PC Gamer letter from the editor

BigRed

Since I get mags massively early from work and its not quite out on newsstands yet... I typed the letter from the editor that Gabe was talking about in the news post on Friday. (Mostly because I don't have a scanner right now). I didn't even read this until after last Friday when Gabe mentioned it, heh.

Lasagna. Penny arcade comics remind me of lasagna. More specifically, the penny arcade phenomenon reminds me of lasagna, which reminds me of penny arcade. Allow me to explain…
In 1980, I was a first-grader, happily eating paste and burning ants with my magnifying glass, when Jim Davis’ popular newspaper comic-strip character, Garfield, made his first appearance in book form in Garfield at Large. I didn’t get sucked in immediately. I read that first book and said to my mother, “This comic is utter rubbish, mumzie. It’s characters are lifeless, two-dimensional sycophants. Poor show.” But then I got into the 2nd grade, and in 2nd grade, there was this magical thing called a book club, where kids could cry crocodile tears and get their parents to order overpriced books for them. There were always two books on the list that didn’t involve a lot of actual reading—Guinness Book of World Records and the latest Garfield paperback—so, of course, those were the ones we picked.
Years passed this way—another grade, another back of World Records (“Guys! Guys! You owe me a quarter! The dude with the long, nasty fingernails is still in here!”) and Garfield books—but then, right around fourth grade, my friends and I totally lost our minds. We started believing that Garfield was rip-roaringly hilarious. “Nermal is so cute! Hehe! Odie is so dumb! Hoho! Garfield loves lasagna! Haha!” The enormous orange cat in the room was that Garfield wasn’t actually funny. Not even a little. Back in the early 80s., kids my age just sort of decided the strip was wonderful because we thought everyone else thought it was. A text-book example of groupthink.
Now, having said all that, I don’t mean to imply that I think Penny Arcade is much like Garfield—Hell no; I actually find a large number of Gabe’s and Tycho’s strips genuinely entertaining, and I recognize their talent. At the same time, Ive never quit understood the fanatical following the strip and its creators enjoy. Even my best friend, Josh Milligan, the guy who helped me get my first job in the games industry, the guy whose mother I made love to last night, even he isn’t immune to the lure of Penny Arcade. He loves EVERY comic. He goes to EVERY expo. He buys EVERY piece of schwag. And, like a religious zealot. He’s constantly trying to convert me to the church of Penny Arcade.
“Cmon, dude, you’ve got to admit that THIS one is pretty funny” Josh says after emailing me yet another PA strip. To which I reply, “Nope, its lasagna,” signaling to him that I believe he only thinks the strip is so amusing because he and his fellow fanbois are suffering from a mass Garfield-like delusion. He takes umbrage, of course, as do the overwhelming majority of my friends, both in the industry and out—including most of the staff here at PC Gamer. And that’s why, despite my own feelings, you’re sitting there on your toilet reading an issue of PC Gamer with Penny Arcade’s upcoming game splashed across the cover; I trust my friends, I trust my team, and I trust your toilet. (And I trust any sentence with the world “splashed” and “toilet” in it.)
Yup, I honestly believe this issue will be very well received—after all, the game does look and sound really damn fun. But can you imagine what will happen if my worst fears are realized and the issue ends up selling poorly? That’s right, I’ll FINALLY have the ammunition I need to convince Josh that he’s delusional! Wow, it’d be almost worth it.

Greg Vederman, Editor-in-Chief

Rankenphile

heh

thanks for sharing, Red.

Saved

I love how Vederman's writing is nigh-on incomprehensible. It's actually gotten worse with the passing of time, as he's been promoted up through the PCG ranks.

Also comparing PA to Garfield... that's just a low blow by anyone's standards.

