So, has anything termed 'abandonware' been legal anywhere, ever?
There are some instances where the creators have declared it freely distributable after fans asked them to, but there aren't a whole lot of them. Legal Abandonware
Hmm, they use abandonware for things I would have thought would be called freeware. Oh well, whatever.
I still like how they think since that MS stopped working on it, it's fair game.
Are they even modifying the original program, or just writing userland programs?
Not sure if they're changing anything or not, but their logic is pretty broken. The code isn't abandoned, as somebody pointed out in that thread, a lot of the stuff that got gutted from Longhorn to Vista is still in the pipes for the next version of windows. Even if it was abandoned, Microsoft still owns it, and they've never been ok with beta versions being distributed. There's a reason why you couldn't just go on Microsoft.com and pick up Longhorn betas, and I vaguely remember license agreements when I got my beta disks that said I can't distribute it to unauthorized users ever, before or after the final version launches. Can't remember for sure, I skim the first two paragraphs of those things, get bored, pagedown to the bottom and click next.
At least they seem to be honest about one bit:
Calm down Aeden, we're allowing it as long ms doesnt says anything against it..
Then there's this bit:
I got the same answer from microsoft. They said its ok to use it. Although they mentioned that after 1 july 2007 its gonna expire...which is not the case here.
This sounds a bit misleading - it's possible he represented himself as having a legitimate version, or that he's actually a legitimate user, but I'm sure it's not legal to distribute it. And from the sounds of it, they cracked the built-in timeout so it'll work forever...
The old "Microsoft hasn't said anything to us yet" argument about warez is bunk. Microsoft runs all over the internet killing what torrents they can. Just because nobody's managed to squash piracy entirely doesn't mean it's legal to pirate until you're told to stop.
Still, go ahead and use it if you want. I warn you: Vista was an improvement over the versions of Longhorn I used, and they were early betas, not alphas.
Will Vista ever receive WinFS? Did Microsoft ever say what is going to happen to WinFS?
I heard that it's in the pipeline for the second service pack, around the time that it hits the server product in the boxed form. But as to how they're going to convert the file system, etc... I can't imagine that it's going to be as easy as FAT32 to NTFS, at least from the programmer point of view.
WinFS has been in development longer than most of you have been alive. It's the Duke Nukem of Windows components.
I can't believe the explanations that the "Longhorn Reloaded" guys are using to justify distributing this. This software is copyright infringement pure and simple.
You can't just start distributing a beta because it's reached a certain age. In fact, I'd think that there would be some licensing conditions that explicitly prohibit you from using it after a certain date.
Microsoft is a huge company, raking in about $35 BILLION a year. That is over
$1000 every SECOND. It has about $60 billion in assets. Windows runs on more
than 90% of the world's desktop computers. So how can I say it will fail?
Beneath the surface there are a number of currents which, all together, are
slowly but surely driving the SS Microsoft to the rocks. Complexity theory tells
us that a small change on inputs can have a large effect on outputs. The
problems below are enormous, and any ONE of them can sink the SS Microsoft.
Together they spell disaster.
1.Staff turnover / morale. There are numerous blogs on the web indicating that
MS employees are very unhappy - see http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2006/03/vista-2007-fire-leadership-now.html for
example. Unhappy staff means low productivity and poor quality products. If the
company can no longer attract the bright sparks they need, then clearly they
have a problem. Microsoft has grown into a huge, bloated bureaucracy. There is
one manager for every three staff members -- and these managers have people
managing them, all the way up the food chain. MS is drowning in its own
paperwork.
2.Profitability. 4 out of 7 divisions are running at a loss. One division
showing a very small profit. Two divisions carry the company: Windows and
Office. It has been estimated that MS looses $200 on every XBox 360 it sells;
and the target for this year is 5,000,000 sales. In other words, MS plans to
loose a billion dollars on one product. Like Cheney said (I think it was him):
"A billion here and a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking about
real money."
