smacked around by their father when coming out as bi, and is having things like computer access limited. They don't have options on places to go and I'm out here on a long shot trying to see if there's anyone available for it. There's a catch though.
They are in Chile.
It's a complete stranger situation I know but this fucking sucks and they deserve better. Are there any reliable resources online to try and find the right kind of help for this? A place to go, no matter where in the country? How to get there?
For those not wanting to read the spoiler tag content are there any reliable online resources for helping someone to move when they're facing a bad 'coming out' situation at home?
Posts
Very interesting - haven't met anyone yet who identifies that way!
(Tho I know only 5 bi people including myself so not much of a sample X)
Tl;dr i guess i'm probably nonbinary? shit man, bisexuals may not be confused about their sexuality, but this bisexual sure is fucking confused generally.
I mean, the American gender essentialst Masculine Man thing just kinda isn't worth the trouble.
Honestly, y’all are just brave, beautiful, wonderful, amazing people and I try to say that from time to time so I’m not invading your space. I don’t particular feel deserving of any part of this space given that gulf of privilege but wanted to share the bit I’ve sussed out for myself all the same. I apologize for my wordiness, I promise I’ll keep any further analyses within my own neural net.
Sorry if I misidentified it...
I'm pretty new to this forum so I might be the wrong person to say this, but this thread feels to me like a wonderful safe space where everyone is welcome, regardless of which part of the QUILTBAG umbrella we're from. So, if posting your musings here helps with unpacking stuff, thanks for giving us the privilege of hearing your thoughts and learning about your experiences : )
This thread (or, well, one of its ancestors) is what made me more comfortable with participating in queer spaces, despite being, at the time, a white affluent cis male who happened to be bisexual. I never felt called out for having my own struggles with bisexuality despite being otherwise completely privileged in every way. I credit this space a huge amount with encouraging me to explore romantically dating men rather than just approaching them sexually, and that was an important component of the self-examination that eventually led to me realizing I was some version of trans.
I think it's important to have awareness about the disparity in privilege between members of queer spaces, but not to the extent of dismissing the struggles and confusion of those who are trying to find their own place in all of this. Please don't feel like you have to keep all your thoughts on your own journey to yourself! I've seen this thread help so many people work through things, including myself, and you have every right to that help and support too!
1. A non-man who is attracted to women and other non-men.
2. A woman whose sexuality and romantic attractions differ, ie bisexual and homoromantic, etc.
3. A TERF term for a lesbian who dates trans women.
The existence of #3 seems to be the core of the debate - is that widespread enough to make the term a no-no or is it basically a non-issue exaggerated by people trying to control the identities of others?
Some say that #1 is already covered by lesbian because lesbian has historically been defined as male-exclusive rather than women-only. Others say that's inherently transphobic.
Some use it to say they'll date women and trans men only, which. No further commentary necessary.
Some say that the term "sapphic" is a better alternative. Others say it's too imprecise.
So yeah, it's a mess out there right now.
Sorry for the barrage of questions and please don't answer if you don't want to discuss further!
It really helps clarify the issue
I'll pay much more attention in future when that term is used & will make sure not to use it myself just in case...
I have absolutely no stake in this discussion but I tried to look into it when I saw #GirlInRedIsOverParty a few weeks ago and it was not, in fact, about Schndler's List but instead about a musical artist blocking somebody who incidentally identified as a bi lesbian. As far as I can tell, it primarily, but not exclusively, seems to refer to women/enbie people who believe that "bisexual/pansexual" fits their identity as a modifier to "lesbian", with some but not ubiquitous emphasis on the fact that they see lesbians as exclusively attracted to women and not enbies. That said, this is extremely vague history from a mass of contradicting Reddit posts, the only hits I can find on the subject, and does not necessarily reflect whatever the Twitter sphere or subsets of the Twitter sphere represent. Accusations of TERFery were not super common, but discussion about whether it was insulting to imply no-prefix lesbians are wrong about their identity for liking enbies or whether women with a preference for women who date men should use the label "lesbian".
FWIW, I lean towards "this term probably includes misia* or unconscious bias regarding trans / non-binary folk, but some people use it in more eclectic or innocent ways, and I'm not sure if that's harmless or not," so please ingest my summaries with that note. Someone who leans the other way would present this information differently.
*I was asked before about "queermisia." So, there's effort driven by anti-ableism advocates to avoid the use of -phobia or -phobic to describe people who are being hateful and bigoted. Phobias are actual fear conditions people suffer from, and it's not great to associate this behavior with the set of people who do experience phobias. -Misia/misic essentially means hate, so it's more accurate and less problematic. I enjoy how it removes the fear excuse from people who engage in discrimination.
Thanks - so helpful!
Heterosexism and monosexism are both OK to use, right?
