they should let AOC speak in their convention because it'll look terrible if they don't. just put her up alongside one of the more conservative congresspeople, in the way that you're putting Sanders next to Kasich. big tent
if you don't do that it just looks like you're cutting her out because you have a personal vendetta against her, which is of course true but you can't make a production out of it
also Hillary lol. there's no way that looks good for them but i guess she just has too much clout to leave out
I’m 100% on board with AOC being tapped for the convention somehow, but if they don’t it’s because of a vendetta? I don’t see it. She gets along well with party leadership despite their differences.
If they don’t choose her for some reason I would think it’s a dumb move but I don’t think petty grudges are the only possible explanation.
Even if it’s not a grudge, she, along with many others, are being sidelined for both Clintons, and both have enormous baggage that should be nowhere near any fucking candidate for any office
Of course the still extremely popular former President is speaking. I'm pretty sure he's still hitting like 70%+ in polling among Democrats?
I would be surprised and disgusted and also not surprised of this were still true
And Hillary is so popular it’s not an incumbent convention
Though I guess I’m buying into the convention as voter outreach instead of party wankery that the media gets big ratings for covering so I guess
According to a recent-ish YouGov poll I found, Bill Clinton is the 5th most popular democrat. And that's across everyone they polled, not just Democrats afaik. Right behind Biden and basically tied with Warren.
Like, given his performance at John Lewis' funeral I'm not sure I personally would want him speaking but I can't see how you could cut him given his position within the party.
Where was Obama on the stack ranking of popular Dems at the 2004 convention
The fact that the top of that list includes all these super fucking old and super polarizing and not-good-policy-having people is a giant klaxon that the Dems have no bench strength and it’s going to fuck them approximately negative 4 years from now
Just cause everyone only remembers Obama from that convention doesn't mean he was the main or only one speaking. Top speakers were exactly who you'd expect:
Clinton, Carter, Gore, Clinton (56, 81, 56, 57)
Kerry's family (Kerry was 60)
Obama (43)
Edwards and family (51)
Kerry and family
That's your headliners. Former presidents, Nominee and VP, other old big party names. That's always been your headliners. Obama got on their because after his huge victory in his senate race basically everyone was like "this guy gonna be the first black president". And he's an outlier because of that. Everyone else is basically the big old names you expect and all the smaller names and up-and-comers fill out the secondary speakers. That's the way these things generally work.
The Clintons were 56 and 57
Gore was 56
Carter was 81, only 4 years older than our nominee this year
Edwards was 51
Kerry was 60
Obama was 43
I’m not arguing from ignorance dude- I was an elected democrat myself in 2004!
I’m saying that the party is dying, and not in a slow way, in a super fast and almost already dead way and the fact that 3 of the 7 prime time speakers listed from 16 years/4 pres elections ago are holding spots this year is a symptom of a bad fucking problem
But there's nothing notable about this lineup. The expected speakers this year are basically the exact same kind of people who were the expected speakers at the 2004 convention. Which was the example you brought up. The age thing doesn't make a difference here because the reason they are speaking is cause they are former presidents and other big names within the party. That's who gets the primetime spots.
This is not a rule! They can change it!
Even if Biden wins there’s a really good chance that Obama is the only living former dem president in 2028 (other than the incumbent), maybe even 2024! They need to recognize that and use these opportunities to promote the next generation of leaders!
I can imagine you lecturing us about corporate succession planning in other threads but you’re digging in here because you reflexively think I’m coming at this from the left flank and this is one of those dem vs left arguments. I’m making a “the Dems would be better off in the not-actually-that-long-term if they bucked history considering the ages of the vanguard and promoted new leaders” argument.
No dude, I'm saying this because having the big names of the party is in no way notable nor is there really a coherent reason why it should be or why you would change that. These people are popular. The party and the voters in general like them. They are it's big names. The point of these conventions is not to throw up a bunch of randos nobody's heard of in prime-time. It's to feature the big names of the party that people are gonna tune in for and maybe bump a few big name up-and-comers to try and piggyback off people tuning in to see the people they actually know. The rest of the non-prime-time spots are where you put some of your other less notable members.