graphicsgod

Lasagna. Penny arcade comics remind me of lasagna. More specifically, the penny arcade phenomenon reminds me of lasagna, which reminds me of penny arcade. Allow me to explain…
In 1980, I was a first-grader, happily eating paste and burning ants with my magnifying glass, when Jim Davis’ popular newspaper comic-strip character, Garfield, made his first appearance in book form in Garfield at Large. I didn’t get sucked in immediately. I read that first book and said to my mother, “This comic is utter rubbish, mumzie. It’s characters are lifeless, two-dimensional sycophants. Poor show.” But then I got into the 2nd grade, and in 2nd grade, there was this magical thing called a book club, where kids could cry crocodile tears and get their parents to order overpriced books for them. There were always two books on the list that didn’t involve a lot of actual reading—Guinness Book of World Records and the latest Garfield paperback—so, of course, those were the ones we picked.
Years passed this way—another grade, another back of World Records (“Guys! Guys! You owe me a quarter! The dude with the long, nasty fingernails is still in here!”) and Garfield books—but then, right around fourth grade, my friends and I totally lost our minds. We started believing that Garfield was rip-roaringly hilarious. “Nermal is so cute! Hehe! Odie is so dumb! Hoho! Garfield loves lasagna! Haha!” The enormous orange cat in the room was that Garfield wasn’t actually funny. Not even a little. Back in the early 80s., kids my age just sort of decided the strip was wonderful because we thought everyone else thought it was. A text-book example of groupthink.
Now, having said all that, I don’t mean to imply that I think Penny Arcade is much like Garfield—Hell no; I actually find a large number of Gabe’s and Tycho’s strips genuinely entertaining, and I recognize their talent. At the same time, Ive never quit understood the fanatical following the strip and its creators enjoy. Even my best friend, Josh Milligan, the guy who helped me get my first job in the games industry, the guy whose mother I made love to last night, even he isn’t immune to the lure of Penny Arcade. He loves EVERY comic. He goes to EVERY expo. He buys EVERY piece of schwag. And, like a religious zealot. He’s constantly trying to convert me to the church of Penny Arcade.
“Cmon, dude, you’ve got to admit that THIS one is pretty funny” Josh says after emailing me yet another PA strip. To which I reply, “Nope, its lasagna,” signaling to him that I believe he only thinks the strip is so amusing because he and his fellow fanbois are suffering from a mass Garfield-like delusion. He takes umbrage, of course, as do the overwhelming majority of my friends, both in the industry and out—including most of the staff here at PC Gamer. And that’s why, despite my own feelings, you’re sitting there on your toilet reading an issue of PC Gamer with Penny Arcade’s upcoming game splashed across the cover; I trust my friends, I trust my team, and I trust your toilet. (And I trust any sentence with the world “splashed” and “toilet” in it.)
Yup, I honestly believe this issue will be very well received—after all, the game does look and sound really damn fun. But can you imagine what will happen if my worst fears are realized and the issue ends up selling poorly? That’s right, I’ll FINALLY have the ammunition I need to convince Josh that he’s delusional! Wow, it’d be almost worth it.

That is a perfect example of an idiot! Most of what is being said is nonsensical BS ramblings! The only way the "Garfield" metaphor works is that there are two types of readers. Those that either "get/enjoy" Penny Arcade, and those that don't. That’s it! Fuck Lasagna! What a bunch of BS... I could care less about who his friends are, how he grew up, and I don't want to hear that he "fucked his friend’s mother last night". What does that have to do with PA?!? So far that I can tell, this little twenty year old punk, is lucky to have gotten a job as a writer in the first place!

I read PCGamer every now and then, and this is the first time I've seen something stupid published. Now I'm kind of glad I didn't get the mag.

Rob

Khavall

I would totally agree with this if my friends were PA readers. There are maybe 2 of my friends who read PA, and we don't take time to discuss the strip, unless it happens to come up. When I first found Penny Arcade, I was the one who introduced all of my High School friends, who now read it, to it.

So basically... I can say that I think that the comic is genuinely good. And if other people didn't like it? I'd wonder what the hell is wrong with them.

Rhesus Positive

Why just lasagne and not Garfield as a whole? I was hoping for an analogy which revolved around the delicious foodstuff itself, rather than its connection to Garfield.

DarkPrimus

Wait, that's not some LiveJournal post? Because that's how it's formatted.

BigRed

DarkPrimus wrote: »

Wait, that's not some LiveJournal post? Because that's how it's formatted.

I typed it from the magazine. Its in collums in there so laid out a little better but the text is the same.

MildQuixotic

Its not really about the comics for me, although I enjoy them I don't always even read them. Im' here for the crowd-so to speak-and the newsposts as well.

Its just a good community.

Bendery It Like Beckham

theSAVED wrote: »

I love how Vederman's writing is nigh-on incomprehensible. It's actually gotten worse with the passing of time, as he's been promoted up through the PCG ranks.