3.The “Good enough†syndrome. Maybe it's true that Windows runs on more than 90%
of the world's desktop computers, although I have yet to see any scientific
proof of this. But WHICH Windows? 95? 98? ME? NT4? Win2000? XP? Or a
combination? Microsoft's biggest competition is Microsoft, meaning that many
people stick with their current setup simply because it's "good
enough". Indications are that a lot of companies will not jump on the Vista
bandwagon because XP/2000 is "good enough". The same attitude applies
to users of Office, and Office 2007 will be facing serious resistance.
4.API compatibility. Part of Windows' problem is the hacks placed in the OS for
backwards compatibility. But it would appear that Vista will offer far LESS
backward compatibility than XP -- see http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/APIWar.html If companies can not run the
applications they currently run, why on earth would they switch from XP to
Vista?
5.Malware. 'Nuff said, really. Malicious software is strangling PC's to death,
and Microsoft's response is underwhelming, to say the least. I find it very
interesting that in my small town I personally have installed Linux on more than
a dozen home PC's, because the owners got fed up with all the malware on their
Windows boxes. And I don't run a PC business; these were simply friends and
neighbors. Feedback from these people indicate a huge sense of relief.
6.Risk exposure for litigation is more than 25% of gross income! During 2004, MS
indicated $9 billion in their financial statements either having paid out or
kept in reserve to cover legal costs. That is on revenue of $35 billion.
Microsoft is embroiled in numerous litigation cases: see http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653 for details.
7.Microsoft is perceived to be an unethical company. Many companies are very
bitter because they feel they are being shafted by MS's licensing schemes.
"Software Assurance" turned out to be a scam. Threats of software
audits and litigation leave a bad taste in the mouth. Simply put, companies feel
exploited and are very, very angry with MS.
8.Linux threatens Windows. Even though MS fiercely denies this, any sane person
has to agree that Linux is making huge inroads and at a rapid pace. Hindsight
will show that the tipping point was reached in 2005, and the adoption of Linux
in 2006 is increasing. Ubuntu Linux now has more than 2 million users, and
Ubuntu is one of more than 200 Linux distributions. That means that Microsoft
has lost the potential sale of 2 million copies of MS Office. "A billion
here....."
9.OpenOffice threatens MS Office. Despite numerous arguments that OpenOffice
lacks this or that feature, the "good enough" syndrome will ensure
that OpenOffice will eventually overtake MS Office. If, as has been suggested,
Office 2007 is going to require massive retraining, companies are going to look
at OpenOffice much more closely. The funny part is that OpenOffice is being used
by many people to fix MS Word documents that MS Word cannot read!
10.MySQL / PostgrSQL / Firebird threatens MS SQL Server. SQL Server is the one
division that showed a modest profit in 2004, but many database professionals
are switching Open Source alternatives. Even though sales for SQL Server is
growing, it is growing at a slower rate than the overall market.
11.The Open Document Format (ODF) is now an ISO standard, and governments are
starting to look at ODF as an alternative to MS Office formats. The reason is
simple: using ODF prevents the possibility of documents not being able to be
accessed in the future. MS Office formats means a lock-in to MS; clearly in
direct conflict with governments mandate to provide information to citizens in a
free and open manner. Despite Microsoft's furious FUD campaign it is very clear
that they are simply trying to protect their one fat cash-cow: Office.
12.Lack of innovation. Despite the noise from Microsoft's huge PR machine, the
fact is that there is very little truly innovative MS products. MS prefers to
buy products, rather than develop in-house. MS is not a software company -- it
is a marketing company. Bill Gates has said so quite clearly. And what MS cannot
buy, they kill. "Embrace, extend, extinguish" is the strategy it has
followed in the past to fight technologies it could not control. The real threat
of Open Source Software to MS is not only that OSS is threatening it in the
marketplace, but that OSS is showing the world how to write innovative and
exciting software. The emperor has no clothes, and OSS is showing this to the
world. It is noticeable how MS's FUD against Linux changed from "Software
written by amateurs" to "Total Cost of Ownership" -- because they
realized that these "amateurs" were showing them off.
