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I get all of the arguments about the Deplorable State of Cinema Today, and in an academic sense, I more or less agree. However, on a personal level:
I really like Marvel movies. They're a lot of fun, and the MCU is neat.
Star Wars movies, and the property in general, is in much better shape now than it was 20 years ago.
Pixar and Disney are making consistently good animated films, and I don't really give two shits about the soulless live action movies, since I can just not watch them.
There are already more movies in theaters than I have the time or money to see, and the ones that show up tend to be the kind that benefits from a big screen.
There are a ton of smaller movies across a variety of genres that I can get at through various streaming services, or rent through Amazon Prime.
So again, while i respect the arguments about how indies have to just show their films on streaming platforms instead of in theaters, and how Disney is our corporate overlord, on a personal level, as a big fan of movies, things pretty much couldn't be better. I have a huge variety of great stuff to choose from that covers the entire spectrum of my tastes. And if we have a slow year, I have access to a massive film backlog stretching back half a century.
"Things are great, but what if they were even greater?" is not super compelling.
Things look great to you because you enjoy the one particular flavour that Disney has, it is a popular flavour, but it shouldnt be the ONLY flavour that exists anywhere, and Disney, as the evil monster that it is, has and will continue to destroy anything that isnt Disney.
I understand you like Disney, but "Fuck you got mine" is as good an answer as "capitalists will capitalist".
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
Marvel's direction is nothing special that I've ever seen. It's mostly just very very generic. They hired directors that were cheap and that they could control and few of them really did anything interesting during their tenures with the MCU.
Their casting is top notch but let's not pretend like they were looking for hot indie talent. They were looking for cheap. They wanted nice cheap actors and within that framework whoever they had doing that job found a lot of under-valued talent. The casting director for the MCU absolutely deserves like an oscar or something.
It’s come up before but the MCU has one casting director - Sarah Finn. She’s done it since Iron Man and casting RDJ.
/googles Sarah Finn
Jesus christ. Someone pay that women a billion dollars then, she's the fucking Mozart of casting directors.
I liked the idea that (because of Ford's age) the timeline had moved on so Indy was fighting Soviets, and the lead Soviet is Cate Blanchett in full-on scenery-chewing form.
Fate of Atlantis was right there begging to be made into a film. Charlatans.
Reminder: Frank Darabont wrote an Indy 4 script about Atlantis, but it was rejected because Lucas insisted that they had to do this specific alien story.
EDIT: Upon further research, that is not actually true. Darabont did write a Crystal Skull script that was supposedly very good which Lucas rejected, but it was not Atlantis based. Never mind!
If I could press a button to get rid of the MCU and put all that money into making original movies with new ideas I would in a heartbeat. With the exception of Black Panther probably
Thank god that button doesnt exist.
MCU has been a fantastically bright point in the lives of millions of people. Created traditions, an entire generation has grown up with excellent hero stories and it has been awesome.
So sorry you dont like them, but a lot of people really do. And the entire MCU is an original idea. Literally no one else has been able to pull that off.
And well made original ideas can still make tons of money.
See: John Wick.
Ninjeff on
+18
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Well! She puts in a stronger performance than Arnold does. It's the new good n' bad time travellers that carry the movie. Grace and Rev9 are fuckin' awesome.
If I could press a button to get rid of the MCU and put all that money into making original movies with new ideas I would in a heartbeat. With the exception of Black Panther probably
Thank god that button doesnt exist.
MCU has been a fantastically bright point in the lives of millions of people. Created traditions, an entire generation has grown up with excellent hero stories and it has been awesome.
So sorry you dont like them, but a lot of people really do. And the entire MCU is an original idea. Literally no one else has been able to pull that off.
And well made original ideas can still make tons of money.
See: John Wick.
I much prefer the MCU to, say, the 80s and 90s action staple of "white male sociopath kills all." The MCU didn't crowd out the next Scorsese. It displaced Die Hard retreads and made Rambo into a one week at the theaters and off to streaming non-event.
+5
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
The Rev9 guy wasn't bad, but nowhere close to Robert Patrick. Davis' Grace was very solid.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
If I could press a button to get rid of the MCU and put all that money into making original movies with new ideas I would in a heartbeat. With the exception of Black Panther probably
Thank god that button doesnt exist.
