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[DnD 5E Discussion] This is the way 5E ends. Not with a bang but a gnome mindflayer.

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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I plan to have my next campaign heavily feature yuan-ti, and so far the hardest thing about it is trying to figure out ways their suggestion power should work.

    Here's a bit of the text for Suggestion:
    You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence a creature you can see within range that can hear and understand you. The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable.

    The suggested course of action can continue for the entire Duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do.

    You can also specify Conditions that will trigger a Special activity during the Duration. For example, you might suggest that a Knight give her Warhorse to the first Beggar she meets.

    Say for example some yuan-ti purebloods want to get some magic items from a shop. How could the purebloods' use of Suggestion affect things?

    - Could they use Suggestion to say "You should give us a discount on this item. We'll be more likely to be repeat customers and recommend your business to others"?
    - Could they use Suggestion to say "You should give us a discount on all the items we buy. We'll be more likely to be repeat customers and recommend your business to others"?
    - Could they use Suggestion to say "You should hand these items over to us. They're cursed, and we don't want a good person like you to come under their evil influence"?
    - Could they use Suggestion to say "You should help us load all your wares into our wagon to be relocated to a safe location. We know thieves are planning to ransack your business tonight and don't want your business to be ruined"?

    I guess perhaps the yuan-ti would have better chances at a Suggestion seeming reasonable if they had an established positive reputation or had spread rumors about cursed items or a planned robbery.

    Further, what defenses would a magic shop or individual seller have against magical manipulation?

    Those suggestions sound perfectly reasonable to me and... hey, wait a second! :rotate:

    But seriously, those sound good but get slightly less believable the farther down the list you go. But that seems fine to me, something like that last one might have a lower chance of actually working.

    As for magical defenses for the shop keep, I'd say it depends on who they are. Established magic item dealer? Probably at least got a thing or two around to protect against this sort of thing. Random street vendor that happens to have some magic stuff? Probably no defenses at all.

    JtgVX0H.png
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    I'm thinking I'm going to create sets of standard defenses based on the rarity of the items.

    Vendors of common magic items might have a guard. Vendors of rare items might have some guards, a veteran, and a mage in residence hired to recognize spells being cast and counter them, as well as cast alarm spells.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    No worries, Pirate Queen - hope it goes well!

    As for Suggestion - I think you'd have to be mad to use it on a shopkeeper who deals with magic.
    Anyone with the ritual magic feat can cast Detect Magic which would show that someone is charmed or casting spells in your shop and don't forget that Suggestion has vocal and somatic components. It's less neurolinguistic programming and more hypnotism like Ka does in Disney's Jungle book with a bit of a song and dance before you get to the actual suggested phrase itself.

    Easiest means of resisting this kind of thing is to have an assistant - reduces the chance you'll both be charmed at once (especially if one has elven heritage) and you'd see if the customer is casting a spell on the other one. If we're talking high value or dangerous items (the shop keeper knows what you're going to do with those material components) they'd probably have a guard too. If they're particularly paranoid, there might even be a third watcher behind a screen that the customer might not initially be aware of, alerted by the bell over the door ringing when they enter.

    It might sound a little over-complicated and paranoid at first - but really it's just the Shop owner and his wife working the floor and their kid watching from behind the curtain in safety.
    Or an apprentice who is learning the ropes of the business and a younger one who has just started training. Ritual magic feat doesn't seem too out of the way for someone who can read magic and work out what the material components would be.

    So if the Yuan-ti wanted to get things from the shop secretly, they need to do it a few steps removed - you'll be detected if you suggest the shop keeper, or send a suggested person to get the items for you. But you could suggest a rich merchant and have him send some guys to collect the items you want. A lot is going to depend on the nature of the items though, it definitely seems like a shop that would have some powerful friends, who might be more than willing to add to its defences in return for a discount (Even if the bread and butter of the shop's trade is selling small charms and hexes to gullible townsfolk. Love potions and luck charms etc, that might be a legitimate spell when performed by a skilled practitioner (and work in the shop, the detect magic spell also adding to the ambience as you see the glow settle on the target, but if you've gone for the cheaper option where it's just a written in regular inks so it's kind of worthless).

    But whilst the shop might be a fortress, the owners are still people and will need to leave to buy food and barter with merchants for the rarer items, so perhaps you could ambush someone outside of the shop and get them to open a back door for you or reveal a business partner who can then be charmed into getting them access.

    Or even use suggestion to cause a robbery targeting the items, and then the response to this is how you get in to carry out the real heist - or to stir up a mob against a witch selling charms that rivals have used to put you out of business, or steal your wives! Or perhaps flip the rules entirely and reveal yourselves to get one of the watchers inside sent to the mad house, claiming to see snake people everywhere even though witnesses assure the Watch/Guards (maybe even PCs) that they didn't see any 'snake people' and perhaps these visions are just from overexposure to various narcotic spices used in magic rituals. Let them see through the magic but then use your insidious cult to cover things up and avoid the consequences that would happen if it was just any old wizard trying a charm spell.

    It's also a lot easier to cast suggestion if your target is expecting you to cast a spell, just perhaps not that one. Especially if you've previously been introduced by a trusted acquaintance as someone who can help with these kinds of issues.

    Tastyfish on
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    I've already compiled these ideas for defenses for shops dealing in different item rarities:

    Common
    - Guards

    Uncommon
    - Guards, Veteran, Mage
    - Mages look out for evidence of spellcasting
    - Periodic checks to see if anyone is under a magical compulsion

    Rare
    - Guards, Veteran, Abjurer
    - Mages look out for evidence of spellcasting
    - Bestow curse if items touched by unapproved creatures
    - Periodic checks to see if anyone is under a magical compulsion
    - Alarm and Arcane Lock spells on apertures at night

    Very Rare
    - Dealer works in intermediaries to broker sales
    - Guards, Veterans, Abjurers, Golems
    - Mages look out for evidence of spellcasting
    - Guards are equipped with ways to see invisible intruders
    - Bestow curse if items touched by unapproved creatures
    - Leomund's Secret Chest
    - Periodic checks to see if anyone is under a magical compulsion
    - Alarm and Arcane Lock spells on apertures at night

    Legendary
    - Dealer works in intermediaries to broker sales
    - Guards, Veterans, Abjurers, Golems, Summoned Creatures
    - Mages look out for evidence of spellcasting
    - Guards are equipped with ways to see invisible intruders
    - Bestow curse if items touched by unapproved creatures
    - Leomund's Secret Chest
    - Periodic checks to see if anyone is under a magical compulsion
    - Alarm and Arcane Lock spells on apertures at night

    Hexmage-PA on
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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    The other thing to think about is how organised do you want this to be, are we talking powerful magic items on an industrial scale being sold openly and commercially?
    I'd have thought that most would be handled in the same way as precious gems and fine art - there's not shops or stalls, but instead these are in various vaults belonging to particularly powerful organisations.
    And viewings and sales are largely down via agents and brokers in order to make sure that you know who you're dealing with.

    But with the measures listed above, the human element is still the weakest link. Get one of your cultists into the organisation that vets guards, and turn part of the defences into an asset for you, use your suggestion and political powers to subvert one of the mages who casts the warding glyphs - no need for magical compulsions if you have their family held hostage, and then you can just walk through the wards and alarms without triggering them if you are included as one of the permitted creatures. Not to mention all the doors that being the Prince's mistress opens if you need to arrange a viewing or a purchase of some particularly beautiful or famous trinket.

    I think with Yuan-ti, I'd learn more towards the Lovecraftian Innsmouth or 40K Genestealer cults. They've certainly got the power to brute force their way through a problem to some degree, but the real power is that you don't know who you can trust or perhaps even that this was an issue. Someone who you have worked with in the past, might have their loyalties change and it's not going to necessarily be that obvious every time.