13.Monopolistic practices. MS has been found guilty of illegally using their
monopoly position to unfairly dominate other industries -- and they STILL do it.
The European Union is currently reviewing the MS case, and by all accounts MS is
going to loose that one. MS's attitude is that fines are simply a cost of doing
business; in other words, breaking the law is OK. To put it bluntly: despite
numerous cases where MS has been found guilty, they simply ignore the cost and
carry on as before. This sort of arrogance is the symptom of a very dangerous
disease.
14.PC centric thinking. MS simply does not have an understanding of thin client,
Web based computing. For them, one PC = 1 copy of Windows + 1 copy of Office + 1
user. It is their business model, and they cannot get away from it. Their stabs
at the Internet have all been failures, and the "new" Live.com venture
is simply an attempt to monetize the idea of web portals. The so-called
groupware attempt, Sharepoint, is a disaster and laughably so.
15.T.C.O. Only MS can claim that $400 is less than $0 (MS Office vs.
OpenOffice). Only MS can claim that a SysAdmin managing 200 Linux workstations
is more expensive than a SysAdmin managing 50 Windows workstations. MS
Corporation needs 1 SysAdmin for every 15 workstations!
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
So, has anything termed 'abandonware' been legal anywhere, ever?
There are some instances where the creators have declared it freely distributable after fans asked them to, but there aren't a whole lot of them. Legal Abandonware
Hmm, they use abandonware for things I would have thought would be called freeware. Oh well, whatever.
As far as I understand it, Abandonware isn't even a legal term. At best it means that the publisher has officially granted an open license on the software (which means that they still ultimately hold the copyright to the software but have granted permission for anybody to use, copy and maybe even distribute and alter it - see Grand Theft Auto as an example of free use), in other words freeware, and at worst it means that whoever owns the copyright is simply unlikely to pursue anybody trying to do the above either because they no longer exist in any functional capacity or because they have bigger things to deal with. The later case is a risky game, because at any moment the copyright owner could turn round and bite you.
Legally, it would only officially become abandonware (eg public domain) after 75 years of the last official publish, which is why companies like Nintendo periodically re-release old games, because it effectively resets the timer on the public domain rights. Due to the videogame industry being in it's infancy, you're only likely to start seeing the first public domain games surfacing in about another 40 years.
Oh, and as for Longhorn. Legally, the code is all still the property of Microsoft unless they release an official copyright license stating otherwise. You don't loose the rights to copyright ownership simply through neglect or because you've moved on to making something different, you have to formally give them away.
Szechuanosaurus on
0
Options
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
Oh, and as for Longhorn. Legally, the code is all still the property of Microsoft unless they release an official copyright license stating otherwise. You don't loose the rights to copyright ownership simply through neglect or because you've moved on to making something different, you have to formally give them away.
I was under the impression that if you do not protect your copyrighted material you lose the copyright. Or am I confusing that with patents and/or trademarks?
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Oh, and as for Longhorn. Legally, the code is all still the property of Microsoft unless they release an official copyright license stating otherwise. You don't loose the rights to copyright ownership simply through neglect or because you've moved on to making something different, you have to formally give them away.
I was under the impression that if you do not protect your copyrighted material you lose the copyright. Or am I confusing that with patents and/or trademarks?
Oh, and as for Longhorn. Legally, the code is all still the property of Microsoft unless they release an official copyright license stating otherwise. You don't loose the rights to copyright ownership simply through neglect or because you've moved on to making something different, you have to formally give them away.
I was under the impression that if you do not protect your copyrighted material you lose the copyright. Or am I confusing that with patents and/or trademarks?
Yes, you are confusing that with patents. Although (I think) even in the case of patents, if you can sufficiently prove that you came up with the idea first, you can void a subsequent patent (but patents aren't really my area). Trademarks also don't require protection, it just makes things easier and there is an official registry. Copyright is an automatic right granted as soon as any work is 'fixed' (which just means created or recorded in some physical state).