Like, the problem with your argument is not that it's "coming from the left" or some other nonsense. I think your Obama example is emblematic of the problem with the complaint here. Obama was a big up-and-coming name in the party. That's why he got the spot. He wasn't a nobody.
AOC is actually an incredibly good politician- I don’t know if she’s got a great process and/or staff, or if she’s that talented naturally, but for all the hate and exposure she’s had, I can’t recall instances where she’s had to backtrack or issue clarifying statements or what-have-you
AOC is actually an incredibly good politician- I don’t know if she’s got a great process and/or staff, or if she’s that talented naturally, but for all the hate and exposure she’s had, I can’t recall instances where she’s had to backtrack or issue clarifying statements or what-have-you
Youth may be bad at voting but they inevitably get better as they get older! Otherwise there would be no voters. Being a first-time voter means you need to figure out how to register and vote which is easy to procrastinate on. But it provides valuable knowledge of how to successfully vote next election.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
My government/econ teacher in high school would get students a voter registration form for their birthday if they were turning 18 during the course. No pressure about who to vote for or whatever, she just... got that first step rolling. It's a small piece of the puzzle but if it were more widely adopted in the country it might help.
one good place to start would be the kind of union organising that Jane McAlevey talks about in her book No Shortcuts
you need to form new political machines by building support for the left into people's lives and workplaces. it's something you do all the time, not just in an election year
however i think there's a problem where democrats just look at that kind of organising and go "no, it will never work, people are too dumb"
The conservative movement has gone to great lengths to build a complete ecosystem designed to reinforce it's ideals in every facet of people's lives. Television, schools, colleges, church, youth groups, approved hobbies- you can have a very full and active social circle in the bubble.
Whereas your parents can be bleeding hearts and aside from dinner table conversation you're more likely to passively interact with the rights ecosystem then anything else. You basically have to bring yourself to leftist/left leaning thought, it's not going to come to you.
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My government/econ teacher in high school would get students a voter registration form for their birthday if they were turning 18 during the course. No pressure about who to vote for or whatever, she just... got that first step rolling. It's a small piece of the puzzle but if it were more widely adopted in the country it might help.
May of my senior year one of my teachers made it their business to roll through lunch/study halls and giving forms to seniors and asking them to fill it out. Only 60 of us per grade so it wasn't a huge undertaking for what was clearly a passion project.
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one big issue here is the kind of ideological anti-populism that's become very common among liberals
there's been a serious attempt to represent Trump as a result of the stupidity of the electorate rather than the failings of the establishment. Thomas Frank's new book The People, No is good on this
one big issue here is the kind of ideological anti-populism that's become very common among liberals
there's been a serious attempt to represent Trump as a result of the stupidity of the electorate rather than the failings of the establishment. Thomas Frank's new book The People, No is good on this
Is this a class based argument essentially? That liberals internalized a bunch of stuff pushed by capital and while there is a huge disconnect between them and conservatives on social issues you start seeing a blurring of lines once it's time for unionizing/recognizing unions/solidarity movements?
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one big issue here is the kind of ideological anti-populism that's become very common among liberals
there's been a serious attempt to represent Trump as a result of the stupidity of the electorate rather than the failings of the establishment. Thomas Frank's new book The People, No is good on this
The man ran on open white supremacy in 2016. And 2018. He's doing it again right now. (see - his recent talk about how the Democrats were going to destroy the suburbs) It's absolutely populism. Good old fashioned white supremacist populism. It's his only play and he's pushing the button as hard as he can.
His biggest problem is that suburban voters don't really like this button and are liking it less and less as time goes on.
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MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Young voters aren't worth trying to win over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because-
Someone has to break the cycle y'all.
