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Fox News, the Liberal Media, news in America.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2007
    So... I guess neocons like Fox News?

    Fair assessment.

    ElJeffe on
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    YarYar Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I generally apply neo-con to anyone who believes in using and increasing government size and power, but towards conservative goals. But I might have made that up.

    Yar on
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    MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    There was a time when Republican meant smaller govt. too, just goes to show how words can change meanings.

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    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    There was a time when Republican meant smaller govt. too, just goes to show how words can change meanings.

    Yeah, that seems to be the reason behind the resurrection of the neocon label.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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    Mr BubblesMr Bubbles David Koresh Superstar Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    On topic:

    I've never really watched BBC on television, but I've read the online version quite a bit. I fail to see what's so special about it - it seems roughly on par with the NYT or CNN online.

    BBC really isn't the Holy Grail of well made news reporting that many people think it is. There was a bit of a hoo-hah over here about it having a left-wing bias, but thats about it

    Mr Bubbles on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    They weren't called neo-conservatives during the cold war.

    It was pretty much one coherent group of people all the way through.

    Shinto on
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    themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Neocons are commies who had a come to jesus moment and switched sides.

    themightypuck on
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    DeciusDecius I'm old! I'm fat! I'M BLUE!Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I love the way our newspapers work in Edmonton (Alberta, Canada's answer to a Red State, in more ways than one). If you want a pro-corporatist, right leaning paper, you read the Edmonton Journal. If you want left leaning liberal literature that is pro-union and a little socialist, you read the free weeklies (See Magazine, Vue Weekly). If you want to look at pictures of scantily clad, fairly attractive Canadian women, you pick up the Edmonton Sun. People who say they get The Sun for the news are probably the same people who say they buy Playboy for the articles.

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    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Ironically enough, if you take the time to read some Playboy articles, there's quality to be had.

    Too bad nobody really does.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    One of my fundie friends in college actually bought a CD-rom compilation of like every Playboy interview ever. It was pretty interesting.

    Irond Will on
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    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    One of my fundie friends in college actually bought a CD-rom compilation of like every Playboy interview ever. It was pretty interesting.

    My girlfriend bought the first season of Girls Next Door because she's crazy like that, but after watching some of it I've come to really like Hef and appreciate his approach to the whole thing. It's an aesthetic for him, not pornography.

    That was horrendously OT.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I think most of the time when people talk about whether the media is conservative/liberal, they're talking about different things.

    The media has a tendency to hunt for scandal, hunt for controversy, hunt for alternative lifestyles. This makes it seem liberal to a lot of folks.

    On the other hand, the media (talking about large corporate media here) also seem reluctant (or unable) to question the basic mechanisms by which we govern ourselves. The media also seems to have a lack of historical perspective. Both things tend to make them appear conservative.

    Also: I think it's at least a little bit ironic that the "democratization" of the media that activists on both sides pined for is having a negative effect on mass media coverage. When it was pretty tough to be part of the media (only three or four major networks), everyone skewed towards safe, moderate and arguably less-biased coverage to keep a share of the audience. But now, with cable news and even more so with internet media, there's more money to be made telling a small portion of the population what they're interested in hearing.

    I, for one, think we ought to admit that the return of the (new, technological) penny press has brought yellow journalism back, too. And that if we'd just admit that, we'd be better off.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    Dyscord wrote: »
    I, for one, think we ought to admit that the return of the (new, technological) penny press has brought yellow journalism back, too. And that if we'd just admit that, we'd be better off.
    Well yes, but the age of yellow journalism isn't really considered a great time for news.

    Irond Will on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    They weren't called neo-conservatives during the cold war.

    Yes, actually, they were. The term was coined as a pejorative by "authentic" conservatives who didn't like having their anti-communist stances co-opted by a bunch of intellectual liberals. Eventually the term was embraced by Irving Kristol, but it was used throughout the 70's and 80's.

    There's still a small cadre of people who like to think of themselves as neo-cons, but mostly the movement has either died out, or merged with other movements to become something fairly distinct.

