I agree with Darke.
Cycle is, they either deal with the foxes or you win, then they deal with the zeniths and you win/lose there instead.
There's no interaction with the other deck, besides maybe forcing you to Zenith one of their dudes instead of their face.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Cycling isn't anywhere near close to 'zero decision making' or autopilot. You're thinking of cascade, where a seven year old can win a 32-man tournament.
Getting to diamond is mostly about playing fast games. Naya Warriors with Winota, Snow Hateful Eidolon, and Korvold Food have been pretty good to me, really any 55% deck will get to diamond+ just by going 50/50 and getting free wins off of disconnects and bad plays/hands.
SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
edited March 2021
All decks are autopilot aside from the one decision that matters, which is whether or not to mulligan.
I made a significant upgrade to my deck in the form of purchasing the planeswalker cosmetics. The original Kaya is a bit doofy looking imo but the borderless art is sick as heck.
I kinda want the Koma one just because but I think the original art is slightly better.
e: wow apparently that card art is a hefty debuff because I went 4-6 for the evening. I did have someone Valki a Koma on turn 5, only to have me play the other Koma in my hand, tap the Valki during their upkeep before they played their 6th land to prevent it from becoming Koma, which then allowed me to kill it and get my Koma back on my next turn.
There are times when you pick a thing. It's still an autopilot deck.
How many decisions does it take before a deck goes from autopilot deck to non-autopilot deck
Probably having more than one win condition for starters.
Yes, technically it has two with embercleave maybe.
Fox, Stinger, Rescuer, Zenith Flare.
Stinger just accelerates Zenith, and Rescuer can flood the board with chump blockers, but I'm not sure how threatening that is.
It gets pretty threatening considering it's making a 1/1 during every damn turn.
I don't know.
Seems like a T2 Fox, which is closer to the boardwipe, that can't attack into big things.
It's pressure certainly, but I don't know if I'd call it a wincon.
You can cycle on your opponent's turn for an additional 1/1. Drop Rescuer on turn 4 after the board wipe, cycle, pass turn, cycle. You've now got 5 damage worth of meat on the board, plus whatever damage you got off with stingers and foxes.
Really though, boardwipes are ass in this standard. Doomskar is barely tolerable, and the only other good one is Extinction Event.
There are times when you pick a thing. It's still an autopilot deck.
How many decisions does it take before a deck goes from autopilot deck to non-autopilot deck
Probably having more than one win condition for starters.
Yes, technically it has two with embercleave maybe.
Fox, Stinger, Rescuer, Zenith Flare.
Stinger just accelerates Zenith, and Rescuer can flood the board with chump blockers, but I'm not sure how threatening that is.
It gets pretty threatening considering it's making a 1/1 during every damn turn.
I don't know.
Seems like a T2 Fox, which is closer to the boardwipe, that can't attack into big things.
It's pressure certainly, but I don't know if I'd call it a wincon.
You can cycle on your opponent's turn for an additional 1/1. Drop Rescuer on turn 4 after the board wipe, cycle, pass turn, cycle. You've now got 5 damage worth of meat on the board, plus whatever damage you got off with stingers and foxes.
Really though, boardwipes are ass in this standard. Doomskar is barely tolerable, and the only other good one is Extinction Event.
Doomskar is astoundingly good. 3 cmc for a wrath? If wrath is your plan while you use non creature based ramp it's an amazing card. What more could you possibly want? Asymmetric wrath for 3 cmc?
Shatter the Sky is also super good, since 4 mana wreaths aren't super rare, and even the red wrath is pretty good.
When you compare it to a couple years back when you could get 2 damage to all creatures or a 5 mana wrath, we're on a high point for wrath in standard.
Shatter the Sky is also super good, since 4 mana wreaths aren't super rare, and even the red wrath is pretty good.
When you compare it to a couple years back when you could get 2 damage to all creatures or a 5 mana wrath, we're on a high point for wrath in standard.
Honeslty I think it might be the best wrath options ever in standard? Doomskar has so many great advantages. Foretell it early and get it safely into the exile zone so noone can make you discard it. You can do the foretelling on your opponents turn too, so you can hold up mana for an instant and foretell in response to a discard effect etc if you have multiple instants of relevance in hand. Or even just for a useful bluff.
