Where has this idea come from that Wanda can solo Thanos and all the Avengers?
We already saw for sure that she could solo Thanos and, by that metric, she should be able to defeat any of the other Avengers solo (the one definite exception would be Danvers, who was beating wholesale Thanos ass in 1v1 in melee combat no less; Strange might be a match too). The Avengers as a team? I wouldn't count on that, she's just human-tough and one punch could knock her out. Only a matter of time before she gets distracted and all it would take is one passing hit from Sam or whoever to end the fight.
I did like they show the footage of SWORD taking apart Vision and shortly after mentioning that Visions living will stated he didn't want that. Wanda is bad because she is ignoring Visions wishes!
He didn't want to become a weapon or be revived. SWORD was using his tech for non-sapient space exploration robits, so that might actually be a kosher use Vision authorized.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Where has this idea come from that Wanda can solo Thanos and all the Avengers?
A lot of it comes from her comic book origins, similar to how people assumed that Captain Marvel was super strong based on her comics power set. I think Feige has come out on the record as stating that Scarlet Witch is perhaps the strongest Avenger in the MCU, though. She's just very raw into her powers and doesn't fully understand their limits or how to use them.
I wonder if we're going to get married...with children next. A disfunctional TV family would kinds fit now.
On the other hand I guess Wanda will continue with something more wholesome. Full house probably?
honovere on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Hulk is explicitly de-powered in the MCU, is my understanding. If we went by his comic book origins he has some kind of crazy arc where he destroys the multiverse on a rampage or something.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Hulk is explicitly de-powered in the MCU, is my understanding. If we went by his comic book origins he has some kind of crazy arc where he destroys the multiverse on a rampage or something.
Yes but he's still very strong, he's just not infinitely strong.
Where has this idea come from that Wanda can solo Thanos and all the Avengers?
She absolutely nearly took out Thanos in Endgame and he only survived because he ordered a full bombardment of the area.
MCU Thanos is kind of a chump without the stones.
Uh he beat the shit out of Hulk at the beginning of IW without using the stones.
He's pretty powerful all on his own.
He also held off and almost killed Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man fighting as a team.
I mean I feel it's pretty evident he would have defeated them if not for the dramatic timing of the rest of the Avengers. They were on fumes at that point.
The MCU overall pushes everyone towards the middle. The top tier are all heavily nerfed but the bottom tier gets enough of a boost to mostly hold their own against Captain America.
Danvers seems to break that, keeping a version of her binary mode and punching giant space ships.
More esoteric powers like magic and reality warping are always harder to quantify, but in the comics several reality warpers including Wanda are easily able to exert influence on a global scale or more without artefacts of ultimate power.
Hevach on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Where has this idea come from that Wanda can solo Thanos and all the Avengers?
She absolutely nearly took out Thanos in Endgame and he only survived because he ordered a full bombardment of the area.
MCU Thanos is kind of a chump without the stones.
Uh he beat the shit out of Hulk at the beginning of IW without using the stones.
He's pretty powerful all on his own.
He also held off and almost killed Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man fighting as a team.
The difference is that he was unable to actually fight Wanda. Like, sure, if he'd managed to punch Wanda it'd be over in a single hit, but that's not what happened. He was about to be crushed into a single atom with no way of fighting back.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Does this mean Howard the Duck is nerfed or buffed?
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Does this mean Howard the Duck is nerfed or buffed?
If we ever see him actually fighting, I expect he'll be buffed. He's less than peak human strength, but with the advantage of extreme skill in a martial art nobody else on Earth has the right anatomy to use.
Under MCU balance I'd expect him to be on par with Black Widow, not going to take Cap in a bulldozer pushing contest but skilled enough to hold his own against him in a fight.
Hevach on
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
If you have to call in an airstrike on your own position, it's safe to say you were losing the fight.