They don’t vote even when people try to win them over. Its why the “youth candidate” so often loses in the primary
I mean you can dust your hands off and go "see they didn't vote" or you can put some leg work into figuring out why they didn't and work with them.
Maybe directly get them involved in the process, be it the operation of elections or operation of the party (positions that don't require election, etc).
They don't vote because if college-age kids are going to devote a couple of hours to doing something other than classwork or work-work it sure as shit isn't "standing in line with cops nearby where you can't even drink"
Young voters aren't worth trying to win over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because-
Someone has to break the cycle y'all.
They don’t vote even when people try to win them over. Its why the “youth candidate” so often loses in the primary
I mean you can dust your hands off and go "see they didn't vote" or you can put some leg work into figuring out why they didn't and work with them.
Maybe directly get them involved in the process, be it the operation of elections or operation of the party (positions that don't require election, etc).
People have been trying to crack this nut for at least 60 years, and it's common across democracies with voluntary voting.
Their lack of engagement is at least in part, part of the human condition.
If it hasn't been working for 60 years then the methods used need to be examined. Because where I sit, and where I sat decades ago, I haven't exactly seen much change in that regard on part of the leadership and older people in general.
Again, you can either give up now or keep trying.
I mean, if Bernie had been successful at what he was trying to do by activiating the youth vote, he would have smashed Biden.
But he wasn't.
I feel he did but the overall party doesn't like the direction he was taking it with the youth vote> As it's easy to get dismayed when the people in power don't want M4A or a number of other things as the gravy train for them and the handful of others will run dry
Other people have the right ideal of taking back your [neighborhood/lawn/street and so on} As that is the change most people will notice.
It's worth noting while we're talking about "youth vote" that different polls and studies have used very different break points for when you stop being part of the "youth vote", with many going up to 35.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
It's worth noting while we're talking about "youth vote" that different polls and studies have used very different break points for when you stop being part of the "youth vote", with many going up to 35.
Only a few more months until I am considered a real voter worth trying to win over!
It's worth noting while we're talking about "youth vote" that different polls and studies have used very different break points for when you stop being part of the "youth vote", with many going up to 35.
Only a few more months until I am considered a real voter worth trying to win over!
I thought the youth vote was the pre 18 to 25 as people do get dismayed pre 18 about the voting process as well as other factors
as getting people to vote is a heroic effort for various reasons as what works in one area is totally alien for another
one big issue here is the kind of ideological anti-populism that's become very common among liberals
there's been a serious attempt to represent Trump as a result of the stupidity of the electorate rather than the failings of the establishment. Thomas Frank's new book The People, No is good on this
Is this a class based argument essentially? That liberals internalized a bunch of stuff pushed by capital and while there is a huge disconnect between them and conservatives on social issues you start seeing a blurring of lines once it's time for unionizing/recognizing unions/solidarity movements?
basically yes, although of course the whole thing has a dense and complex history
DNC 2016 speakers who are confirmed (and were obvious picks)
Michelle Obama 15 min (56)
Elizabeth Warren 20 min (71)
Bernie Sanders 30 min (78)
Bill Clinton 45 min (73, so much other bullshit)
Barack Obama 1 hour (59)
Joe Biden 20 minutes (77, ugh)
HRC (nominee) 1 hour (72, hated enough for a bunch of people to take a flyer in Trump)
There is now 8 hours of speaking time. Switch Biden and HRC, cut B Clinton back because he's not pulling double duty as spouse and former President and that's something like 4 hours. You have no Governors (Inslee, Whitmer), Kasich is there are the token guy from the other party to show the breadth of the coalition against Trump, and Pelosi and Schumer don't have slots. You have no Latinx, Native or Asian speakers. You have no union representation and no immigrants. The pandemic is going to result in a lot of hard cuts. A one term representative like AOC is not entitled to a primetime speaking slot, especially over more popular officials who represent larger groups of constituents.