Clearly there are sometimes advantages to more limited wraths, because you can play around them, but extinction event is still legal and so is shatter the sky. Or there's cheap weenie board wiping with that 1 damage to everyone red spell.
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
edited March 2021
You can foretell on your opponent's turn?!?
e: the rules seem to be only on your turn, which is what I thought
SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
edited March 2021
The more important question is: how do we kill the Batmen (rogues)?
I got a 6 for 1 Crippling Fear off against one after baiting out their counterspell at the end of their turn and then next turn they played Into the Story and calmly finished milling my deck over the next few turns.
e: I'm just playing Bo1 for now so is there anything mainboard worthy that can deal with them? I almost always end up getting milled to death rather than going to 0.
In BO3 you gotta be betting agaisnt your Zenith Flare eating a negate
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The more important question is: how do we kill the Batmen (rogues)?
I got a 6 for 1 Crippling Fear off against one after baiting out their counterspell at the end of their turn and then next turn they played Into the Story and calmly finished milling my deck over the next few turns.
e: I'm just playing Bo1 for now so is there anything mainboard worthy that can deal with them? I almost always end up getting milled to death rather than going to 0.
What kind of deck are you playing, exactly?
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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SurfpossumA nonentitytrying to preserve the anonymity he so richly deserves.Registered Userregular
The more important question is: how do we kill the Batmen (rogues)?
I got a 6 for 1 Crippling Fear off against one after baiting out their counterspell at the end of their turn and then next turn they played Into the Story and calmly finished milling my deck over the next few turns.
e: I'm just playing Bo1 for now so is there anything mainboard worthy that can deal with them? I almost always end up getting milled to death rather than going to 0.
What kind of deck are you playing, exactly?
I've been thinking maybe I should just... make the deck bigger. Bump a bunch of stuff to 4 copies, add in more counterspells, etc.
And also get that UG druid guy that lets you dig up creatures.
There are times when you pick a thing. It's still an autopilot deck.
How many decisions does it take before a deck goes from autopilot deck to non-autopilot deck
Probably having more than one win condition for starters.
Yes, technically it has two with embercleave maybe.
Fox, Stinger, Rescuer, Zenith Flare.
Stinger just accelerates Zenith, and Rescuer can flood the board with chump blockers, but I'm not sure how threatening that is.
It gets pretty threatening considering it's making a 1/1 during every damn turn.
I don't know.
Seems like a T2 Fox, which is closer to the boardwipe, that can't attack into big things.
It's pressure certainly, but I don't know if I'd call it a wincon.
You can cycle on your opponent's turn for an additional 1/1. Drop Rescuer on turn 4 after the board wipe, cycle, pass turn, cycle. You've now got 5 damage worth of meat on the board, plus whatever damage you got off with stingers and foxes.
Really though, boardwipes are ass in this standard. Doomskar is barely tolerable, and the only other good one is Extinction Event.
Doomskar is astoundingly good. 3 cmc for a wrath? If wrath is your plan while you use non creature based ramp it's an amazing card. What more could you possibly want? Asymmetric wrath for 3 cmc?
Doomskar is great if you have it turn two, with untapped lands. It's only 'astoundingly good' if you can cast it on turn 3, which is less than 50% of the time. Otherwise it's a turn 5 wrath, which is ass when 40% of decks can reliably lethal you on turn 4/flash creatures out/have indestructible.
There are times when you pick a thing. It's still an autopilot deck.
How many decisions does it take before a deck goes from autopilot deck to non-autopilot deck
Probably having more than one win condition for starters.
Yes, technically it has two with embercleave maybe.
Fox, Stinger, Rescuer, Zenith Flare.
Stinger just accelerates Zenith, and Rescuer can flood the board with chump blockers, but I'm not sure how threatening that is.
It gets pretty threatening considering it's making a 1/1 during every damn turn.
I don't know.
Seems like a T2 Fox, which is closer to the boardwipe, that can't attack into big things.
It's pressure certainly, but I don't know if I'd call it a wincon.