    Because security almost always has to run on trust at some level, and the cult knows that it can trust its members whilst subverting those outside, once the cult gets into an organisation it's ability to spread and subvert things relying on the secrecy and trust of their Security is almost trivial - the risk is just in getting caught before you've taken control or hobbled the organisations that would be tasked with dealing with you.

    Are you trying to work out where might be safe from the Yuan-ti, or working backwards to make an adventure where the PC's are working out how the Yuan'ti got away with a seemingly impossible heist (or is it a race between the PCs and the Cult)? Or is this just a bit of background detail to flesh out a highly magical kingdom - if the latter then a bunch of competing Guilds with exclusive contracts might be a fun thing to add into the mix. If you want the Abjuror's Guild to ward this place to this degree, you must have your guards hired from this company - however they have been selected for their willpower and resistance to charms, though perhaps at a cost of picking the most martial ones. But if you do pick those, you'll possibly gain the enmity of a rival Guild and woe betide the shop that thinks it can just hire unregistered mercs for magic and protection (like the PCs!).

    Hmm, I might have to think about adding a Yuan'ti chapter to my adventures.

    Tastyfish on
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    My yuan-ti focused campaign is going start in the Clovis Concord, the nation of the Menagerie Coast region of Wildemount. Explorer's Guide to Wildemount only really mentions a major presence of antagonistic yuan-ti in one city on the opposite side of the continent.

    The main power groups mentioned as being present in the Clovis Concord are:

    The Myriad - The primary organized crime syndicate of the entire continent of Wildemount. They have a heavy presence in many Concord cities, but especially Port Damali, where they pay off guards, merchants, and nobles to turn a blind eye to their activities, which include slave trading (as a consequence, Port Damali is the heart of the planet's slave trade).
    The Revelry - An organization of pirates that began thirty years ago when a group of merchants balked at rising taxes imposed by the Concord.
    The Zhelezo - The most prestigious fighting force of the Clovis Concord.

    There are also other factions of privateers and mercenaries.

    Now I'm trying to figure out how my yuan-ti faction, the Vanguard of Zannad, fits in. How they get their equipment, who they've had dealings with, what evidence there could be of yuan-ti subterfuge, etc.

    I imagine they would deal with and try to infiltrate the Myriad and the Zhelezo most of all. The Myriad could supply them with abducted people to use either as forced labor, food, or new ritually-created yuan-ti. I'd think the Vanguard would oppose the Revelry and search for their various treasure stashes to use to fund their own operations.

    The campaign could begin with the party investigating the activities of the Myriad and uncovering corruption among the Zhelezo and law enforcement only to eventually find evidence of the Vanguard's plans to conquer the Clovis Concord as the first step in their establishing a yuan-ti empire.

    There's also members of the powerful mage organization the Cerberus Academy that could be involved. Their headquarters is in the Dwendalian Empire and they have limited influence in the Clovis Concord, but there are Cerberus Academy agents operating on the coasts of Blightshore, which is close to the Vanguard's island city headquarters.

    In addition, I'd like to integrate the Shadowfell port city of Gloomwrought somehow. Though that raises the question of how a port city in the Shadowfell is getting any business. Does the Clovis Concord secretly know a way to transport ships from the material plane to the Shadowfell and back?

    Hexmage-PA on
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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    If it were me, I'd do it as two chapters separated by a good chunk of time. So you might encounter them right at the beginning, but not realise the full extent of how far they've spread until you return several levels and maybe even years later. Then you're trying to stop a cult bent on world domination, but you already know many of the key players.

    Perhaps have the first of the Yuan'ti come in as slaves seized by pirates from a vessel that might have been going to/from the city on the other side of the world. The pirates don't really know what to do slaves so offload them as soon as they can get a bit of coin for them, at which point an attractive pureblood within the shipment catches the eye of one of the slavers who takes her on as a serving/dancing girl.

    However, she is particularly compliant and lets slip that she used to work in the temple in her homelands so can read and write, so rises up through the ranks of this slaver's household servants to be in charge of various aspects of the business. Her master knows she has a few odd quirks, being an ex-priestess but she's effective enough that he's happy to let her have some dank room in the cellars to perform her ceremonies in, as long as it means he doesn't have to spend as much time going over the books and can just enjoy the highlife. He doesn't trust her though, and audits the books regularly but hasn't found anything out of the ordinary yet.

    She's known on the slave docks for being particularly charitable, often able to negotiate a good price by offering to take in 'low quality' slaves - the injured and old, and has a bit of a reputation amongst the slaves for doing her best to avoid placing vulnerable slaves with the harshest masters. Something that at first put her at odds with her own master, and risked her trusted position until she demonstrated the value that having a few 'invisible ears' amongst rival households has - being able to snatch up a few particularly valuable shipments of slaves on the speculative market using inside information.

    She might even use this reputation to reach out to the PCs, shortly after they arrive in the city and presumably set themselves at odds with the slavers. Ostensibly to help her set up an underground railroad for slaves in the city - her 'ceremony' room has a few bricks that can be removed which leads to the sewers, and whilst she has managed to get a few slaves out (a young maid from her own household who was pregnant, but her master hadn't yet realised, two children separated from their father on arriving at the docks and sold to another slaver, with instructions on how to get them to his sister who lives further down the coast - amongst a handful of others) the slavers of the Damali keep too close a watchful eye for her to move easily - not to mention her own master. But she has made a friend within the Myriad who is sympathetic to her cause.

    If the heroes can help him rise to the rank of ward captain (by helping with a few heists, dealing with some far more nefarious opposition and blackmailing a forger or port official), then they should be able to get a few of their allies, or even escaped slaves with forged papers, into positions where they can safely get hundreds of slaves out of the city - plus weapons, gems and magic into the city ready for the slave uprising.

    Of course, she neglects to mention that not all of the slaves that escape through her shrine make it to the outside world - and that some are given the dark sacrament, the potion of venom that turns them to Yuan'ti. Most are abominations and hide in the darkest parts of the sewer system, only summoned forth to assist in mysterious assassinations, but in time there should be more purebloods to take up the positions in the underground railroad...

    That way when the grand reveal of the Yuan'ti as a chapter/module's villains comes - the PCs already know that they are a shadowy cult that infiltrates other organisations but also they've got a head start on knowing where to look and what to look for, as they helped set this up! That should also get them a little more invested, rather than leaving the crime city to it's own devices, as this is fixing a problem they caused - or you might find you get to play around a bit with a cool recurring villain, if they decide that whilst ultimately the cult must be stopped, they will work with their erstwhile ally once last time to see the Slavers' grip on Port Damali ended - whilst keeping an eye on the cult. Perhaps at this point it seems more just like another criminal organisation too (especially as the slave revolt and railroad will have a lot of true believers and not just Yuan'ti), rather than revealing itself as being something more sinister.

    I do have a soft spot for secret cults.

    Tastyfish on
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    PirateQueenPirateQueen Registered User regular
    That is such a cool setup!
    I'd wanna play that!

    (and now I'm gonna stop procrastinating on this forum & go set things up for the crime one-shot X)

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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    I appreciate all the interesting ideas and thought that went into this. I'd have to adapt it quite a bit, though.

    Slavery is illegal throughout the Clovis Concord, but the Myriad's influence has led to the wealthy of Port Damali becoming particularly corrupt. I'm certain that the sheer extent of this corruption and the sheer number of slaves passing through the city would be a shock to the average citizen. As for the slaves themselves, Explorer's Guide to Wildemount notes that most of the slaves the Myriad trafficks in are themselves former members of Myriad cells that were deemed to have been incompetent.

    I guess perhaps some of these Myriad slaves could be yuan-ti who inflitrated the Myriad and caused their cells to intentionally fail so that they could have agents among both active Myriad members and their captives.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I plan to have my next campaign heavily feature yuan-ti, and so far the hardest thing about it is trying to figure out ways their suggestion power should work.