No it's not, trademarks don't automatically require registration to be protected. Simply using it is normally sufficient to protect it by law in most jurisdictions.
I was under the impression that if you do not protect your copyrighted material you lose the copyright.
That's only true of trademarks.
No it's not, trademarks don't automatically require registration to be protected. Simply using it is normally sufficient to protect it by law in most jurisdictions.
Irrelevant. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that once you have a trademark, you must pursue legal action against anyone you discover infringing it or you risk the trademark becoming generic.
The same is not true of copyrights and/or patents. Both are exclusive grants that do not expire simply because you let some infringers get away with it.
In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to removal from the register after a certain period of time.
Yes, you are confusing that with patents. Although (I think) even in the case of patents, if you can sufficiently prove that you came up with the idea first, you can void a subsequent patent (but patents aren't really my area).
Prior art is a defense against infringement. It has nothing to do with what the guy you're responding to asked about, which is had to do with whether or not it was copyright, patent, or trademarks that you as the holder can lose if you don't sue any infringers you discover (again, the correct answer is Trademark).
Trademarks also don't require protection, it just makes things easier and there is an official registry.
False.
Senjutsu on
0
Options
redhaloAlso a Professional AlcoholicRegistered Userregular
Trademarks also don't require protection, it just makes things easier and there is an official registry.
False.
Ok, fair enough. I was meaning protection in terms of it needing to be registered to be protected, rather than defending it's use after the fact. You don't have to protect your trademark in advance (ie, register it), you just have to protect if anybody tries to use it. Semantics, I guess, but that was the angle I was coming from. You don't have to register a trademark in order for it to be considered your property, you just need to use it. I hadn't realised that your ownership of a trademark could evaporate if you fail to religiously prosecute anybody who infringes it though, that's kind of odd. Especially as the original designer could still prosecute anybody who uses your trademark because they own copyright over it, which doesn't lapse if you fail to defend it AFAIK.
Szechuanosaurus on
0
Options
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
Legally, it would only officially become abandonware (eg public domain) after 75 years of the last official publish, which is why companies like Nintendo periodically re-release old games, because it effectively resets the timer on the public domain rights.
No, no it doesn't. First of all, the date is 90 years, and that's after the initial copyright. After that time, the work becomes public domain, regardless of whether or not the then-owner is still currently selling it.
Of course, it's all a moot point because Disney goes and purchases Congress every twenty years to extend the date, every time the first Mickey Mouse cartoon is getting close to the cutoff point. Expect them to have it extended another 20 years sometime before 2023, which is when Mickey would theoretically enter the public domain.
Will Vista ever receive WinFS? Did Microsoft ever say what is going to happen to WinFS?
I heard that it's in the pipeline for the second service pack, around the time that it hits the server product in the boxed form. But as to how they're going to convert the file system, etc... I can't imagine that it's going to be as easy as FAT32 to NTFS, at least from the programmer point of view.
WinFS itself isn't a file system, the name is deceptive. It's really an extra layer on top of NTFS that provides a relational view of the file system (ala SQL).
Anytime someone uses 'abandonware' in a serious attempt to argue that a piece of software is legal, they're full of BS. Abandonware is just X year old (5 typically) warez, just with a different name so people feel less guilty.
...and so ends my lurking.
steejee on
The Great DAMNED STEAM SALES AND WII/U Backlog Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4 Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
And "longhorn /= vista" is idiotic. longhorn was the development name of vista. just because they pulled some features from it doesn't mean they don't still own that.
(snip)
This has been bugging me since I started posting here ages ago ... but is "/=" a form of "not equal" in some programming language (like != in C) or is it just a way of writing ≠ ?
mausmalone on
0
Options
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
And "longhorn /= vista" is idiotic. longhorn was the development name of vista. just because they pulled some features from it doesn't mean they don't still own that.
(snip)
This has been bugging me since I started posting here ages ago ... but is "/=" a form of "not equal" in some programming language (like != in C) or is it just a way of writing ≠ ?
