I don’t say this to step on anybody else’s joys, but I thought Luke’s presence absolutely ruined what should have been the most emotional moment in the show thus far. The audience should be keyed in on Mando’s reaction to losing this little guy he’s bonded with, and we kept cutting to Saturday Morning Cartoon Mark Hamill to show off that our audio engineers can perfectly emulate 1983 recording technology and our visual effects people are... pretty good.
Seriously, I’m glad people enjoyed it so much, but it really soured me on the show. It felt like nostalgia stepping on actual story, which always feels like a bad sign for Star Wars. And the stinger felt real “Drink more Ovaltine” after that.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
I'm hoping they retcon it so that he ate the knights of Ren.
+14
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
If he was still around by the time that all happened, they'd be the Knights of Grogu, and their reign of terror would involve stealing everyone's cookies.
Haven't read them myself yet, but didn't the comics have Kylo Ren only ended up killing the students who specifically came after him(plus anyone who died in the the storm or whatever that tore up the school when he ran)?
It's plausible that there are students who Luke just sent home or something, those who were off doing their own thing after finishing their training, etc.
edit: Apparently the three students who went after Kylo Ren also thought Luke was dead, so things were real confused that night. It's not really clear who lived or died after Kylo raged out from Luke standing over him and blasted the new temple, so the whole situation's a big box of maybe that they can dig into or not as they like.
Luke running away without checking to see if anyone else was alive fits in well with his whole ST deal of being an incompetent failure who cut and ran while his failures ruined the galaxy, as is the Jedi way.
If he was still around by the time that all happened, they'd be the Knights of Grogu, and their reign of terror would involve stealing everyone's cookies.
So no, Grogu did not become a Knight of Ren.
Grogu Snoke.
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Haven't read them myself yet, but didn't the comics have Kylo Ren only ended up killing the students who specifically came after him(plus anyone who died in the the storm or whatever that tore up the school when he ran)?
It's plausible that there are students who Luke just sent home or something, those who were off doing their own thing after finishing their training, etc.
Luke: "Hey, Grogu, remember a loooong time ago when we said your aunt Yaddle said you should go to camp that one summer so you left the Jedi temple but instead of dropping you off at camp she said 'don't use the force' and stuck you in a box and mailed you to a random address before some clone troopers blew her up? Well... let's just say it's summertime again."
I'd imagine since there's no way marketing folks would allow the Mandalorian S3 without Grogu, he's likely not going to be in Luke's care for very long.
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
I'd imagine since there's no way marketing folks would allow the Mandalorian S3 without Grogu, he's likely not going to be in Luke's care for very long.
It doesn’t make sense for George to leave Luke. He’s there to stay.
I'd imagine since there's no way marketing folks would allow the Mandalorian S3 without Grogu, he's likely not going to be in Luke's care for very long.
It doesn’t make sense for George to leave Luke. He’s there to stay.
Instead, we’ll get his brother GroTwo
Gro2? GroToo?
Knowing marketing they'll probably suggest Baby Jar Jar.
Honestly I'd like to see grogu just be gone. I loved the lil bugger, but the show doesn't need him anymore, and any effort to keep him around would just drag down the product. There's a saying in writing about being willing to kill your children and hopefully the writers of this show take it to heart.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Personally I was always more of a knights of stimpy guy
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Also I'm pretty sure I heard the cloner scientist dude say "m-count" and I physically recoiled.
I don't believe it was ever clarified what the blood specifically is for yet. I would have figured it would be to complete the Dark Troopers since old lore was they were force sensitive superwarriors, but then they turned out to just be roberts.
Also I'm pretty sure I heard the cloner scientist dude say "m-count" and I physically recoiled.
I don't believe it was ever clarified what the blood specifically is for yet. I would have figured it would be to complete the Dark Troopers since old lore was they were force sensitive superwarriors, but then they turned out to just be roberts.