    Here's a bit of the text for Suggestion:
    You suggest a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two) and magically influence a creature you can see within range that can hear and understand you. The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable.

    The suggested course of action can continue for the entire Duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do.

    You can also specify Conditions that will trigger a Special activity during the Duration. For example, you might suggest that a Knight give her Warhorse to the first Beggar she meets.

    Say for example some yuan-ti purebloods want to get some magic items from a shop. How could the purebloods' use of Suggestion affect things?

    - Could they use Suggestion to say "You should give us a discount on this item. We'll be more likely to be repeat customers and recommend your business to others"?
    - Could they use Suggestion to say "You should give us a discount on all the items we buy. We'll be more likely to be repeat customers and recommend your business to others"?
    - Could they use Suggestion to say "You should hand these items over to us. They're cursed, and we don't want a good person like you to come under their evil influence"?
    - Could they use Suggestion to say "You should help us load all your wares into our wagon to be relocated to a safe location. We know thieves are planning to ransack your business tonight and don't want your business to be ruined"?

    I guess perhaps the yuan-ti would have better chances at a Suggestion seeming reasonable if they had an established positive reputation or had spread rumors about cursed items or a planned robbery.

    Further, what defenses would a magic shop or individual seller have against magical manipulation?

    Are the Yuan-Ti acting kind of like Mafia asking for protection? Because if there are then these suggestions sound a LOT more reasonable.

    Its also worth considering that so long as you don't use them on the player then they're less likely to cause an issue.

    A magical item vendor is likely to store their items off site, probably in some sort of magically time locked vault(that maybe requires two+ keys?). They might have some minor things on site but anything worth more than 100 gold will definitely be locked up well. Consider that skilled labor produces 2.5g of value per day so something that costs 900 gold is roughly a years wages for a skilled laborer. (it only represents 1/2 years worth of labor the other 1/2 year is the value of the raw materials that would have to be replaced). They also might have contracted for other spells and are likely skilled in some way themselves. They probably have paid security on site.

    A magical item worth 2,000 gold would have an equivalent value of about $130k (assuming $30 full time for 60k/year. well above median earnings. below per-capita earnings)

    Consider the case of a magical merchant that only sees people by appointment. They have at most one appointments per day and charge a small fee to see their catalogue. Before someone enters they're moved through a double locking vestibule (like you might find in a modern jewelry shop) secured on the inside by an arcane lock (lvl 2 spell until dispelled). Before the appointment a silence spell is cast on the vestibule (lvl 2 ritual, no cost). The shopkeeper has a written note informing people to please wait in the vestibule for a few minutes. They then use auguary (lvl 2 ritual or spell use, has GP cost this is what the appointment fee pays for) to ask "should i let these people in" after which they will receive a weal, woe, or weal/woe answer and not let them in on any woe. Because "You will be suggested and have someone steal $130k from you" is a "significantly bad outcome" you're pretty secure.

    Because the vestibule is silenced there is little risk of someone busting in before you've completed your augury. You can also speak the command word to let them in relatively freely because they will not be able to hear it in the silenced zone. Concerns are clairvoyance spying on your command word(as its invisible though see invisible fixes this its not easy), scrying (because its scrying), and of course subtle spell sorcerers because no one can beat a subtle spell sorcerer without a permanent antimagic field. Though a mook to pat them down before they enter the vestibule and make sure that they do not have a magic focus on them might help (this is because a subtle spell can only be perceived if it has a component and a magic focus removes the non-costed material components from a spell. But Dispel Magic has no material components and so they can freely walk past your arcane locks)

    This is a pretty decent hold and only requires a level 3 cleric in order to achieve so long as its acceptable for the shopkeeper to purchase the arcane lock spell from a wizard (this spell is permanent and so its just a one time thing). A level 3 cleric shouldn't be terribly uncommon in any setting that is going to have magic item shops. And/or a wizard that has specifically studied so that Augury(or an equivalent) is on their spell list. A 6th level lore Bard can also do this if they spend one of their lore spells on Augury. Higher level spellcasters have more tools at their disposal.

    This shop is pretty secure except from severe magical brute force attempts. And so should be pretty common in places where that isn't uncommon.

    Goumindong on
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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'm not that familiar with any of the official settings other than 2nd ed Planescape, but after a quick look at Wildemount, I guess the two most obvious ways I'd modify it would be either to switch slaves for those bound into the Myriad - so the underground railroad is more about letting people start a new life rather than being trapped in a gang, with a side business in getting people away from the reach of the Empire.

    Or relocate this to a smaller town a little way outside Port Damali - perhaps on a small island or belonging to some distant branch of Imperial nobility, technically independent as the link is via marriage but it's strong enough (and it's just far enough out) to keep the Concord's tax collectors and customs officials at bay. This then makes it a perfect meeting place for more illicit trade with a veneer of respectability that lets unscrupulous merchants from Port Damali get in contact with pirates from the Revelry, and profitable enough that they might even have their own villas on the island to take advantage of the looser laws. A wretched hive of scum and villainy that would shame even a citizen of Damali, but so lucrative that the merely corrupt Guildmasters and Patrician families worry that some amongst their number might be tempted to throw in with the Revelry and pull the city out of the Concord - and thus send the PCs to investigate? However it's ultimately the infiltration of Yuan'ti that is making these families more distant and less co-operative. With the Yuan'ti either brought back as 'servants' or converted from hirelings brought to the isle. Perhaps even an errant lordling was given a draught of venom, and was reborn as a Pureblood - they left as a feckless wastrel, a slave to carnal appetites but having slaked the thirst of youth in a Bacchanalia at the shifty uncle's villa outside of town, they have seemed to realised the rewards of hardwork and are now knuckling down and looking to get involved in the family business as much as possible. That friend he met over there is clearly a good influence, charming young fellow - no surprise that the young Lord Mafford's sister is so taken with him...and think of the powerhouse those two families would form if they were ever to put aside their differences.

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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm not that familiar with any of the official settings other than 2nd ed Planescape, but after a quick look at Wildemount, I guess the two most obvious ways I'd modify it would be either to switch slaves for those bound into the Myriad - so the underground railroad is more about letting people start a new life rather than being trapped in a gang, with a side business in getting people away from the reach of the Empire.

    Or relocate this to a smaller town a little way outside Port Damali - perhaps on a small island or belonging to some distant branch of Imperial nobility, technically independent as the link is via marriage but it's strong enough (and it's just far enough out) to keep the Concord's tax collectors and customs officials at bay. This then makes it a perfect meeting place for more illicit trade with a veneer of respectability that lets unscrupulous merchants from Port Damali get in contact with pirates from the Revelry, and profitable enough that they might even have their own villas on the island to take advantage of the looser laws. A wretched hive of scum and villainy that would shame even a citizen of Damali, but so lucrative that the merely corrupt Guildmasters and Patrician families worry that some amongst their number might be tempted to throw in with the Revelry and pull the city out of the Concord - and thus send the PCs to investigate? However it's ultimately the infiltration of Yuan'ti that is making these families more distant and less co-operative. With the Yuan'ti either brought back as 'servants' or converted from hirelings brought to the isle. Perhaps even an errant lordling was given a draught of venom, and was reborn as a Pureblood - they left as a feckless wastrel, a slave to carnal appetites but having slaked the thirst of youth in a Bacchanalia at the shifty uncle's villa outside of town, they have seemed to realised the rewards of hardwork and are now knuckling down and looking to get involved in the family business as much as possible. That friend he met over there is clearly a good influence, charming young fellow - no surprise that the young Lord Mafford's sister is so taken with him...and think of the powerhouse those two families would form if they were ever to put aside their differences.

