The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent
vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums
here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules
document is now in effect.
Death scares the shit out of me.
Posts
I read that phrase in a Dilbert comic
The religious scripts are recounts of whoever in the case of the Bible. In the other texts, its someone telling them what God told them (I know this isn't the best description.)
What are science books or journals? You've never seen these atoms and quarks, but you still believe they exist because some guy has a white coat on when he's writing this.
If you can have the same respect for religion by believing something you don't see, then I think you can see something in religion for you. I see religion in a reasonable way, I don't believe the Bible is 100% accurate nor are the other religious texts, it's been too fucking long since they've been written-- too many people fucking with them.
Relax.
It's within this mentality that we can explain the fact that no one ever touches anyone else, or exists in some specific location, or whatever. Within this reasoning, even the "big freeze" or "heat death" scenarios wouldn't result in the universe "dying" entirely, just changing. And there'd always be the possibility that the universe could repeat itself, and that the matter making me up could reconfigure itself and come back the same way it exists now.
You mess with the dolphin, you get the nose.
You mess with the dolphin, you get the nose.
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
Um, no. Even the guys in the white coats will tell you that this is NOT the reason you're supposed to believe them. You're supposed to believe them because they contain theoretical formulae that do an exceptionally good job of predicting repeatably observable phenomena. Those observations are described in the other science books by other men in white coats. The formulas for electrons are unbelievably accurate. The error has been described by Feynman as "measuring the distance from New York to Los Angeles to within the width of a single human hair." You believe these things not because the people in the white coats say so, but because you too could repeat exactly what they did and find the same results. Over and over and over again.
Yes, it can. And it will. As far as I'm aware, all the evidence we have indicates that consciousness is a creation of the brain. The brain dies, so does consciousness. People with increasing degrees of brain damage have correspondingly great degrees of defects in perception and consciousness. It even seems that certain kinds of brain damage change your personality. You are your brain. No brain, no you. If you feel otherwise, please explain the state of your life and consciousness in the year, say, 1066. You were dead then. You'll get there again.
After all, the only downside is that it says you'll live practically forever, not that you'll be in a state worth living.
When you're asleep, you don't know that you're asleep, really. Time passes like lightning and you're in a semi-conscious state. If you don't remember your dream, you might as well be dead.
This seems trivial and stupid, but you don't know that you're dead. You don't have the ability to think "oh fuck!" There's no "you" to think it. No regrets, nothing -- just like when you're asleep and not dreaming.
Instead of creating ridiculously convoluted theories about what happens after death, figure out for yourself what about death is so horrible that you have to lose sleep over it.
What if a burglar breaks into your home right now and shoots you in the head. BAM. You're dead. Assuming you don't believe in any sort of afterlife, you are now gone. You aren't conscious, aware, able to think or perceive. When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. It's like being in dreamless sleep. To me that doesn't seem to be to bad. (I personally think quantum immortality, being reincarnated as a worm, wandering the earth for eternity as a ghost, and of course burning in hell are all worse alternatives - anyways, not about me)
Reading your posts though, it doesn't seem you are afraid of the STATE of being dead, you're afraid of dying.
There could be millions of reasons for this, and you have to figure out for yourself what you are afraid of. Whether its knowing that you'll be leaving loved ones and things behind, worried that you have only a tiny amount of time to do the infinite things in life, fearing that what you do in life is inconsequential and pointless, or just general fear that time is ticking away and you haven't done anything with your life.
Think it over and let us know, but do keep in mind what others have said. The legacy that you leave behind, the memories you imprint on others (and perhaps if you're lucky, the history books) are in a sense immortal. They transcend death. What's more, don't think of death as a horrible fate we are all doomed to, think of it as merely an end. An end to the joys of life, but also to its miseries. You can't make enemies when you're dead, you can't grow old and senile and bald when you're dead. Sure, death isn't the greatest thing that can happen to you, but it's far from the worst (On my list, missing sleep ranks pretty high :P ).
Everyone is going to die, regardless of whether or not they're afraid of it. There is nothing to be gained from the fear, and pretty much your whole life to lose. It's impossible to hide from death, people who try are only really hiding from life.
There are no answers. And the comfort you must finds comes from your own acceptance of what it is to be human.
The best way to deal with this is figure out what exactly bothers you about death, and the find out why that bothers you. You said that you were afraid of not existing. Why? If you cease to exist what is there to fear? You will fear nothing in that state, you will not exist, so why would you fear a state of existence in which you would fear nothing?
Edit:
Why would your consciousness disappearing bother you? Why do you fear not existing?
I've never understood why a person would fear this, so I would like to know why you fear it.
This is pretty much what I believe and honestly it gives me solace. When you die you won't even know it, walking along one moment, and then gone the next. Just..."off". As sirSolarius said, like a dreamless sleep except you don't wake up.
I don't believe in an afterlife, reincarnation, or such constructs as heaven or hell. I mean if there is something, awesome, but honestly...I highly doubt it.
It doesn't really matter.
http://www.bartleby.com/102/16.html
I find it very odd that you say, "if there is something, awesome" regarding the existence of hell.
I do not think that it does not matter. Because if after we die something happens for all of eternity then that very much matters. The problem is that we can't know what happens. So it is not as if the question of what happens after death does not matter, it's just that we cannot answer it. In fact, it may be the most important question to answer.
But we can't answer it.
So we just exist in that little hole of knowing that there is this important question we cannot answer.