I’m a dem trying to help my party
This lineup fucking sucks with an average age of 69 (not nice), and 5 of the 7 have spent 8 years in the WH or Naval Observatory
The old Dems need to let the fuck go. The Clinton and Obama presidencies were not that good and the world feels like it’s going to end any moment now and we need new leaders to make us feel like there’s a chance to get better
Dude, Obama is incredibly popular. Especially within the party. And "weren't the Obama years great" resonates pretty well these days afaik. Cutting ties with Obama makes even less sense then with Clinton.
The Obamas, at 59 and 56, are the youngest people on that list.
I'd like to see one that has them closer to the median.
(but for that to happen, the boomers need to fucking let go. and... they won't.)
DNC 2016 speakers who are confirmed (and were obvious picks)
Michelle Obama 15 min (56)
Elizabeth Warren 20 min (71)
Bernie Sanders 30 min (78)
Bill Clinton 45 min (73, so much other bullshit)
Barack Obama 1 hour (59)
Joe Biden 20 minutes (77, ugh)
HRC (nominee) 1 hour (72, hated enough for a bunch of people to take a flyer in Trump)
There is now 8 hours of speaking time. Switch Biden and HRC, cut B Clinton back because he's not pulling double duty as spouse and former President and that's something like 4 hours. You have no Governors (Inslee, Whitmer), Kasich is there are the token guy from the other party to show the breadth of the coalition against Trump, and Pelosi and Schumer don't have slots. You have no Latinx, Native or Asian speakers. You have no union representation and no immigrants. The pandemic is going to result in a lot of hard cuts. A one term representative like AOC is not entitled to a primetime speaking slot, especially over more popular officials who represent larger groups of constituents.
I’m a dem trying to help my party
This lineup fucking sucks with an average age of 69 (not nice), and 5 of the 7 have spent 8 years in the WH or Naval Observatory
The old Dems need to let the fuck go. The Clinton and Obama presidencies were not that good and the world feels like it’s going to end any moment now and we need new leaders to make us feel like there’s a chance to get better
Dude, Obama is incredibly popular. Especially within the party. And "weren't the Obama years great" resonates pretty well these days afaik. Cutting ties with Obama makes even less sense then with Clinton.
I mean, yeah turnout sucks with the youth, but you can't argue that there aren't and haven't been active efforts to discourage or prevent them from voting.
Here in Michigan, going to an in-state college ten hours from your registered residence was insufficient to get an absentee ballot. Had to go home if you wanted to vote. People (iirc) over 60 could just ask with no reason and get an absentee ballot.
Youth work jobs that are harder to get time off / come in late / leave early. Or get child care. Or make it to their precinct.
And shit, it was only 50 years ago people 18-21 even got the right to vote with the 26th Amendment.
Maybe we should fix the suppression problem and see where youth end up. It may still be lower, but I'm pretty sure every demographic would have a drop in turnout if they faced the same hurdles.
In what way does Germany disenfranchise the youth vote? Britain? France? Canada? Japan? Spain? Because I have a feeling they haven't all done the exact same approach to youth turnout, and yet the result remains.
Here's Canada studying their youth disenfranchisement problem!
Young electors tend to have less knowledge of the electoral process and are more likely to say that it is difficult to find information about it. However, they are more comfortable with online resources than older electors.
Young people move often, whether to study or to work. This can make it hard to provide a proof of address, to register or to update their registration. It also makes them less likely to receive a voter information card (VIC).
Proving their identity or address was a significant barrier to voting for youth.
Young electors' attitudes towards voting differ from those of their elders. This explains part of the gap in turnout between younger and older electors.
Young electors are less likely to be involved in electoral politics through mobilization by political parties and candidates, or through family socialization.
one big issue here is the kind of ideological anti-populism that's become very common among liberals
there's been a serious attempt to represent Trump as a result of the stupidity of the electorate rather than the failings of the establishment. Thomas Frank's new book The People, No is good on this
The man ran on open white supremacy in 2016. And 2018. He's doing it again right now. (see - his recent talk about how the Democrats were going to destroy the suburbs) It's absolutely populism. Good old fashioned white supremacist populism. It's his only play and he's pushing the button as hard as he can.
