Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
Well what your do then is half way through the second scene with fury of the movie you have him turn back to a skrull and have him beg peter for help because he is in over his head.
I think the Spider-Man unmasking isn't something they are walking back
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
With Skrulls being not the baddies they could do a really interesting switch up on the secret invasion plot
Like if Mysterio had succeeded and Nick Fury morphed into a Skrull can you imagine the panic?
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I think the Spider-Man unmasking isn't something they are walking back
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
They're saying that they'd use a Skrull to be Peter when Spider-man was running around to disprove the claim, so having alien shapeshifters still be an unknown would be a benefit.
I think the Spider-Man unmasking isn't something they are walking back
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
They're saying that they'd use a Skrull to be Peter when Spider-man was running around to disprove the claim, so having alien shapeshifters still be an unknown would be a benefit.
I mean not really because then it looks like a conspiracy theory
Like "X isn't the real person they are a reptilian alien shapeshifter" is a conspiracy theory on our Earth
I can't imagine how bonkers the MCU Conspiracy Theorist subculture is
Without, like, an official acknowledgment of Skrulls as a thing it is Everyone's New Favorite Hero Mysterio's word vs. SHAPESHIFTING ALIENS ARE REAL AND IMPERSONATED A KID FROM QUEENS AS SPIDER-MAN
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
I think the Spider-Man unmasking isn't something they are walking back
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
I’m not so much complaining about aliens being in the movie, but more complaining about the lack of context of them just showing up and not really doing very much to forward the plot at all.
I think the Spider-Man unmasking isn't something they are walking back
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
They're saying that they'd use a Skrull to be Peter when Spider-man was running around to disprove the claim, so having alien shapeshifters still be an unknown would be a benefit.
I mean not really because then it looks like a conspiracy theory
Like "X isn't the real person they are a reptilian alien shapeshifter" is a conspiracy theory on our Earth
I can't imagine how bonkers the MCU Conspiracy Theorist subculture is
Without, like, an official acknowledgment of Skrulls as a thing it is Everyone's New Favorite Hero Mysterio's word vs. SHAPESHIFTING ALIENS ARE REAL AND IMPERSONATED A KID FROM QUEENS AS SPIDER-MAN
N... no they're saying use the skrull now. Have a skrull be peter parker and stand next to spider-man and go "See they're not the same person!"
I think the Spider-Man unmasking isn't something they are walking back
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
They're saying that they'd use a Skrull to be Peter when Spider-man was running around to disprove the claim, so having alien shapeshifters still be an unknown would be a benefit.
I mean not really because then it looks like a conspiracy theory
Like "X isn't the real person they are a reptilian alien shapeshifter" is a conspiracy theory on our Earth
I can't imagine how bonkers the MCU Conspiracy Theorist subculture is
Without, like, an official acknowledgment of Skrulls as a thing it is Everyone's New Favorite Hero Mysterio's word vs. SHAPESHIFTING ALIENS ARE REAL AND IMPERSONATED A KID FROM QUEENS AS SPIDER-MAN
N... no they're saying use the skrull now. Have a skrull be peter parker and stand next to spider-man and go "See they're not the same person!"
I don't think that really fixes anything though
Peter Parker being next to Spider-Man only works if Spidey takes his mask off and if you are having a Skrull be Peter Parker and Peter is still under the mask then that doesn't work unless you fuckin add a third layer of deception and have a Mission Impossible face mask under the mask or what have you and at that point it is ridiculously convoluted from a story perspective
Having Peter be next to a masked Spider-Man doesn't really do anything because folks could just easily go "okay you have someone pretending to be Spider-Man to cover for this kid, Mysterio wouldn't lie to me he saved us all"
I think the Spider-Man unmasking isn't something they are walking back
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
They're saying that they'd use a Skrull to be Peter when Spider-man was running around to disprove the claim, so having alien shapeshifters still be an unknown would be a benefit.
I mean not really because then it looks like a conspiracy theory
Like "X isn't the real person they are a reptilian alien shapeshifter" is a conspiracy theory on our Earth
I can't imagine how bonkers the MCU Conspiracy Theorist subculture is
Without, like, an official acknowledgment of Skrulls as a thing it is Everyone's New Favorite Hero Mysterio's word vs. SHAPESHIFTING ALIENS ARE REAL AND IMPERSONATED A KID FROM QUEENS AS SPIDER-MAN
N... no they're saying use the skrull now. Have a skrull be peter parker and stand next to spider-man and go "See they're not the same person!"