MCU has been a fantastically bright point in the lives of millions of people. Created traditions, an entire generation has grown up with excellent hero stories and it has been awesome.
So sorry you dont like them, but a lot of people really do. And the entire MCU is an original idea. Literally no one else has been able to pull that off.
And well made original ideas can still make tons of money.
See: John Wick.
The only new thing that the MCU brought to the table, is the scope, the budgets were bigger, and the sequels planned far longer into the future. Everything else has already been done, the stories have already been told, the characters were already known.
So yeah, a bunch of Producers and Accountants managed a great feat with the MCU, and made an incredibly popular entretainment product fit for mass consumption. Nothing more, and nothing less.
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
I understand why people are reflexively nervous about the level of success and power Disney currently has. Any time a single entity grows into a juggernaut, we are trained to be fearful because, you know, what if they decide to use their powers for evil?
The truth is, whether you like it or not, Disney is the definition of American culture. By hook or by crook, they are America now. They control the zeitgeist and have done so not by coercion, or violence, but by providing joy.
This is where I find myself torn.
I like Disney movies, they bring me joy, so I pay for them
I like Star Wars movies, they bring me joy, so I pay for them
I like Marvel movies, they bring me joy, so I pay for them
Feeling like I have a societal obligation to not enjoy these things because the entity that creates them has become too powerful is an extremely difficult sell! Feeling like I have to convince myself that the things that I enjoy are somehow wrong (because they're mass-marketed or because they're formulaic or because they fund a massive conglomerate) feels like a personal attack on my character.
Just because I like Marvel movies doesn't mean I'm somehow flawed or unable to objectively criticize a movie all of a sudden. Oppressive, obscure, arthouse-type independent movies don't bring me joy. I can appreciate the importance of artful cinema without necessarily having to consume it. I do not appreciate being made to feel that because I didn't enjoy some critically acclaimed movies that I'm somehow unqualified to disagree with an acclaimed filmmaker. My joy is not a fault. Nor is it artificial. A massive conglomerate having figured out how to bring the maximum amount of entertainment to a maximum amount of people is not a bad thing in and of itself, even if it does mean that such a conglomerate gets to massively profit from having figured out that aspect of human psychology.
This isn't some shitty microtransaction pay-to-win video game-style scam they're pulling off, it's just good business! A company having its finger on the pulse of the global culture it seeks to cater to and using that ability to profit isn't an evil in and of itself, it's simply cleverness.
Does the possibility exist that Disney may choose to, one day, abuse the massive power it has accumulated for itself. Yeah, we can't discount that, but there's a reason anti-trust laws don't outright outlaw monopolies, they only outlaw abuse of dominant power. Being successful, by itself, shouldn't be punished. Using success to artificially manipulate the market in your favor though, should. Now, if there's evidence that Disney is abusing its power to keep new entrants from competing, then fine, let's hear it and have a case brought before the FTC, but until then, I'm going to choose not to worry about it.
3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
+4
AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
edited November 2019
You can be impressed at the business acumen of Ray Kroc taking a small fast food company and turning it into McDonald’s, and you can also enjoy eating at McDonald’s, and you can recognize that too much McDonald’s is bad for you, and you can recognize that McDonald’s overall success and industry impact is a net negative for society. You can do all of those things at once!
Astaereth on
+17
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
If I could press a button to get rid of the MCU and put all that money into making original movies with new ideas I would in a heartbeat. With the exception of Black Panther probably
Thank god that button doesnt exist.
MCU has been a fantastically bright point in the lives of millions of people. Created traditions, an entire generation has grown up with excellent hero stories and it has been awesome.
So sorry you dont like them, but a lot of people really do. And the entire MCU is an original idea. Literally no one else has been able to pull that off.
And well made original ideas can still make tons of money.
See: John Wick.
The only new thing that the MCU brought to the table, is the scope, the budgets were bigger, and the sequels planned far longer into the future. Everything else has already been done, the stories have already been told, the characters were already known.
So yeah, a bunch of Producers and Accountants managed a great feat with the MCU, and made an incredibly popular entretainment product fit for mass consumption. Nothing more, and nothing less.
Lol man, those accountants really did a bang up job with all the CGI, acting, writing, directing, plotting, and scripting.