You can cycle on your opponent's turn for an additional 1/1. Drop Rescuer on turn 4 after the board wipe, cycle, pass turn, cycle. You've now got 5 damage worth of meat on the board, plus whatever damage you got off with stingers and foxes.
Really though, boardwipes are ass in this standard. Doomskar is barely tolerable, and the only other good one is Extinction Event.
Doomskar is astoundingly good. 3 cmc for a wrath? If wrath is your plan while you use non creature based ramp it's an amazing card. What more could you possibly want? Asymmetric wrath for 3 cmc?
Doomskar is great if you have it turn two, with untapped lands. It's only 'astoundingly good' if you can cast it on turn 3, which is less than 50% of the time. Otherwise it's a turn 5 wrath, which is ass when 40% of decks can reliably lethal you on turn 4/flash creatures out/have indestructible.
If you are playing wrath’s, you should be running 3 or 4 doomskars. Doomkar is a turn 3 wrath. You should have one in hand, alongside 2 or 3 lands and your non creature plan or you should mulligan.
If you are complaining about turn 3 kills, your problem is not wrath’s being too weak
"That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Shatter the Sky is also super good, since 4 mana wreaths aren't super rare, and even the red wrath is pretty good.
When you compare it to a couple years back when you could get 2 damage to all creatures or a 5 mana wrath, we're on a high point for wrath in standard.
Honeslty I think it might be the best wrath options ever in standard? Doomskar has so many great advantages. Foretell it early and get it safely into the exile zone so noone can make you discard it. You can do the foretelling on your opponents turn too, so you can hold up mana for an instant and foretell in response to a discard effect etc if you have multiple instants of relevance in hand. Or even just for a useful bluff.
Clearly there are sometimes advantages to more limited wraths, because you can play around them, but extinction event is still legal and so is shatter the sky. Or there's cheap weenie board wiping with that 1 damage to everyone red spell.
Doomskar is a good Wrath but Supreme Verdict is the best Standard-legal Wrath in recent history.
There are times when you pick a thing. It's still an autopilot deck.
How many decisions does it take before a deck goes from autopilot deck to non-autopilot deck
Probably having more than one win condition for starters.
Yes, technically it has two with embercleave maybe.
Fox, Stinger, Rescuer, Zenith Flare.
Stinger just accelerates Zenith, and Rescuer can flood the board with chump blockers, but I'm not sure how threatening that is.
It gets pretty threatening considering it's making a 1/1 during every damn turn.
I don't know.
Seems like a T2 Fox, which is closer to the boardwipe, that can't attack into big things.
It's pressure certainly, but I don't know if I'd call it a wincon.
You can cycle on your opponent's turn for an additional 1/1. Drop Rescuer on turn 4 after the board wipe, cycle, pass turn, cycle. You've now got 5 damage worth of meat on the board, plus whatever damage you got off with stingers and foxes.
Really though, boardwipes are ass in this standard. Doomskar is barely tolerable, and the only other good one is Extinction Event.
Doomskar is astoundingly good. 3 cmc for a wrath? If wrath is your plan while you use non creature based ramp it's an amazing card. What more could you possibly want? Asymmetric wrath for 3 cmc?
Doomskar is great if you have it turn two, with untapped lands. It's only 'astoundingly good' if you can cast it on turn 3, which is less than 50% of the time. Otherwise it's a turn 5 wrath, which is ass when 40% of decks can reliably lethal you on turn 4/flash creatures out/have indestructible.
If you are playing wrath’s, you should be running 3 or 4 doomskars. Doomkar is a turn 3 wrath. You should have one in hand, alongside 2 or 3 lands and your non creature plan or you should mulligan.
If you are complaining about turn 3 kills, your problem is not wrath’s being too weak
I feel like my point isn't getting across. Doomskar is fine. Wrath effects in (the current) standard are garbage. Doomskar is garbage because [~4mana to clear all/most creatures] is not enough in (the current) standard to dissuade or defeat aggro. Too much equipment, land creatures, flash, etc.
Shatter the Sky is also super good, since 4 mana wreaths aren't super rare, and even the red wrath is pretty good.