Also comparing PA to Garfield... that's just a low blow by anyone's standards.

Oh dear god, the only thing I saw was, 'Vederman's the fucking Editor and chief? did every senior systematically suicide for this to happen?'

Also, Vede isn't allowed to criticize anything, honestly... you're talking about a guy who printed out business cards that said 'Bam! It's the Vede!'

He then proceeded to add them to one issue of PC gamer so everyone could see his glorious work.

... look mommy i made a poopy

Xaquin

that letter made no sense to me

I don't know anyone who likes Penny Arcade to be part of the masses .... I know a lot of people who like Penny Arcade because Claw Shrimp and Wheatloaf are fucking funny.

strike_the_trip

I see what he's getting at because I, too, in the past, have been guilty of hoisting the hilarity of PA comics on my friends. After a few instances, though, I got the hint and stopped bothering them about it.

However, I think this was more an attempt to get the goats of PA fans and simultaneously try to win them over by making lousy jokes. The whole slept with your mom? Please... Also, I have never been less impressed by the lack of Editor-in-Chiefness this guy exudes in tandem with the typical, over-the-top elite gamer attitude. I don't know about everyone else, but I get sick of that shit pretty quickly. Finally, he caps it off, claiming he doesn't care if the magazine sells or not because it'd be a win-win for him in both outcomes.

It just seems to me that his goal all along (in writing all of this) is to either 1) spark controversy and maybe make a name for himself and 2) gain respect from PA fans for being bold or witty. Too bad none of that is happening.

In summation, fuck that guy and read the cover story article. It'll get you pumped about the game.

Tofystedeth

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with the whole "I like Penny Arcade because it's funny" angle. I mean, a friend I knew in high school pointed it out to me as something he just kind of randomly come across while playing with his new and at the time newfangled and rarish DSL connection. This was almost 8 years ago. I won't say I got in on the ground floor, but certainly before PA became the powerhouse that it is now. Hell, I still had to introduce some of my hardcore gamer/nerd friends to it a couple years ago because they'd never heard of it. They laughed too, because this shit is funny.

EDIT: Also, seriously, WTF?! Do not bash lasagna man. That was my childhood favorite food.

The Celestial

This is a definite example of "It's not for you" if I've ever seen it.

Yea, maybe I've bought into the whole "PA Sub-Culture" according to "The 'Vede". I visit the site constantly, post on the forums, buy the books, and I'd go to PAX if it wasn't across the ocean. I'd hardly say every single comic is hilarious. But there's the newsposts that back those up. Sometimes the newsposts fall short too. Big whoop, I'm not paying a dime to view the website.

While I agree they play on the "Gabe is dumb and Tycho is bitter, olol" bit in a few comics, and maybe dip into the penis well here and there. It's still a comic that you can pretty much jump into at anytime without a back-knowledge of the characters histories.

graphicsgod

The Celestial wrote: »

It's still a comic that you can pretty much jump into at anytime without a back-knowledge of the characters histories.

Not necessarily true!

I've found on many occasions, that if I don't read the news posts or back tracked over a few strips, that I come across a strip or two that doesn't make sense. Like for me, I visit the site once a month or three times a year. Then I go through the strips to catch back up to speed. Luckily I've been reading since the beginning of PA (found out about the site through Blues News), so I GET pretty much everything thats going on,.. no matter how strange. But if I just started reading now,.. I would probably be lost.

Rob

DesertChicken

I can’t grasp the intention of the last paragraph.

However, I pretty much agree with the letter as a whole. Vederman says explicitly that he doesn’t “mean to imply that” he thinks “Penny Arcade Is much like Garfield.” He’s not comparing the quality of the strips. He’s comparing the way they’re popular.

Of course, as I saw with a metaphor that Hideo Kojima used, comparing the PS3 to a movie theater and the 360 to a DVD, people took the metaphor and looked at it from the angle that supported their views. You could look at the metaphor and say, “movie theaters and dvd’s don’t match with video game consoles 100%. This metaphor doens’t make sense.” Or you could try to look at it like Kojima did and compare the differences between theaters and DVDs that are comparable to differences between teh PS3 and 360.

