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Wage Theft [solved]

Mmmm... Cocks...Mmmm... Cocks... Registered User regular
edited June 2020 in Help / Advice Forum
So during the Covid thing my job decided to permanently close the department I work for. It wasn't a big deal, they gave us plenty of notice and I started a job the Monday after finishing my old job Friday. It went super smooth.

When they told us during a conference call about closing I asked about my PTO time and they said it would be paid out. After that I followed up with someone asking the same question, they informed me I'd be paid out. I then followed up again with someone asking about my personal days, they said those wouldn't be paid and I should use them. Great, thanks for telling me (just kidding, I had to hunt you down).

I finally got my final check and found they paid me minimum wage for those PTO hours I accrued. I purposely saved them to get a nice check, nobody ever informed me in any way.
I'm sure it's technically legal, but at what point are they willfully not telling me the details? I live in Pennsylvania.

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    dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    NVM

    dispatch.o on
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    KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    A quick google check tells me that PA is not a state where companies are required to pay out PTO.

    It sucks, but honestly I don't think there's anything to be done here.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    What does your contract and/or the company manual actually say about paying out PTO?

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    MulysaSemproniusMulysaSempronius but also susie nyRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    What does your contract and/or the company manual actually say about paying out PTO?

    Or, did you get anything specific in writing?
    Look up your states labor department website, and find out what the rules are. You can probably even email them for clarification.

    If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    A quick Googling is showing that while is no state law in PA for paid time off, employers are required to actually follow the policies they have. So get a copy of the employment policy from the company you worked at, as well as a copy of your contract and your personnel file - it is a state law that they have to grant you access to view your own personnel file.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    A quick Googling is showing that while is no state law in PA for paid time off, employers are required to actually follow the policies they have. So get a copy of the employment policy from the company you worked at, as well as a copy of your contract and your personnel file - it is a state law that they have to grant you access to view your own personnel file.

    More importantly, get the one you signed off on when you were hired or agreed to the changes to. Many of them update silently but you're not generally bound by it unless you acknowledge changes (if your contract isn't shit).

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    You can also leave some warnings to future prospects at that job on GlassDoor. It won't do much to get you paid, but it'll warn others that they pulled something like that on you, a heads up to those who might work there/currently working there and don't know about the practice.

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    Mmmm... Cocks...Mmmm... Cocks... Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    I contacted HR this morning and requested documents. Of course nobody is really in the offices due to covid so it might take some time.

    The guy did inform me however that I seem to have been collecting the wrong pay. We have a billable and nonbillable pay rate (for when training etc). All nonworking hours should be paid at that rate (including my PTO and personal days)
    I worked there two years and always collected my regular pay and even on my penultimate check (where I used a personal day and 1 hour of PTO) was paid at my full rate. He kindly said they wouldn't come after that money. 🙄

    I guess I'll have to wait and see what this paperwork says. I'm sure I have no recourse. It just comes at a bad time and me doing the legwork to ask several people about it (including going to HR) only to get snubbed really stings.

    Edit: so not long after that call he called me back and told me they're going to pay me my usual full pay for all the hours. I'm unsure if it was out of human decency, or if they dug out that paperwork and realized they dropped the ball.
    Either way, thanks as always for the solid advice guys!

    Mmmm... Cocks... on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Are you a 1099 contractor (you're not because you have PTO)? Because that's not a thing unless you have shit like sales goals and work on commission.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    Mmmm... Cocks...Mmmm... Cocks... Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Are you a 1099 contractor (you're not because you have PTO)? Because that's not a thing unless you have shit like sales goals and work on commission.
    I'm pretty sure I wasn't (funny enough I am at my new job though)
    I was a DSP, working directly with special needs adults. So any time we weren't working with a client it was minimum wage (CPR training, meetings etc)

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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    edit: so not long after that call he called me back and told me they're going to pay me my usual full pay for all the hours. I'm unsure if it was out of human decency, or if they dug out that paperwork and realized they dropped the ball.
    Either way, thanks as always for the solid advice guys!

    When in doubt, you're not getting human decency from HR.
    Most likely it's "We're pretty sure most people are going to take their check and run and be grateful for it, anyone who asks we'll cut them a bigger check so they don't sue us for violating a contract..."
    I'd still go ahead with that whole "posting it on glass door" thing as well as copies of all your documentation, maybe also reach out to your coworkers that also lost their jobs with the department and let them know as well to double check their last pay stub.

    see317 on
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    I mean it's likely a breach of contract,"we are going to lay you off, but in exchange we are going to pay you your PTO" Offer, acceptance, consideration, if you want to go through the bother of a small claims court. Often serving them papers is enough to get them to give back your money. Calling the department of labor is usually somewhat effective, but they are likely slammed. If you've got time for a filing fee of 60 bucks. You can fuck up a lot of peoples days. If I was a vindictive sort, I might serve the head of the division/branch/company directly.