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    Chaos TheoryChaos Theory Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    If anyone wants to know what neoconservatism is, I'd highly suggest reading Francis Fukuyama's writings. He was a member of the PNAC in favor of forcefully spreading liberal democracy abroad, but he was disabused of his ways by the Iraq war. His analysis of neoconservatism and how it has changed is pretty adept.

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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited May 2007
    Really, though, The End of History was some bullshit.

    Irond Will on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Shinto wrote: »
    They weren't called neo-conservatives during the cold war.

    Yes, actually, they were. The term was coined as a pejorative by "authentic" conservatives who didn't like having their anti-communist stances co-opted by a bunch of intellectual liberals. Eventually the term was embraced by Irving Kristol, but it was used throughout the 70's and 80's.

    There's still a small cadre of people who like to think of themselves as neo-cons, but mostly the movement has either died out, or merged with other movements to become something fairly distinct.

    They followed Jean Kirkpatrick into the Republican party during Reagan's 1980 campaign.

    Shinto on
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    saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Really, though, The End of History was some bullshit.

    saggio on
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    cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    It bugged me how from the very start of the O'Reilly/Stewart interview, he goes to discredit him with that 'stoned slacker' comment.
    The Daily Show was the only news show I ever cared about if I watched anything, and I'm not either(well, at least I don't think I'm the latter).

    Bill reminds me of my mother's idiotic liberal boyfriend who likes to watch his show for some reason. I don't get the appeal of watching someone who you know doesn't let people who oppose his views get a word in edgewise.

    I'm watching the Colbert one now, and Stephen looks like he's out for blood.

    I've never watched his show, though.

    cj iwakura on
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    Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Why is there no mention of Bill Maher? Sure he is more left on many matters but he assaults both Democrats and Republicans. He also has fully fledged conversations with 3 guests rather than plugging some book for 5min on some author. I don't know about you guys but I love his HBO show because it's funny enough to keep me tuning in but also sheds light on many different perspectives on different subjects with Bill's input and his guest's arguing points.

    He also has no commercials and can say "Fuck." Thankyou HBO.

    Lucky Cynic on
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    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    Why is there no mention of Bill Maher? Sure he is more left on many matters but he assaults both Democrats and Republicans. He also has fully fledged conversations with 3 guests rather than plugging some book for 5min on some author. I don't know about you guys but I love his HBO show because it's funny enough to keep me tuning in but also sheds light on many different perspectives on different subjects with Bill's input and his guest's arguing points.

    He also has no commercials and can say "Fuck." Thankyou HBO.

    Your sig kind of encompasses the way I feel about him.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    He seems kind of intellectually vacuous to me.

    Jon Stewart is the same way, but he makes up for it by being well informed, having a lot of heart and being funny.

    Bill Maher is just kind of annoying.

    Shinto on
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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Extremely annoying. He preaches leftist ideology even when it makes him a hypocrite, and most times just to get cheap applause from an audience that already agrees with his bullshit anyway. I prefer people using reason, not ideology, to make their case. It's the same reason I hate the conservative pundits, so Bill "The Douchebag" Maher shouldn't be excluded. The other Bill brings Maher into his spin zone because he loves the way Maher argues, not really caring either way about what he argues for.

    Hoz on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited May 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    He seems kind of intellectually vacuous to me.

    Jon Stewart is the same way, but he makes up for it by being well informed, having a lot of heart and being funny.

    Bill Maher is just kind of annoying.

    That sums up my view pretty well.

    Elki on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Yar wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    NPR does a really good job.
    Yes, NPR News to me means Morning Edition and All Things Considered. Those programs are occassionally either liberal or conservative, to a slight degree, and usually only with [respectively] their newest and oldest reporters. Beyond that, they are exceedingly balanced and thorough. They report all sides to the story and give you the information you need to decide for yourself which side is more relevant. They don't use any of the bullshit tactics that so many reporters out there use in order to sensationalize, aggrandize, or soapbox.

    However, many other shows on NPR are fiercely liberal, and pull no punches in what is sometimes a practically communist agenda.

    Marketplace is pretty conservative, at least fiscally. But yeah, a lot of the more local shows can be pretty fiercely liberal.