Also I'm pretty sure I heard the cloner scientist dude say "m-count" and I physically recoiled.
I don't believe it was ever clarified what the blood specifically is for yet. I would have figured it would be to complete the Dark Troopers since old lore was they were force sensitive superwarriors, but then they turned out to just be roberts.
In the videogame Dark Forces, "Dark Troopers" were robot stormtroopers developed by Imperial General Mohc onboard his star cruiser Arc Hammer, and were to be an unstoppable technological development against the Rebel Alliance (right up there with Death Stars, Sun Crushers, Phantom V38 Tie Fighters, and possibly some other stuff from the 90's EU that I can't remember. Star Forges!).
However, in the comic series Dark Empire and I think also Dark Empire II, Dark Troopers wore black stormtrooper armor and had some force sensitivity and were elite soldiers to clone Palpatine's "darksiders" (basically inquisitors). They sort of remind me of the Death Troopers from Rogue One, although without the force part.
Also I'm pretty sure I heard the cloner scientist dude say "m-count" and I physically recoiled.
I don't believe it was ever clarified what the blood specifically is for yet. I would have figured it would be to complete the Dark Troopers since old lore was they were force sensitive superwarriors, but then they turned out to just be roberts.
I went back and looked it up, Dark Forces never explicitly states they were droids. Rebellion later claimed they were force users, but it looks like they were later retconned to be butchered clone troopers and then later models were just droids.
Also I'm pretty sure I heard the cloner scientist dude say "m-count" and I physically recoiled.
I don't believe it was ever clarified what the blood specifically is for yet. I would have figured it would be to complete the Dark Troopers since old lore was they were force sensitive superwarriors, but then they turned out to just be roberts.
The Empire's creativity being what it was, the idea that only one experimental black site super weapon research team would have been working on something called "Dark Troopers" seems shortsighted.
Like, there could have been a half dozen Dark Trooper program, but only one that was working on storm trooper battle droids. Could have been force sensitive troopers, mass produced clone troopers, 40k Space Marine style enhanced troopers...
Honestly I'd like to see grogu just be gone. I loved the lil bugger, but the show doesn't need him anymore, and any effort to keep him around would just drag down the product. There's a saying in writing about being willing to kill your children and hopefully the writers of this show take it to heart.
I mean I was really liking the "father/baby on an adventure" thing they had going on, I thought it was fun, relatable, and provided good character growth and story beats.
That said, they moved the story in a different direction. Which is also fine, but they can't just move it back now. So yeah, I agree, Grogu should be mostly out of here.
There's all sorts of rumor mill shit going around that Favreau wants to retcon the ST and he's in a battle with Kennedy over control of Star Wars going forward, but honestly I think it's all a load of shit and folk are just focused on making the best thing they can in the moment and not worrying too much about the bigger picture.
Which, fine. It means Star Wars will never be the MCU, but maybe we'll get more stuff from more diverse voices. (it's still disney, so probably not, but hope is free)
Also I'm pretty sure I heard the cloner scientist dude say "m-count" and I physically recoiled.
I don't believe it was ever clarified what the blood specifically is for yet. I would have figured it would be to complete the Dark Troopers since old lore was they were force sensitive superwarriors, but then they turned out to just be roberts.
I went back and looked it up, Dark Forces never explicitly states they were droids. Rebellion later claimed they were force users, but it looks like they were later retconned to be butchered clone troopers and then later models were just droids.
Why would Grogu die in Kylo Ren's attack? Jedi training is a weekend course, I'm not even sure why Luke took him off Gideon's cruiser. They could have just fucked around with a palm frond for 20 minutes in the hangar, then Grogu could have left with Din as a Jedi master.