I don't think that really fixes anything though
Peter Parker being next to Spider-Man only works if Spidey takes his mask off and if you are having a Skrull be Peter Parker and Peter is still under the mask then that doesn't work unless you fuckin add a third layer of deception and have a Mission Impossible face mask under the mask or what have you and at that point it is ridiculously convoluted from a story perspective
Having Peter be next to a masked Spider-Man doesn't really do anything because folks could just easily go "okay you have someone pretending to be Spider-Man to cover for this kid, Mysterio wouldn't lie to me he saved us all"
Oh it's not a 100% fix but it's a very comic-booky easy out if they wanna have him still have a secret identity
I think the Spider-Man unmasking isn't something they are walking back
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
They're saying that they'd use a Skrull to be Peter when Spider-man was running around to disprove the claim, so having alien shapeshifters still be an unknown would be a benefit.
I mean not really because then it looks like a conspiracy theory
Like "X isn't the real person they are a reptilian alien shapeshifter" is a conspiracy theory on our Earth
I can't imagine how bonkers the MCU Conspiracy Theorist subculture is
Without, like, an official acknowledgment of Skrulls as a thing it is Everyone's New Favorite Hero Mysterio's word vs. SHAPESHIFTING ALIENS ARE REAL AND IMPERSONATED A KID FROM QUEENS AS SPIDER-MAN
N... no they're saying use the skrull now. Have a skrull be peter parker and stand next to spider-man and go "See they're not the same person!"
I don't think that really fixes anything though
Peter Parker being next to Spider-Man only works if Spidey takes his mask off and if you are having a Skrull be Peter Parker and Peter is still under the mask then that doesn't work unless you fuckin add a third layer of deception and have a Mission Impossible face mask under the mask or what have you and at that point it is ridiculously convoluted from a story perspective
Having Peter be next to a masked Spider-Man doesn't really do anything because folks could just easily go "okay you have someone pretending to be Spider-Man to cover for this kid, Mysterio wouldn't lie to me he saved us all"
And then Spider-Man jumps 20 feet in the air, latches a web onto the nearest building and swings away. Skrull Parker stares in wonderment as the cameras roll.
Clearly, that is Spider-Man because, unless they shipped in Night Monkey, regular humans can't do that.
Of course you'll have die hard conspiracy theorists sticking to their story, but for the majority of the people on the planet that would be sufficient to move on to the next crisis of the indefinite time period.
Part of this may just be that I want to see a Skrull struggling to make it through a few weeks in high-school as Parker without blowing his cover sky high.
Uh, you obviously have Spider-Man be real and do Spider-Man things and then have the Skrull get hit in the crotch with a football and start to cry and everyone feels bad they picked on this poor teenage nerd.
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
I like the idea of using Skrulls or Miles to walk it back because that was a really cool aspect of SpecSpidey— they outed him and then proved he couldn’t be Spidey, which eliminates him as a suspect going forward. It’s a neat thing of outing him actually being beneficial to keeping a secret identity in the long run
I don't think they would have done the outing if they had any hesitations about it or planned on walking it back
It is such a huge reveal to make and was made in such a dramatic fashion that undoing it in any signficant way will feel really unsatisfying as well as markedly un-Marvel Studios considering how far in advance they plan everything
It would be like Thor in Infinity War but amplified by like 50
BlankZoe on
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
I’d agree it would feel very unlike Marvel Studios, but so is the secret identity concept in the first place. We don’t really have a precedent for how they might employ, subvert, or play with it, because they outed Tony immediately and then never even attempted it with anyone else
Would people feel cheated? Maybe! I don’t know how interested people are in a famous Peter Parker. Might be a lot. I’m not terribly interested in it and the refreshing thing about these movies is the smaller high school setting compared to all the other MCU heroes
Alternative idea is that Peter is a public identity and we introduce Miles and/or Cindy as the new secret identity character. Would almost be like the covert ops to Peter’s more open heroics
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HeatwaveCome, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered Userregular
Oh shit I just had a thought about casting
Since they brought back JK Simmons for Jonah
What if they bring back Willem Daoe for Norman Osborn/Green Goblin.