Ok, pointless video game fanboyism aside, let’s look at the Garfield metaphor. From what I see, Vederman is only comparing the way Penny Arcade and Garfield became successful. He even admits that they’re not the same quality wise.

Personally, I agree with him on that. I don’t think every Penny Arcade is brilliant. I mean, just look at the one where Gabe mentions a game then proceeds to punch Tycho in the face with a jar of pickles and that’s the punchline. There are some good ones that are really clever. But I enjoy Tycho’s blog more than I do the comic itself. Much of its popularity is probably becuase you see guys wearing that penny arcade shirt around and you see it has a huge community, so hey, PA must be doing something right, right?

I mean, just look at how popular CAD is… oh damn, no one interpret that metaphor.

Xaquin

I dunno .... Garfield is popular because it's crammed down throats. Walk through a grocery store and I'll bet you find at least 20 garfield items. I've never once seen a Penny Arcade plug anywhere (aside from this PC Gamer). I only found it by randomly looking for web comics a long time ago. I knew what garfield was by the time I was in grade school just by opening my eyes.

iLoveThePwrGlove

Let’s leave aside the fact that this article is very likely a marketing ploy.
Let’s ignore that the piece is structured as a series of inept allusions that thinly veil a political maneuver situating the scribe in a situation he simply cannot lose.

Hell, let’s even give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he may not be what is commonly referred to as a, “Cloud of Useless Human Excrement Vapor.”

Given these stipulations, and my own reservations concerning giving a royal crap about internet controversy, Vederman’s arguments seem to fall flat when put up to any real examination.

Vederman attempts to retract his comparison to Garfield by apparently ignoring his preceding paragraphs. “Now, having [just shat upon both Garfield and Penny Arcade], I don’t mean to imply that I think Penny Arcade is much like Garfield…” (Vederman; p. 1; “PC Gamer Editorial: TardRant.”) The assumption can thus be made that Vederman does, in fact, wish to compare the two comic strips. The qualification of his biases against Penny Arcade seem to rest in his vision of “Garfield-like,” fan-base phenomena occurring with PA. Now, Garfield was an iconic figure of mainstream mass publishing and serial merchandising. Essentially, Garfield was an enterprising machine hell-bent on selling its dignity for a suction-cupped dollar. Penny Arcade rests on its own feet and with an approach that generally keeps it out of traditional mainstream avenues. Certainly there are areas of the internet in which PA is regarded as the height of humor in the electronic entertainment arena, but you will never see a sixteen year old girl on MTV bouncing up and down and “shouting-out,” to Tycho or Gabe.

Moral of my story (I swear there is one) is that Vederman’s critique misses out on that simple fact that PA does not give a rodent’s posterior about its fame. Because of this notion, PA fans enjoy the strips but a ‘cult following,’ is most likely a delusion brought about by the fact that people do, occasionally, send their friends amusing images on the interwebs.

Harp

Really, though, Jim Davis is a whore and Gabe & Tycho are not. Which is to say that Gabe & Tycho still have that same, wide-eyed enthusiasm for gaming and for comic they had back before there even was a penny-arcade.com.

Davis? Whore. Marketing whore. Doesn't even draw his own strip anymore.

Here's hoping "The Vede" gets shitcanned for bashing his own magazine's cover story. Dick.

badfish

Haha don't read so far in to the article, I think it's mainly tongue-in-cheek.

It is pretty insane how many hits PA gets every day. I bet marketing experts lose sleep at night trying to figure out how PA gets their numbers.

Steveaux

I registered just so I could post about this silly article. I've been a fan of PA and an occasional lurker on these forums for a couple years now. Ironically I first heard about PA during the death of a gaming news site called DailyRadar.com. They tried to slam PA in their final hours and of course I had to see what the fuss was about.

Truth is I didn't get it. It just didn't seem funny to me. But for some reason I kept coming back to check on these guys. I've found that not every strip works for me. Some however are so hysterically funny I laugh every time I see them. Plenty of strips pass right by me perhaps because of age (I've been playing computer games since before a lot of folks here were born) but that's ok. Humor is a tricky thing and PA isn't always about humor as much as making a statement about gaming or the business of gaming.

