Personally I'm happy that GW is giving firstborn Marines some love. I understand how people can be worried about balance and runaway/snowball effect stat changes, but this really helps mitigate the idea that GW is abandoning their older Marine models (or, it at least bumps the idea back by an edition or two).
8th Edition was kind of weird as a Marine player. Yeah it was awesome getting a million new toys, but there is this constant background worry that GW is essentially laying the groundwork for the eventual softsquatting of every infantry unit in your entire army.
How is it softsquatting your army, when they are still a playable faction? The models just got replaced. At that point. And you can still play them as the new units, just rearrange your units, and 10 oldMarines with bolters are now 10 intercessors with bolt rifles.
I do not understand this feeling that GW is killing marines when all they are doing is releasing the truescale marines players complained about not having for decades.
You can’t just play old Marines as Primaris simply due to squad loadouts. Intercessors, the tactical squad replacement, gets no special weapons or heavy weapons, and has 3 different kinds of bolters. Hellblasters, the sort of Devastator replacement, is entirely equipped with Plasma guns, but 3 different types of Plasma gun that perform different roles. Infiltrators, their scout sniper replacement, s a squad of 3 power armoured Primaris. Their jump infantry all have heavy or special weaponry, not assault weaponry. Their tanks are hover tanks that fly, and aren’t really the same tanks regardless of the hover ability. Among other differences.
The only real similarity between Marines and Primaris is they wear power armour and use bolt weapons. They’re not just True Scale Space Marines. They’re as different as Marines to Custodes or Sisters.
I contend that at some point, Primaris will include an equivalent for every old marine mini. They may be slightly different, but right now, I could proxy an intercessor squad with 5 tactical marines. And I think you'll be able to do this even more as this cycle goes on.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited August 2020
It’s easy to pretend you think what GW will do with a cynical eye, but to me if they were going to make Primaris a 1:1 replacement for Space Marines, they’d have just done it. Not made an entire range that’s different just to start replacing them later.
Also, you could proxy those Space Marines as Sisters too. Being able to proxy Marines with bolters as another power armoured unit with bolters doesn’t prove a point other than the game has other armies with the same basic loadout.
Yeah crisis suits need another wound minimum if this is the way things are going
Tau need a bit of a rework. Markerlights in particular; like it’s daft you have to work so hard to build up a bunch of benefits that a lot of more recent armies seem to get just as auras. They shouldn’t be heavy for crying out loud.
Battle suits should be able to move after they fire (hopefully a base stat if not a strat), because the army fluff is supposed to be this mobile army that is completely adverse to hunkering down in one place (ie opposite to castling).
Introduce more auxiliaries? Or have a cc unit. Not something amazing but something that can push back. Maybe a new battle suit unit.
Oh and get rid of every unit has over watch (it is basically a bandaid to keep the army competitive).
And as a more general thing, maybe not have other races’ Knight equivalents be awful / overcosted. Looking at you Stormsurge and
Wraithknight.
I dont mind castling on its own, though if they eant to kill shield drone spam they need to have something to compensate.
Everyone gets to overwatch is cool and flavorful and I'll be disappointed if they get rid of it..
Mostly I think they just need some new numbers. Moving and shooting on some suits would be nice but you could make crisis suits and stormsurges viable with just a straight buff.
Crisis suit weapon options are a mess as well, with obvious trap choices and huge standouts. Given how it seems you have to play 9th successfully, namely board control and bullying the middle of the board, I'd love to see units like crisis suits get a buff and pull Tau away from boring castle gunlines.
They're not really fun to play or play against (IMO).
Well what about if there was no pandemic? I'm very very new to 40k so I don't even know what baseline would be.
Depends on what is prepped. Usually a codex a month or so. Basically it can be 40k for 2 weeks, AoS for 2 weeks. And so on. If they want to be rapid then it will be every 2 weeks.
Honestly, as a guy who's currently playing a SM army (Space wolves) I'm actually really hoping Xenos armies get some love sooner rather than later.
There's SO MUCH focus on marines. It's a bit much even as a guy who's playing them.
I really hope there's either indexes right away or that they really rapid fire codices two per month and then focus on campaign content.