This is what I was going to type, only I was going to finish it off with "so stop being a fucking sissy"
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
I don't think that fear of death is a good reason to look into religion or any other spiritual or scientific beliefs - I think that the best motive to change your beliefs is a simple desire for the truth. Better than reassuring yourself that you will always exist is dealing with the reality of death and knowing that you have lived a meaningful life that is meaningful whether or not you exist after you die.
(Side note: People who say religion is just a means of avoiding the reality of death and providing a sense of security are also the people who say that religion instills fear into people and controls how they act based on the post-death consequences.
Being a Catholic, I believe that I will exist after I die. I realize that if I don't do everything I can to live a good life, I will face the consequences, but if I try my best, even if I fail, to find the truth and live by it, I will find comfort when I die (and before I die, but for other reasons). I don't have a false sense of security, because I know that it's not easy living a good life, but I don't have a lot of fear, either, because I know that all God asks for is my best.)
Even if you don't end up finding some belief that says you will exist after death (and even the most religious people have doubts about the afterlife anyway), I can say for certain that if you devote yourself to serving others, you will have less time and less inclination to worry about yourself.
Walri: I made a sandwich and lemonade today, they were both disgusting. I don't know how I do it, I need my mom to get back from vacation so I can make her prepare my food.
Iconslaughter: That was probably the most metal thing you've ever said.
I think the idea here is that because we can't know the answer, we can do nothing, and therefore thinking about the afterlife is of little consequence. A question that is impossible to answer isn't a question at all. It's a waste of time.
I think that gets to the point rather effectively.
To add to what sirSolarius and meatflower said, this is the state your body goes through when under anesthesia. If you've ever been put under for surgery, you know it's very much a situation where you are awake one moment, then start to fade, then you wake up an hour later with your family next to you.
What this procedure does is put your body into a controlled state of near death. Which is of course why the people in charge of it are so highly trained and well paid, and why you are told "Oh hey, some people don't wake up." The point is, it's completely painless and the loss in time isn't missed or even known.
I imagine death is much like that. Meaning, yeah that's sort of discomforting to think of not thinking anymore, but all said and done I know I won't care too much. After all, a healthy fear of death is essential to survival, but there comes a point where it becomes fruitless.
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
I've found watching Six Feet Under has helped?
Why are you concerned?
What have you seen in this life that you want to continue?
Which philosophies do you subscribe to?
Who is important to you?
How have you already changed the people around you?
How would you like to in the future?
How would you design an afterlife?
The list goes on and on. . .
This way, the idea that nothing lasts and death is inevitable, can actually be something reassuring and give you comfort and perspective (not meant in a suicidal way or something, but you get what I mean) when things are at their worst or most worrisome - instead of something to fear.
Hope that helps.
The only thing to fear is not to have done the things which you want to do. I fear the games I will not get to play, the books I will not read, the animals I will not get to see, the people I will not get to talk to. I can hardly be concerned about something that will not affect me...my non-existence.
The solution - do the things you want to do, do them as much as possible, minimise missing out on the things that you want to experience, that's the only sane thing to do.
This is essentially the advice I was about to give. I have no idea what the hell is going to happen to me after death. Maybe my ass is going to burn in hell. Maybe I'll go on to paradise. Maybe I'll float around doing nothing.
I had better make damn sure that I accomplish everything in life that I want to get done, because once I'm done on this planet, who's to say what happens. Its in this way that the uncertainty itself is comforting because its a motivating factor in deciding to be a better person while I'm alive. I'm more afraid of not accomplishing all my goals than anything else.
I'm in college in Australia, the odds of being beaten to death are extremely low, especially as my enemies are, well, rather pathetic. The risk of damaging my teeth or the braces apon them though, is fairly high if I'm in a fight with someone who genuinely wants to cause some serious harm.
My parents have instilled a bit of "IF YOU DAMAGE A TOOTH THE WORLD WILL COLLAPSE APON YOU AND YOU WILL NEVER EVER GET A JOB OR ANY FRIENDS, EVER!" in me.
I swear, this has eased my acceptance of death far more than anything I've read in a religious text.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
"Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time."
"Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck."
"Why do they bother with a suicide watch when someone is on death row? 'Keep an eye on this guy. We're gonna kill him, and we don't want him to hurt himself.'"
if god exists and I choose to not believe in him I die and then lose.
if god exists and I choose to believe in him I die and then win.
if god does not exist and I choose to believe in him I cease to exist.
if god does not exist and I choose to not believe in him I cease to exist.
the only positive answer is the second outcome therefore the logical choice is to believe in god. some french philsopher came out with that one during enlightenment I believe but it does follow an intelligent path.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
Believing in a religion just to hedge your bets for the afterlife seems like it's kind of defeating the point.
I don't know how I feel about this or religion in general, but some might argue the bolded part above has very negative aspects, such as, wasting time that could have been spent enjoying life in a meaningless activity, so it's not foolproof logic.
the philosopher just took a logical approach to religion. how people followed the answer wasn't his point. it was during the Period of Enlightenment I am sure it was in response to the tide of anti-religious sentiment.
wish I could remember the dude's name.
PokeCode: 3952 3495 1748
Pascal's Wager overlooks 3 important points:
1. There are mutliple world religions that have a policy of sending you to hell if you're not an exclusive member of that faith, so the wager only applies if you're lucky enough to pick the right one.
2. It assumes that God will appreciate you only believing in him out of self interest, if a logical proof is what convinces you.
3. It doesn't take into account the fact that if you devote your life to God in hope of reaping rewards in the afterlife, you miss out on the life you're currently living.