Yes.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
There is no way that this is legal. Regardless of the fact that EULA aren't really enforceable in court, this seems to just be a way of "getting back at the man."
"9.OpenOffice threatens MS Office. Despite numerous arguments that OpenOffice
lacks this or that feature, the "good enough" syndrome will ensure
that OpenOffice will eventually overtake MS Office. If, as has been suggested,
Office 2007 is going to require massive retraining, companies are going to look
at OpenOffice much more closely. The funny part is that OpenOffice is being used
by many people to fix MS Word documents that MS Word cannot read!"
Heh, I love Linux, but Open Office is the crappiest most bloated thing running on my Linux box. Open Office is vastly inferior to Office 2007 (which was a HUGE improvment over previous versions IMO).
Microsoft has problems. If they never changed a thing about what they are doing and never developed a new product, eventually they would fail. This isn't going to happen, the one thing Microsoft does really really well is adapt to changing markets, one-uping innovative products and giving you a huge incentive to use their product instead. They are not going anywhere.
Namel3ss on
May the wombat of happiness snuffle through your underbrush.
Yea, OpenOffice takes about a minute to load for me. MS Office takes about 15 seconds.
I use WordPad though, and that doesn't even take a second to load.
That's something these free open-source programs need to work on is bloatiness and load times. The GIMP, for example, takes a lot longer to load than either PhotoShop or Paint Shop Pro, and the GUI is a lot harder to navigate around (WHY ARE THERE 3 DIFFERENT WINDOWS!?).
Seriously, it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to work the flood tool, and the layers and crop tool was just awkward.
Yea, OpenOffice takes about a minute to load for me. MS Office takes about 15 seconds.
I use WordPad though, and that doesn't even take a second to load.
That's something these free open-source programs need to work on is bloatiness and load times. The GIMP, for example, takes a lot longer to load than either PhotoShop or Paint Shop Pro, and the GUI is a lot harder to navigate around (WHY ARE THERE 3 DIFFERENT WINDOWS!?).
Seriously, it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to work the flood tool, and the layers and crop tool was just awkward.
Heh. I've never been able to stand Open Office for those same reasons. I just write LaTeX / docbook / HTML in notepad nowadays. Unless my boss wants to edit it. Then its gotta get formatted up for Word again. Somehow I managed to teach myself a lot of Gimp though.
And "longhorn /= vista" is idiotic. longhorn was the development name of vista. just because they pulled some features from it doesn't mean they don't still own that.
(snip)
This has been bugging me since I started posting here ages ago ... but is "/=" a form of "not equal" in some programming language (like != in C) or is it just a way of writing ≠ ?
Yes.
Indeed.
(I was more wondering if it's from a programming language, then what programming language? If it's not, then carry on.)
And "longhorn /= vista" is idiotic. longhorn was the development name of vista. just because they pulled some features from it doesn't mean they don't still own that.
(snip)
This has been bugging me since I started posting here ages ago ... but is "/=" a form of "not equal" in some programming language (like != in C) or is it just a way of writing ≠ ?
Yes.
Indeed.
(I was more wondering if it's from a programming language, then what programming language? If it's not, then carry on.)
actually, I was going for the != thing, but had a mental block on what I wanted to put in. I learned C# a couple years ago(vowed never to touch it with a 10ft pole again), and I know that != is the "does not equal" operator, I just forgot for a moment :P
It has been estimated that MS looses $200 on every XBox 360 it sells;
and the target for this year is 5,000,000 sales.
Actually, Microsoft is currently MAKING around $75 on each 360 it sells. And the 65nm chips aren't even out yet. If there's one thing they did well with the console's design/construction, it's cost reduction.
It has been estimated that MS looses $200 on every XBox 360 it sells;
and the target for this year is 5,000,000 sales.
Actually, Microsoft is currently MAKING around $75 on each 360 it sells. And the 65nm chips aren't even out yet. If there's one thing they did well with the console's design/construction, it's cost reduction.
So either that article is wrong, or way outdated.
