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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Really I wait for the Codex for the Necrons as much has happened to them

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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Banshees got the 5 identical faces, right? What did the Incubi get? Same thing?

    qw9bm4k88cez.png

    Basically. They've got a bit more variation because of scarring differences, but you're still left with the question of why you'd want to run maskless Incubi.

    Hmm, yeah, the masks are kinda the best thing about the incubi design.
    I did not like how that mini had the klaives
    I will get what I did to mine later and take a pic {the box is buried and I am tired. I cut and filed the ribbons and turned the arms so the klaives are to the side more of a natural look then what it's like in that pose

    But yes I just use my incubi as they are when they run with the drukkari or ynnari
    I used the 1st release ones because my brother complained about running them a few games but yes that helm is iconic to the point I wave the extra helm I got as a prize to my brother to earn for his banner like how the orc skulls will hang on mine banner for the black templars for when I played last

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    BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    I think the majority of Necron buffs will be in the ruleset ant not the data sheets.

    I knew as soon as I posted something, a new leak would happen.

    Immortals got +1 Toughness, +1 Attack, and their Gauss got +6 inches. Both it and their Tesla are still Strength 5.

    Deathmarks can now shoot 36 inches, have a 2+ Ballistic Skill, +1 Toughness, and their weapon is -2 AP and Strength 5 now. I don't know what the symbol means next to it Heavy 1?! Their weapons are not Rapid Fire anymore.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Lots and lots of officially confirmed changes coming soon today:
    • Heavy Bolters now damage 2
    • Flamers and heavy flamers now range 12"
    • Melta now gain +2 damage in melta range
    • Multi-melta fires twice
    • Power swords get +1 S
    • Marine chainswords get AP-1
    • Supercharged plasma only overheats on an unmodified 1
    • All Space Marines (including Chaos) are now 2 wounds
    • Tactical Marines are now 18 points

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Making the boards smaller and weapon ranges longer (Primaris pistols, flamers). Why?
    Making a bunch of weapons even more deadly. Why?
    And then more wounds on everything. Why?

    I'm just baffled by the direction this is going.

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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    2 Wound Plague Marines are going to kick so much ass.

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    StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    I think the majority of Necron buffs will be in the ruleset ant not the data sheets.

    I knew as soon as I posted something, a new leak would happen.

    Immortals got +1 Toughness, +1 Attack, and their Gauss got +6 inches. Both it and their Tesla are still Strength 5.

    Deathmarks can now shoot 36 inches, have a 2+ Ballistic Skill, +1 Toughness, and their weapon is -2 AP and Strength 5 now. I don't know what the symbol means next to it Heavy 1?! Their weapons are not Rapid Fire anymore.

    Yea, I saw this an hour or so ago. I don't know the math so I don't know if toughness 5 is better than toughness 4 at 2 wounds but I feel like I would have preferred 2 wounds on Immortals.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Making the boards smaller and weapon ranges longer (Primaris pistols, flamers). Why?
    Making a bunch of weapons even more deadly. Why?
    And then more wounds on everything. Why?

    I'm just baffled by the direction this is going.

    Yeah, I don't get the design direction at all.

    I just know I'm absolutely not looking forward to playing Marines when they have a two Codex advantage and relatively huge stat buffs.

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    BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »

    Yea, I saw this an hour or so ago. I don't know the math so I don't know if toughness 5 is better than toughness 4 at 2 wounds but I feel like I would have preferred 2 wounds on Immortals.
    T5 is better. Everyone is gearing up to do 2 wounds. I'd rather them fail the wound then be T4 and die anyways.

    Burnage wrote: »

    Yeah, I don't get the design direction at all.

    I just know I'm absolutely not looking forward to playing Marines when they have a two Codex advantage and relatively huge stat buffs.

    I.....am choosing to be optimistic. It seems everything is getting tougher (either through toughness or wounds), melee and melee adjacent stuff is hitting harder, but shooting isn't (ignoring deathmarks as they sucked prior, they still do 1 damage), and the smaller maps......I think I can see what they're going for. They're trying to buff melee while making things last longer / be tougher. The range increases seem to be to give shooting something so melee doesn't roll over them.

    So, I THINK I see what they're going for. I don't know if they'll succeed.

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    Like this is a quote from the WarCom article:
    The Warhammer 40,000 rules team have also taken the opportunity to review every single unit and weapon profile for each army, and where they felt it was needed, dialled them up to 11. We’re not even joking!

