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[Wrestling] WWE roster receives "quiet demotion" to developmental performance center

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    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    jonny439 wrote: »
    Magell wrote: »

    So you think the fans liked it?

    That was clearly the biggest factor and why nobody cared about Mel or Luther.

    Um no I’m aware that the fans didn’t like it. It was a terrible angle that’s obvious.That’s not the part of the story I’m not buying. I don’t think Brandi was the impetus for the end of the angle. I don’t buy that story but believe what you will.

    So why do you think the angle ended?

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    jonny439jonny439 Registered User regular
    I think someone else in AEW creative(Tony Kahn, Kenny Omega, Young Bucks) made the call to end it not Brandi. Trust me that I get that it was a bad angle and that’s why AEW changed course. I actually wrote “good job” for whoever decided to end it but I doubt it was the performers just deciding it sucked and they didn’t want to do it any longer.

    Also I do believe Kong got hurt and has GLOW filming that takes precedence as well so this was a good time to end things. This is all just my speculation and opinion though. I’m not claiming any sort of insider knowledge.

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    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    AJR wrote: »
    That's awesome.

    Asuka is awesome.

    I'm only surprised that they're not going to let her keep her name, and force her into a tag team with Asuka, calling them the Two Sukas.

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    AJRAJR Some guy who wrestles NorwichRegistered User regular
    I think the only reason why she's using a different name in the US is to prevent any confusion.

    Aaron O'Malley. Wrestler extraordinaire.
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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Should've gone with Kana.

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    I mean... KISS principle

    I don't see why there's any point in theorizing that Brandi didn't see her angle wasn't working out

    She's high up enough in the company to have creative control, has business smarts, and has been around wrestling long enough to be able to realize what the fans do and do not like

    It's weird to want to take her agency away because ?????

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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    I don't think AEW not hitting Canada yet has any thing to do with visa situations. Two of the star talent have Canadian citizenship and most of the roster work other shows outside of AEW and travel frequently to other countries.

    If it's getting a permit to take your company into Canada to work 3 or 4 weeks at major cities, that might be a different story, but I imagine the kind of money Khan has can turn that around quickly.

    I'm sure it has more to do with scheduling than anything. Not all of them exclusively work AEW shows, so the back and forth must be incredibly draining, on top of needing to stay in peak physical condition.

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    I don't think AEW not hitting Canada yet has any thing to do with visa situations. Two of the star talent have Canadian citizenship and most of the roster work other shows outside of AEW and travel frequently to other countries.

    If it's getting a permit to take your company into Canada to work 3 or 4 weeks at major cities, that might be a different story, but I imagine the kind of money Khan has can turn that around quickly.

    I'm sure it has more to do with scheduling than anything. Not all of them exclusively work AEW shows, so the back and forth must be incredibly draining, on top of needing to stay in peak physical condition.

    I mean, presumably a Canadian tour would mean setting up visas for several weeks or for several nights and sending your wrestlers back home again after each match, on top of getting your equipment across the border, and it may be a process they are unfamiliar with as an organization (though I'm sure they could get some immigration lawyers on retainer)

    It's likely a significant amount more planning required and they might want a more substantial base in the US first

    I don't doubt they'll do it eventually, I'm just not worried about it unless they go a full year or two without

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    jonny439jonny439 Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    I mean... KISS principle

    I don't see why there's any point in theorizing that Brandi didn't see her angle wasn't working out

    She's high up enough in the company to have creative control, has business smarts, and has been around wrestling long enough to be able to realize what the fans do and do not like

    It's weird to want to take her agency away because ?????


    Well if we are keeping it simple like you said, Brandi has creative control so she had a large hand in creating the angle. That isn’t taking any agency from her at all. Taking her agency away would be saying “poor Brandi she got saddled with a terrible gimmick”. She tried something and it didn’t work. This wasn’t a WWE situation where the performer was being forced to read someone else’s words. So her coming out after the fact to basically say “Don’t blame me that shit sucked” didn’t vibe with me.

    This is wrestling and part of being a fan is “theorizing” and speculating. With the death of Kayfabe backstage speculation is going to happen. People in this very thread speculate on backstage shit daily but it only seems to be off limits for some promotions and wrestlers.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    No one said it is off limits

    But it doesn't make sense to reject her story and say "one of the men in charge killed it"

    Like

    You are saying the rest of it is true (realizing that fans didnt like it, Kong being hurt, etc) but...just that Brandi didn't do what she said she did? Why? It is rare enough that a woman is in a position to book angles and have that level of control in a wrestling promotion so not believing her and insisting one of the men did it is gonna rub folks the wrong way.