Or intentionally misleading. Overplaying OpenOffice and Linux's success makes me think as much. Yeah, Linux made major inroads, but it's also hit stumbling blocks and lost a good bit of its gains, especially in home systems. The guy's personal experience I'd bet anything because he says, "That's just how windows is. You can't fix it at all. Just install Linux." OpenOffice is, as stated above, a piece of crap now, and has been for a long time. The fact that it's an ISO standard means nothing - there's an ISO standard for implementing TCP/IP via carrier pigeon, and another for a transparent add-on protocol to that standard for cleaning up pigeon shit.
It has been estimated that MS looses $200 on every XBox 360 it sells;
and the target for this year is 5,000,000 sales.
Actually, Microsoft is currently MAKING around $75 on each 360 it sells. And the 65nm chips aren't even out yet. If there's one thing they did well with the console's design/construction, it's cost reduction.
So either that article is wrong, or way outdated.
Or intentionally misleading. Overplaying OpenOffice and Linux's success makes me think as much. Yeah, Linux made major inroads, but it's also hit stumbling blocks and lost a good bit of its gains, especially in home systems. The guy's personal experience I'd bet anything because he says, "That's just how windows is. You can't fix it at all. Just install Linux." OpenOffice is, as stated above, a piece of crap now, and has been for a long time. The fact that it's an ISO standard means nothing - there's an ISO standard for implementing TCP/IP via carrier pigeon, and another for a transparent add-on protocol to that standard for cleaning up pigeon shit.
Open office might not be good, but it's better than wordpad, or for a lot of people, spending a couple hundred bucks on office.
hell, my girlfriend's family was using fucking Microsoft works. I didn't know that still existed. They bought the PC in 2005, and even then, the word processor is based on Word 97. They are now on openoffice, and love it.
Longhorn is not abandonware, it was a codename for Windows Vista, similar to how Whistler was the codename for XP.... Despite it having features pulled from it, Vista still is basically Longhorn, minus a few of the bulky features that were slowing down release...
These people will be taken down, simply a matter of time... Their logic would tell me to simply get an Alpha or beta version of Whistler and just modify that for my own needs... Craziness...
Just saw this story on Digg, shouldn't be too much longer now before M$ says something I'm guessing.
Don't do that. Isn't that a banning offence? It should be a banning offence. Don't do that. It makes you look like an idiot and brings down the tone of the whole place. And god knows, our tone can't stand to get much lower.
Posts
I also wouldn't doubt ensemble contacted some of them for potential contracting.
Hmm, they use abandonware for things I would have thought would be called freeware. Oh well, whatever.
Are they even modifying the original program, or just writing userland programs?
Not sure if they're changing anything or not, but their logic is pretty broken. The code isn't abandoned, as somebody pointed out in that thread, a lot of the stuff that got gutted from Longhorn to Vista is still in the pipes for the next version of windows. Even if it was abandoned, Microsoft still owns it, and they've never been ok with beta versions being distributed. There's a reason why you couldn't just go on Microsoft.com and pick up Longhorn betas, and I vaguely remember license agreements when I got my beta disks that said I can't distribute it to unauthorized users ever, before or after the final version launches. Can't remember for sure, I skim the first two paragraphs of those things, get bored, pagedown to the bottom and click next.
At least they seem to be honest about one bit:
Then there's this bit:
This sounds a bit misleading - it's possible he represented himself as having a legitimate version, or that he's actually a legitimate user, but I'm sure it's not legal to distribute it. And from the sounds of it, they cracked the built-in timeout so it'll work forever...
The old "Microsoft hasn't said anything to us yet" argument about warez is bunk. Microsoft runs all over the internet killing what torrents they can. Just because nobody's managed to squash piracy entirely doesn't mean it's legal to pirate until you're told to stop.
Still, go ahead and use it if you want. I warn you: Vista was an improvement over the versions of Longhorn I used, and they were early betas, not alphas.
WinFS has been in development longer than most of you have been alive. It's the Duke Nukem of Windows components.