    Man, I feel like I should pay you for the awesome advice!

    There are a few places mentioned along the Menagerie Coast that could work for this. For example, Palma Flora is mentioned as a small but idyllic tropical town where many of the wealthy (noble, merchant, and Zhelezo alike) go to relax and get away from the main cities of the Concord. Shady deals could be secretly taking place in private villas between Myriad and Revelry agents. Locals who resent the wealthy turning their home into a vacation destination might be claim to have seen or heard suspicious things around the various villas.

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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    Felt like sharing the statblocks I've come up with for the intended BBEG of my campaign, Seghulerak.

    This first statblock assumes that the party has thwarted all her plots for gaining personal power:
    Seghulerak, Base Potential
    Large Monstrosity (shapechanger, yuan-ti), chaotic evil

    Armor Class 18 (plate)
    Hit Points 225
    Speed 40 ft, flight 30 ft

    Str 19 (+4) Dex 16 (+3) Con 20 (+5) Int 17 (+3) Wis 22 (+6) Cha 19 (+4)

    Saving Throws Str +10, Wis +12
    Skills Deception +16, Insight +12, Intimidation + 16, Perception +11, Persuasion +16, Religion +9
    Damage Immunities poison
    Condition Immunities poisoned
    Senses darkvision 120 ft (penetrates magical darkness), passive Perception 21
    Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic

    Shapechanger. Seghulerak can use her action to polymorph into a Large constrictor snake, or back into her true form. Her statistics are the same in each form. Any equipment she is wearing or carrying isn’t transformed. She doesn’t change form if she dies.
    Claimed Soul. If Seghulerak dies her soul is claimed by Zehir and she cannot be restored to life unless he wills it.
    Flyby. Seghulerak doesn't provoke opportunity attacks when she flies out of an enemy's reach.
    Innate Spellcasting (Abomination Form Only). Seghulerak’s innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 18). Seghulerak can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:

    At will: animal friendship (snakes only)
    3/day: suggestion
    1/day: fear

    Magic Resistance. Seghulerak has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
    Spellcasting. Seghulerak is a 15th-level spellcaster. Her spellcasting ability is Wisdom (spell save DC 20, +12 to hit with spell attacks). Seghulerak has the following cleric spells prepared:

    Cantrips (at will): guidance, mending, resistance, thaumaturgy, toll the dead
    1st level (4 slots): bane, command, cure wounds, inflict wounds
    2nd level (3 slots): hold person, silence, spiritual weapon
    3rd level (3 slots): dispel magic, revivify, spirit guardians
    4th level (3 slots): banishment, death ward, stone shape
    5th level (3 slots): cloudkill, flame strike, raise dead
    6th level (2 slots): blade barrier, true seeing
    7th level (2 slots): divine word, plane shift
    8th level (1 slot): earthquake

    Actions
    Multiattack. Seghulerak makes three melee attacks, but can use her bite and constrict attacks only once each.
    Bite. Melee Weapon Attack. +10 to hit, reach 5 ft, one target. Hit: 1d6 + 4 piercing damage plus 3d6 poison damage.
    Constrict. Melee Weapon Attack. +10 to hit, reach 10 ft, one target. Hit: 2d6 + 4 bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 16) if it is a Large or smaller creature. Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and Seghulerak can’t restrict another target with constrict.
    Spiked Chain. Melee Weapon Attack. +10 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 2d6 + 4 piercing damage, and the target must succeed on a DC 16 Dexterity saving throw or suffer one additional effect of Seghulerak's choice:
    The target is grappled (escape DC 16) if it is a Medium or smaller creature. Until the grapple ends, the target is restrained, and Seghulerak can't grapple another target with her spiked chain.
    The target is knocked prone.
    The target must make a DC 16 Constitution saving throw, taking an additional 3d6 poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

    In this incarnation, Seghulerak has obtained three legendary items (the Book of Vile Darkness, the Lash of Shadows, and the Riteknife). Her marilith ally Zuvexus has given her the Serpentine Reaction demonic boon. Finally, a fallen solar loyal to Zehir named Avamiren has granted her two blessings as a reward for her excellence:
    Seghulerak, Full Potential
    Large Monstrosity (shapechanger, yuan-ti), chaotic evil

    Armor Class 19 (plate, artifact property)
    Hit Points 225
    Speed 40 ft, flight 30 ft

    Str 25 (+7) Dex 14 (+2) Con 20 (+5) Int 17 (+3) Wis 22 (+6) Cha 19 (+4)

    Saving Throws Str +13, Wis +12
    Skills Deception +16, Insight +12, Intimidation + 16, Perception +11, Persuasion +16, Religion +9
    Damage Resistances radiant
    Damage Immunities poison
    Condition Immunities blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, petrified, poisoned, stunned
    Senses darkvision 120 ft (penetrates magical darkness), passive Perception 21
    Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic

    Blessing of Strength. Seghulerak is treated as if she were attuned to a Belt of Fire Giant Strength.
    Blessing of Proof Against Detection and Location. Seghulerak is hidden from Divination magic. She can't be targeted by such magic or perceived through magical scrying sensors.
    Special Equipment. Seghulerak possesses the Book of Vile Darkness, the Lash of Shadows, and the Riteknife.
    Shapechanger. Seghulerak can use her action to polymorph into a Large constrictor snake, or back into her true form. Her statistics are the same in each form. Any equipment she is wearing or carrying isn’t transformed. She doesn’t change form if she dies.
    Claimed Soul. If Seghulerak dies her soul is claimed by Zehir and she cannot be restored to life unless he wills it.
    Dark Lore. Seghulerak doubles her proficiency bonus on any Intelligence check to recall information about some aspect of evil.
    Flyby. Seghulerak doesn't provoke opportunity attacks when she flies out of an enemy's reach.
    Innate Spellcasting (Abomination Form Only). Seghulerak’s innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 18). Seghulerak can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:

    At will: animal friendship (snakes only)
    3/day: suggestion
    1/day: fear

    Magic Resistance. Seghulerak has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.
    Mark of Darkness. Seghulerak has advantage on Charisma (Persuasion) checks made to interact with evil creatures and Charisma (Intimidation) checks made to interact with non-evil creatures.
    Restless Presence. Creatures cannot take short or long rests while within 300 feet of Seghulerak.
    Siphon Vitality. As a bonus action, Seghulerak can release any number of stored souls from her Riteknife to regain 1d10 hit points per soul released.
    Spellcasting. Seghulerak is a 15th-level spellcaster. Her spellcasting ability is Wisdom (spell save DC 20, +12 to hit with spell attacks). Seghulerak has the following cleric spells prepared:

    Cantrips (at will): guidance, mending, resistance, thaumaturgy, toll the dead
    1st level (4 slots): bane, command, cure wounds, inflict wounds
    2nd level (3 slots): hold person, silence, spiritual weapon
    3rd level (3 slots): dispel magic, revivify, spirit guardians
    4th level (3 slots): banishment, death ward, stone shape
    5th level (3 slots): cloudkill, flame strike, raise dead
    6th level (2 slots): blade barrier, true seeing
    7th level (2 slots): divine word, plane shift
    8th level (1 slot): earthquake