Oh there were other people? Nah fuck all their hard work, I have a point to make on a forum about movies I hate.
+7
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
You can be impressed at the business acumen of Ray Kroc taking a small fast food company and turning it into McDonald’s, and you can also enjoy eating at McDonald’s, and you can recognize that too much McDonald’s is bad for you, and you can recognize that McDonald’s overall success and industry impact is a net negative for society. You can do all of those things at once!
Yeah but that's not the same thing
Marvel blew up because the films were consistently competently made instead of utter garbage like just about every action movie from 2000 to 2008, and 95% of the ones before then.
You can be impressed at the business acumen of Ray Kroc taking a small fast food company and turning it into McDonald’s, and you can also enjoy eating at McDonald’s, and you can recognize that too much McDonald’s is bad for you, and you can recognize that McDonald’s overall success and industry impact is a net negative for society. You can do all of those things at once!
Yeah but that's not the same thing
Marvel blew up because the films were consistently competently made instead of utter garbage like just about every action movie from 2000 to 2008, and 95% of the ones before then.
The directing and action scenes in the Marvel films are pretty pedestrian, with some exceptions. The secret to Marvel films is that they invest a lot of time and attention to character work. It's not just that they are well cast, but they allow the actors and scriptwriters to invest depth and complexity into their characters that makes them interesting to follow over the course of multiple films.
The Marvel movies were not "consistently competently made" until a few movies in. Movies #2 and #3 were bad, and movie #4 was either bad or mediocre, depending on who you ask. Marvel blew up for the same reason Transformers and other stuff blew up: effects driven movies that are bland enough not to piss off China or any other foreign market and which aren't rated R and so the whole family can see them = big $$$.
You can be impressed at the business acumen of Ray Kroc taking a small fast food company and turning it into McDonald’s, and you can also enjoy eating at McDonald’s, and you can recognize that too much McDonald’s is bad for you, and you can recognize that McDonald’s overall success and industry impact is a net negative for society. You can do all of those things at once!
McDonald's food has a measurable bad effect on human health. The food is bad for you and can harm you if consumed too regularly. Society has a responsibility to protect its members from harm. McDonald's can cause harm.
The same cannot be said for (most) Disney products as far as I'm aware. Unless you have measurable evidence to provide that Disney's output causes an actual (instead of theoretical/hypothetical) harm, please let us know.
For the record, as already discussed in this thread, the argument that "Disney harms the independent film space" is not conclusively proven, and even if it were true, I do not believe that that amounts to the same level of harm done than that of McDonald's food.
The Marvel movies were not "consistently competently made" until a few movies in. Movies #2 and #3 were bad, and movie #4 was either bad or mediocre, depending on who you ask. Marvel blew up for the same reason Transformers and other stuff blew up: effects driven movies that are bland enough not to piss off China or any other foreign market and which aren't rated R and so the whole family can see them = big $$$.
Which is why the Transformers films were major cultural moments...
The idea that Marvel's films are secretly bad, but the mass audience is to ignorant to recognize this, is dumb. They make great use of their actors and connect with audiences through this.
+7
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
The Marvel movies were not "consistently competently made" until a few movies in. Movies #2 and #3 were bad, and movie #4 was either bad or mediocre, depending on who you ask. Marvel blew up for the same reason Transformers and other stuff blew up: effects driven movies that are bland enough not to piss off China or any other foreign market and which aren't rated R and so the whole family can see them = big $$$.
I mean, they were competent. Even IM2 was a better than average action movie for its time, but disappointing compared to the original. None of them lived up to the first Iron Man which, I'll remind, blew people away when it came out.
And was China even really that big a deal 10 years ago? Their movie market has only recently been a driving force.
You can be impressed at the business acumen of Ray Kroc taking a small fast food company and turning it into McDonald’s, and you can also enjoy eating at McDonald’s, and you can recognize that too much McDonald’s is bad for you, and you can recognize that McDonald’s overall success and industry impact is a net negative for society. You can do all of those things at once!
McDonald's food has a measurable bad effect on human health. The food is bad for you and can harm you if consumed too regularly. Society has a responsibility to protect its members from harm. McDonald's can cause harm.