He was great as the role in the original Spider-man film. Just needed a better costume and makeup.
You explain Spider-Man not unmasking himself by saying 'look at the hell you've put this Parker kid (who I've never met before) through, and you want me to take my mask off? Hey, remember when some guy said he was Iron Man, and a guy with electric whips tried to kill him?'
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
When the idea of introducing Norman or Harry Osborne is brought up, Watts doesn’t seem particularly interested, “Well, there are a lot of Spider-Man stories to tell and it’s just finding out the right time to tell them.” Which sounds like another way to say that we’ve seen Norman and Harry in four Spider-Man movies already.
They seem keen on avoiding any villains they’ve used before.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I think the Spider-Man unmasking isn't something they are walking back
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
They're saying that they'd use a Skrull to be Peter when Spider-man was running around to disprove the claim, so having alien shapeshifters still be an unknown would be a benefit.
I mean not really because then it looks like a conspiracy theory
Like "X isn't the real person they are a reptilian alien shapeshifter" is a conspiracy theory on our Earth
I can't imagine how bonkers the MCU Conspiracy Theorist subculture is
Without, like, an official acknowledgment of Skrulls as a thing it is Everyone's New Favorite Hero Mysterio's word vs. SHAPESHIFTING ALIENS ARE REAL AND IMPERSONATED A KID FROM QUEENS AS SPIDER-MAN
N... no they're saying use the skrull now. Have a skrull be peter parker and stand next to spider-man and go "See they're not the same person!"
I don't think that really fixes anything though
Peter Parker being next to Spider-Man only works if Spidey takes his mask off and if you are having a Skrull be Peter Parker and Peter is still under the mask then that doesn't work unless you fuckin add a third layer of deception and have a Mission Impossible face mask under the mask or what have you and at that point it is ridiculously convoluted from a story perspective
Having Peter be next to a masked Spider-Man doesn't really do anything because folks could just easily go "okay you have someone pretending to be Spider-Man to cover for this kid, Mysterio wouldn't lie to me he saved us all"
And then Spider-Man jumps 20 feet in the air, latches a web onto the nearest building and swings away. Skrull Parker stares in wonderment as the cameras roll.
Clearly, that is Spider-Man because, unless they shipped in Night Monkey, regular humans can't do that.
Of course you'll have die hard conspiracy theorists sticking to their story, but for the majority of the people on the planet that would be sufficient to move on to the next crisis of the indefinite time period.
Part of this may just be that I want to see a Skrull struggling to make it through a few weeks in high-school as Parker without blowing his cover sky high.
The whole Night Monkey cover ironically does make it difficult to do the “Spider-man + Skrull” because the nutters would just say “that’s Night monkey in the spiders-man suit”
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Uh, you obviously have Spider-Man be real and do Spider-Man things and then have the Skrull get hit in the crotch with a football and start to cry and everyone feels bad they picked on this poor teenage nerd.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The more I think about it, the more I'm fine with Peter getting unmasked. He lives in New York City, one of the most heavily photographed places on Earth, in the MCU which has super camera satellites and he's the "new Iron Man", so people are 100% gonna be working to sort that out. MJ sorted it out pretty quick, and funny as Night Monkey is, people are going to start putting two and two together pretty shortly.
I honestly feel like him keeping his identity secret is the bigger stretch at this point.
When the idea of introducing Norman or Harry Osborne is brought up, Watts doesn’t seem particularly interested, “Well, there are a lot of Spider-Man stories to tell and it’s just finding out the right time to tell them.” Which sounds like another way to say that we’ve seen Norman and Harry in four Spider-Man movies already.
They seem keen on avoiding any villains they’ve used before.
In fact both Jon Watts and the writers of FFH have mentioned Kraven as someone they are thinking of for a potential sequel
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JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
edited July 2019
Edit: never mind, fake news. Move along, citizens.
Jedoc on
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
When the idea of introducing Norman or Harry Osborne is brought up, Watts doesn’t seem particularly interested, “Well, there are a lot of Spider-Man stories to tell and it’s just finding out the right time to tell them.” Which sounds like another way to say that we’ve seen Norman and Harry in four Spider-Man movies already.