    Actions
    Multiattack. Seghulerak makes three melee attacks, but can use her bite and constrict attacks only once each.
    Bite. Melee Weapon Attack. +13 to hit, reach 5 ft, one target. Hit: 1d6 + 7 piercing damage plus 3d6 poison damage.
    Constrict. Melee Weapon Attack. +13 to hit, reach 10 ft, one target. Hit: 2d6 + 7 bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 21) if it is a Large or smaller creature. Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and Seghulerak can’t restrict another target.
    Lash of Shadows (Abomination Form Only). Melee Weapon Attack. +16 to hit, reach 10 ft, one target. 1d4 +10 piercing damage, and Seghulerak may choose to apply one of the following effects:
    1 - Serpent Venom. The target must make a DC 17 Constitution saving throw, taking an additional 3d6 poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
    2 - Dead Eyes. The target must make a DC 17 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned for 1 hour. While poisoned this way, the creature is blinded.
    3 - Ghoul’s Blood. The target must make a DC 17 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned for 1 minute. While poisoned this way, the creature is paralyzed. The creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself of a success.
    4 - Cockatrice Tears. The target must make a DC 17 Constitution saving throw or begin to turn to stone and is restrained. It must repeat the saving throw at the end of its next turn. On a success, the effect ends. On a failure, the creature is petrified for 24 hours.
    Riteknife (Abomination Form Only). Melee or Ranged Weapon Attack. +14 to hit, reach 5 ft or range 20/60 ft, one target. Hit: 1d4 + 8 piercing damage plus 1d4 necrotic damage for each soul stored within the Riteknife. Unless the Riteknife already has five stored souls within it, a creature slain by an attack using the Riteknife has its soul imprisoned inside the dagger, and that creature can be restored to life only by a wish spell.
    Command Evil (1/day). While holding the Book of Vile Darkness, Seghulerak can use an action to cast dominate monster on an evil target (save DC 18).
    Dark Speech. Seghulerak takes 1d12 psychic damage, and each non-evil creature within 15 feet of Seghulerak takes 3d6 psychic damage.
    Snake Antipathy (Recharge 6). Seghulerak targets a creature she can see within 60 feet of her. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw (save DC 18) or feel an intense urge to avoid snakes and snakelike creatures, as if affected by the antipathy effect of an antipathy/sympathy spell.
    Reactions
    Annihilation (If Five Stored Souls are in the Riteknife). As a reaction immediately after Seghulerak hits a creature with the Riteknife and deals damage to the target, she can release all five souls. If the target now has fewer than 75 hit points, it must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or die. If the target dies, Seghulerak cannot use this property again until she finishes a long rest.
    Serpentine Reaction. Seghulerak has an extra reaction each round, but it can only be used to make an opportunity attack.

    Legendary Actions
    Seghulerak can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. Seghulerak regains spent legendary actions at the start of her turn.
    Attack. Seghulerak makes a melee attack.
    Cast a Spell (Costs 2 Actions). Seghulerak casts a spell.
    Dark Speech. Seghulerak uses Dark Speech.

    Hexmage-PA on
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    PirateQueenPirateQueen Registered User regular
    Crime one-shot went great! : )

    Largely due to excellent advice from @Tastyfish to simplify and and think of it as a 5-trap dungeon

    PCs solved the crime & had an epic fight with the killer in under 4 hours

    I cut out most of the red herrings & narrowed the suspect pool by making some of them obviously incompetent
    I mean, who would keep this in their own room for anyone to find? Surely not the actual meticulous and competent murderer
    behipi8g7z8e.jpg

    So, thanks @Tastyfish for saving my session (& saving my players from boredom)

    I have to agree 100% with this:
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Man, I feel like I should pay you for the awesome advice!

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Crosspostin':

    Further terror incognita bits: Monferrina Undead!

    So, the city of Monferrina has a massive undead population. Many centuries ago when the Aeternum Empire first made landfall and started carving up the continent for themselves, they burned the forest homes of the Oldblood human tribes, driving them to the south. The Ogres were enslaved where the Aeternum could (horrible elitists that they are, they found the Ogres's raw might to be of value... and that was about it), or likewise killed off. The Oldblood used their links to the Faerie to escape where they could, or failed and were cut down, while the Ogres traveled via their river trade routes and the inland sea.

    Most failed. Those that did escape found themselves unprepared to survive in the rain-forest and swamps of southern terror incognita, and suffered further losses.

    That should have been the end of it - The oldblood humans all but extinct, their culture shattered. The Ogres tribes scatted, driven from their homeland.

    Should have been the end of it.

    But the swamps and rain-forests of Monferrina are alive. So, so alive that they throb with a magic all of their own. When the Aeternum Empire tried to burn their way in, to claim yet more land, this land fought back - trees would smother the flames, swamps and rivers would flood suddenly to extinguish fires. The wildlife went berserk, Aeternum legions reporting tales of decimation by giant leopards, strange feathered lizards and colossal snakes or worse. The Aeternum Empire invasion of southern terror incongita was stopped dead in its tracks, the empire turning to fortifying its new lands, spreading across the rest of the continent.

    And deep in the heart of the swamp, the waters began to stir.

    Oldblood fae magic used to escape mixed with the Ogre plant magic as the Ogres Tribes began to try and build new homes. It resonated with the accreting memories of the fallen, their rage and pain at the invaders - and echoed the rage and pain of Aeternum slaves who had been killed for their master's amusements. All of this coming together, fed by the sheer vibrancy of life of the swamp and jungle.. and two and half centuries to the day after the Oldblood genocide ended, the first Undead emerged from the swamp.

    Some were bog bodies, mummified by the waters of the swamp, hair replaced by curtains of moss, and swamp weeds. Some were skeletal, vines twining their way through the bones, joining and reinforcing these. Some were ethereal, half-substantial, ghostly flowers emerging from the wounds that had killed them. Most were former oldblooded humans, some were former Aeternum slaves, a few were even Ogres. United, they were a force that founded the free city of Monferrina together with the surviving Ogres and Oldblooded humans... and then went to war with the Aeternum Empire, liberating slaves and proving to be one of the major contributing factors to it's downfall.

    ---

    So that's the basic history of them!

    Other thoughts that aren't quite as organize,d but give more details:
    • Average height of 1.8 meters
    • Despite their undead seeming nature, they still need to eat, and they have a lifespan. It's a second life, not immortality. Likewise, they're able to be healed through normal methods, and the more ghostly members can still be hurt by normal means, even if they get to walk through walls on occasion.
    • Life span is probably in the 60-ish year range, connected to the strange plants woven throughout them
    • They mostly retain memories of who they were in their first life, but often have very different views or persepctive on events (What with the whole... not having the same biochemistry anymore and jazz. turns out that's important, who knew?). This all seems to be tied into Terror Incognita's strange memorystuffeffects. (I name things good)
    • Much more limited need to sleep, which keeps Monferrina bustling at all hours.
    • Undead continue to emerge from the swamp across the centuries. Monferrina has a tradition of burying their fallen in the swamp which seems to contribute to this.
    • They sing a lot, play music a lot, etc. It's a cultural "Fuck you, we're free" thing.
    • There's no guarantee any given person will get a second life - strong emotions and unfinished business, dying in the prime of your life all seem to increase the odds, but it's not guaranteed by any means. The undead also only emerge in the swamp - no one's sure why.
    • There's also not a guarantee on when an undead pops up relative to when they died. Which sometimes leads to new born Undead being a couple of centuries out of date. Culture shock!
    • They really, really, really hate slavery
    • In modern times, the Undead are dispora drawn from all the races currnetly on Terror Incognita.

    ---

    I'm still figuring out who the undead are culturally, and i think to a degree, they are too in universe. My timeline is still pretty fuzzy - I know the Aeternum Empire invaded and conquered Terror Incongita, grew to it's height of power, and crumbled within a span of about 400 years total. Given Terror Incognita is a much bigger chunk of land than the real roman empire ruled, this seems okay timeline wise. I also know that they invaded during the end of a Changing Tide era. It's possible that Monferrina and it's undead didn't emerge until 2-3 centuries after. Infact, i think i like that more, so i've gone and changed that (it was a century to the day, rather than 2 and 1/2 centuries to the day).

    (My current thinking is that the Aeternum empire started out as an extension of another empire across the waves, but quickly turned into it's own thing due to distance and navigational difficulties + plenty of opportunistic bastards. Sort of a Roman Republic -> Roman Empire thing crossed with American Independence?)