    Now go to your employment package, pay stubs and offer letter, and make sure they weren't overpaying you. If they were actually overpaying you, they could have a counterclaim.

    Make enough noise and draw enough heat and they'll pay you what you are owed to go away, but you have to be loud. Any legal action and you should consult an attorney.

    zepherin on
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    I mean it's likely a breach of contract,"we are going to lay you off, but in exchange we are going to pay you your PTO" Offer, acceptance, consideration, if you want to go through the bother of a small claims court. Often serving them papers is enough to get them to give back your money. Calling the department of labor is usually somewhat effective, but they are likely slammed. If you've got time for a filing fee of 60 bucks. You can fuck up a lot of peoples days. If I was a vindictive sort, I might serve the head of the division/branch/company directly.

    Now go to your employment package, pay stubs and offer letter, and make sure they weren't overpaying you. If they were actually overpaying you, they could have a counterclaim.

    Make enough noise and draw enough heat and they'll pay you what you are owed to go away, but you have to be loud. Any legal action and you should consult an attorney.

    They have no counterclaim for overpaying, that's on them entirely if they fuck up. You can willfully pay it back as an employee, but generally there's no recourse, especially if you've been doing it for more than a few pay periods.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    bowen wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    I mean it's likely a breach of contract,"we are going to lay you off, but in exchange we are going to pay you your PTO" Offer, acceptance, consideration, if you want to go through the bother of a small claims court. Often serving them papers is enough to get them to give back your money. Calling the department of labor is usually somewhat effective, but they are likely slammed. If you've got time for a filing fee of 60 bucks. You can fuck up a lot of peoples days. If I was a vindictive sort, I might serve the head of the division/branch/company directly.

    Now go to your employment package, pay stubs and offer letter, and make sure they weren't overpaying you. If they were actually overpaying you, they could have a counterclaim.

    Make enough noise and draw enough heat and they'll pay you what you are owed to go away, but you have to be loud. Any legal action and you should consult an attorney.

    They have no counterclaim for overpaying, that's on them entirely if they fuck up. You can willfully pay it back as an employee, but generally there's no recourse, especially if you've been doing it for more than a few pay periods.
    Depends on the state. Some states have protections, other states don't. It is something the Federal government should have, but they can file a claim against an employee for over payment...it is generally never done because it's almost impossible to collect on account of the plebs being judgement proof. They are not allowed to deduct the money from the check without permission. What is definitely important is if the offer letter and the employee manual that was signed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evjHfgrSr6Y&feature=emb_title


    Now the strategy I used when a company didn't pay my PTO and was being shady with it, was to simply be loud and persistent, and inform them I would call all their clients and tell them that they had not paid me money I was owed (which is admittedly differently when I'm telling them I'm calling contracting officers, but it was effective)

    zepherin on
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    GdiguyGdiguy San Diego, CARegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    zepherin wrote: »
    I mean it's likely a breach of contract,"we are going to lay you off, but in exchange we are going to pay you your PTO" Offer, acceptance, consideration, if you want to go through the bother of a small claims court. Often serving them papers is enough to get them to give back your money. Calling the department of labor is usually somewhat effective, but they are likely slammed. If you've got time for a filing fee of 60 bucks. You can fuck up a lot of peoples days. If I was a vindictive sort, I might serve the head of the division/branch/company directly.

    Now go to your employment package, pay stubs and offer letter, and make sure they weren't overpaying you. If they were actually overpaying you, they could have a counterclaim.

    Make enough noise and draw enough heat and they'll pay you what you are owed to go away, but you have to be loud. Any legal action and you should consult an attorney.

    They have no counterclaim for overpaying, that's on them entirely if they fuck up. You can willfully pay it back as an employee, but generally there's no recourse, especially if you've been doing it for more than a few pay periods.

    I don't believe that's true (based on research I did when dealing with a similar thing a year or so ago)... there's a lot of rules on HOW an over-payment can be dealt with (i.e. can't simply be garnished from paychecks, etc), but if they wanted to pursue it by filing in small claims court I believe ultimately legally you would be required to repay (obviously this assumes that it's actually legitimate, which I'm not making any statement about in this case)

    e.g. an article on CA (which has more employee protections than most states) - https://www.calpeculiarities.com/2019/10/02/no-money-back-guarantee/

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