They seem keen on avoiding any villains they’ve used before.
Thinking on this some more— I’ve been torn on whether they were setting up Avengers Tower to become Oscorp or the Baxter Building, but I guess this quote points away from Oscorp
Could still be Alchemax or Horizon or something. Probably not the Bugle, given this iteration of it
Edit: never mind, fake news. Move along, citizens.
Aw, now I want to know what it was.
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JedocIn the scupperswith the staggers and jagsRegistered Userregular
I read a thing that said that Numan Acar appeared in the credits as Dmitri Smerdyakov, which fed into the Kraven rumors.
But it turns out that it was just "Dmitri," and the creators are being cagey about it, so I reckon they're keeping him around as a possible Chameleon depending on how the rest of the MCU develops around the Spider-Man films.
When the idea of introducing Norman or Harry Osborne is brought up, Watts doesn’t seem particularly interested, “Well, there are a lot of Spider-Man stories to tell and it’s just finding out the right time to tell them.” Which sounds like another way to say that we’ve seen Norman and Harry in four Spider-Man movies already.
They seem keen on avoiding any villains they’ve used before.
Thinking on this some more— I’ve been torn on whether they were setting up Avengers Tower to become Oscorp or the Baxter Building, but I guess this quote points away from Oscorp
Could still be Alchemax or Horizon or something. Probably not the Bugle, given this iteration of it
How about Bugle's fake news reporting inspires a wealthy hunter who lost his family in the Mysterio incident to become Kraven, hunting down Spider-Man in New York?
Don't know how it'd be best to go about becoming Kraven, IIRC his comic book form had some potion or something that gave him powers. I suppose if he got his hand on some of the Wakandan flower or something that could work to bring Black Panther into the story.
Maybe he could recover a Stark Tech suit and rebuild it with alien tech (got to be a bunch of each just laying around by this point), though that's getting a bit close to MCU Vulture territory, might be a good way to bring him into the story and tease Sinister Six.
Of course, this all assumes that Sony's not going to take their Spider-Ball and go home now that their five movie deal with the MCU has run it's course. I'm sure there are trucks full of lawyers and hats made of money wending their way across the country to hammer out a deal that will make the two studios just a tiny bit richer than they already are.
it's hard to unpack how i feel about this movie. i feel pretty comfortable in saying it was not as good as homecoming, for me. but i'd still say i was entertained overall.
+tom holland is still the best peter parker.
+jake gyllenhall was fantastic and i thought the way mysterio was done was pretty interesting and unexpected (not the part about him being the villain, but rather how/why he was).
+that mid credit scene might be the best they've had yet of all the marvel films. i hope so much that JK Simmons is actually in the next one and it wasn't just a fun cameo. i was always worried about how they'd do JJJ since JK Simmons was perfect. To see him back in the role actually makes me excited for the next one. plus peter having his identity revealed could go interesting places.
+zendaya is adorable and a solid choice for MJ. i was initially very worried about how contrived the romance plot would be when they introduced brad(?) or whatever his name was, but it was refreshing that there wasn't just a weird back and forth of misunderstandings and lies, that she just basically put together that he was spider man because it's pretty obvious if you think about it.
-most of the humor in the movie really didn't gel with me. it began to feel downright sitcom-like in places (literally everything with brad, including the painful 'wait this isn't what it looks like' scene). all of the stuff with ned and his girlfriend is also an example. which felt like just a reason to give ned a 'plot' and wasted his potential on something, anything more interesting.
-i also felt like the action scenes didn't have much.. personality to them. conceptually the idea with the drones and their holo-tech was smart, but nothing really had me going 'damn that was cool' this time around.