His biggest problem is that suburban voters don't really like this button and are liking it less and less as time goes on.
I mean, suburban voters *do* like the button. It’s why Biden was VP in 2008, Trump succeeded in 2016 and why Biden is the candidate in 2020.
They just want someone who presses it, rather than holds it down.
one good place to start would be the kind of union organising that Jane McAlevey talks about in her book No Shortcuts
you need to form new political machines by building support for the left into people's lives and workplaces. it's something you do all the time, not just in an election year
however i think there's a problem where democrats just look at that kind of organising and go "no, it will never work, people are too dumb"
Jane McAlevey is am incredible union organizer and everyone that cares about politics should listen to her interview with Ezra Klein earlier this year.
The moving/changing address a lot is absolutely a big deal. Hell I'm nearing 35 and I've moved three times in four years. (Unusually tumultuous period of my life in that regard, but still.) And millennials in particular have often had a very slow start, what with getting hit twice now in early adulthood with the two worst recessions since WW2.
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
one big issue here is the kind of ideological anti-populism that's become very common among liberals
there's been a serious attempt to represent Trump as a result of the stupidity of the electorate rather than the failings of the establishment. Thomas Frank's new book The People, No is good on this
The man ran on open white supremacy in 2016. And 2018. He's doing it again right now. (see - his recent talk about how the Democrats were going to destroy the suburbs) It's absolutely populism. Good old fashioned white supremacist populism. It's his only play and he's pushing the button as hard as he can.
His biggest problem is that suburban voters don't really like this button and are liking it less and less as time goes on.
I mean, suburban voters *do* like the button. It’s why Biden was VP in 2008, Trump succeeded in 2016 and why Biden is the candidate in 2020.
They just want someone who presses it, rather than holds it down.
No, this is not at all true from any of the data we have. The entire realignment going on right now, that led to the Democratic wave in 2018, is fuelled by gains in the suburbs. Because those voters don't care about immigration. They care about shit like healthcare and education. They don't like Trump but it's not just about Trump. We just saw yet another example of this with the medicaid expansion in Missouri.
This shift is really fundamental to understanding what is going on in american politics right now imo.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Young voters aren't worth trying to win over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because-
Someone has to break the cycle y'all.
They don’t vote even when people try to win them over. Its why the “youth candidate” so often loses in the primary
I mean you can dust your hands off and go "see they didn't vote" or you can put some leg work into figuring out why they didn't and work with them.
Maybe directly get them involved in the process, be it the operation of elections or operation of the party (positions that don't require election, etc).
People have been trying to crack this nut for at least 60 years, and it's common across democracies with voluntary voting.
Their lack of engagement is at least in part, part of the human condition.
If it hasn't been working for 60 years then the methods used need to be examined. Because where I sit, and where I sat decades ago, I haven't exactly seen much change in that regard on part of the leadership and older people in general.
Again, you can either give up now or keep trying.
I mean, if Bernie had been successful at what he was trying to do by activiating the youth vote, he would have smashed Biden.
But he wasn't.
I feel he did but the overall party doesn't like the direction he was taking it with the youth vote> As it's easy to get dismayed when the people in power don't want M4A or a number of other things as the gravy train for them and the handful of others will run dry
Other people have the right ideal of taking back your [neighborhood/lawn/street and so on} As that is the change most people will notice.
No, he talked to them, they liked his policies, but they didn't vote in the numbers he needed.
Young voters aren't worth trying to win over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because they don't reliably vote because nobody makes the effort to win them over to vote because-
Someone has to break the cycle y'all.
They don’t vote even when people try to win them over. Its why the “youth candidate” so often loses in the primary
I mean you can dust your hands off and go "see they didn't vote" or you can put some leg work into figuring out why they didn't and work with them.