    And the end of the article kinda confirms that this might be a Imperium only upgrade. Xenos are shit outta luck until they get a new codex.
    ‘But what about my lovely xenos army?’ we hear you cry. Don’t worry – your weaponry will get the same treatment! While most of their wargear may not be as ubiquitous as the Imperium’s mass-produced arsenal, their weapons will also be looked at too, when each of their codexes comes around.

    Edit:
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »

    Yea, I saw this an hour or so ago. I don't know the math so I don't know if toughness 5 is better than toughness 4 at 2 wounds but I feel like I would have preferred 2 wounds on Immortals.
    T5 is better. Everyone is gearing up to do 2 wounds. I'd rather them fail the wound then be T4 and die anyways.

    Burnage wrote: »

    Yeah, I don't get the design direction at all.

    I just know I'm absolutely not looking forward to playing Marines when they have a two Codex advantage and relatively huge stat buffs.

    I.....am choosing to be optimistic. It seems everything is getting tougher (either through toughness or wounds), melee and melee adjacent stuff is hitting harder, but shooting isn't (ignoring deathmarks as they sucked prior, they still do 1 damage), and the smaller maps......I think I can see what they're going for. They're trying to buff melee while making things last longer / be tougher. The range increases seem to be to give shooting something so melee doesn't roll over them.

    So, I THINK I see what they're going for. I don't know if they'll succeed.

    But shooting gets buffed, too? 2 shot multimelta. More damage for all melta. More damage for heavy bolters. More reliable Plasma, etc.

    Just more spectacle.

    honovere on
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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Hmmm Tau Crisis Suitd with better flamers andnmeltas are juicey too

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    BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    edited August 2020
    honovere wrote: »
    ‘But what about my lovely xenos army?’ we hear you cry. Don’t worry – your weaponry will get the same treatment! While most of their wargear may not be as ubiquitous as the Imperium’s mass-produced arsenal, their weapons will also be looked at too, when each of their codexes comes around.
    This is the big issue. I think everyone will get tougher in some way, melee and melee adjacent stuff becomes deadlier, shooting gets LONGER, but not really deadlier....but we have to wait for Codexes.

    That part sucks really badly.
    honovere wrote: »
    But shooting gets buffed, too? 2 shot multimelta. More damage for all melta. More damage for heavy bolters. More reliable Plasma, etc.

    Just more spectacle.
    Yeah, there's some head scratchers. More damaging heavy bolters confuse me a bit. Plasma is just consistency since modified rolls mess with people / are stupid, I'm ignoring that. It's consistent with them making a lot of rules unmodified.

    Meltas are weird.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »

    Yea, I saw this an hour or so ago. I don't know the math so I don't know if toughness 5 is better than toughness 4 at 2 wounds but I feel like I would have preferred 2 wounds on Immortals.
    T5 is better. Everyone is gearing up to do 2 wounds. I'd rather them fail the wound then be T4 and die anyways.

    Burnage wrote: »

    Yeah, I don't get the design direction at all.

    I just know I'm absolutely not looking forward to playing Marines when they have a two Codex advantage and relatively huge stat buffs.

    I.....am choosing to be optimistic. It seems everything is getting tougher (either through toughness or wounds), melee and melee adjacent stuff is hitting harder, but shooting isn't (ignoring deathmarks as they sucked prior, they still do 1 damage), and the smaller maps......I think I can see what they're going for. They're trying to buff melee while making things last longer / be tougher. The range increases seem to be to give shooting something so melee doesn't roll over them.

    So, I THINK I see what they're going for. I don't know if they'll succeed.

    Shooting is absolutely getting deadlier? Heavy bolters are doubling in damage. Flamers are going to be capable of going woooosh straight out of deep strike. Meltas hit harder and fire more often.

    My fragile army is looking at all this and already exploding.

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    McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    Bringing more multi-wound infantry and multi-damage weapons into the game is a good thing. They're not just increasing everything across the board, they're using more of their game system to design for different interactions. For example, a guardsman vs a marine had only two brackets to differentiate how durable they are (toughness and save). Now they have 3 (wounds). Each of those things can be interacted with a different way (strength, AP, and damage). If there are more multiwound infantry, there is more a role for anti-elite weapons (see new heavy bolter) rather than just anti-infantry and anti-vehicle.
    Also, marines are the core stat of the game. Everything is measured against them. So changes to marines ultimately mean changes for everyone else.

    Also everyone complaining that marines just turned into an ultra-durable fighting force because of these extra wounds.... have they not been fighting all-primaris armies since the start of 8th? Marines wont get any MORE durable, they were already the 2W army in the game.