-this may be my first step into 'getting old' territory but the action/music was also too... loud? like, maybe the speakers in my theater were bad but i go there a lot and this was the first time where it was noticeable to the point of being distracting.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The ned plot was the most realistic part of the high school plot.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
peter being unmasked seems like a way of cutting through the bullshit. they've established at this point that it's actually super easy for pretty much anyone to figure out who spider-man is - the vulture works it out in about a minute just by asking a few pointed questions. it's clear they're not interested in doing the superhero comic thing where you just kind of handwave away the actual difficulty of living a double life. so at some point it's going to come out and you might as well just let it happen
i'm remembering now that homecoming had mac gargan show up - i guess it's pretty obvious that the third movie will have jjj make the scorpion. i hope they give michael mando a bit more to do than be a generic latino gangster bad guy, because he is typecast to shit in everything he does and i think it's broadly pretty racist. like in better call saul they had him play a cartel guy whose name was literally "nacho"? come on
Seems like there is a pretty clear divide between people who wanted this movie to be full on teenage romcom bullshit with some super heroics and those who did not.
Iron Man: Unmasks himself at the end of the first movie
Thor: Literally never had a second identity except as a throwaway joke in his first movie.
Captain America: Never had one, sometimes used a mask so he'd be less recognisable but kind of gave up on that towards the end.
Captain Marvel: Never needed one.
Black Widow: Secret-ish in the mundane way of real-world government operatives, but she doesn't try to actually live with a separate identity.
Hawkeye: Ditto.
Hulk: Not remotely secret.
Ant-Man: Still secret to the general public, but no one seems to be trying that hard to figure him out anyway.
Guardians of the Galaxy: Never used secret identities.
Black Panther: Not sure if still secret or not, but I'm leaning towards "not", since he's a king so his life is already as endangered/scrutinised as it's going to get.
Doctor Strange: Uses his real name but people might assume it's a pseudonym. AFAIK it's never actually been addressed whether the public knows his full name or if he gets recognised in his day-to-day life.
So yeah, aside from Ant Man and maybe Black Panther and Doctor Strange, Peter was the last significant hold-out on the secret identity front.
And honestly with Aunt May, MJ and Ned already in on the secret there is not much point
The whole core of the secret identity dynamic is living two lives and being unable to tell the folks in one about the other and the tension that creates
When all of Peter Parker's close friends and family know, then the only thing left is a nebulous "well bad guys might attack maybe" reasoning
And honestly with Aunt May, MJ and Ned already in on the secret there is not much point
The whole core of the secret identity dynamic is living two lives and being unable to tell the folks in one about the other and the tension that creates
When all of Peter Parker's close friends and family know, then the only thing left is a nebulous "well bad guys might attack maybe" reasoning
I think Spider-verse had a really good bead on why it's important, and threading that needle of making it a good point of tension instead of an annoying hindrance. I'm totally fine with the live action MCU movies shedding the idea. I just think it's really hard, and generally tiresome.
I'm thinking back on this movie and I just love all of it so much.
I still think I like the dynamic between Vulture and Peter than Mysterio and Peter, but it's super close. I'm more into Vulture's scumbum workaday criminal vibe.
When all of Peter Parker's close friends and family know, then the only thing left is a nebulous "well bad guys might attack maybe" reasoning
I'm guessing that's going to be the part that becomes a problem. Not Scorpion Yet already wanted to kill Spider-Man, he seems like the type to go after family and friends. Most of the other heroes at least have some degree of protection for their associates, or at least with the certain promise of vengeance if someone goes after Pepper or someone. Ant-Man's the exception, and shows why it might still be a good idea (two people went after his daughter. He killed one, and he's lucky that the other person who suggested it was immediately shut down by her accomplice).
I hope they don't try to retcon the identity reveal, but it did get me thinking; what if they tried to retcon it by doing One More Day? More than that, what if they somehow did it well? I don't think it's possible, but it would be oddly hilarious if it worked.
I do not understand why we are even talking about Marvel retconning the identity reveal. They didn't make that the after-credit scene without having at least a broad idea of where they were going with it.
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Satans..... hints.....
Fiege straight up said as much when talking about where they would go for a third film, saying that having an unmasked Peter is "something that hasn't been done in a Spider-Man movie before, which is very exciting".
And Skrulls aren't really an easy fix cause while the MCU is clearly aware of aliens and weird shit what with Thanos happening, I doubt the Skrulls are super well, if at all, known among the public and going "oh no it was this race of shapeshifting aliens that you didn't know about but are here now and wait no stop don't be terrified that they are secretly everywhere all the time where are you going" isn't a great sales pitch
Like if Mysterio had succeeded and Nick Fury morphed into a Skrull can you imagine the panic?