But in terms of who among the Avengers they could call in, I'd say Hawkeye would probably be their best bet out of who's available. No, he couldn't hope to defeat her, but force pretty clearly isn't the answer here. What she needs is someone to talk her down. He already managed to talk her to his side in Civil War, and they have the shared experience of losing someone close to them in Infinity War/Endgame.
Banner would be my second pick. Also the shared empathy over losing Nat, but they're less close. But with the advantage that I could easily see him saying "So uh, wait. What exactly were you guys doing with Vision's body for five years? Just to remind you, I'm bulletproof all the time now, so it's not a great idea to piss me off even if I won't just smash you into the ground."
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
If you have to call in an airstrike on your own position, it's safe to say you were losing the fight.
But in terms of who among the Avengers they could call in, I'd say Hawkeye would probably be their best bet out of who's available. No, he couldn't hope to defeat her, but force pretty clearly isn't the answer here. What she needs is someone to talk her down. He already managed to talk her to his side in Civil War, and they have the shared experience of losing someone close to them in Infinity War/Endgame.
Banner would be my second pick. Also the shared empathy over losing Nat, but they're less close. But with the advantage that I could easily see him saying "So uh, wait. What exactly were you guys doing with Vision's body for five years? Just to remind you, I'm bulletproof all the time now, so it's not a great idea to piss me off even if I won't just smash you into the ground."
Any of them would be better than none of them. At the very least they have shared history and battles to attempt to connect with her.
Hell, even Peter Quill would be able to talk to her from a similar position. Sure, Gamora came back but it's not the same.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I did like they show the footage of SWORD taking apart Vision and shortly after mentioning that Visions living will stated he didn't want that. Wanda is bad because she is ignoring Visions wishes!
He didn't want to become a weapon or be revived. SWORD was using his tech for non-sapient space exploration robits, so that might actually be a kosher use Vision authorized.
This is the MCU, where any organization at least semi-military in function does research to build weapons. It's possible SWORD was respecting Vision's wishes and not using him to make weapons, but the history of the MCU shows that that is probably laughably implausible. Even if the intent isn't to turn the tech into weapons right now, it would be inevitable that SWORD would use the tech to make weapons at some point.
Also, it would be super-weird for Vision to specifically request not to be revived even if possible, seeing as he's a wholly unique cybernetic organism and thus totally unaware of what he might be able to survive. I just don't buy that Vision would be stupid enough to not want to be revived when it could potentially be something as simple as jump-starting him from a car battery. That sounds like SWORD fabricating something to legally cover their ass.
Maybe Vision, like Data from TNG, likes the idea of being mortal, that it's possible for him to die, thinking it makes him more human.
Also really "who's going against the terms of Vision's will?" is really a minor point against the backdrop of "oh my God all these poor people have no mouth but they must scream"
Both SWORD and Wanda disregard Vision's wishes for selfish reasons and those are understandable motivations from each respective party. What Wanda does after stealing and reviving the body is the horrific crime.
Does this mean Howard the Duck is nerfed or buffed?
If we ever see him actually fighting, I expect he'll be buffed. He's less than peak human strength, but with the advantage of extreme skill in a martial art nobody else on Earth has the right anatomy to use.
Under MCU balance I'd expect him to be on par with Black Widow, not going to take Cap in a bulldozer pushing contest but skilled enough to hold his own against him in a fight.
He was in the massive army in Endgame. I think they just gave him a gun.
Does this mean Howard the Duck is nerfed or buffed?
If we ever see him actually fighting, I expect he'll be buffed. He's less than peak human strength, but with the advantage of extreme skill in a martial art nobody else on Earth has the right anatomy to use.
Under MCU balance I'd expect him to be on par with Black Widow, not going to take Cap in a bulldozer pushing contest but skilled enough to hold his own against him in a fight.
He was in the massive army in Endgame. I think they just gave him a gun.
Yeah because if he had to use his hands the whole planet may have cracked
I did like they show the footage of SWORD taking apart Vision and shortly after mentioning that Visions living will stated he didn't want that. Wanda is bad because she is ignoring Visions wishes!