Along comes this silly editor to tell us that we like PA because it's cool or edgy to like PA. That folks like PA because it's following the herd or something. I know one other person in my circle of friends that likes PA. Both of us liked it independently, but according to this Vede guy we like it because its cool to like them. Seems like he just doesn't get the humor of PA and is pissed about being left out of the party. Sometimes that happens to me but I don't throw a fit about it.

True confession I don't really get Fruit Fucker at all. Guess what, I can live with it and still be a fan of the PA folks.

Steveaux
Gaming since Space Taxi on the TRS-80

Rook

Like everyone says, I don't think he's slamming PA as a comic. He's just saying he doesn't understand how unbelievably popular it is. And that's something you don't really get a sense of until you go to things like PAX etc, or you manage to get a cover story (with 5 different covers no less) from PC gamer, or you take a real big look at the alexa rankings.

earthwulf

I've been reading this comic for years, and this letter had me so freaking pissed... it was completely unprofessional and in poor taste. I'm not a fanboi of PA - some of their stuff hits home with me, other stuff doesn't. Still, I had to write to 'em and let em know my thoughts... please, please - other people do the same.

I am not a particularly huge fan of Penny Arcade - I find it mildly amusing at best. But Mr. Vederman's column lambasting the strip is a study in off-the-chart unprofessionalism.

How is it that this issue - which features, lauds and promotes PA and its upcoming game - came to pass if the editor-in-chief feels as if Penny Arcade and it's creators are such worthless piles of pop-culture dreck? Yes, it was probably meant to be funny, but it came off as petty, vindictive, whiny and wholly unworthy of an editor-in-chief, unless it was an editor for Mad or Cracked. It was a "thou-dost-protest-too-much" jealous rage of a column, and it was horrid.

Is Mr. Vederman so completely unaware of his workplace that he thinks he works in He Man Macho Sports and Guns Monthly? the magazine is written by geeks for geeks and is about geek things. On top of that, PA, for all its faults, has done something that the self-styled "Vede" can only dream about doing - setting up a wildly successful non-profit organization that's aimed at helping kids in children's hospitals around the globe.

One can only conclude that the editor must have something against children, especially sick children. There is no other rational explanation for him to hope that this issue does poorly, thus causing the game to sell poorly, thus taking profits from Child's Play. Perhaps as a child the editor was severely beaten about the head with a crutch that a cancer-ridden bully, but that is only conjecture.

Shame on you, Mr. Vederman. You owe the people at Penny Arcade an apology, you owe the readers of your magazine an apology, and you owe your magazine a letter of resignation if this is how you treat readers and subjects alike. I've no doubt this will not be read, much less published, but I am seriously pissed at this childish column. For years I've been buying at least four issues a year at newsstand prices; until something is done to rectify this gross, overreaching use of editorial power, I won't buy another. I know that as one person, this won't make a difference to you, but this leaves a bilious taste in my mouth.

Seattle, WA

Munkus Beaver

Garfield used to be funny.

TychoCelchuuu

Garfield's still funny as long as you remove all the cat's thought bubbles. Trust me, do that and it becomes hilarious. I actually go online every day now and copy the latest comic in to Photoshop where I get rid of Garfield's bubbles. I've got about 3 weeks worth of absolute hilarity now; I'm just sorry I didn't start long ago.

PRD

Follow-Up!

I wrote a Letter from the Editor in the July issue of PC Gamer (our Penny Arcade issue) that some folks are misinterpreting - enough of them that I feel it’s time I tell my side of the story...

http://www.pcgamer.com/archives/2007/06/so_about_my_pen.html

Xaquin

unless I didn't understand that follow up, it looks like that guy just basicaly restated his article without mentioning garfield

and said a few things regarding people who "get" Penny Arcade vs. people who don't. What I don't get is why that even matters. PC gamer is supposed to review the games and not the people/source material the games sprout from right? I wouldn't care if I got Penny Arcade or not .... if the game is fun I'll play it.

ah maybe I just didn't get his gist.

Zeeb!

That was terribly written.

Wren

well its because most of you skip over his "Now, having said all that, I don’t mean to imply that I think Penny Arcade is much like Garfield—Hell no; I actually find a large number of Gabe’s and Tycho’s strips genuinely entertaining" line. and instead go "OMG HE SAID PA SUCKS AS BAD AS GARFIELD BURN HIM" so he's just dumbed down his editorial for you.

graphicsgod

Wren wrote: »

well its because most of you skip over his "Now, having said all that, I don’t mean to imply that I think Penny Arcade is much like Garfield—Hell no; I actually find a large number of Gabe’s and Tycho’s strips genuinely entertaining" line. and instead go "OMG HE SAID PA SUCKS AS BAD AS GARFIELD BURN HIM" so he's just dumbed down his editorial for you.