    Sucks that xenos players will have to wait for codexes to get in line, but overall I think these changes are really good for the game. Whens the last time 40k had a shakeup of the core weaponset and statlines?

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Higher baseline values allows for more variance

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    The basic Tactical Space Marine profile hasn’t changed since 2nd edition with one exception; they used to be 4 movement. Oh and have an initiative value, but then so did everyone else.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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    BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »

    Shooting is absolutely getting deadlier? Heavy bolters are doubling in damage. Flamers are going to be capable of going woooosh straight out of deep strike. Meltas hit harder and fire more often.

    My fragile army is looking at all this and already exploding.

    Yeah, heavy bolters is the only thing that confuses me. Flamers are melee adjacent / close range, though. That's what I was getting at. It's not that there will be zero ranged weapons that can hurt people, just the overall idea is to make people tougher and make people get into melee more....

    But it'll be rough until people get Codexes. i.e., once again, video games are better.

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    CSM I feel are getting more out of this than loyalist. 2W CSM and Cult units. 3W chaos termis, scarab termis, and DG termis. Possibly 3w possessed.

    Its a lot of buffs making CSM feel more powerful and harder to move. Cultist are being pushed more to side even with the possible increase in points.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Higher baseline values allows for more variance

    Yeah, like we can see this in this very update.

    Against s4, immortals being t5 and marines being 2 wounds maths out the same. But when you're up against a new improved heavy bolter immortals are better, because the second wound is irrelevant whilst the extra toughness very much is. You flip it and have some new deathmarks shooting, and suddenly the marine is better. It's way more design space to play with.

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    BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Basically, I like / am probably imagining I see where they're going with this, but they really need an Index to tide over the armies before their Codexes arrive.

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Also I am curious about repointing. Plague Marines with the DG buffs from PA are going to feel oppressive. 2W 3+/4+++ rerolling 1s and 2s on the 4+++ are going to be insane to move off anything. Just absolutely oppressive. Also they are T5.

    I do like the expansion in design space. I mean Autocannons and Heavy Bolters feel like a choice for CSM now. Do I want the extra strength for the cost of a shot or the other way around? Stuff like that is good.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Higher baseline values allows for more variance

    Yeah, like we can see this in this very update.

    Against s4, immortals being t5 and marines being 2 wounds maths out the same. But when you're up against a new improved heavy bolter immortals are better, because the second wound is irrelevant whilst the extra toughness very much is. You flip it and have some new deathmarks shooting, and suddenly the marine is better. It's way more design space to play with.

    Yes. This exactly.
    you can get 4 guardsmen for 1 marine.
    1 heavy bolter bolt will kill that marine, but even all 3 bolts will not kill 4 guardsmen.

    website_header.jpg
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    NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Glad the immortal leaks happened before I bought and assembled two boxes tomorrow. Would have sucked to build tesla ones when there is an actual choice now. I'm trending towards the gauss just being better now.

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    BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Glad the immortal leaks happened before I bought and assembled two boxes tomorrow. Would have sucked to build tesla ones when there is an actual choice now. I'm trending towards the gauss just being better now.
    Tesla is still better until the Gauss gets into rapid fire. It's actually a hard choice they present to you, which is good.

    ***

    The end of the article seems to indicate something close to an Index, maybe?

    unknown.png


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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Norgoth wrote: »
    Glad the immortal leaks happened before I bought and assembled two boxes tomorrow. Would have sucked to build tesla ones when there is an actual choice now. I'm trending towards the gauss just being better now.
    Tesla is still better until the Gauss gets into rapid fire. It's actually a hard choice they present to you, which is good.

    ***

    The end of the article seems to indicate something close to an Index, maybe?

    unknown.png


    This feels like them using the app in a way it should be used. Because I figure that is what they are going to push the update with.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    McGibs wrote: »
    Bringing more multi-wound infantry and multi-damage weapons into the game is a good thing. They're not just increasing everything across the board, they're using more of their game system to design for different interactions. For example, a guardsman vs a marine had only two brackets to differentiate how durable they are (toughness and save). Now they have 3 (wounds). Each of those things can be interacted with a different way (strength, AP, and damage). If there are more multiwound infantry, there is more a role for anti-elite weapons (see new heavy bolter) rather than just anti-infantry and anti-vehicle.
    Also, marines are the core stat of the game. Everything is measured against them. So changes to marines ultimately mean changes for everyone else.

    Also everyone complaining that marines just turned into an ultra-durable fighting force because of these extra wounds.... have they not been fighting all-primaris armies since the start of 8th? Marines wont get any MORE durable, they were already the 2W army in the game.