Why would Grogu die in Kylo Ren's attack? Jedi training is a weekend course, I'm not even sure why Luke took him off Gideon's cruiser. They could have just fucked around with a palm frond for 20 minutes in the hangar, then Grogu could have left with Din as a Jedi master.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a random person shortly after Episode VIII. He was saying how he was disappointed that Rey wasn't shown getting much training from Luke, but suddenly she's way better with the Force when she leaves. He said it felt like no time at all passed, which is a fair argument. However there is also the counter-example of Luke in Episode V, where he is not really shown doing all that much with Yoda and for an indeterminate amount of time. Or how there is one scene in Episode IV with Luke doing one training exercise with Obi-Wan (again during an indeterminate amount of time while traveling to Alderaan) but he is able to use the Force to hit the shot to destroy the Death Star after that.
My conclusion was that Star Wars has always been kind of fast and loose with what training to use the Force actually involves. At no point in the Original Trilogy is Luke shown training to fight a lightsaber duel, but he greatly improves between Episodes V and VI with I guess self-study? I'm pretty sure he received no further training from Yoda after he left to try and save his friends. So really it seems more of a matter of mastering your connection to the Force and letting it guide and empower you instead of learning actual skills like how to fight with a laser sword, at least as seen on screen in the Original Trilogy and the Sequel Trilogy. The Prequel Trilogy and supporting media like the cartoons seems to take a slightly different approach.
Anyways I find stuff like that interesting to think about.
Haven't read them myself yet, but didn't the comics have Kylo Ren only ended up killing the students who specifically came after him(plus anyone who died in the the storm or whatever that tore up the school when he ran)?
It's plausible that there are students who Luke just sent home or something, those who were off doing their own thing after finishing their training, etc.
edit: Apparently the three students who went after Kylo Ren also thought Luke was dead, so things were real confused that night. It's not really clear who lived or died after Kylo raged out from Luke standing over him and blasted the new temple, so the whole situation's a big box of maybe that they can dig into or not as they like.
Luke running away without checking to see if anyone else was alive fits in well with his whole ST deal of being an incompetent failure who cut and ran while his failures ruined the galaxy, as is the Jedi way.
It was real bad. It went to extreme lengths to make Kylo an innocent hitler, and the art was bad, and palpatine showed up for no goddamn reason.
+1
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Haven't read them myself yet, but didn't the comics have Kylo Ren only ended up killing the students who specifically came after him(plus anyone who died in the the storm or whatever that tore up the school when he ran)?
It's plausible that there are students who Luke just sent home or something, those who were off doing their own thing after finishing their training, etc.
edit: Apparently the three students who went after Kylo Ren also thought Luke was dead, so things were real confused that night. It's not really clear who lived or died after Kylo raged out from Luke standing over him and blasted the new temple, so the whole situation's a big box of maybe that they can dig into or not as they like.
Luke running away without checking to see if anyone else was alive fits in well with his whole ST deal of being an incompetent failure who cut and ran while his failures ruined the galaxy, as is the Jedi way.
It was real bad. It went to extreme lengths to make Kylo an innocent hitler, and the art was bad, and palpatine showed up for no goddamn reason.
Wait, so in the comics they also explained Palpatine with "THE DEAD SPEAK! PALPATINE RETURNS!"??!!?
Haven't read them myself yet, but didn't the comics have Kylo Ren only ended up killing the students who specifically came after him(plus anyone who died in the the storm or whatever that tore up the school when he ran)?
It's plausible that there are students who Luke just sent home or something, those who were off doing their own thing after finishing their training, etc.
edit: Apparently the three students who went after Kylo Ren also thought Luke was dead, so things were real confused that night. It's not really clear who lived or died after Kylo raged out from Luke standing over him and blasted the new temple, so the whole situation's a big box of maybe that they can dig into or not as they like.
Luke running away without checking to see if anyone else was alive fits in well with his whole ST deal of being an incompetent failure who cut and ran while his failures ruined the galaxy, as is the Jedi way.
It was real bad. It went to extreme lengths to make Kylo an innocent hitler, and the art was bad, and palpatine showed up for no goddamn reason.
I mean, that's basically Rise of Skywalker...?