When you compare it to a couple years back when you could get 2 damage to all creatures or a 5 mana wrath, we're on a high point for wrath in standard.
Honeslty I think it might be the best wrath options ever in standard? Doomskar has so many great advantages. Foretell it early and get it safely into the exile zone so noone can make you discard it. You can do the foretelling on your opponents turn too, so you can hold up mana for an instant and foretell in response to a discard effect etc if you have multiple instants of relevance in hand. Or even just for a useful bluff.
Clearly there are sometimes advantages to more limited wraths, because you can play around them, but extinction event is still legal and so is shatter the sky. Or there's cheap weenie board wiping with that 1 damage to everyone red spell.
Doomskar is a good Wrath but Supreme Verdict is the best Standard-legal Wrath in recent history.
Shatter the Sky is also super good, since 4 mana wreaths aren't super rare, and even the red wrath is pretty good.
When you compare it to a couple years back when you could get 2 damage to all creatures or a 5 mana wrath, we're on a high point for wrath in standard.
Honeslty I think it might be the best wrath options ever in standard? Doomskar has so many great advantages. Foretell it early and get it safely into the exile zone so noone can make you discard it. You can do the foretelling on your opponents turn too, so you can hold up mana for an instant and foretell in response to a discard effect etc if you have multiple instants of relevance in hand. Or even just for a useful bluff.
Clearly there are sometimes advantages to more limited wraths, because you can play around them, but extinction event is still legal and so is shatter the sky. Or there's cheap weenie board wiping with that 1 damage to everyone red spell.
Doomskar is a good Wrath but Supreme Verdict is the best Standard-legal Wrath in recent history.
You have an interesting definition of "recent".
Man, Wrath of God still feels recent to me. Can't believe they haven't reprinted it in 12 years. I feel like I was making friends cry just yesterday as my foil M10 wrath killed all their stupid fucking goblins. Fuck siege-gang commander.
God I hate being in gold rank. All the brain dead players copying the same 3 decks. Course, run into that shit all the time even higher.
Come up with your own shit, people!
Hitting mono-white with Lurrus disenchantment in platinum.
Just taught someone that indestructible Hallowblades don't like being on -1 toughness.
I mind so much more when I lose to someone misplaying their (usually meta-)deck instead.
I've been out of the loop for a while and don't feel like doing research so somebody recommend me a standard deck or three please.
Things I like:
- going down to 5 and then stabilizing
- activated abilities
- playing cards again (bounce or recursion)
- green
- tokens
- resilient dudes
tia
You probably want gruul adventures.
Hmmmm intriguing but I've decided I want to play Koma.
I was in a match against mono white. I attacked with my Questing Beast (green 4/4 with death touch). My opponent blocked with a 4/4 and sacrificed Alseid to give it protection against green. His 4/4 still died. I thought I had to deal at least 1 damage to it for death touch to work?
Posts
Probably having more than one win condition for starters.
Yes, technically it has two with embercleave maybe.
Cycle is, they either deal with the foxes or you win, then they deal with the zeniths and you win/lose there instead.
There's no interaction with the other deck, besides maybe forcing you to Zenith one of their dudes instead of their face.
...that's also pretty true for lots of decks. If you ARE pressuring it, then things can get surprisingly interesting for them.
Or you can just sit back with a counterspell ready and both autopilot.
Fox, Stinger, Rescuer, Zenith Flare.
Stinger just accelerates Zenith, and Rescuer can flood the board with chump blockers, but I'm not sure how threatening that is.
Which also means the list changes sometimes to incorporate other 2 cost cycling cards that you might want to actually cast.
Just had a game of Lurrus disenchantment vs Lurrus runes.
Both couldn't find our Hateful Edilon or Lurruseses.
Pretty dumb match.
I've seen some builds run Irencrag Pyromancer. That was rude.
It gets pretty threatening considering it's making a 1/1 during every damn turn.
Getting to diamond is mostly about playing fast games. Naya Warriors with Winota, Snow Hateful Eidolon, and Korvold Food have been pretty good to me, really any 55% deck will get to diamond+ just by going 50/50 and getting free wins off of disconnects and bad plays/hands.
I don't know.