    Sucks that xenos players will have to wait for codexes to get in line, but overall I think these changes are really good for the game. Whens the last time 40k had a shakeup of the core weaponset and statlines?

    Possibly good in the long run, but right now it’s probably not a good thing that a lot of armies have had their points changed but only a few of them have gained anything from it. Sure most people were geared up for dealing with 2W models, but they were doing that with the old points. I dunno if things will work out at the new values.

    I’m also not sure what will happen for the space elves. More wounds or toughness is a bit off brand, and there’s a limit to what better saves can do. Funky special rules I guess, but those don’t fit into the kit boxes.

    Deep strike at 9” with a burninate range of 12” is gonna be nasty.

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    BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    I'm wondering if Eldar don't get universal -1 to hit, because you're right, + wounds or toughness feels off.

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    NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    I'm most intrigued by what they'll do with Ork Boyz.

    Like, making them 2 wounds seem obnoxious.

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Norgoth wrote: »
    I'm most intrigued by what they'll do with Ork Boyz.

    Like, making them 2 wounds seem obnoxious.

    I would like more like a mob up rule that if you lost boyz each turn you roll and maybe get a few more as more join the horde replacing lost boyz.

    Kind of like a resurrection protocols but for boyz only and make it like an inverse morale bit.

    I don't think they will get 2 wounds.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Norgoth wrote: »
    I'm most intrigued by what they'll do with Ork Boyz.

    Like, making them 2 wounds seem obnoxious.

    I would like more like a mob up rule that if you lost boyz each turn you roll and maybe get a few more as more join the horde replacing lost boyz.

    Kind of like a resurrection protocols but for boyz only and make it like an inverse morale bit.

    I don't think they will get 2 wounds.

    This would be fluffy and an awesome buff

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    BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Mazzyx, please leave your government job, move to the UK, and join GW k thx.

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    NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Khraul wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Norgoth wrote: »
    I'm most intrigued by what they'll do with Ork Boyz.

    Like, making them 2 wounds seem obnoxious.

    I would like more like a mob up rule that if you lost boyz each turn you roll and maybe get a few more as more join the horde replacing lost boyz.

    Kind of like a resurrection protocols but for boyz only and make it like an inverse morale bit.

    I don't think they will get 2 wounds.

    This would be fluffy and an awesome buff

    Do it like demons.

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    PhotosaurusPhotosaurus Bay Area, CARegistered User regular
    Got a decent deal on 20 poxwalkers on ebay, and it appears one of them was used to try and introduce someone's child or younger sibling to the hobby.

    9tgiocilm5e3.jpg

    Honestly, a properly done poxwalker clown would be terrifying.

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    DayspringDayspring the Phoenician Registered User regular
    Give me 2 wound boyz, you cowards
    2 WOUND BOYZ, 2 WIUND BOYZ, 2 WOUND BOYZ

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    DayspringDayspring the Phoenician Registered User regular
    Also this is the first time in several editions its made me think about pulling out my Emperor’s Children again. Just a fluffy 1k force with noise marines, cms units in rhinos, terminators or havocs or raptors...thats what i wantttt

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Dayspring wrote: »
    Also this is the first time in several editions its made me think about pulling out my Emperor’s Children again. Just a fluffy 1k force with noise marines, cms units in rhinos, terminators or havocs or raptors...thats what i wantttt

    EC are in a really good space right now.

    Noise marines are expensive but really good.

    Honor the prince turning a die into a 6 when charging is amazing.

    They have good warlord traits and some great relics.

    Their trait actually matters now!

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Boyz are a classic horde unit, 2W feels like a step in the wrong direction there - plus there's already 2W boyz in nobz!

    Now chunkier battlesuits on the otherhand...

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Yeah crisis suits need another wound minimum if this is the way things are going

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    The Tau guns will definitely change. Imagine things like some AP on Pulse weapons, another damage on Burst Cannons or SMS, plenty of room to grow.

    A change the Marker Light table would also be welcome. Perhaps they even go back to letting you fire them all pre-shooting like the old days. It's time.

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    No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Dayspring wrote: »
    Also this is the first time in several editions its made me think about pulling out my Emperor’s Children again. Just a fluffy 1k force with noise marines, cms units in rhinos, terminators or havocs or raptors...thats what i wantttt

    EC are in a really good space right now.

    Noise marines are expensive but really good.

    Honor the prince turning a die into a 6 when charging is amazing.

    They have good warlord traits and some great relics.

    Their trait actually matters now!

    I see Sonic Weapons changing quite a bit.

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