    BlankZoe on
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    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    We only speculate on WWE backstage stuff because they never talk about it anywhere. Until people quit and basically confirm how mismanaged it in shoot interviews.

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    No one said it is off limits

    But it doesn't make sense to reject her story and say "one of the men in charge killed it"

    Like

    You are saying the rest of it is true (realizing that fans didnt like it, Kong being hurt, etc) but...just that Brandi didn't do what she said she did? Why? It is rare enough that a woman is in a position to book angles and have that level of control in a wrestling promotion so not believing her and insisting one of the men did it is gonna rub folks the wrong way.

    Yeah like, taking her agency away means taking her ability to decide on the success or failure of her own gimmick away, and saying one of the men in power told her to cut it off, and then tell everyone that she made her own decision, which is.......... An odd thing to speculate about

    It is perfectly reasonable to assume she made her own decision, because she said she did, and everything she said was pretty plausible and understandable. She isn't even blaming the other wrestlers, she's more trying to explain why she feels the bit didn't connect with people and how she wants to change it to protect those other wrestlers and give them a more fair shot.

    It isn't off limits but if you don't want folks to think you've got some weird gender issues then you might want to think about what is and isn't going to be received well as far as speculation goes

    Cello on
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    jonny439jonny439 Registered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    No one said it is off limits

    But it doesn't make sense to reject her story and say "one of the men in charge killed it"

    Like

    You are saying the rest of it is true (realizing that fans didnt like it, Kong being hurt, etc) but...just that Brandi didn't do what she said she did? Why? It is rare enough that a woman is in a position to book angles and have that level of control in a wrestling promotion so not believing her and insisting one of the men did it is gonna rub folks the wrong way.

    I only used male names in my example because I’m not aware of any other female executives or creatives in the promotion. So I apologize for that.
    I have my biases like everyone else but honestly my intent was not to say this sucked because Brandi is a woman please trust that. I think that creative folks are more inclined to try to make their ideas work than scrap them and usually when things end so abruptly I feel like someone outside of the process has to make the call.

    When I listened to her interview it didn’t come off well to me. For example she said that when she was on commentary that it “wasn’t me” but I mean it kind of was. Also she said that “too many cooks got involved”. That to me was her trying to distance herself from the creative process that by all accounts she has control of. If you only read a write up of what was said it doesn’t seem that bad but I listened and I came away feeling like she was trying to save face that’s why it didn’t ring true to me. If she had said something like “hey I had an idea and injuries and schedules got in the way of it working out so we listened to the fans” I would have taken it at face value. She definitely didn’t do that and took no responsibility for it not working out.

    I’m not going to explain this further so if you want to say I’m a bad person for feeling this way go ahead. Lord knows I’m not perfect but yea the interview just seemed off to me. I will keep my opinions to myself in the future.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I am gonna try and couch this as non-aggressively as I can.

    You don't have to go full SHIELD UP defensive when folks disagree with you.

    No one called you a bad person and no one said you can't share your opinion, you are the one bringing those topics into the discussion.

    Myself and Cello talked about how we feel it is unfair to not both not take Brandi at her word and also to give credit to another male executive (as Brandi is the only woman). If you still stand by your take, fine, but portraying this as some kind of attack on your person and character is unnecessary and inaccurate to what has actually been said.

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    NiryaNirya Registered User regular
    I’m more likely to believe Brandi was the one who killed the whole thing specifically because she has creative control. She doesn’t seem to be a typical wrestler with a huge ego, so instead of doubling down to prove her idea is good, she simply said “yeah, you’re right, this is a bad gimmick. Let’s just stop doing it.”