They're saying that they'd use a Skrull to be Peter when Spider-man was running around to disprove the claim, so having alien shapeshifters still be an unknown would be a benefit.
Like "X isn't the real person they are a reptilian alien shapeshifter" is a conspiracy theory on our Earth
I can't imagine how bonkers the MCU Conspiracy Theorist subculture is
Without, like, an official acknowledgment of Skrulls as a thing it is Everyone's New Favorite Hero Mysterio's word vs. SHAPESHIFTING ALIENS ARE REAL AND IMPERSONATED A KID FROM QUEENS AS SPIDER-MAN
I’m not so much complaining about aliens being in the movie, but more complaining about the lack of context of them just showing up and not really doing very much to forward the plot at all.
Satans..... hints.....
N... no they're saying use the skrull now. Have a skrull be peter parker and stand next to spider-man and go "See they're not the same person!"
Peter Parker being next to Spider-Man only works if Spidey takes his mask off and if you are having a Skrull be Peter Parker and Peter is still under the mask then that doesn't work unless you fuckin add a third layer of deception and have a Mission Impossible face mask under the mask or what have you and at that point it is ridiculously convoluted from a story perspective
Having Peter be next to a masked Spider-Man doesn't really do anything because folks could just easily go "okay you have someone pretending to be Spider-Man to cover for this kid, Mysterio wouldn't lie to me he saved us all"
Oh it's not a 100% fix but it's a very comic-booky easy out if they wanna have him still have a secret identity
And then Spider-Man jumps 20 feet in the air, latches a web onto the nearest building and swings away. Skrull Parker stares in wonderment as the cameras roll.
Clearly, that is Spider-Man because, unless they shipped in Night Monkey, regular humans can't do that.
Of course you'll have die hard conspiracy theorists sticking to their story, but for the majority of the people on the planet that would be sufficient to move on to the next crisis of the indefinite time period.
Part of this may just be that I want to see a Skrull struggling to make it through a few weeks in high-school as Parker without blowing his cover sky high.
It is such a huge reveal to make and was made in such a dramatic fashion that undoing it in any signficant way will feel really unsatisfying as well as markedly un-Marvel Studios considering how far in advance they plan everything
It would be like Thor in Infinity War but amplified by like 50
Would people feel cheated? Maybe! I don’t know how interested people are in a famous Peter Parker. Might be a lot. I’m not terribly interested in it and the refreshing thing about these movies is the smaller high school setting compared to all the other MCU heroes
Alternative idea is that Peter is a public identity and we introduce Miles and/or Cindy as the new secret identity character. Would almost be like the covert ops to Peter’s more open heroics
Since they brought back JK Simmons for Jonah
What if they bring back Willem Daoe for Norman Osborn/Green Goblin.
He was great as the role in the original Spider-man film. Just needed a better costume and makeup.
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They could— though I’ll admit I’ve got my own dream casting for Norman (Christopher Meloni)
Buuuut
They seem keen on avoiding any villains they’ve used before.
The whole Night Monkey cover ironically does make it difficult to do the “Spider-man + Skrull” because the nutters would just say “that’s Night monkey in the spiders-man suit”
Skrull Peter, "Oww, my..." checks notes, "penis really hurts!"
Skreeter.
Ah yes, Doug Funny's friend.
I honestly feel like him keeping his identity secret is the bigger stretch at this point.
Thinking on this some more— I’ve been torn on whether they were setting up Avengers Tower to become Oscorp or the Baxter Building, but I guess this quote points away from Oscorp
Could still be Alchemax or Horizon or something. Probably not the Bugle, given this iteration of it
Aw, now I want to know what it was.
But it turns out that it was just "Dmitri," and the creators are being cagey about it, so I reckon they're keeping him around as a possible Chameleon depending on how the rest of the MCU develops around the Spider-Man films.
So not fake so much as feverishly speculative.
How about Bugle's fake news reporting inspires a wealthy hunter who lost his family in the Mysterio incident to become Kraven, hunting down Spider-Man in New York?
Don't know how it'd be best to go about becoming Kraven, IIRC his comic book form had some potion or something that gave him powers. I suppose if he got his hand on some of the Wakandan flower or something that could work to bring Black Panther into the story.