Seems like a T2 Fox, which is closer to the boardwipe, that can't attack into big things.
It's pressure certainly, but I don't know if I'd call it a wincon.
I made a significant upgrade to my deck in the form of purchasing the planeswalker cosmetics. The original Kaya is a bit doofy looking imo but the borderless art is sick as heck.
I kinda want the Koma one just because but I think the original art is slightly better.
e: wow apparently that card art is a hefty debuff because I went 4-6 for the evening. I did have someone Valki a Koma on turn 5, only to have me play the other Koma in my hand, tap the Valki during their upkeep before they played their 6th land to prevent it from becoming Koma, which then allowed me to kill it and get my Koma back on my next turn.
Koma! Pretty good.
You can cycle on your opponent's turn for an additional 1/1. Drop Rescuer on turn 4 after the board wipe, cycle, pass turn, cycle. You've now got 5 damage worth of meat on the board, plus whatever damage you got off with stingers and foxes.
Really though, boardwipes are ass in this standard. Doomskar is barely tolerable, and the only other good one is Extinction Event.
Doomskar is astoundingly good. 3 cmc for a wrath? If wrath is your plan while you use non creature based ramp it's an amazing card. What more could you possibly want? Asymmetric wrath for 3 cmc?
When you compare it to a couple years back when you could get 2 damage to all creatures or a 5 mana wrath, we're on a high point for wrath in standard.
Honeslty I think it might be the best wrath options ever in standard? Doomskar has so many great advantages. Foretell it early and get it safely into the exile zone so noone can make you discard it. You can do the foretelling on your opponents turn too, so you can hold up mana for an instant and foretell in response to a discard effect etc if you have multiple instants of relevance in hand. Or even just for a useful bluff.
Clearly there are sometimes advantages to more limited wraths, because you can play around them, but extinction event is still legal and so is shatter the sky. Or there's cheap weenie board wiping with that 1 damage to everyone red spell.
e: the rules seem to be only on your turn, which is what I thought
There's a card in the set that lets you foretell whenever I think but I can't remember the name, might be some kind of ghost horse?
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
I got a 6 for 1 Crippling Fear off against one after baiting out their counterspell at the end of their turn and then next turn they played Into the Story and calmly finished milling my deck over the next few turns.
e: I'm just playing Bo1 for now so is there anything mainboard worthy that can deal with them? I almost always end up getting milled to death rather than going to 0.
What kind of deck are you playing, exactly?
I've been thinking maybe I should just... make the deck bigger. Bump a bunch of stuff to 4 copies, add in more counterspells, etc.
And also get that UG druid guy that lets you dig up creatures.
Also also:
Doomskar is great if you have it turn two, with untapped lands. It's only 'astoundingly good' if you can cast it on turn 3, which is less than 50% of the time. Otherwise it's a turn 5 wrath, which is ass when 40% of decks can reliably lethal you on turn 4/flash creatures out/have indestructible.
If you are playing wrath’s, you should be running 3 or 4 doomskars. Doomkar is a turn 3 wrath. You should have one in hand, alongside 2 or 3 lands and your non creature plan or you should mulligan.
If you are complaining about turn 3 kills, your problem is not wrath’s being too weak
Doomskar is a good Wrath but Supreme Verdict is the best Standard-legal Wrath in recent history.
I feel like my point isn't getting across. Doomskar is fine. Wrath effects in (the current) standard are garbage. Doomskar is garbage because [~4mana to clear all/most creatures] is not enough in (the current) standard to dissuade or defeat aggro. Too much equipment, land creatures, flash, etc.
You have an interesting definition of "recent".
Man, Wrath of God still feels recent to me. Can't believe they haven't reprinted it in 12 years. I feel like I was making friends cry just yesterday as my foil M10 wrath killed all their stupid fucking goblins. Fuck siege-gang commander.
Come up with your own shit, people!
Hitting mono-white with Lurrus disenchantment in platinum.
Just taught someone that indestructible Hallowblades don't like being on -1 toughness.
I mind so much more when I lose to someone misplaying their (usually meta-)deck instead.
I have seen this and don't understand why it works. Kroxa didn't escape, do why isn't he sacrificed?