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    bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    Highlits from codys interview with Meltzer
    • Says the biggest lessons that he’s learned running a company thus far are how to provide structure to talent that aren’t ready to come up with their own ideas or promos, and how to be diplomatic/speak to each other when negotiating or disagreeing on creative ideas.
    • Says with the new TV deal, Cody feels like they have a partner with Warner Media moving forward and analogizes their relationship to that of Warner and the NBA. Says internally their best metric, moreso than quarter-hour ratings, is merch sales and Jericho is their top seller.
    • Cody says Orange Cassidy, Joey Janela and Luchasaurus all have notably high merch sales. Also shouts out that merch for the women sells well when traditionally (presume that means in WWE) women’s merch doesn’t sell as well as men’s.
    • Says he is impressed by Darby Allin’s ingenuity, professionalism and that he always talks to the camera guys to get them on the same page for his ideas. Says Darby is always in the ring having matches with himself and guys that do that tend to succeed in the business.
    • Says he relishes going to lesser-trafficked cities and they did 3,100 in Huntsville which, as Jim Ross would say, is ‘a really good start.’ Says he is generally a pessimist so he was realistic about the feasibility of filling buildings week after week.
    • Says in 2020 they have to start making international steps and specifically names London and Manchester as musts. His goal would be to do a mini-tour in Europe and it would be a good experience and bonding opportunity for the locker room.
    • Says because he was also producing the show, he and Dustin worked out a lot of their match beforehand with QT Marshall as a coach/agent. He says he will probably never watch the match back. “It got five stars, I don’t know if you know that.”
    • Says the criticism that too much story stuff happens on the vlogs is a valid one and they are working to strike the right balance in 2020. They like integrating the character pieces but they also promised that the TV show will have a lot of action and tell stories in the ring.
    • Says their infrastructure is ready for the third hour but they haven’t yet done a long-form determination with Warner about what format that will take. They may experiment and he said Tony was thinking about a showcase for the younger talent. Probably won’t be just Dark on TV.
    • Asked about a secondary title, he asks what do you do first, a women’s tag title or a title that’s not unlike a television title? He says they have an idea that’s different and hasn’t been done but he asks that people be patient because they’re taking things slow.
    • Credits Adam Page for the Hangman act that’s currently catching on and says that’s all his unique sense of humor. Also says Page is hard to read and he’s not really sure if Page likes him.
    • Says they pretty much are planning six months out at minimum for top acts. “Real inside stuff here but it is the Observer.” Other guys they have four-week plans for and they flow more improvisationally.
    • Says social media is tricky and as the “guinea pig generation” for it his personal feelings on it change. Difficult to tell the difference between 3 people tweeting 1,000 times and 3,000 actual people. Says he mostly wants to use it for positive things like the AHA initiative now
    • He implies there is some communication with New Japan already since they are using Mox and Jericho. Says as an ex-WWE guy, NJPW paid him much more than they paid other guys (meaning Kenny and the Bucks) who had struggled there so he did not have the same negative feelings.
    • Echoes Nick Jackson on the topic of a working relationship and says they are “open for business” but both companies are focusing on their brands. Laughs at Jericho saying the “forbidden door” line - “you’re on their show bro! It’s not some forbidden thing.”
    • “You can’t get in any bubble, you can’t be in a New Japan bubble, you can’t be in a WWE bubble, you can’t be in an AEW bubble. If you’re truly going to live the spirit of All Elite Wrestling you’ve gotta keep your mind and your eyes and your ears open to all that’s out there.”
    • Says “open for business” again and “I’m sure there will be some discussions” but he doesn’t think they’ll ever do a “dual show“ because he doesn’t like that concept. “Everyone’s still got each other’s phone numbers and everybody’s still in contact.”
    • Dave suggests the idea of individual talent exchanges where people just come in from time to time to spice things up and Cody says that would be music to his ears.

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    jonny439jonny439 Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    I am gonna try and couch this as non-aggressively as I can.

    You don't have to go full SHIELD UP defensive when folks disagree with you.

    No one called you a bad person and no one said you can't share your opinion, you are the one bringing those topics into the discussion.

    Myself and Cello talked about how we feel it is unfair to not both not take Brandi at her word and also to give credit to another male executive (as Brandi is the only woman). If you still stand by your take, fine, but portraying this as some kind of attack on your person and character is unnecessary and inaccurate to what has actually been said.

    Um well Cello implied I’m a sexist for not thinking Brandi was being 100 percent forthcoming in her interview. I got “weird gender” issues attached to me but somehow you are the aggrieved party here and I’m just being defensive? If you don’t think being accused of having people think I might have “weird gender issues” is an attack I don’t know what to say. Like do you think that’s encouraging a discussion?