Maybe he could recover a Stark Tech suit and rebuild it with alien tech (got to be a bunch of each just laying around by this point), though that's getting a bit close to MCU Vulture territory, might be a good way to bring him into the story and tease Sinister Six.
Of course, this all assumes that Sony's not going to take their Spider-Ball and go home now that their five movie deal with the MCU has run it's course. I'm sure there are trucks full of lawyers and hats made of money wending their way across the country to hammer out a deal that will make the two studios just a tiny bit richer than they already are.
+tom holland is still the best peter parker.
+jake gyllenhall was fantastic and i thought the way mysterio was done was pretty interesting and unexpected (not the part about him being the villain, but rather how/why he was).
+that mid credit scene might be the best they've had yet of all the marvel films. i hope so much that JK Simmons is actually in the next one and it wasn't just a fun cameo. i was always worried about how they'd do JJJ since JK Simmons was perfect. To see him back in the role actually makes me excited for the next one. plus peter having his identity revealed could go interesting places.
+zendaya is adorable and a solid choice for MJ. i was initially very worried about how contrived the romance plot would be when they introduced brad(?) or whatever his name was, but it was refreshing that there wasn't just a weird back and forth of misunderstandings and lies, that she just basically put together that he was spider man because it's pretty obvious if you think about it.
-most of the humor in the movie really didn't gel with me. it began to feel downright sitcom-like in places (literally everything with brad, including the painful 'wait this isn't what it looks like' scene). all of the stuff with ned and his girlfriend is also an example. which felt like just a reason to give ned a 'plot' and wasted his potential on something, anything more interesting.
-i also felt like the action scenes didn't have much.. personality to them. conceptually the idea with the drones and their holo-tech was smart, but nothing really had me going 'damn that was cool' this time around.
-this may be my first step into 'getting old' territory but the action/music was also too... loud? like, maybe the speakers in my theater were bad but i go there a lot and this was the first time where it was noticeable to the point of being distracting.
i'm remembering now that homecoming had mac gargan show up - i guess it's pretty obvious that the third movie will have jjj make the scorpion. i hope they give michael mando a bit more to do than be a generic latino gangster bad guy, because he is typecast to shit in everything he does and i think it's broadly pretty racist. like in better call saul they had him play a cartel guy whose name was literally "nacho"? come on
Iron Man: Unmasks himself at the end of the first movie
Thor: Literally never had a second identity except as a throwaway joke in his first movie.
Captain America: Never had one, sometimes used a mask so he'd be less recognisable but kind of gave up on that towards the end.
Captain Marvel: Never needed one.
Black Widow: Secret-ish in the mundane way of real-world government operatives, but she doesn't try to actually live with a separate identity.
Hawkeye: Ditto.
Hulk: Not remotely secret.
Ant-Man: Still secret to the general public, but no one seems to be trying that hard to figure him out anyway.
Guardians of the Galaxy: Never used secret identities.
Black Panther: Not sure if still secret or not, but I'm leaning towards "not", since he's a king so his life is already as endangered/scrutinised as it's going to get.
Doctor Strange: Uses his real name but people might assume it's a pseudonym. AFAIK it's never actually been addressed whether the public knows his full name or if he gets recognised in his day-to-day life.
So yeah, aside from Ant Man and maybe Black Panther and Doctor Strange, Peter was the last significant hold-out on the secret identity front.
The whole core of the secret identity dynamic is living two lives and being unable to tell the folks in one about the other and the tension that creates
When all of Peter Parker's close friends and family know, then the only thing left is a nebulous "well bad guys might attack maybe" reasoning
I think Spider-verse had a really good bead on why it's important, and threading that needle of making it a good point of tension instead of an annoying hindrance. I'm totally fine with the live action MCU movies shedding the idea. I just think it's really hard, and generally tiresome.
I still think I like the dynamic between Vulture and Peter than Mysterio and Peter, but it's super close. I'm more into Vulture's scumbum workaday criminal vibe.
I hope they don't try to retcon the identity reveal, but it did get me thinking; what if they tried to retcon it by doing One More Day? More than that, what if they somehow did it well? I don't think it's possible, but it would be oddly hilarious if it worked.