The same cannot be said for (most) Disney products as far as I'm aware. Unless you have measurable evidence to provide that Disney's output causes an actual (instead of theoretical/hypothetical) harm, please let us know.
For the record, as already discussed in this thread, the argument that "Disney harms the independent film space" is not conclusively proven, and even if it were true, I do not believe that that amounts to the same level of harm done than that of McDonald's food.
I generally consider the Marvel action scenes to be pretty darn good, but that might be because so many other movies have horrible action sequences.
At their best, like in the Ant-Man movies, they are fun and inventive. At their worst, they are at least easy to follow.
Their main drawback is that, since they are often done by a specialized second unit filling in for the films' directors, they sacrifice inventiveness for consistency.
I think they've improved, but generally there's still no comparison between the vast majority of Marvel action scenes and John Wick or Fury Road. However, action in Marvel movies is elevated by the characters and the audience's engagement with them.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
+5
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I think they've improved, but generally there's still no comparison between the vast majority of Marvel action scenes and John Wick or Fury Road. However, action in Marvel movies is elevated by the characters and the audience's engagement with them.
I mean
There's not a lot that compares to Fury Road anywhere.
You can be impressed at the business acumen of Ray Kroc taking a small fast food company and turning it into McDonald’s, and you can also enjoy eating at McDonald’s, and you can recognize that too much McDonald’s is bad for you, and you can recognize that McDonald’s overall success and industry impact is a net negative for society. You can do all of those things at once!
McDonald's food has a measurable bad effect on human health. The food is bad for you and can harm you if consumed too regularly. Society has a responsibility to protect its members from harm. McDonald's can cause harm.
The same cannot be said for (most) Disney products as far as I'm aware. Unless you have measurable evidence to provide that Disney's output causes an actual (instead of theoretical/hypothetical) harm, please let us know.
For the record, as already discussed in this thread, the argument that "Disney harms the independent film space" is not conclusively proven, and even if it were true, I do not believe that that amounts to the same level of harm done than that of McDonald's food.
I’m not even that sure that McDonalds is that bad health wise, having watched SuperSize Me the main takeaway I had was people should stop drinking carbonated corn syrup.
And is Marvel / Disney really crowding out all the Independent films? I mean several times a year everyone is gushing about some new masterpieces like Get Out or The Favourite, Midsummer and now The Lighthouse.
With the prevalence of 4K TV and home surround sound systems, it seems like the only movies that truly rely on the theatre experience are the big action blockbusters that people are denigrating. So it makes sense that the more savvy consumers are going to blockbusters at the theatre and experiencing the moody atmospheric movies at home.
I think they've improved, but generally there's still no comparison between the vast majority of Marvel action scenes and John Wick or Fury Road. However, action in Marvel movies is elevated by the characters and the audience's engagement with them.
I mean
There's not a lot that compares to Fury Road anywhere.
George Miller has been one of the best action directors in the industry for 40 years now. Masters always make everyone else look bad.
But think of all the original stories of those early 2000s action movies that we got!
They had such great stories that I can think of many of them off the top of my head and not only manage like...the first Bourne movie was then right? And like...the first F&F movie? Uh, what other action movies were there? Also what were the compelling stories that have been crowded out?
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Look back at early 2000s action movies. They were absolute messes of shakycam, bad CG and worse cinematography.
Absolutely weightless wire fighting, etc.
Marvel films spoiled people, I think, and I'm honestly sure they just don't remember how bad action films were for the longest.
More Charlie's Angels, less Winter Soldier.
Like try to watch one of the first 3 bourne movies now. You'll get motion sickness from the action sequences
Like the Transporter movies got progressively dumber and harder to follow, 300 is problematic but was p inventive with the action shots, the Nolanbats aren't exactly what I would call well-filmed action, Kill Bill is p great, and I really like Minority Report and Hot Fuzz.
But the decade is rather drab, especially the first half. Just woof.
But think of all the original stories of those early 2000s action movies that we got!
They had such great stories that I can think of many of them off the top of my head and not only manage like...the first Bourne movie was then right? And like...the first F&F movie? Uh, what other action movies were there? Also what were the compelling stories that have been crowded out?
You can be impressed at the business acumen of Ray Kroc taking a small fast food company and turning it into McDonald’s, and you can also enjoy eating at McDonald’s, and you can recognize that too much McDonald’s is bad for you, and you can recognize that McDonald’s overall success and industry impact is a net negative for society. You can do all of those things at once!