    I know the changing tides/shifting winds come on about a rough-ish 300 year cycle - reaching their peak, subsiding, reach the depths of a lull period, and then increasing back. Sine wave basically! i know the current timeline of events is when the CT/SW is starting to be felt once more.

    Which would put things approx 600 years from when the Aeternum first invaded. Which feels roughly right - Fantasy settings are real weird often about having huge stretches of nothing happen historically speaking, and while i do want to have a chunk of distance between then and now, my original time scale was over a millennia long - i think cutting 400 odd years out is the right move.

    Point is, they may not have had that long relatively speaking since they were constantly on a war footing, and then they got traumatized by a plague sweeping through and killing off most of the freed slaves. Though, that's still what, two centuries ago? I need to think on this more, that's a chunky period of time.

    Side note: ( need a much, much shorter name for this effect - poetic as it is, it takes too long to write out The Changing Tides and Shifting Winds every fucking time. Perhaps The Roil, or the Ripple?, thoughts?

    ---

    Also implicitly i'm extending out the weird memory shennagins of Terror Incongita to be more than just connected to the Roil, because given the stuff i've written about Dungeons and some of people like @Tastyfish wonderful suggestions, there's some cooler stuff that can be done with having memory-pearls and other stuff pop up. The idea that events could leave such an impact they create a dungeon or lead to strange new life like the Monferrina Undead is Preddy Cool in my opinion.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    in my curse of strahd game the party has arranged for fiona wachter and victor vallakovich to be married, neither of them want that, but since they're both prisoners they've agreed to it

    I'm not sure how i feel about that, but on the other hand, both of them are really scummy people and the aim is to reduce unrest, with the added benefit that neither of them will want anything to do with each other so they'll just do whatever they were going to do anyway, victor can futz with magic while fiona runs the town

    they had a lot of persuading to do for Fiona since when everyone found her husband's body she was exiled for that, and her husband's body cremated much to her dismay, but the party convinced everyone that it was actually the burgomaster framing her and (along with staging an imp to burst through the burgomaster's chest like an Alien) convinced the nobility of the beleaguered town that he was the devils all along

    they also almost burned down the orphanage but thankfully after asking "Are you sure" TWICE to the wizard she realized that fireballs are in fact made of fire and decided on a less destructive spell

    override367 on
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    I wish it was easier to find larger miniatures. I ordered one called "Lilith" from Etsy to represent the demon lord Oublivae cause it was the closest match to her official design I could find, but...

    g5xvukzzm9up.jpg

    She's so short! Oublivae is supposed to be about 30 feet tall!

    73q12incmjtr.png

    I'm not sure I could justify gluing a Large-sized base on this lady!

    EDIT: I also kind of want to alter her tail a bit to make it more sinuous but am afraid to ruin it.

    Hexmage-PA on
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Do we need to ask the mods to merge these threads?

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Do we need to ask the mods to merge these threads?
    Which threads in particular? There are a couple tagged as dnd-5e that are play by post games, but aren't really for general discussion of the game or setting.


    In other topics, I've got a DM question.
    How do you balance between building interesting encounters for your players, and not railroading them into participating in the encounters?
    As an example, I had a mysterious wizard tower show up in the middle of the desert, figuring that a mysterious magic tower that appeared suddenly in the middle of a desert and is surrounded by a moat of unreality is the kind of thing that adventurers would want to check out.
    Apparently I was too descriptive while describing the ominous nature of the tower, because all three of the players wanted to get back on the wagon and leave the tower far behind them. Not having anything else prepared but not wanting to end the night, when they turned to leave the tower I told them that they were surrounded by nearly featureless white field, their wagon and supplies nowhere in sight. The only thing that they could see was another distant tower to the east matching the existing tower. The only way out was through the tower. Now I'm feeling kind of bad about railroading my players into the PacMan dungeon.

    I had built the tower and built some encounters in Roll20. Should I have just put that back in the folder and winged it for the rest of the session? Some random desert creature encounters rolled from a table or something?
    I can only imagine how frustrating it would be for a GM to put time into building an actual dungeon (as opposed to stealing a map off reddit and loading it into Roll20), only to have the party shrug and say "nah, we'd really rather not go into the "Dungeon of a Thousand Screaming Spiders" thanks, how far's the next town?

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    PirateQueenPirateQueen Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    I shamelessly use stuff players want to lure them into dungeons and other dangerous situations

    E.g. at the next town, NPCs say "Wow, there's a rumor of a huge, amazing treasure in that tower in the desert" (for the greedy players)

    Or "Oh no, my puppy ran off into that evil tower" (for the heroes)

    Or "All the hottest half-elf concubines are in that tower. Definitely. Seen 'em myself."

    Overall, I think you absolutely made the right choice to use the good materials you prepared (I know people who can improv a whole session, but that's such a risk). Hope it went well!

    I like how you showed players "two towers" so they could still make a choice

    I love doing that as a DM (sometimes players think they had 100 choices and never realise they've been railroaded > : )

    TBH as a player I don't mind being railroaded as long as it's a fun session

    PirateQueen on
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    I shamelessly use stuff players want to lure them into dungeons and other dangerous situations

    E.g. at the next town, NPCs say "Wow, there's a rumor of a huge, amazing treasure in that tower in the desert" (for the greedy players)

    Or "Oh no, my puppy ran off into that evil tower" (for the heroes)

    Or "All the hottest half-elf concubines are in that tower. Definitely. Seen 'em myself."

    Overall, I think you absolutely made the right choice to use the good materials you prepared (I know people who can improv a whole session, but that's such a risk). Hope it went well!

    I like how you showed players "two towers" so they could still make a choice

    I love doing that as a DM (sometimes players think they had 100 choices and never realise they've been railroaded > : )

    TBH as a player I don't mind being railroaded as long as it's a fun session
    I did the shamelessly baiting players to get them into the Arena prior to the tower. Knowing the artistic tastes of one of the players and promising her a magic crossbow (+1) that trailed the bolt with silver and purple sparkles was sufficient there.

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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Do we need to ask the mods to merge these threads?
    Which threads in particular? There are a couple tagged as dnd-5e that are play by post games, but aren't really for general discussion of the game or setting.

    This one and the SE one, where I've seen no less than 3 people post literally the exact same thing, multiple times each.

    I'm not specifically complaining about any one person doing it, it's just frustrating to go "oh! New pos- deja vu?!" over and over.

    I'm.just being an old, grumbling out loud

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    I think it's best to always try and end a session with a clear idea of where the players are going next and what their plan is. It's also good to have an alternative encounter idea.

    You could also have cheated and had them leave the tower behind to find a cave holding the encounter you'd planned for the tower.

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    see317 wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    In other topics, I've got a DM question.
    How do you balance between building interesting encounters for your players, and not railroading them into participating in the encounters?
    As an example, I had a mysterious wizard tower show up in the middle of the desert, figuring that a mysterious magic tower that appeared suddenly in the middle of a desert and is surrounded by a moat of unreality is the kind of thing that adventurers would want to check out.
    Apparently I was too descriptive while describing the ominous nature of the tower, because all three of the players wanted to get back on the wagon and leave the tower far behind them. Not having anything else prepared but not wanting to end the night, when they turned to leave the tower I told them that they were surrounded by nearly featureless white field, their wagon and supplies nowhere in sight. The only thing that they could see was another distant tower to the east matching the existing tower. The only way out was through the tower. Now I'm feeling kind of bad about railroading my players into the PacMan dungeon.

    A lot depends on your style and experience of DMing. I'd did a lot way back in the day when I was DM'ing for mine and my brother's friends at school, and have recently got back into it over the past few years - and the resources and analysis of this out there now are incredible. One of the really obvious things that I'd never thought of before is that DM'ing genuinely is a creative pursuit and not that different from a regular author or script writer, other than the fact that it's generally your first draft that your audience sees and they're also your editors!