Expanding on Crusade would be fantastic... having played a few matches so far and building on your campaign roster is so much fun. It really adds an RPG element that I'm personally really enjoying. Having an army full of named wolf lords, lieutenants, sergeants and dreads is so much fun.
Well what about if there was no pandemic? I'm very very new to 40k so I don't even know what baseline would be.
Depends on what is prepped. Usually a codex a month or so. Basically it can be 40k for 2 weeks, AoS for 2 weeks. And so on. If they want to be rapid then it will be every 2 weeks.
Man times have changed. I left at the start of 6th, and back then you were lucky to see 3-4 codexes a year.
Well what about if there was no pandemic? I'm very very new to 40k so I don't even know what baseline would be.
Depends on what is prepped. Usually a codex a month or so. Basically it can be 40k for 2 weeks, AoS for 2 weeks. And so on. If they want to be rapid then it will be every 2 weeks.
Man times have changed. I left at the start of 6th, and back then you were lucky to see 3-4 codexes a year.
Between the launch of 8th and the end they produced:
24x Codexes (25 if you count CSM 2.0 I don't)
8x Psychic Awakening Books
2x Vigilus books
6x Supplements
A bunch of white dwarf based rule sets like assassins and ynnari. Created a new faction. And basically released new content every month for 3 years. Its a damn good record.
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
Honestly, as a guy who's currently playing a SM army (Space wolves) I'm actually really hoping Xenos armies get some love sooner rather than later.
There's SO MUCH focus on marines. It's a bit much even as a guy who's playing them.
I really hope there's either indexes right away or that they really rapid fire codices two per month and then focus on campaign content.
Expanding on Crusade would be fantastic... having played a few matches so far and building on your campaign roster is so much fun. It really adds an RPG element that I'm personally really enjoying. Having an army full of named wolf lords, lieutenants, sergeants and dreads is so much fun.
I think this is why I'm irritated by the rebalancing. After the last year I feel like they needed to slow down and bring everything into line with Marines before pushing forward with bigger changes. Now they're saying: welp, you can wait until we give power armour and Imperium armies an even bigger boost before we give you a proper balance pass.
It's probably going to be good for the game in the long run, but it's going to suck for any army that doesn't hugely benefit from the changes for an unknown period of time after October.
I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
It might be less obnoxious now that minuses to hit are capped at 1.
I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
It might be less obnoxious now that minuses to hit are capped at 1.
I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
It might be less obnoxious now that minuses to hit are capped at 1.
I missed this, somehow
I actually had to double check myself, I couldn't remember if it was just minuses or minus and plus that are capped, but it's both. I also knew the part where unmodified 1's always missed, but didn't know until rereading just now that unmodified 6's always hit, regardless of modifiers.
Honestly, as a guy who's currently playing a SM army (Space wolves) I'm actually really hoping Xenos armies get some love sooner rather than later.
There's SO MUCH focus on marines. It's a bit much even as a guy who's playing them
Man I’ve got a mile long Wishlist for Tyranids and Genestealers. But it took them from
2nd to 7th to just do one of those (adapt some Epic bio tanks).
I sold off a bunch of armies this past year as I was turning into a hoarder and streamlined things (for 40k at least) down to my Space Wolves and about 500pts of DG and Custodes.
If they gave Nids the Indomitus Necron treatment I would buy in day one.
Honestly, as a guy who's currently playing a SM army (Space wolves) I'm actually really hoping Xenos armies get some love sooner rather than later.
There's SO MUCH focus on marines. It's a bit much even as a guy who's playing them
Man I’ve got a mile long Wishlist for Tyranids and Genestealers. But it took them from
2nd to 7th to just do one of those (adapt some Epic bio tanks).
I sold off a bunch of armies this past year as I was turning into a hoarder and streamlined things (for 40k at least) down to my Space Wolves and about 500pts of DG and Custodes.
If they gave Nids the Indomitus Necron treatment I would buy in day one.
Honestly the only thing I really want from Nids model-wise is to modify the gaunts so they don't immediately snap off the base if you look at them funny and give Warriors rending claw arms that aren't disproportionate. Nids may have some old kits, but they hold up remarkably well.
What I want is winged warriors but the rest are things I am going to get other than that surprise me
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
I’m not expecting much. Didn’t the 8th Edition Tyranid book drop without any models? For something that was once their best selling xenos range (Iirc in 4th edition) they sure treat it terribly.