Maybe directly get them involved in the process, be it the operation of elections or operation of the party (positions that don't require election, etc).
People have been trying to crack this nut for at least 60 years, and it's common across democracies with voluntary voting.
Their lack of engagement is at least in part, part of the human condition.
If it hasn't been working for 60 years then the methods used need to be examined. Because where I sit, and where I sat decades ago, I haven't exactly seen much change in that regard on part of the leadership and older people in general.
Again, you can either give up now or keep trying.
I mean, if Bernie had been successful at what he was trying to do by activiating the youth vote, he would have smashed Biden.
But he wasn't.
I feel he did but the overall party doesn't like the direction he was taking it with the youth vote> As it's easy to get dismayed when the people in power don't want M4A or a number of other things as the gravy train for them and the handful of others will run dry
Other people have the right ideal of taking back your [neighborhood/lawn/street and so on} As that is the change most people will notice.
No, he talked to them, they liked his policies, but they didn't vote in the numbers he needed.
there was no conspiracy against Bernie. He was incredibly well-known, discussed a ton in the media and all over social media, etc. He didn't get the votes.
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My government/econ teacher in high school would get students a voter registration form for their birthday if they were turning 18 during the course. No pressure about who to vote for or whatever, she just... got that first step rolling. It's a small piece of the puzzle but if it were more widely adopted in the country it might help.
Voter registration is automatic and universal in many countries, doesn't make youth turnout high
My government/econ teacher in high school would get students a voter registration form for their birthday if they were turning 18 during the course. No pressure about who to vote for or whatever, she just... got that first step rolling. It's a small piece of the puzzle but if it were more widely adopted in the country it might help.
Voter registration is automatic and universal in many countries, doesn't make youth turnout high
Literally said it's a small piece of the puzzle. I know people want to be fatalist when it comes to "how can we get people to vote" but I'd rather see ideas about how to turn things around rather than talk about how they currently are or have been.
My government/econ teacher in high school would get students a voter registration form for their birthday if they were turning 18 during the course. No pressure about who to vote for or whatever, she just... got that first step rolling. It's a small piece of the puzzle but if it were more widely adopted in the country it might help.
Voter registration is automatic and universal in many countries, doesn't make youth turnout high
Literally said it's a small piece of the puzzle. I know people want to be fatalist when it comes to "how can we get people to vote" but I'd rather see ideas about how to turn things around rather than talk about how they currently are or have been.
Your premise is the system is what creates low youth voter turnout, but every system has lower voter turnout among the young than the old. Australia has compulsory voting where 95+% of the eligible population is registered (and they aggressively pursue it) and 95%+ of that group votes, and among 18-25 year olds both numbers are <80%. It is much higher than the US, but lower than other voters within the same system.
My government/econ teacher in high school would get students a voter registration form for their birthday if they were turning 18 during the course. No pressure about who to vote for or whatever, she just... got that first step rolling. It's a small piece of the puzzle but if it were more widely adopted in the country it might help.
Voter registration is automatic and universal in many countries, doesn't make youth turnout high
Literally said it's a small piece of the puzzle. I know people want to be fatalist when it comes to "how can we get people to vote" but I'd rather see ideas about how to turn things around rather than talk about how they currently are or have been.
If you come up with any that work it would be excellent. Right now people are discussing the current election with the information available. That information makes clear young people don’t vote. It’s not fatalist to acknowledge the reality of the situation.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
It's remarkable to me that you guys argued to me about motivating people to vote for Biden, and then when I bring up motivating a demographic to vote suddenly it's off limits or impossible.
A source familiar with convention planning confirmed to POLITICO that the congresswoman [AOC] “will have some role.”
The names of other participants continued to leak out. Danica Roem, a member of the Virginia House of Delegates who is a transgender woman, will also have a role at the convention, according to multiple sources. Other Democrats briefed on convention planning added the names of three women considered to be potential Biden running mates. Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, New Mexico Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham, and Illinois Sen. Tammy Duckworth will all speak at the convention.