McDonald's food has a measurable bad effect on human health. The food is bad for you and can harm you if consumed too regularly. Society has a responsibility to protect its members from harm. McDonald's can cause harm.
The same cannot be said for (most) Disney products as far as I'm aware. Unless you have measurable evidence to provide that Disney's output causes an actual (instead of theoretical/hypothetical) harm, please let us know.
For the record, as already discussed in this thread, the argument that "Disney harms the independent film space" is not conclusively proven, and even if it were true, I do not believe that that amounts to the same level of harm done than that of McDonald's food.
I’m not even that sure that McDonalds is that bad health wise, having watched SuperSize Me the main takeaway I had was people should stop drinking carbonated corn syrup.
And is Marvel / Disney really crowding out all the Independent films? I mean several times a year everyone is gushing about some new masterpieces like Get Out or The Favourite, Midsummer and now The Lighthouse.
With the prevalence of 4K TV and home surround sound systems, it seems like the only movies that truly rely on the theatre experience are the big action blockbusters that people are denigrating. So it makes sense that the more savvy consumers are going to blockbusters at the theatre and experiencing the moody atmospheric movies at home.
A lot of this argument revolves around the 70s generation of directors ideological worship of the cinema experience. Modern audiences didn't pick up the love thanks to affordable home theater technology, and it's honestly only the blockbuster experience that keeps movie theaters in business. They don't consider a film released on Netflix to be inferior to one playing at the local arthouse theater.
It's the same worldview that used to separate TV into such an inferior category that it was seen as a sign of career death when a film actor had to stoop to take a TV role. Today, when everyone wants to work on or create a prestige TV series, those old lines barely make sense anymore.
+2
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
But think of all the original stories of those early 2000s action movies that we got!
They had such great stories that I can think of many of them off the top of my head and not only manage like...the first Bourne movie was then right? And like...the first F&F movie? Uh, what other action movies were there? Also what were the compelling stories that have been crowded out?
The amazing worldbuilding of Stealth!
Don't forget the matchup we've all been waiting for with Ballistic: Ecks vs Sever.
I think they've improved, but generally there's still no comparison between the vast majority of Marvel action scenes and John Wick or Fury Road. However, action in Marvel movies is elevated by the characters and the audience's engagement with them.
I mean
There's not a lot that compares to Fury Road anywhere.
George Miller has been one of the best action directors in the industry for 40 years now. Masters always make everyone else look bad.
In the intervening 40ish years between Mad Max movies though, all he directed and wrote was light, family-friendly fare.
The same guy who gave us ripping the face off someone with a towhook also gave us Babe. And Happy Feet.
Some of the most popular marvel movies have absolutely garbage action sequences.
They're successful because they star characters who were selected over fifty years of darwininian comic book industry writing (Iron Man, Cap etc are all good character, the ones from that time that weren't are gone and forgotten), they are very well cast, they were very well marketed, the initial movies were good enough to develop a powerful following (Iron Man being genuinely pretty great essentially allowed the MCU to exist) and they are designed to be very accessible and enjoyable by anyone.
But think of all the original stories of those early 2000s action movies that we got!
They had such great stories that I can think of many of them off the top of my head and not only manage like...the first Bourne movie was then right? And like...the first F&F movie? Uh, what other action movies were there? Also what were the compelling stories that have been crowded out?
The decade after the creative explosion of 1999 was pretty universally disappointing. The national mood after 9/11, especially, led to a lot of safe choices and stifled creativity. There were great films, of course, but it wasn't a great time to be into movies overall.
Posts
Things look great to you because you enjoy the one particular flavour that Disney has, it is a popular flavour, but it shouldnt be the ONLY flavour that exists anywhere, and Disney, as the evil monster that it is, has and will continue to destroy anything that isnt Disney.
I understand you like Disney, but "Fuck you got mine" is as good an answer as "capitalists will capitalist".
What if the aliens are Nazis?
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Somehow it managed to waste both those things.
Steam | XBL
Rewatched Terminator 1, and it's such a perfect film, especially the closed loop. And I love the Future War stuff, I forgot how much it had.