    Not to pick nits from a couple pages back or anything, but Marketplace is from American Public Media, not NPR. Many NPR carriers air it though.

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    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    I think that's a valid point. Considering that, I don't know much about American Public Media.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I think that's a valid point. Considering that, I don't know much about American Public Media.

    Aside from A Prairie Home Companion and Marketplace, there honestly isn't an awful lot to know about them.

    korodullin on
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    Wonder_HippieWonder_Hippie __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    korodullin wrote: »
    I think that's a valid point. Considering that, I don't know much about American Public Media.

    Aside from A Prairie Home Companion and Marketplace, there honestly isn't an awful lot to know about them.

    Good to know, then. I've always preferred Lichtenstein Creative Media. The Infinite Mind is the best radio show since The Shadow.

    Wonder_Hippie on
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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    It bugged me how from the very start of the O'Reilly/Stewart interview, he goes to discredit him with that 'stoned slacker' comment.

    This is true, but I think he may just have been trying to be funny. Of course, like all FOX News attempts at humor, it was no different in either tone or content from his regular bile, so it didn't come off as humor. Or perhaps he was already paling in comparison to Stewart.

    Even if it wasn't, when he came on the Daily Show to reciprocate, he said (in response to Stewart's question on the subject), "Now Jon, you know I was baked when I said that."

    Shadowen on
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    Rufus_ShinraRufus_Shinra Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I see there seems to be a lot of hate for Maher, but I think that's a little unfair if you watch the whole show. His format is a three part show 1) Opens w/ telling jokes to audience 2) 1 on 1 interview 3) Have a discussion w/ 3 guests, usually one liberal, one conservative and one comedian.

    I don't care for the first two parts, but the third part is wonderful. Bill always lets the guests finish what their saying, keeps the discussion lively and focused. It's one of the few shows I see where people actually talk back and forth, rather than past each other (with exceptions, some guests can suck).

    Plus, he can say Fuck and Shit.

    Rufus_Shinra on
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    Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Every single god damn pundit pisses me off.

    Outside of Gonzo journalism. Does that count? I don't think it does.

    Zen Vulgarity on
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    geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I watched the mclaughlin group for the first time on friday.

    Fucking hilarious. I need to watch it stoned, it is so much better then chris matthews.

    geckahn on
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    durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    geckahn wrote: »
    I watched the mclaughlin group for the first time on friday.

    Fucking hilarious. I need to watch it stoned, it is so much better then chris matthews.
    I grew up on that show. My dad wouldn't change the goddamn channel.

    You know he used to be a priest? He was a Jesuit, one of my dad's Catholic school teachers knew him when he was in seminary, said he was a complete dick then, too. Apparently he says "You have stumbled onto the truth", too, which is a sign of jesuitism.

    God though, the show rocks. They just surrender to the yelling instinct.

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    Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    saggio wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Really, though, The End of History was some bullshit.

    Yeah, Francis Fukuyama can go screw himself.

    Target Practice on
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    geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    geckahn wrote: »
    I watched the mclaughlin group for the first time on friday.

    Fucking hilarious. I need to watch it stoned, it is so much better then chris matthews.
    I grew up on that show. My dad wouldn't change the goddamn channel.

    You know he used to be a priest? He was a Jesuit, one of my dad's Catholic school teachers knew him when he was in seminary, said he was a complete dick then, too. Apparently he says "You have stumbled onto the truth", too, which is a sign of jesuitism.

    God though, the show rocks. They just surrender to the yelling instinct.

    The man is rediculous, he looks like he's 90. And he's all like, "FIRST QUESTION". Plus the ending of the show was hilarious. totally cut into the argument and did like a two second goodbye.

    They were talking about falwell and the religious right and Buchanan was getting his shit handed to him so hard.

    geckahn on
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    Chaos TheoryChaos Theory Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Really, though, The End of History was some bullshit.

    I definitely agree here. Since he's drifted from neoconservatism, I can only hope he's changed his mind. Regardless, his recent writings/interviews on how neoconservatism has changed, from pseudo-Trotskyist-capitalist doctrine to profit-run militarism, are nice.

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