Other prominent Democrats, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, will have roles. But given the time constraints — two hours of programming each night from August 17-20 — the Biden campaign is making some ruthless cuts. Some high-profile Democrats do not yet have confirmed roles.
At recent conventions, when there was more than six hours of daily programming, lower-level elected officials filled the afternoon schedule. But this year, securing a speaking spot is a unique status symbol, and convention planners say they have had to turn down some big names.
“We want to have as few elected officials as possible,” said one Biden adviser. “Every one of these politicians — they give them three minutes but then they take 15. We are trying to avoid that. There will be a lot of video and a lot of regular people.”
It's remarkable to me that you guys argued to me about motivating people to vote for Biden, and then when I bring up motivating a demographic to vote suddenly it's off limits or impossible.
It's remarkable to me that you guys argued to me about motivating people to vote for Biden, and then when I bring up motivating a demographic to vote suddenly it's off limits or impossible.
Literally no one here has said not to motivate young people to vote. What has been said is people acknowledged we don’t know any effective way to motivate them. Getting angry at people here doesn’t change that reality.
When the winter holidays would roll around in the late 1910s, the students of Milwaukee teacher Kenneth Shedd treated their peers to a very different kind of Christmas pageant. Instead of putting on a nativity play or singing “Silent Night,” the children mounted a performance of The Strike of Santa Claus, in which Santa announces that Christmas is cancelled because he has decided to strike in solidarity with their parents, who are being worked so hard by the ruling class that they did not have adequate time to prepare for the holidays. In a rousing end to the performance, the children of the world persuade Santa to go back to delivering presents by all vowing to vote socialist.
The students in question were able to perform The Strike of Santa Claus without so much as raising an eyebrow (never mind being banished to the principal’s office) because they were not at a run-of-the-mill public school, or even a private one—they were attending one of the many Socialist Sunday Schools active in America at that time. First rising to prominence in Britain and the United States in the late 19th century, the movement was eventually championed in countries around the world by radicals who felt that education was a key part of building a more equitable future, and believed that the values imparted to children in the course of conventional schooling stood in direct opposition to that goal. [...]
In 2016, DSA member Hae-Lin Choi, wanting to recreate the positive atmosphere of her own (Christian) Sunday school upbringing while teaching leftist values, met with a group of like-minded families and decided to create a modern-day Socialist Sunday School in New York. The twice-monthly classes she and the community put together covered topics such as corporate greed, the need to orga- nize, and environmentalism. The students sang “Solidarity Forev- er” together; they colored and drew. There were field trips to parks and to protests. In both content and in spirit, Choi’s program closely mirrored the efforts that had preceded it a century before.
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No dude, I'm saying this because having the big names of the party is in no way notable nor is there really a coherent reason why it should be or why you would change that. These people are popular. The party and the voters in general like them. They are it's big names. The point of these conventions is not to throw up a bunch of randos nobody's heard of in prime-time. It's to feature the big names of the party that people are gonna tune in for and maybe bump a few big name up-and-comers to try and piggyback off people tuning in to see the people they actually know. The rest of the non-prime-time spots are where you put some of your other less notable members.
Like, the problem with your argument is not that it's "coming from the left" or some other nonsense. I think your Obama example is emblematic of the problem with the complaint here. Obama was a big up-and-coming name in the party. That's why he got the spot. He wasn't a nobody.
She does have a very good staff, partly because She actually pays them a decent wage.
The conservative movement has gone to great lengths to build a complete ecosystem designed to reinforce it's ideals in every facet of people's lives. Television, schools, colleges, church, youth groups, approved hobbies- you can have a very full and active social circle in the bubble.
Whereas your parents can be bleeding hearts and aside from dinner table conversation you're more likely to passively interact with the rights ecosystem then anything else. You basically have to bring yourself to leftist/left leaning thought, it's not going to come to you.