+9
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Why would Grogu die in Kylo Ren's attack? Jedi training is a weekend course, I'm not even sure why Luke took him off Gideon's cruiser. They could have just fucked around with a palm frond for 20 minutes in the hangar, then Grogu could have left with Din as a Jedi master.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a random person shortly after Episode VIII. He was saying how he was disappointed that Rey wasn't shown getting much training from Luke, but suddenly she's way better with the Force when she leaves. He said it felt like no time at all passed, which is a fair argument. However there is also the counter-example of Luke in Episode V, where he is not really shown doing all that much with Yoda and for an indeterminate amount of time. Or how there is one scene in Episode IV with Luke doing one training exercise with Obi-Wan (again during an indeterminate amount of time while traveling to Alderaan) but he is able to use the Force to hit the shot to destroy the Death Star after that.
My conclusion was that Star Wars has always been kind of fast and loose with what training to use the Force actually involves. At no point in the Original Trilogy is Luke shown training to fight a lightsaber duel, but he greatly improves between Episodes V and VI with I guess self-study? I'm pretty sure he received no further training from Yoda after he left to try and save his friends. So really it seems more of a matter of mastering your connection to the Force and letting it guide and empower you instead of learning actual skills like how to fight with a laser sword, at least as seen on screen in the Original Trilogy and the Sequel Trilogy. The Prequel Trilogy and supporting media like the cartoons seems to take a slightly different approach.
Anyways I find stuff like that interesting to think about.
By the standards of everything outside the ST, Rey is just an outright Dark Side Force user. All passion, shortcuts, and raw power (and it's just inherited power, to make it even worse), plus plain-old shitty writing that lets her whip out totally untried abilities and use them perfectly on the first try. The ST is simply a non-case overall for showing anything relevant about progressing Force mastery, as it mostly just makes up all it's own stuff and the setting will just, hopefully, ignore that in perpetuity.
Luke had somewhere between several days and several weeks of intense one-on-one training with two different Jedi Masters, living through a personal showdown with Vader, and years of self-training before he reached being a Jedi Knight, but Force lightning kicks his ass instantly. Anakin gets several years of training and is recognized to have the skills/power of a Master, but is denied the rank because his understanding of the Force is lacking (and he also gets his ass kicked by lightning). Mace Windu kicks ass all-round and nullifies Force lightning effortlessly even though he's a fraction of the age of Yoda. Yoda doesn't show really all that much more power than other Masters, but he does seem to have far more sophisticated techniques (like just cancelling out lightning barehanded).
So any of the canon SW media worth even remotely worth recognizing, yeah, Force ability is more than just raw power, understanding, or skill on their own. Using a lightsaber doesn't make you a better Force user, but learning how wield the Force with a lightsaber certainly does; one result is that you end up an incredible warrior, but that's not the intent of the training. Otherwise, the average untrained Force user should be like a young Luke: nothing obviously different about them, but with the odd stroke of "luck" now and again or a bit faster/better than everybody else at some things. Maybe something "impossible" in a moment of extreme duress, but it would be wildly uncontrolled and uncertain.
+4
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Mace Windu kicks ass all-round and nullifies Force lightning effortlessly
Mace Windu kicks ass all-round and nullifies Force lightning effortlessly
What was it that killed him again?
Defenestration wasn't it?
+4
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited January 2021
Mace Windu only died because some asshole dumbass kid cut off his friggin' arm, which was attached to the thing he was using to knock out the Force lightning.
And the lightning just blew him out the window, it didn't kill him.
Splattering on some windshield or the concrete definitely killed him though.
Ninja Snarl P on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited January 2021
Well, my main objection here is to the word "effortlessly". He was clearly struggling, and that was when Palpatine was just putting on a show for Anakin. But also he required a lightsaber to do it in the first place, Yoda just used the Force. Using a kevlar vest to stop a bullet doesn't make you Superman.