Although I like my OS updates like my console cycles - every four years. I really hope they just fucking ignore Apple and release when it's done.
You can't just start distributing a beta because it's reached a certain age. In fact, I'd think that there would be some licensing conditions that explicitly prohibit you from using it after a certain date.
This is Microsoft we are talking about, right? My money is that whatever is next is out a year after the date it would be relevant.
Of course, some believe that Microsoft is dieing ever-so-slowly:
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
While it does bring up some interesting views, none of them are really thought through. Microsoft to sell itself to Bill Gates in five years.
As far as I understand it, Abandonware isn't even a legal term. At best it means that the publisher has officially granted an open license on the software (which means that they still ultimately hold the copyright to the software but have granted permission for anybody to use, copy and maybe even distribute and alter it - see Grand Theft Auto as an example of free use), in other words freeware, and at worst it means that whoever owns the copyright is simply unlikely to pursue anybody trying to do the above either because they no longer exist in any functional capacity or because they have bigger things to deal with. The later case is a risky game, because at any moment the copyright owner could turn round and bite you.
Legally, it would only officially become abandonware (eg public domain) after 75 years of the last official publish, which is why companies like Nintendo periodically re-release old games, because it effectively resets the timer on the public domain rights. Due to the videogame industry being in it's infancy, you're only likely to start seeing the first public domain games surfacing in about another 40 years.
Oh, and as for Longhorn. Legally, the code is all still the property of Microsoft unless they release an official copyright license stating otherwise. You don't loose the rights to copyright ownership simply through neglect or because you've moved on to making something different, you have to formally give them away.
I was under the impression that if you do not protect your copyrighted material you lose the copyright. Or am I confusing that with patents and/or trademarks?
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
That's only true of trademarks.
Yes, you are confusing that with patents. Although (I think) even in the case of patents, if you can sufficiently prove that you came up with the idea first, you can void a subsequent patent (but patents aren't really my area). Trademarks also don't require protection, it just makes things easier and there is an official registry. Copyright is an automatic right granted as soon as any work is 'fixed' (which just means created or recorded in some physical state).
No it's not, trademarks don't automatically require registration to be protected. Simply using it is normally sufficient to protect it by law in most jurisdictions.
Irrelevant. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that once you have a trademark, you must pursue legal action against anyone you discover infringing it or you risk the trademark becoming generic.
The same is not true of copyrights and/or patents. Both are exclusive grants that do not expire simply because you let some infringers get away with it.
Prior art is a defense against infringement. It has nothing to do with what the guy you're responding to asked about, which is had to do with whether or not it was copyright, patent, or trademarks that you as the holder can lose if you don't sue any infringers you discover (again, the correct answer is Trademark).
False.
Ok, fair enough. I was meaning protection in terms of it needing to be registered to be protected, rather than defending it's use after the fact. You don't have to protect your trademark in advance (ie, register it), you just have to protect if anybody tries to use it. Semantics, I guess, but that was the angle I was coming from. You don't have to register a trademark in order for it to be considered your property, you just need to use it. I hadn't realised that your ownership of a trademark could evaporate if you fail to religiously prosecute anybody who infringes it though, that's kind of odd. Especially as the original designer could still prosecute anybody who uses your trademark because they own copyright over it, which doesn't lapse if you fail to defend it AFAIK.
Off topic: Your sig reminds me of that youtube vid I saw of the business people who got stuck on the escalator.
Sorry, carry on!
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
No, no it doesn't. First of all, the date is 90 years, and that's after the initial copyright. After that time, the work becomes public domain, regardless of whether or not the then-owner is still currently selling it.
Of course, it's all a moot point because Disney goes and purchases Congress every twenty years to extend the date, every time the first Mickey Mouse cartoon is getting close to the cutoff point. Expect them to have it extended another 20 years sometime before 2023, which is when Mickey would theoretically enter the public domain.
the copyright would apply to the code and images of the program
trademark would apply to the "Longhorn" name itself as it relates to operating systems
WinFS itself isn't a file system, the name is deceptive. It's really an extra layer on top of NTFS that provides a relational view of the file system (ala SQL).