I hope Linda Hamilton is half as great in Dark Fate as she is in T1, but I'm not optimistic.
That said, a game set in T1's world a la Alien Isolation would be amazing.
Reminder: Frank Darabont wrote an Indy 4 script about Atlantis, but it was rejected because Lucas insisted that they had to do this specific alien story.
EDIT: Upon further research, that is not actually true. Darabont did write a Crystal Skull script that was supposedly very good which Lucas rejected, but it was not Atlantis based. Never mind!
Thank god that button doesnt exist.
MCU has been a fantastically bright point in the lives of millions of people. Created traditions, an entire generation has grown up with excellent hero stories and it has been awesome.
So sorry you dont like them, but a lot of people really do. And the entire MCU is an original idea. Literally no one else has been able to pull that off.
And well made original ideas can still make tons of money.
See: John Wick.
I much prefer the MCU to, say, the 80s and 90s action staple of "white male sociopath kills all." The MCU didn't crowd out the next Scorsese. It displaced Die Hard retreads and made Rambo into a one week at the theaters and off to streaming non-event.
The only new thing that the MCU brought to the table, is the scope, the budgets were bigger, and the sequels planned far longer into the future. Everything else has already been done, the stories have already been told, the characters were already known.
So yeah, a bunch of Producers and Accountants managed a great feat with the MCU, and made an incredibly popular entretainment product fit for mass consumption. Nothing more, and nothing less.
The truth is, whether you like it or not, Disney is the definition of American culture. By hook or by crook, they are America now. They control the zeitgeist and have done so not by coercion, or violence, but by providing joy.
This is where I find myself torn.
I like Disney movies, they bring me joy, so I pay for them
I like Star Wars movies, they bring me joy, so I pay for them
I like Marvel movies, they bring me joy, so I pay for them
Feeling like I have a societal obligation to not enjoy these things because the entity that creates them has become too powerful is an extremely difficult sell! Feeling like I have to convince myself that the things that I enjoy are somehow wrong (because they're mass-marketed or because they're formulaic or because they fund a massive conglomerate) feels like a personal attack on my character.
Just because I like Marvel movies doesn't mean I'm somehow flawed or unable to objectively criticize a movie all of a sudden. Oppressive, obscure, arthouse-type independent movies don't bring me joy. I can appreciate the importance of artful cinema without necessarily having to consume it. I do not appreciate being made to feel that because I didn't enjoy some critically acclaimed movies that I'm somehow unqualified to disagree with an acclaimed filmmaker. My joy is not a fault. Nor is it artificial. A massive conglomerate having figured out how to bring the maximum amount of entertainment to a maximum amount of people is not a bad thing in and of itself, even if it does mean that such a conglomerate gets to massively profit from having figured out that aspect of human psychology.
This isn't some shitty microtransaction pay-to-win video game-style scam they're pulling off, it's just good business! A company having its finger on the pulse of the global culture it seeks to cater to and using that ability to profit isn't an evil in and of itself, it's simply cleverness.
Does the possibility exist that Disney may choose to, one day, abuse the massive power it has accumulated for itself. Yeah, we can't discount that, but there's a reason anti-trust laws don't outright outlaw monopolies, they only outlaw abuse of dominant power. Being successful, by itself, shouldn't be punished. Using success to artificially manipulate the market in your favor though, should. Now, if there's evidence that Disney is abusing its power to keep new entrants from competing, then fine, let's hear it and have a case brought before the FTC, but until then, I'm going to choose not to worry about it.
Lol man, those accountants really did a bang up job with all the CGI, acting, writing, directing, plotting, and scripting.
Oh there were other people? Nah fuck all their hard work, I have a point to make on a forum about movies I hate.
Yeah but that's not the same thing
Marvel blew up because the films were consistently competently made instead of utter garbage like just about every action movie from 2000 to 2008, and 95% of the ones before then.
The directing and action scenes in the Marvel films are pretty pedestrian, with some exceptions. The secret to Marvel films is that they invest a lot of time and attention to character work. It's not just that they are well cast, but they allow the actors and scriptwriters to invest depth and complexity into their characters that makes them interesting to follow over the course of multiple films.
McDonald's food has a measurable bad effect on human health. The food is bad for you and can harm you if consumed too regularly. Society has a responsibility to protect its members from harm. McDonald's can cause harm.