    I see this on this forum a lot. Folks jump to conclusions and love to assign bad motives to folks when they don’t agree with them and it probably should stop. Zoe I’m bad with words sometimes but I sincerely apologize to you for not being better at explaining why I didn’t believe her. You make a great point though that it 100 percent came off that I was crediting the better judgement of a man and I was wrong for that. No need to get more aggressive your point has been made.

    I’m really done this time.

    jonny439 on
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    AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    Seth is much more tolerable when he leans into his natural personality as a dick and when surrounded by others to temper his more annoying traits. WWE actually seems to be building two big natural babyfaces in KO and McIntyre too. I don't know how much of Drew is scripted but he moves with it in an organic way.

    WTF is Robert Roode doing in the Elimination Chamber match?

    AlphaRomero on
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    bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    Just seen the Becky/Shayna segment from last night


    are you kidding me?

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    Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    Vince saw the new Lil Nas X video and realized that vampires are IN, pal

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    XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    vampires are such good shit

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    jonny439 wrote: »
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    I am gonna try and couch this as non-aggressively as I can.

    You don't have to go full SHIELD UP defensive when folks disagree with you.

    No one called you a bad person and no one said you can't share your opinion, you are the one bringing those topics into the discussion.

    Myself and Cello talked about how we feel it is unfair to not both not take Brandi at her word and also to give credit to another male executive (as Brandi is the only woman). If you still stand by your take, fine, but portraying this as some kind of attack on your person and character is unnecessary and inaccurate to what has actually been said.

    Um well Cello implied I’m a sexist for not thinking Brandi was being 100 percent forthcoming in her interview. I got “weird gender” issues attached to me but somehow you are the aggrieved party here and I’m just being defensive? If you don’t think being accused of having people think I might have “weird gender issues” is an attack I don’t know what to say. Like do you think that’s encouraging a discussion?

    I see this on this forum a lot. Folks jump to conclusions and love to assign bad motives to folks when they don’t agree with them and it probably should stop. Zoe I’m bad with words sometimes but I sincerely apologize to you for not being better at explaining why I didn’t believe her. You make a great point though that it 100 percent came off that I was crediting the better judgement of a man and I was wrong for that. No need to get more aggressive your point has been made.

    I’m really done this time.

    Well, this is a very aggressive post, and you probably should have just left it at the prior one rather than doing some wild demonstration of what you think is good and bad tone, by comparing Zoe and I and only apologizing to the one woman you perceive as good. It doesn't exactly come across as mature.

    If your first reaction when two women tell you, incredibly gently, that there is a problem with your post's thought process and how it treats women, is to say that we believe we're the "aggrieved party" while you're the real victim, then you absolutely need to work on why we'd be telling you, *VERY GENTLY*, that you're wrong. We never said what your motives might be, because we can't tell across a screen, but both of us suggested the content of your post was problematic, and something you needed to think through more as it had no logical sense and limited us to the pretty clear read of "oh, literally everything about her story is true except that she made her own decision to end her storyline, because ?????"

    Sexism, racism, homophobia, and all that jazz are pervasive, and sometimes people don't realize their assumptions are coming through on a post. You're the one who took criticism about that post and how it reads, and turned it into a personal attack on yourself.

    My suggestion next time is if you feel attacked by someone telling you you're wrong on that level, try listening. When someone explains that your hot take is at best problematic and at worst harmful, apologize, and try to learn something from the experience, lest you find yourself repeating it.

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    hailtothekalehailtothekale Registered User regular
    Okay, I'll bite. What happened with Shayna?

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Okay, I'll bite. What happened with Shayna?
    Funnily enough, she bit!

    Becky Lynch's neck!

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    hailtothekalehailtothekale Registered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    Okay, I'll bite. What happened with Shayna?
    Funnily enough, she bit!

    Becky Lynch's neck!

    Finally, Blackcraft Wrestling makes its long awaited return!

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    XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    funny how Edge comes back and then Shayna restarts The Brood

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I don't mind vampires in wrestling but the way this was done was not to do vampire shit and it was pretty awful and stupid.

    I also continue to maintain that mma sucks in wrestling.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited February 2020
    If this is also going to happen in the wrestling thread like every other thread, can we at least invite wirehead back to spice things up a bit before the thread dies?

    Reynolds on
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    TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    If this is also going to happen in the wrestling thread like every other thread, can we at least invite wirehead back to spice things up a bit before the thread dies?