Anytime someone uses 'abandonware' in a serious attempt to argue that a piece of software is legal, they're full of BS. Abandonware is just X year old (5 typically) warez, just with a different name so people feel less guilty.
...and so ends my lurking.
Just Finished: Borderlands (waste of $7)/Mario Brothers U/The Last Story/Tropico 4
Currently Playing: NS2/ZombiU/PlanetSide 2/Ys/Dota2/Xenoblade Chronicles
On Hold: Prince of Persia: Warrior Within/GW2/Scribblenauts
Coming Next: Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones/X-Com Classic
This has been bugging me since I started posting here ages ago ... but is "/=" a form of "not equal" in some programming language (like != in C) or is it just a way of writing ≠ ?
Yes.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
lacks this or that feature, the "good enough" syndrome will ensure
that OpenOffice will eventually overtake MS Office. If, as has been suggested,
Office 2007 is going to require massive retraining, companies are going to look
at OpenOffice much more closely. The funny part is that OpenOffice is being used
by many people to fix MS Word documents that MS Word cannot read!"
Heh, I love Linux, but Open Office is the crappiest most bloated thing running on my Linux box. Open Office is vastly inferior to Office 2007 (which was a HUGE improvment over previous versions IMO).
Microsoft has problems. If they never changed a thing about what they are doing and never developed a new product, eventually they would fail. This isn't going to happen, the one thing Microsoft does really really well is adapt to changing markets, one-uping innovative products and giving you a huge incentive to use their product instead. They are not going anywhere.
I use WordPad though, and that doesn't even take a second to load.
That's something these free open-source programs need to work on is bloatiness and load times. The GIMP, for example, takes a lot longer to load than either PhotoShop or Paint Shop Pro, and the GUI is a lot harder to navigate around (WHY ARE THERE 3 DIFFERENT WINDOWS!?).
Seriously, it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to work the flood tool, and the layers and crop tool was just awkward.
The good thing about bloat is if you wait long enough you eventually get enough CPU power to make it go away. :P
Indeed.
(I was more wondering if it's from a programming language, then what programming language? If it's not, then carry on.)
actually, I was going for the != thing, but had a mental block on what I wanted to put in. I learned C# a couple years ago(vowed never to touch it with a 10ft pole again), and I know that != is the "does not equal" operator, I just forgot for a moment :P
4132 diggs currently. Looks like the group has found their publicity.
Actually, Microsoft is currently MAKING around $75 on each 360 it sells. And the 65nm chips aren't even out yet. If there's one thing they did well with the console's design/construction, it's cost reduction.
So either that article is wrong, or way outdated.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
Or intentionally misleading. Overplaying OpenOffice and Linux's success makes me think as much. Yeah, Linux made major inroads, but it's also hit stumbling blocks and lost a good bit of its gains, especially in home systems. The guy's personal experience I'd bet anything because he says, "That's just how windows is. You can't fix it at all. Just install Linux." OpenOffice is, as stated above, a piece of crap now, and has been for a long time. The fact that it's an ISO standard means nothing - there's an ISO standard for implementing TCP/IP via carrier pigeon, and another for a transparent add-on protocol to that standard for cleaning up pigeon shit.
Open office might not be good, but it's better than wordpad, or for a lot of people, spending a couple hundred bucks on office.
hell, my girlfriend's family was using fucking Microsoft works. I didn't know that still existed. They bought the PC in 2005, and even then, the word processor is based on Word 97. They are now on openoffice, and love it.
These people will be taken down, simply a matter of time... Their logic would tell me to simply get an Alpha or beta version of Whistler and just modify that for my own needs... Craziness...
Movie Collection
Foody Things
Holy shit! Sony's new techno toy!
Wii Friend code: 1445 3205 3057 5295
Don't do that. Isn't that a banning offence? It should be a banning offence. Don't do that. It makes you look like an idiot and brings down the tone of the whole place. And god knows, our tone can't stand to get much lower.