But I’d be happy with a Shrike/Lictor kit, Dactylis/Malefactor kit and super ecstatic with a knight sized Dominatrix LoW.
I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
It might be less obnoxious now that minuses to hit are capped at 1.
I missed this, somehow
I actually had to double check myself, I couldn't remember if it was just minuses or minus and plus that are capped, but it's both. I also knew the part where unmodified 1's always missed, but didn't know until rereading just now that unmodified 6's always hit, regardless of modifiers.
Dunno how I feel about this tbh
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
N.B. thats the final mod after summing all mods so a -1 effect and a +2 effect come out to +1 total rather than no mod. But the same +2 applied to an unmodified hit roll is capped at +1.
I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
It might be less obnoxious now that minuses to hit are capped at 1.
I missed this, somehow
I actually had to double check myself, I couldn't remember if it was just minuses or minus and plus that are capped, but it's both. I also knew the part where unmodified 1's always missed, but didn't know until rereading just now that unmodified 6's always hit, regardless of modifiers.
Dunno how I feel about this tbh
I'm not a current 40k player but it sounds a fine idea to me from a design point of view. Allows you to have multiple different potential sources of +/- modifiers on rolls without worrying about someone stacking them to the point of breaking the system.
I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
It might be less obnoxious now that minuses to hit are capped at 1.
I missed this, somehow
I actually had to double check myself, I couldn't remember if it was just minuses or minus and plus that are capped, but it's both. I also knew the part where unmodified 1's always missed, but didn't know until rereading just now that unmodified 6's always hit, regardless of modifiers.
Dunno how I feel about this tbh
I'm not a current 40k player but it sounds a fine idea to me from a design point of view. Allows you to have multiple different potential sources of +/- modifiers on rolls without worrying about someone stacking them to the point of breaking the system.
This is exactly the point of it. Common lists in 8th (like Eldar planes or Possessed lists) would stack modifiers to the point of breaking. I once had an Eldar player bitch and moan at me for an entire tournament match because my shield drones were "non-interactive" despite me needing a 7 on a D6 to hit him with nearly anything in my army.
I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
It might be less obnoxious now that minuses to hit are capped at 1.
I missed this, somehow
I actually had to double check myself, I couldn't remember if it was just minuses or minus and plus that are capped, but it's both. I also knew the part where unmodified 1's always missed, but didn't know until rereading just now that unmodified 6's always hit, regardless of modifiers.
Dunno how I feel about this tbh
I'm not a current 40k player but it sounds a fine idea to me from a design point of view. Allows you to have multiple different potential sources of +/- modifiers on rolls without worrying about someone stacking them to the point of breaking the system.
It's a necessary limitation because a d6 doesn't give you much space to work with. Switching to d20s would cause other issues, but you'd be able to allow modifiers to stack without them causing certain actions to become near impossible.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Lemme know how you plan to paint those damn stripes on their helmets.
No fucking idea honestly. Probably just gonna have to go incredibly slowly with it. That's a while off though. Still waiting on a couple things before I can get them ready to paint.
Between the launch of 8th and the end they produced:
24x Codexes (25 if you count CSM 2.0 I don't)
8x Psychic Awakening Books
2x Vigilus books
6x Supplements
A bunch of white dwarf based rule sets like assassins and ynnari. Created a new faction. And basically released new content every month for 3 years. Its a damn good record.
I read that 8th Edition was the first time in decades where every army in the game had a current codex all at the same time.
I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
It might be less obnoxious now that minuses to hit are capped at 1.
I missed this, somehow
I actually had to double check myself, I couldn't remember if it was just minuses or minus and plus that are capped, but it's both. I also knew the part where unmodified 1's always missed, but didn't know until rereading just now that unmodified 6's always hit, regardless of modifiers.
Dunno how I feel about this tbh
I'm not a current 40k player but it sounds a fine idea to me from a design point of view. Allows you to have multiple different potential sources of +/- modifiers on rolls without worrying about someone stacking them to the point of breaking the system.
This is exactly the point of it. Common lists in 8th (like Eldar planes or Possessed lists) would stack modifiers to the point of breaking. I once had an Eldar player bitch and moan at me for an entire tournament match because my shield drones were "non-interactive" despite me needing a 7 on a D6 to hit him with nearly anything in my army.