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May of my senior year one of my teachers made it their business to roll through lunch/study halls and giving forms to seniors and asking them to fill it out. Only 60 of us per grade so it wasn't a huge undertaking for what was clearly a passion project.
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there's been a serious attempt to represent Trump as a result of the stupidity of the electorate rather than the failings of the establishment. Thomas Frank's new book The People, No is good on this
Is this a class based argument essentially? That liberals internalized a bunch of stuff pushed by capital and while there is a huge disconnect between them and conservatives on social issues you start seeing a blurring of lines once it's time for unionizing/recognizing unions/solidarity movements?
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The man ran on open white supremacy in 2016. And 2018. He's doing it again right now. (see - his recent talk about how the Democrats were going to destroy the suburbs) It's absolutely populism. Good old fashioned white supremacist populism. It's his only play and he's pushing the button as hard as he can.
His biggest problem is that suburban voters don't really like this button and are liking it less and less as time goes on.
They don't vote because if college-age kids are going to devote a couple of hours to doing something other than classwork or work-work it sure as shit isn't "standing in line with cops nearby where you can't even drink"
I feel he did but the overall party doesn't like the direction he was taking it with the youth vote> As it's easy to get dismayed when the people in power don't want M4A or a number of other things as the gravy train for them and the handful of others will run dry
Other people have the right ideal of taking back your [neighborhood/lawn/street and so on} As that is the change most people will notice.
I thought the youth vote was the pre 18 to 25 as people do get dismayed pre 18 about the voting process as well as other factors
as getting people to vote is a heroic effort for various reasons as what works in one area is totally alien for another
basically yes, although of course the whole thing has a dense and complex history
Libertarian candidate for President
Water wet, sky blue, Libertaryans and Greens poll around 1-2% nationally
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The Obamas, at 59 and 56, are the youngest people on that list.
I'd like to see one that has them closer to the median.
(but for that to happen, the boomers need to fucking let go. and... they won't.)
In what way does Germany disenfranchise the youth vote? Britain? France? Canada? Japan? Spain? Because I have a feeling they haven't all done the exact same approach to youth turnout, and yet the result remains.
Here's Canada studying their youth disenfranchisement problem!
I mean, suburban voters *do* like the button. It’s why Biden was VP in 2008, Trump succeeded in 2016 and why Biden is the candidate in 2020.
They just want someone who presses it, rather than holds it down.
Jane McAlevey is am incredible union organizer and everyone that cares about politics should listen to her interview with Ezra Klein earlier this year.
No, this is not at all true from any of the data we have. The entire realignment going on right now, that led to the Democratic wave in 2018, is fuelled by gains in the suburbs. Because those voters don't care about immigration. They care about shit like healthcare and education. They don't like Trump but it's not just about Trump. We just saw yet another example of this with the medicaid expansion in Missouri.
This shift is really fundamental to understanding what is going on in american politics right now imo.
No, he talked to them, they liked his policies, but they didn't vote in the numbers he needed.
there was no conspiracy against Bernie. He was incredibly well-known, discussed a ton in the media and all over social media, etc. He didn't get the votes.
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Voter registration is automatic and universal in many countries, doesn't make youth turnout high
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If the Post Office doesn't deliver the votes, it may not matter how many there are or for who.
Your premise is the system is what creates low youth voter turnout, but every system has lower voter turnout among the young than the old. Australia has compulsory voting where 95+% of the eligible population is registered (and they aggressively pursue it) and 95%+ of that group votes, and among 18-25 year olds both numbers are <80%. It is much higher than the US, but lower than other voters within the same system.
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If you come up with any that work it would be excellent. Right now people are discussing the current election with the information available. That information makes clear young people don’t vote. It’s not fatalist to acknowledge the reality of the situation.
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Because they are very different things.
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Literally no one here has said not to motivate young people to vote. What has been said is people acknowledged we don’t know any effective way to motivate them. Getting angry at people here doesn’t change that reality.