Again, by no means am I an expert. I'm just absorbing everything I can, as I'm being thrust into leadership roles in the local community (because absolutely everything about my new life has to be utterly mind-boggling).
I've definitely seen a big part of the pro-bi-lesbian discourse coming from people who are definitely not TERFs but are very young (which is anyone under 20, to me) and are grabbing onto labels that feel right without much care for the context of them. Then you throw that into the mess of Twitter and you have seventeen different conversations happening at the same time and who the hell knows what anyone is arguing for or against.
Never too late
My eventual result involved circling back to the handful of traditionally masculine traits that seemed actually worth salvaging, and a lot of contemplating the new traits that were implied as counters to the specific old traits that I was trying to reject, and recognizing that whatever it meant for me to be cisgender man was going to require me to compile the new rules myself. And I'll still spend the rest of my life adjusting and revising those rules, because that kind of deconstruction of such deeply ingrained cultural attitudes isn't something that you ever really get to be done with.
Someday we're going to sort all this out to such a degree that the vocabulary and training and conscious desire to understand and accept one another will be universal, so that people can sort out their true selves comparably effortlessly instead of all this stumbling around in the dark we do now, and especially all this bumping up against the imprecise boundaries of our language. I choose to believe that human society will evolve to that point eventually, and I envy those future folks so much.
makes me glad my gender identity and preferences are very simple.
(pansexual, panromantic NB) (though i do identify with "bi" as a label because that was the go-to term in the late 90s)
Yeah I just use Bi purely for the ease of use.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
That is the most wonderful vision of the future I've ever seen
Thanks for that @Desert Leviathan : )
stumbling across a cover of this song on a tape I got when I was 10 (The Crash Test Dummies first album for the Canadians in the house) did a whole lot to prepare me for learning about and accepting all sorts of gender stuff as I got older
That was helpful. Thank you for sharing that.
I almost responded to Fleur's initial post the other day but then I wasn't sure. I know how I'd interpret the term bi-lesbian but then I thought what if they meant something else? I didn't know the history or context behind it and I can see a different interpretation that's problematic.
I've often struggled to find a term that adequately describes my sexuality with more nuance than the most commonly used labels. Lesbian is too narrow a focus. Pan or bisexual too broad. Queer is ambiguous but at least hints there's more to it. Homoflexible is probably the closest but it still lacks specificity. I'm attracted to femininity but that doesn't necessarily have to mean women. My preference is specific but flexible within that parameter. Bi-lesbian seems, well, not great but it's probably the best descriptor I've seen so far.
There's a tussle between "specifically include any non-binary attraction in the orientation" and "non-binary people fit into every orientation," and it's all growing pains as we expand our understanding. The terms we use in a decade may bear little resemblance to those of today.
In other news I am thinking of test-driving some neopronouns in addition to she/her. I find vi/ver to be pretty fitting for me personally...
Ok but this was easily my favorite replacements song in high school. Who could have seen the signs
In high school, I had no idea I was bi so had no idea why I wanted to watch Femme Fatale with Rebecca Romijn a hundred times X)
Its also thanks to the internet that it was easy to belong to the community, and that includes whether or not you were accepting of the idea that your identity also came with, we'll say, being sexually available, especially if you liked to travel. That may just be any community of people who find something niche to belong to. Certainly I've heard of wild things going down at Trekkie or programming conventions.
These days, though? Something feels different. I still like hairy men, but the appeal and culture that I used to appreciate feels... synthetic to me?
Bear used to be a term for gay men who didn't look like your typical marketed or frontward-appearing gay man; thin, smooth-bodied, some effeminate qualities. I believe that is still a generally accepted definition or term, but now it also means having a completely hairy body, possibly multiple tattoos, and at least be into one of several sexual kinks up to and including leather or pup culture.
Maybe its also thanks to the internet that its become so much more widely acceptable and prolific that things have advanced from the old standard to accepting newer things? Any search on certain reddits or twitters will show what I mean.
When did things change? Am I just slowly becoming the old man that prefers the bygone era and not accepting of these changes?
Steam: TheArcadeBear
While I appreciate that perception of gay culture has moved beyond twinks and sculpted abs (see also the proliferation of "daddy" and fetishization of older, masculine men, which I have conflicted feelings about), I think that the proliferation of leather and pup culture is a combination of a) wanting to distinguish oneself within yet another sub-culture and exist outside the mainstream, and b) people being more confident, curious, and comfortable expressing these aspects of their personalities without the judgement that might have come a decade ago. I don't think it's bad, but I can see how you could feel pressure from a local community.
They are in Chile.
It's a complete stranger situation I know but this fucking sucks and they deserve better. Are there any reliable resources online to try and find the right kind of help for this? A place to go, no matter where in the country? How to get there?