As a person who had the -4 Lord Discordant protecting untargetable possessed yeah this is a good change.
Stacking buffs and debuffs in 9th were insane at the end. This and the move towards stuff like plasma being on unmodified 1s and explosions on unmodified 6s is good for the game. Even if it nerfing some of my stuff like the lord D that could explode on 4s. It was nuts.
Lemme know how you plan to paint those damn stripes on their helmets.[/quote]
I just helped my buddy with some of these. We did a Leadbelcher basecoat and then used Contrast paints: Iyanden Yellow and Talassar Blue IIRC. I used a size 1 brush with a nice point (synthetic brand from a local artshop, about $3-4), and did 2 coats. We didn't pay too much attention to the grooves between the stripes, but if I had to I'd probably do a brown ink pin wash. I didn't take any pictures unfortunately. As with any other detail work going slow is the key. I also press my palms together as I hold the mini to get even more control.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
So I’m seeing stuff about bolters getting their range boosted to 30”.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Yeah, supposedly they're like that in a repackaged box.
Like after some posts here in this thread I come around to the 2 wounds, but the range increase for the imperial weapons stuff still baffles me in connection with the new board sizes.
30" means you can easily shoot from your deployment zone into the opposite deployment zone in pretty much every mission as far as I can tell, no movement required.
Just my gut reaction. In real terms it probably doesn't change much with Primaris already being mostly at 30". Those 18" pistols though.
Sidenote: what's the over under for shuriken catapults to stay at 12"? Would be hilarious if they were to stay at flamer range.
honovere on
+1
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
I would be very happy to see them go to 24" range rapid fire 1 with dire avengers being assault 2 at the same range instead.
Posts
I bet if you slapped like three coats of Agrax Earthshade on there it would look fine.
Or dunked it headfirst into a bottle of Nurgle’s Rot.
Maybe both.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Then apply a -1 to leadership aura of 24 inches
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
I contend that at some point, Primaris will include an equivalent for every old marine mini. They may be slightly different, but right now, I could proxy an intercessor squad with 5 tactical marines. And I think you'll be able to do this even more as this cycle goes on.
Also, you could proxy those Space Marines as Sisters too. Being able to proxy Marines with bolters as another power armoured unit with bolters doesn’t prove a point other than the game has other armies with the same basic loadout.
Tau need a bit of a rework. Markerlights in particular; like it’s daft you have to work so hard to build up a bunch of benefits that a lot of more recent armies seem to get just as auras. They shouldn’t be heavy for crying out loud.
Battle suits should be able to move after they fire (hopefully a base stat if not a strat), because the army fluff is supposed to be this mobile army that is completely adverse to hunkering down in one place (ie opposite to castling).
Introduce more auxiliaries? Or have a cc unit. Not something amazing but something that can push back. Maybe a new battle suit unit.
Oh and get rid of every unit has over watch (it is basically a bandaid to keep the army competitive).
And as a more general thing, maybe not have other races’ Knight equivalents be awful / overcosted. Looking at you Stormsurge and
Wraithknight.
Everyone gets to overwatch is cool and flavorful and I'll be disappointed if they get rid of it..
Mostly I think they just need some new numbers. Moving and shooting on some suits would be nice but you could make crisis suits and stormsurges viable with just a straight buff.
They're not really fun to play or play against (IMO).
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Because of the pandemic and we are sliding into round 2 who knows as the timetable got really messed up
Depends on what is prepped. Usually a codex a month or so. Basically it can be 40k for 2 weeks, AoS for 2 weeks. And so on. If they want to be rapid then it will be every 2 weeks.
There's SO MUCH focus on marines. It's a bit much even as a guy who's playing them.
I really hope there's either indexes right away or that they really rapid fire codices two per month and then focus on campaign content.
Expanding on Crusade would be fantastic... having played a few matches so far and building on your campaign roster is so much fun. It really adds an RPG element that I'm personally really enjoying. Having an army full of named wolf lords, lieutenants, sergeants and dreads is so much fun.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Man times have changed. I left at the start of 6th, and back then you were lucky to see 3-4 codexes a year.