The same cannot be said for (most) Disney products as far as I'm aware. Unless you have measurable evidence to provide that Disney's output causes an actual (instead of theoretical/hypothetical) harm, please let us know.
For the record, as already discussed in this thread, the argument that "Disney harms the independent film space" is not conclusively proven, and even if it were true, I do not believe that that amounts to the same level of harm done than that of McDonald's food.
Which is why the Transformers films were major cultural moments...
The idea that Marvel's films are secretly bad, but the mass audience is to ignorant to recognize this, is dumb. They make great use of their actors and connect with audiences through this.
I mean, they were competent. Even IM2 was a better than average action movie for its time, but disappointing compared to the original. None of them lived up to the first Iron Man which, I'll remind, blew people away when it came out.
And was China even really that big a deal 10 years ago? Their movie market has only recently been a driving force.
The death of the mid-budget film predates Marvel's entry into filmmaking by at least a decade. Here's a good article from 2014 that outlines the issue.
Absolutely weightless wire fighting, etc.
Marvel films spoiled people, I think, and I'm honestly sure they just don't remember how bad action films were for the longest.
More Charlie's Angels, less Winter Soldier.
At their best, like in the Ant-Man movies, they are fun and inventive. At their worst, they are at least easy to follow.
Their main drawback is that, since they are often done by a specialized second unit filling in for the films' directors, they sacrifice inventiveness for consistency.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I mean
There's not a lot that compares to Fury Road anywhere.
I’m not even that sure that McDonalds is that bad health wise, having watched SuperSize Me the main takeaway I had was people should stop drinking carbonated corn syrup.
And is Marvel / Disney really crowding out all the Independent films? I mean several times a year everyone is gushing about some new masterpieces like Get Out or The Favourite, Midsummer and now The Lighthouse.
With the prevalence of 4K TV and home surround sound systems, it seems like the only movies that truly rely on the theatre experience are the big action blockbusters that people are denigrating. So it makes sense that the more savvy consumers are going to blockbusters at the theatre and experiencing the moody atmospheric movies at home.
MWO: Adamski
Like try to watch one of the first 3 bourne movies now. You'll get motion sickness from the action sequences
George Miller has been one of the best action directors in the industry for 40 years now. Masters always make everyone else look bad.
They had such great stories that I can think of many of them off the top of my head and not only manage like...the first Bourne movie was then right? And like...the first F&F movie? Uh, what other action movies were there? Also what were the compelling stories that have been crowded out?
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Like the Transporter movies got progressively dumber and harder to follow, 300 is problematic but was p inventive with the action shots, the Nolanbats aren't exactly what I would call well-filmed action, Kill Bill is p great, and I really like Minority Report and Hot Fuzz.
But the decade is rather drab, especially the first half. Just woof.
The amazing worldbuilding of Stealth!
A lot of this argument revolves around the 70s generation of directors ideological worship of the cinema experience. Modern audiences didn't pick up the love thanks to affordable home theater technology, and it's honestly only the blockbuster experience that keeps movie theaters in business. They don't consider a film released on Netflix to be inferior to one playing at the local arthouse theater.
It's the same worldview that used to separate TV into such an inferior category that it was seen as a sign of career death when a film actor had to stoop to take a TV role. Today, when everyone wants to work on or create a prestige TV series, those old lines barely make sense anymore.
Don't forget the matchup we've all been waiting for with Ballistic: Ecks vs Sever.
In the intervening 40ish years between Mad Max movies though, all he directed and wrote was light, family-friendly fare.
The same guy who gave us ripping the face off someone with a towhook also gave us Babe. And Happy Feet.
They're successful because they star characters who were selected over fifty years of darwininian comic book industry writing (Iron Man, Cap etc are all good character, the ones from that time that weren't are gone and forgotten), they are very well cast, they were very well marketed, the initial movies were good enough to develop a powerful following (Iron Man being genuinely pretty great essentially allowed the MCU to exist) and they are designed to be very accessible and enjoyable by anyone.
The decade after the creative explosion of 1999 was pretty universally disappointing. The national mood after 9/11, especially, led to a lot of safe choices and stifled creativity. There were great films, of course, but it wasn't a great time to be into movies overall.