    With that in mind, there seems to be two main camps that writers fall into - you're either the planner or the one that wings it (or more realistically somewhere between the two - all D&D is improv, after all).

    Now in an honest assessment of myself, I think I lean more towards the planner but I think you can easily get spoiled in this regard when playing D&D as a child with siblings, as the world building is probably something you've done together outside of the game as much as in it. But with a less connected group of friends that aren't interested in fleshing out the world ahead of the games, I do wonder if it is a bit of a trap.

    World building is amazing fun, and probably my favourite bit of the game, hence why I love this thread so much - I love that feeling when someone's thought of this crazy idea and your mind can just run with it and go "well, how would that work?" But at the same time, if I've got an amazing picture of what this scene will be like in my head - the perfect cinematic moment where the heroes triumph or the BBEG finally reveals himself, I've now got the translate that idea into a short paragraph of text that contains some choices for the PCs to make and hope they've picked up on some clues I've given before hand, then hope that all of that feeds into the cinematic showdown in their heads so we're all roughly on the same page. Trying to write murder mysteries is a prime example - the solution is easy when you've got all the pieces in front of you and know what happened!

    The alternative at the opposite extreme is just flying by the seat of your pants and relying on random number tables to basically have a procedurally generated dungeon, held loosely together by a narrative weaved by the DM.
    The PCs at least then get to do what they want - but lets not forget the number one rule of D&D "We're all here to have fun!", and the DM is as much a player as a the PCs! Assuming you're not an employee of a DM for hire company that recently popped up on my Facebook (*shivers*).

    I think the key thing is to not worry about railroading characters at the beginning if it's a new group. If you've all played before, then at character creation you want to get involved as the DM saying "this is the story you guys are in, how does this effect your characters?". The players need to own the story as much as you do, and if you're really luck (and say live/work with one who's really into this stuff) get them to help fill out the world too. Have a rough skeleton of the plot and world you want to set up, but have a Plan B for each element. You've got your heart set on a big showdown in a thunder-wracked ruin atop an extinct volcano at the end of chapter 1? Cool - but be ready to switch between lizardmen and orcs if one of the players picks the other and has an idea for their background. The players will probably have an idea of what stuff is in the world that influences their character, so use that and look for anything that might tie those threads together. Don't hesitate to suggest stuff to them in between sessions to (especially if you've got the DM voice down so that you can given them two options knowing that 70% of the time they'll recognise one of them as being a trap!) and then let that feed into why they want to do things.

    As you might have seen from the stuff I've said in the past, I started to think of my campaigns as being split into chapters - never did this before when I was younger (other than incorporating a lot of modules into campaigns, and the Planescape adventure books tended to have you drop in and out every few levels in some cases) but now I'm thinking of either something I want to do, i.e take a random mix of dudes and turn them into Heroes of the Realm or somewhere to spend a bit of time doing a certain kind of adventure (bit of city intrigue, more classic dungeon crawl in the wilds, a survival maze in some alien environment). For the first chapter, if you've not got an established group that are all in on your setting, just keep it light at first and have an idea of where you might want it to go. J.J Abrams "Mystery Box" style of writing gets a lot of flak in movies and series etc, but here it is genius. Use the stuff that went well, ditch the stuff that no one noticed and see what you're left with at the end. All it needs to do is point to a Chapter 2 location and theme, and be written down somewhere so you can tie things in when you've got time.
    Have a vague idea of theme, and the sort of adventure you want them to, but leave the details til you're closer.

    On a similar note, and to actually answer your question - have a mysterious wilds adventure in your back pocket with some hint at consequences. A massive difference between people who played D&D before the year 2000 and those that have come afterwards, is that the former found video games that tried to capture the feeling of the RPG, whilst after that things are different - and most importantly, the idea of the sandbox is a lot more common and there's a set of story missions and side quests, and you're rewarded for not doing the story missions with XP and loot! On top of this, humans are naturally perverse and many players delight in seeing if they can push the DM in a direction they weren't planning (and often you've been too obtuse in your puzzles and mysteries). But if you've got a back up plan that you can just flawlessly default to (switching out monsters as appropriate, swapping cave walls for a thick forest with paths etc), it doesn't look like they've gone off book and so you can still have fun with an adventure - but it'll come at some obvious cost that puts some time pressure to them now rushing through the next/originally planned dungeon. It's not a mistake they'll make twice, unless something particularly cool happens that makes that the main plot now.

    Players dicking about outside a dungeon eventually just means you've got a few extra nights off to think more about the cool stuff to do later, as next session is covered!

    I might post a write up of my current campaign in the next few weeks, as it's been really eye-opening and I've learnt a lot as we've been able to get regular sessions in over Roll20 during the quarantine, that kind of want battlemats. And the story of how the story has changed is as mad as the stuff that's happened. We're going to hit the chapter 1 finale over the next couple of weeks hopefully so there shouldn't be the risk of spoilers to my PCs.

    Tastyfish on
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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I think it's best to always try and end a session with a clear idea of where the players are going next and what their plan is. It's also good to have an alternative encounter idea.

    You could also have cheated and had them leave the tower behind to find a cave holding the encounter you'd planned for the tower.

    I wrote a lot of words to say this.

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    doomybeardoomybear Hi People Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    <other stuff>

    She's so short! Oublivae is supposed to be about 30 feet tall!

    73q12incmjtr.png

    <other words>

    Sorry, the scale was so off in this picture I had to correct it!

    How it is in the picture above:
    m3u3rlK.png
    That lady's only 14 feet tall!

    What a 30 foot tall lady scale should look like:
    [3ZYj2UJ.png
    There we go!

    what a happy day it is
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    So as a creative side project I am designing some major NPCs for the Eberron campaign setting.

    They are primarily amalgam style superheroes, as adapted into the Eberron setting.

    First up, Bryce d'Deneith, blind merchant-lord for House Deneith and shadowy vigilante of Sharn, the Crimson Scourge.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    doomybear wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    <other stuff>

    She's so short! Oublivae is supposed to be about 30 feet tall!

    73q12incmjtr.png

    <other words>

    Sorry, the scale was so off in this picture I had to correct it!

    How it is in the picture above:
    m3u3rlK.png
    That lady's only 14 feet tall!

    What a 30 foot tall lady scale should look like:
    [3ZYj2UJ.png
    There we go!

    Doubt you'll get a mini that size, maybe find a Barbie and stick some modeling clay on her if the scale is that important.

    steam_sig.png
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2020
    So I got a one-shot coming up this Friday and I was wanting a multiclass combo that would really be wild. The DM is having us roll new level 4 characters or use an old character and level them to 4, plus we get one bonus feat. I was thinking level 3 echo knight and level 1 war cleric. I'd get some cantrips, couple spells like divine favor to increase my damage or some heals, and I could use that domain's feature where whenever I attack I can attack again as a bonus action, plus I'd still be able to do all my echo knight shenanigans. Any thoughts?

    edit: also, what would be a good race that would pair nicely? This one-shot is being run by the DM that enjoys trying to murder the shit out of us, so I'm looking less for flavor and more for being mechanically broken. :rotate:

    Darmak on
    JtgVX0H.png
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I'd just purchase a Barbie-like doll from a dollar store and do a controlled burn on the doll.

    That'd probably be the best prop to represent what you are going for.