Between the launch of 8th and the end they produced:
24x Codexes (25 if you count CSM 2.0 I don't)
8x Psychic Awakening Books
2x Vigilus books
6x Supplements
A bunch of white dwarf based rule sets like assassins and ynnari. Created a new faction. And basically released new content every month for 3 years. Its a damn good record.
This seems extremely unlikely. IME people hate playing against Stygies Admech and Ravenguard. Giving Eldar flat -1 to hit coupled with the rest of their elf bullshit seems unlikely to go over well.
I think this is why I'm irritated by the rebalancing. After the last year I feel like they needed to slow down and bring everything into line with Marines before pushing forward with bigger changes. Now they're saying: welp, you can wait until we give power armour and Imperium armies an even bigger boost before we give you a proper balance pass.
It's probably going to be good for the game in the long run, but it's going to suck for any army that doesn't hugely benefit from the changes for an unknown period of time after October.
It might be less obnoxious now that minuses to hit are capped at 1.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
I missed this, somehow
I actually had to double check myself, I couldn't remember if it was just minuses or minus and plus that are capped, but it's both. I also knew the part where unmodified 1's always missed, but didn't know until rereading just now that unmodified 6's always hit, regardless of modifiers.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Man I’ve got a mile long Wishlist for Tyranids and Genestealers. But it took them from
2nd to 7th to just do one of those (adapt some Epic bio tanks).
I sold off a bunch of armies this past year as I was turning into a hoarder and streamlined things (for 40k at least) down to my Space Wolves and about 500pts of DG and Custodes.
If they gave Nids the Indomitus Necron treatment I would buy in day one.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
Honestly the only thing I really want from Nids model-wise is to modify the gaunts so they don't immediately snap off the base if you look at them funny and give Warriors rending claw arms that aren't disproportionate. Nids may have some old kits, but they hold up remarkably well.
But I’d be happy with a Shrike/Lictor kit, Dactylis/Malefactor kit and super ecstatic with a knight sized Dominatrix LoW.
Dunno how I feel about this tbh
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
I'm not a current 40k player but it sounds a fine idea to me from a design point of view. Allows you to have multiple different potential sources of +/- modifiers on rolls without worrying about someone stacking them to the point of breaking the system.
This is exactly the point of it. Common lists in 8th (like Eldar planes or Possessed lists) would stack modifiers to the point of breaking. I once had an Eldar player bitch and moan at me for an entire tournament match because my shield drones were "non-interactive" despite me needing a 7 on a D6 to hit him with nearly anything in my army.
Lemme know how you plan to paint those damn stripes on their helmets.
It's a necessary limitation because a d6 doesn't give you much space to work with. Switching to d20s would cause other issues, but you'd be able to allow modifiers to stack without them causing certain actions to become near impossible.
No fucking idea honestly. Probably just gonna have to go incredibly slowly with it. That's a while off though. Still waiting on a couple things before I can get them ready to paint.
I read that 8th Edition was the first time in decades where every army in the game had a current codex all at the same time.
As a person who had the -4 Lord Discordant protecting untargetable possessed yeah this is a good change.
Stacking buffs and debuffs in 9th were insane at the end. This and the move towards stuff like plasma being on unmodified 1s and explosions on unmodified 6s is good for the game. Even if it nerfing some of my stuff like the lord D that could explode on 4s. It was nuts.
Lemme know how you plan to paint those damn stripes on their helmets.[/quote]
I just helped my buddy with some of these. We did a Leadbelcher basecoat and then used Contrast paints: Iyanden Yellow and Talassar Blue IIRC. I used a size 1 brush with a nice point (synthetic brand from a local artshop, about $3-4), and did 2 coats. We didn't pay too much attention to the grooves between the stripes, but if I had to I'd probably do a brown ink pin wash. I didn't take any pictures unfortunately. As with any other detail work going slow is the key. I also press my palms together as I hold the mini to get even more control.
Like after some posts here in this thread I come around to the 2 wounds, but the range increase for the imperial weapons stuff still baffles me in connection with the new board sizes.
30" means you can easily shoot from your deployment zone into the opposite deployment zone in pretty much every mission as far as I can tell, no movement required.
Just my gut reaction. In real terms it probably doesn't change much with Primaris already being mostly at 30". Those 18" pistols though.
Sidenote: what's the over under for shuriken catapults to stay at 12"? Would be hilarious if they were to stay at flamer range.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.