Also you can't kill a Jedi by dropping them off a high place. They'll just force push at the ground, slowing their fall.
Well, my main objection here is to the word "effortlessly". He was clearly struggling, and that was when Palpatine was just putting on a show for Anakin. But also he required a lightsaber to do it in the first place, Yoda just used the Force. Using a kevlar vest to stop a bullet doesn't make you Superman.
Also you can't kill a Jedi by dropping them off a high place. They'll just force push at the ground, slowing their fall.
I'm hearing Mace Windu may have survived his murder, and we should bring Samuel L. Jackson back is what I'm hearing.
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Seriously, I’m glad people enjoyed it so much, but it really soured me on the show. It felt like nostalgia stepping on actual story, which always feels like a bad sign for Star Wars. And the stinger felt real “Drink more Ovaltine” after that.
I'm hoping they retcon it so that he ate the knights of Ren.
Don’t even need to retcon it since the knights of ren did jack and shit
If he was still around by the time that all happened, they'd be the Knights of Grogu, and their reign of terror would involve stealing everyone's cookies.
So no, Grogu did not become a Knight of Ren.
It's plausible that there are students who Luke just sent home or something, those who were off doing their own thing after finishing their training, etc.
edit: Apparently the three students who went after Kylo Ren also thought Luke was dead, so things were real confused that night. It's not really clear who lived or died after Kylo raged out from Luke standing over him and blasted the new temple, so the whole situation's a big box of maybe that they can dig into or not as they like.
Luke running away without checking to see if anyone else was alive fits in well with his whole ST deal of being an incompetent failure who cut and ran while his failures ruined the galaxy, as is the Jedi way.
Grogu Snoke.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Don't be absurd, he just ate their brains.
Luke: "Hey, Grogu, remember a loooong time ago when we said your aunt Yaddle said you should go to camp that one summer so you left the Jedi temple but instead of dropping you off at camp she said 'don't use the force' and stuck you in a box and mailed you to a random address before some clone troopers blew her up? Well... let's just say it's summertime again."
It doesn’t make sense for George to leave Luke. He’s there to stay.
Instead, we’ll get his brother GroTwo
Gro2? GroToo?
Knowing marketing they'll probably suggest Baby Jar Jar.
And Jack left town.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Also I'm pretty sure I heard the cloner scientist dude say "m-count" and I physically recoiled.
I believe they were genetic testing for what goes into a force user.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I don't believe it was ever clarified what the blood specifically is for yet. I would have figured it would be to complete the Dark Troopers since old lore was they were force sensitive superwarriors, but then they turned out to just be roberts.
Older than 1995?
Allow me to clarify, my nerdly chum:
In the videogame Dark Forces, "Dark Troopers" were robot stormtroopers developed by Imperial General Mohc onboard his star cruiser Arc Hammer, and were to be an unstoppable technological development against the Rebel Alliance (right up there with Death Stars, Sun Crushers, Phantom V38 Tie Fighters, and possibly some other stuff from the 90's EU that I can't remember. Star Forges!).
However, in the comic series Dark Empire and I think also Dark Empire II, Dark Troopers wore black stormtrooper armor and had some force sensitivity and were elite soldiers to clone Palpatine's "darksiders" (basically inquisitors). They sort of remind me of the Death Troopers from Rogue One, although without the force part.
I went back and looked it up, Dark Forces never explicitly states they were droids. Rebellion later claimed they were force users, but it looks like they were later retconned to be butchered clone troopers and then later models were just droids.
The Empire's creativity being what it was, the idea that only one experimental black site super weapon research team would have been working on something called "Dark Troopers" seems shortsighted.
Like, there could have been a half dozen Dark Trooper program, but only one that was working on storm trooper battle droids. Could have been force sensitive troopers, mass produced clone troopers, 40k Space Marine style enhanced troopers...
I mean I was really liking the "father/baby on an adventure" thing they had going on, I thought it was fun, relatable, and provided good character growth and story beats.