    If I want to know what Vince thinks I’ll just follow him on twitter.

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    CelloCello Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    If this is also going to happen in the wrestling thread like every other thread, can we at least invite wirehead back to spice things up a bit before the thread dies?

    I don't see why Tube would close a thread over vampirism

    Unless you're suggesting he's moonlighting as a Van Helsing

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    If this is also going to happen in the wrestling thread like every other thread, can we at least invite wirehead back to spice things up a bit before the thread dies?

    I don't see why Tube would close a thread over vampirism

    Unless you're suggesting he's moonlighting as a Van Helsing

    He does seem to have a pro Dragula position actually...

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    Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular
    All Japan announced participants for this year's Champion Carnival, which runs April 6-May 5

    Kento Miyahara
    Davey Boy Smith Jr
    Jake Lee
    Suwama
    Yuma Aoyagi
    Shuji Ishikawa
    Takashi Sugiura
    Ayato Yoshida
    Hideyoshi Kamitani
    Zeus
    Naoya Nomura
    Yoshitatsu
    KAI
    Ryoji Sai
    Joel Redman
    Gianni Valletta
    Lucas Steel
    Shigehiro Irie

    I'm hype about that lineup, but I'm bummed if Joe Doering's done in All Japan without at least a better sendoff match than *checks Cagematch* a tag match two months ago with Jun Akiyama against Daisuke Sekimoto and Tsugutaka Sato

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    hailtothekalehailtothekale Registered User regular
    My son Shigehiro Irie gonna Beast Bomber his way to the top!

    What's going on with Doering, is he injured?

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    Dex DynamoDex Dynamo Registered User regular
    GET 'EM IRIE!!

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    never dienever die Registered User regular
    Xehalus wrote: »
    funny how Edge comes back and then Shayna restarts The Brood

    See now I’m just picturing Shayna coming out of the ground in the ring of Fire and bumping her body along with the Brood’s sweet entrance music and that’s all I want now.

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    bobAkirafettbobAkirafett Registered User regular
    jonny439 wrote: »
    I think someone else in AEW creative(Tony Kahn, Kenny Omega, Young Bucks) made the call to end it not Brandi. Trust me that I get that it was a bad angle and that’s why AEW changed course. I actually wrote “good job” for whoever decided to end it but I doubt it was the performers just deciding it sucked and they didn’t want to do it any longer.

    Also I do believe Kong got hurt and has GLOW filming that takes precedence as well so this was a good time to end things. This is all just my speculation and opinion though. I’m not claiming any sort of insider knowledge.

    Oh snap! I didn't realize that's who Kong was. I may be dense.

    Also, my dream match in AEW involves Orange Cassidy and Naka-Naka-Nakazawa somehow (besides more women's work/storyline)

    akirasig.jpg
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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    never die wrote: »
    Xehalus wrote: »
    funny how Edge comes back and then Shayna restarts The Brood

    See now I’m just picturing Shayna coming out of the ground in the ring of Fire and bumping her body along with the Brood’s sweet entrance music and that’s all I want now.

    With Marina and Jessamyn flanking her all gothed out? Yes, please.

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    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    never die wrote: »
    Xehalus wrote: »
    funny how Edge comes back and then Shayna restarts The Brood

    See now I’m just picturing Shayna coming out of the ground in the ring of Fire and bumping her body along with the Brood’s sweet entrance music and that’s all I want now.

    With Marina and Jessamyn flanking her all gothed out? Yes, please.

    If they did that I would almost want Ronda to come back so she could see her friends and just stand there flabbergasted.

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    Sweeney TomSweeney Tom Registered User regular
    PWG's first show of the year is March 29. Tickets on sale next Thursday at 11PM Eastern. Card for KOBE:

    Aramis and Rey Horus vs The VeloCities (Paris de Silva and Jude London)
    Brody King vs JD Drake vs Caveman Ugg vs Black Taurus in a fatal fourway
    Orange Cassidy vs Mick Moretti
    Dragon Lee vs Flamita
    Jeff Cobb vs David Starr
    The Rascalz (Dezmond Xavier, Zachary Wentz and Trey Miguel) vs Tony Deppen, Alex Zayne and Blake Christian
    Bandido defends the world title against Jonathan Gresham

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    crwthcrwth THAT'S IT Registered User regular



    ...i don’t need another death by roll up shirt i just got the neo itoh respect army one fuck!

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