No, it's that we noticed how much of an idiot this guy is. It's not whether he likes PA or not. Although thats part of it... It's more on how he wrote it that we are all pretty much jumping on him for.

Also, the quote you posted even contradicts everything he said. I just don't like this guy. He rubs me the wrong way. I read his other posts and he's just wasting his and my time by writing/posting his tripe!

Rob

Brolo

graphicsgod wrote: »

Wren wrote: »

well its because most of you skip over his "Now, having said all that, I don’t mean to imply that I think Penny Arcade is much like Garfield—Hell no; I actually find a large number of Gabe’s and Tycho’s strips genuinely entertaining" line. and instead go "OMG HE SAID PA SUCKS AS BAD AS GARFIELD BURN HIM" so he's just dumbed down his editorial for you.

No, it's that we noticed how much of an idiot this guy is. It's not whether he likes PA or not. Although thats part of it... It's more on how he wrote it that we are all pretty much jumping on him for.

Also, the quote you posted even contradicts everything he said. I just don't like this guy. He rubs me the wrong way. I read his other posts and he's just wasting his and my time by writing/posting his tripe!

Rob

You don't need to sign your posts.

That's what you have a sig for.

graphicsgod

Rolo wrote: »

You don't need to sign your posts.

That's what you have a sig for.

LOL! I know, just been doing it that way for about five plus years, and it's become a habit .

Rob (whoops there I go again, lol!)

Mikesta

Seriously, please stop signing your fucking posts. It's just annoying, and redundant, and dumb.

And while we're on the subject of things that are dumb, that article was horribly written and quite childish. It just goes to show that game journalism is a fucking joke, and that we need to start holding these guys to some standards if we want better gaming coverage in the future. If a Newsweek or Popular Science editorial were written this way, the author would be out of a fucking job.

I haven't read his follow-up yet, but I don't much care; the opinion itself isn't the reason I hate the editorial anyway. I hate it because the author obviously can't write for shit, and should stop making his opinions known in public forums.

Hell, I'm a journalism major now, and if I ever drop out for any reason, I'll probably just go for a job in game journalism.

lilylidou

This article write excellent.
Thanks for share.

graphicsgod

Mikesta wrote: »

Seriously, please stop signing your fucking posts. It's just annoying, and redundant, and dumb.

Ok sig natzi! If it makes you happy, I'll drop it. Sheesh, whats next...?!

Tofystedeth

The followup was good. It was like it was written by a different person, except for a couple of lines.

__________________
Tofystedeth
This is not a sig. I inserted this manually to piss off Mikesta

Thello

Man, has it been that long since I read PC Gamer? That editorial is absolutely awful. Not because I disagree - I don't find Penny Arcade funny anymore either - but it's simply a poorly written article and probably not in the best taste considering what's on their cover.

Mikesta

Tofystedeth wrote: »

The followup was good. It was like it was written by a different person, except for a couple of lines.

__________________
Tofystedeth
This is not a sig. I inserted this manually to piss off Mikesta

Oh, wow. Hey everybody, look at Mr. Fucking Clever here. Man, he really "stuck it to me." His insult was so god damn clever, I don't know what the fuck I'm going to do. Here I thought I was right, I really did, but then this rebellious trailblazer came and taught me what's what. I'd better watch what I say from now on, because Tofystedeth (whatever the fuck "Tofystedeth" means) is on the prowl.

Thello

Mikesta wrote: »

FORUMS MAKE ME SO ANGRY

Dial down the nerd rage a bit there buddy. You've achieved being far more annoying than he was in signing is posts.

JAEF

Even after reading that follow-up... that letter from the editor was just poor.

strike_the_trip

Thello wrote: »

Mikesta wrote: »

FORUMS MAKE ME SO ANGRY

Dial down the nerd rage a bit there buddy. You've achieved being far more annoying than he was in signing is posts.

Ha! Nerd rage...

On a topic-related note, it sounds like the uproar here really got to "the Vede".