That said, they moved the story in a different direction. Which is also fine, but they can't just move it back now. So yeah, I agree, Grogu should be mostly out of here.
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Which, fine. It means Star Wars will never be the MCU, but maybe we'll get more stuff from more diverse voices. (it's still disney, so probably not, but hope is free)
Dark Forces isn't cannon, but the Phase I dark trooper was indeed a droid.
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This reminds me of a conversation I had with a random person shortly after Episode VIII. He was saying how he was disappointed that Rey wasn't shown getting much training from Luke, but suddenly she's way better with the Force when she leaves. He said it felt like no time at all passed, which is a fair argument. However there is also the counter-example of Luke in Episode V, where he is not really shown doing all that much with Yoda and for an indeterminate amount of time. Or how there is one scene in Episode IV with Luke doing one training exercise with Obi-Wan (again during an indeterminate amount of time while traveling to Alderaan) but he is able to use the Force to hit the shot to destroy the Death Star after that.
My conclusion was that Star Wars has always been kind of fast and loose with what training to use the Force actually involves. At no point in the Original Trilogy is Luke shown training to fight a lightsaber duel, but he greatly improves between Episodes V and VI with I guess self-study? I'm pretty sure he received no further training from Yoda after he left to try and save his friends. So really it seems more of a matter of mastering your connection to the Force and letting it guide and empower you instead of learning actual skills like how to fight with a laser sword, at least as seen on screen in the Original Trilogy and the Sequel Trilogy. The Prequel Trilogy and supporting media like the cartoons seems to take a slightly different approach.
Anyways I find stuff like that interesting to think about.
It was real bad. It went to extreme lengths to make Kylo an innocent hitler, and the art was bad, and palpatine showed up for no goddamn reason.
Wait, so in the comics they also explained Palpatine with "THE DEAD SPEAK! PALPATINE RETURNS!"??!!?
I mean, that's basically Rise of Skywalker...?
By the standards of everything outside the ST, Rey is just an outright Dark Side Force user. All passion, shortcuts, and raw power (and it's just inherited power, to make it even worse), plus plain-old shitty writing that lets her whip out totally untried abilities and use them perfectly on the first try. The ST is simply a non-case overall for showing anything relevant about progressing Force mastery, as it mostly just makes up all it's own stuff and the setting will just, hopefully, ignore that in perpetuity.
Luke had somewhere between several days and several weeks of intense one-on-one training with two different Jedi Masters, living through a personal showdown with Vader, and years of self-training before he reached being a Jedi Knight, but Force lightning kicks his ass instantly. Anakin gets several years of training and is recognized to have the skills/power of a Master, but is denied the rank because his understanding of the Force is lacking (and he also gets his ass kicked by lightning). Mace Windu kicks ass all-round and nullifies Force lightning effortlessly even though he's a fraction of the age of Yoda. Yoda doesn't show really all that much more power than other Masters, but he does seem to have far more sophisticated techniques (like just cancelling out lightning barehanded).
So any of the canon SW media worth even remotely worth recognizing, yeah, Force ability is more than just raw power, understanding, or skill on their own. Using a lightsaber doesn't make you a better Force user, but learning how wield the Force with a lightsaber certainly does; one result is that you end up an incredible warrior, but that's not the intent of the training. Otherwise, the average untrained Force user should be like a young Luke: nothing obviously different about them, but with the odd stroke of "luck" now and again or a bit faster/better than everybody else at some things. Maybe something "impossible" in a moment of extreme duress, but it would be wildly uncontrolled and uncertain.
What was it that killed him again?
Defenestration wasn't it?
And the lightning just blew him out the window, it didn't kill him.
Splattering on some windshield or the concrete definitely killed him though.
Also you can't kill a Jedi by dropping them off a high place. They'll just force push at the ground, slowing their fall.
I'm hearing Mace Windu may have survived his murder, and we should bring Samuel L. Jackson back is what I'm hearing.