    Just a scorched Barbie doll.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    So I got a one-shot coming up this Friday and I was wanting a multiclass combo that would really be wild. The DM is having us roll new level 4 characters or use an old character and level them to 4, plus we get one bonus feat. I was thinking level 3 echo knight and level 1 war cleric. I'd get some cantrips, couple spells like divine favor to increase my damage or some heals, and I could use that domain's feature where whenever I attack I can attack again as a bonus action, plus I'd still be able to do all my echo knight shenanigans. Any thoughts?

    edit: also, what would be a good race that would pair nicely? This one-shot is being run by the DM that enjoys trying to murder the shit out of us, so I'm looking less for flavor and more for being mechanically broken. :rotate:

    I mean, the classic Bahroken is the paladinlock, innit? You could go 1 paladin/3 lock so you can take like, Hexblade + weapon pact, and just goto town.

    But i dunno! Your concept sounds cool, and uh, healing sounds necessary!

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    So as a creative side project I am designing some major NPCs for the Eberron campaign setting.

    They are primarily amalgam style superheroes, as adapted into the Eberron setting.

    First up, Bryce d'Deneith, blind merchant-lord for House Deneith and shadowy vigilante of Sharn, the Crimson Scourge Rouge Rogue.

    ftfy

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
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    override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    I gotta plan for curse of strahd next week, the girls in the party took the tween vampire girl that I was expecting to be destroyed by sunlight, but players have laser guided plan ruining missiles, on a girls day out in vallaki, keeping her from killing anyone and getting her a makeover. Being a druid from the wintersplinter tribe, wasn't exactly keen on this, and is horrified to be put through this indignity. Hair washing? Linen clothing?!. The party's rogue ordered her to go along with it, and he's a vampire, so she had to listen, but she isn't happy about it

    Arabelle also hates the vampire girl with the fury only a spoiled 8 year old who sees someone else receiving gifts from the party can muster. Going into a whining fit and reminding them that Wizard killed her father and they're responsible for her, and demanding fancy clothes too. The vampire lunged at her and she used a portent dice to make the vampire miss entirely before the ladies broke the two up, reminding arabelle that the vampire also lost her parents, and her life, and the vampire that she was under orders from a higher vampire to behave

    They're going to be so sad when Strahd casually destroys her if he sees her, none of those vampire spawns were meant to stick around, they were just fodder. Rogue has indicated he might have guessed how Strahd will react if he sees the party has taken responsibility for this creature, so they might engage in an elaborate plot to keep Strahd none the wiser

    at present the vampire girl they found in buckskin clothes with a fur cloak and a bag of homemade possessions with matted dreads is now dressed like snow white and hates this even more than the curse of undeath

    override367 on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Do we need to ask the mods to merge these threads?
    Which threads in particular? There are a couple tagged as dnd-5e that are play by post games, but aren't really for general discussion of the game or setting.

    This one and the SE one, where I've seen no less than 3 people post literally the exact same thing, multiple times each.

    I'm not specifically complaining about any one person doing it, it's just frustrating to go "oh! New pos- deja vu?!" over and over.

    I'm.just being an old, grumbling out loud

    Given i've been oen of those people - Apologies! I've mostly been trying to get as many eyes on my world building stuff as possible, because i am dread undead engine powdered by feedback. Would it be helpful if i kept them contained to one thread, and just created a "Hey, there's More Setting Details over 'ere" post in theo tehr with a link?

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I'd just purchase a Barbie-like doll from a dollar store and do a controlled burn on the doll.

    That'd probably be the best prop to represent what you are going for.

    Just a scorched Barbie doll.

    ...

    I'll settle for smol Oublivae, I guess.

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    evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Do we need to ask the mods to merge these threads?
    Which threads in particular? There are a couple tagged as dnd-5e that are play by post games, but aren't really for general discussion of the game or setting.


    In other topics, I've got a DM question.
    How do you balance between building interesting encounters for your players, and not railroading them into participating in the encounters?
    As an example, I had a mysterious wizard tower show up in the middle of the desert, figuring that a mysterious magic tower that appeared suddenly in the middle of a desert and is surrounded by a moat of unreality is the kind of thing that adventurers would want to check out.
    Apparently I was too descriptive while describing the ominous nature of the tower, because all three of the players wanted to get back on the wagon and leave the tower far behind them. Not having anything else prepared but not wanting to end the night, when they turned to leave the tower I told them that they were surrounded by nearly featureless white field, their wagon and supplies nowhere in sight. The only thing that they could see was another distant tower to the east matching the existing tower. The only way out was through the tower. Now I'm feeling kind of bad about railroading my players into the PacMan dungeon.

    I had built the tower and built some encounters in Roll20. Should I have just put that back in the folder and winged it for the rest of the session? Some random desert creature encounters rolled from a table or something?
    I can only imagine how frustrating it would be for a GM to put time into building an actual dungeon (as opposed to stealing a map off reddit and loading it into Roll20), only to have the party shrug and say "nah, we'd really rather not go into the "Dungeon of a Thousand Screaming Spiders" thanks, how far's the next town?

    I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL.

    Superficially, you can blame this on yourself for being a lousy dm. To be clear, I don't think this is the case: we all have other things that need to be done, very few DMs can invest 20+ hours of prep a week. Assuming your players aren't dicking you around, I think that this boils down to a communication failure: this was the main content for the evening, it wasn't an optional "here be death!" dungeon.

    I think the solution lies in just stopping the session for a minute and telling your players what your deal is. You need to decide whether the session would be possible and fun for you if you were to improvise everything (meaning you can use the dungeon at a later date!) or if the players need to run that dungeon. I think that this can help sessions in the future because everyone is voicing what they're thinking: you're assuming your narration of the tower drove them away, but maybe it wasn't that.
    I not so recently learned my players assume I'm always out to kill them. I mean it's sort of true but not really, so now I'm trying to narrate stuff in such a way that the scene is rather obviously missing a superhero to swoop in and save the day. Now they aren't dodging my death traps as much! ;D

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    My initial instinct at that point would be to flip the tower map upside down, and suddenly there's a very vertical dungeon they need to navigate - maybe the only way to get down a massive cliff is to climb down an artificial tunnel dug by previous navigators, which happens to have been colonised by monsters

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    XagarXagar Registered User regular
    To add to the "quantum scene/encounter/NPC/dungeon" suggestions above, I almost always add some sort of time pressure in, which moves the story along at a good pace, and adds meaning to player choice, since there's never enough time to do everything. When doing this, there always needs to be at least one thing that happened offscreen that you can bring up later.

    e.g. You're at the party, who do you talk to? Your relative? The big shot? The bad guy you're here to investigate? Do you mingle? Make a scene? Then, once everybody has chosen something to do, time passes, and you're at the next scene. For an encounter, I like to prepare at 2-3 encounters beforehand, and the players will choose one, knowingly or unknowingly, with what they do in the session.

    Note that some people really do not like this, so you'll probably want to play your cards pretty close to the chest on this one, especially during the session.

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    PirateQueenPirateQueen Registered User regular
    That sounds like a great way to improve pacing @Xagar !

    Could you please give an example of this?
    Xagar wrote: »
    When doing this, there always needs to be at least one thing that happened offscreen that you can bring up later.

    (I'm blatantly stealing all you guys' cool ideas for my next session, hope you don't mind X)

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    XagarXagar Registered User regular
    Usually, I have a few sets of characters that each are doing a thing at a certain place and at a certain time. If the players are there already, they will get a chance to see them. If they missed them all, I'll have the effects show up later, maybe as someone commenting on it. It's actually kind of hard to come up with an example cold, since I usually ad-lib something in response to what the player was doing.

    Here's a simple one, in the session I'm running tonight, two characters will be colluding to poison a guest at a meal. If the players are present in the kitchens (which I will offer as an option), they will get a chance to make a roll to notice it. Same at the meal itself, with different or more difficult rolls. At the same time the kitchen stuff is going on, another different set of characters will be secretly unsealing a gate. Will the players be in the gardens in the early afternoon to see it? I don't know, but I will have the players make a low DC roll and notice that they're missing from the scene. They can ask them about it later if they want, or not.

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