He didn't want to become a weapon or be revived. SWORD was using his tech for non-sapient space exploration robits, so that might actually be a kosher use Vision authorized.
This is the MCU, where any organization at least semi-military in function does research to build weapons. It's possible SWORD was respecting Vision's wishes and not using him to make weapons, but the history of the MCU shows that that is probably laughably implausible. Even if the intent isn't to turn the tech into weapons right now, it would be inevitable that SWORD would use the tech to make weapons at some point.
Also, it would be super-weird for Vision to specifically request not to be revived even if possible, seeing as he's a wholly unique cybernetic organism and thus totally unaware of what he might be able to survive. I just don't buy that Vision would be stupid enough to not want to be revived when it could potentially be something as simple as jump-starting him from a car battery. That sounds like SWORD fabricating something to legally cover their ass.
They said he had a living will, which likely would have been handled by Stark's colossal team of lawyers, so I imagine if it said he didn't want to be revived, he did not want anyone to revive him.
Rememeber, he's not a just a robot; he's a synthezoid. He's vibranium bonded to human tissue. There's a very good chance he had that clause just to avoid going pet semetary on everyone's ass.
Holy fucking shit this show. I thought it looked interesting when they announced it but I was mostly only going to watch it because we already have Disney+. If you'd have told me it was going to be this good I'd have called you a liar and yet here we are.
Does this mean Howard the Duck is nerfed or buffed?
If we ever see him actually fighting, I expect he'll be buffed. He's less than peak human strength, but with the advantage of extreme skill in a martial art nobody else on Earth has the right anatomy to use.
Under MCU balance I'd expect him to be on par with Black Widow, not going to take Cap in a bulldozer pushing contest but skilled enough to hold his own against him in a fight.
Stop making me want things that will never happen
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Where has this idea come from that Wanda can solo Thanos and all the Avengers?
The fact that she solo'd Thanos to the point where he rained hellfire on his own troops to stop it.
Also how she single handidly turned the tide in Wakanda.
If she is willing to kill you, you are likely dead.
I think it's also at least heavily implied that she was trying to torture Thanos, not immediately outright kill him - so she wasn't necessarily even trying that hard
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Any Marvel character can beat any other Marvel character if the circumstances are right.
Unless one of the characters is Squirrel Girl, in which case the fight is a foregone conclusion.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Where has this idea come from that Wanda can solo Thanos and all the Avengers?
The fact that she solo'd Thanos to the point where he rained hellfire on his own troops to stop it.
Also how she single handidly turned the tide in Wakanda.
If she is willing to kill you, you are likely dead.
But she also got punked out by Midnight and Glaive during their ambush, who were then taken out by three mortals with no supernatural abilities.
So... Lets not get crazy and say she's consistently impervious/dangerous.
She's a glass cannon. She got punked because they got the drop on her and got in extremely close, she was spending half her time trying to protect herself and get Vision to safety.
If you're gonna beat Wanda, your best bet is a sneak attack, like they did in Infinity War.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Any Marvel character can beat any other Marvel character if the writing credits are right.
Let's be honest here, most of the time if neither of the ones fighting have their name on the cover, the writer's favorite wins, with some particular hacks even to the point of silliness.
Hevach on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Also I think Wanda's neighbor (whose name escapes me at the moment) has something to do with everything. She's the only person who has meta knowledge of what's going on. Everyone else is playing their part with the occasional breaking through, but she reacts according to Wanda's wishes and is ever-present.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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amateurhourOne day I'll be professionalhourThe woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered Userregular
It goes
every marvel villain < every marvel hero < doctor doom < sentry < thanos < hulk < squirrel girl
I did like they show the footage of SWORD taking apart Vision and shortly after mentioning that Visions living will stated he didn't want that. Wanda is bad because she is ignoring Visions wishes!
He didn't want to become a weapon or be revived. SWORD was using his tech for non-sapient space exploration robits, so that might actually be a kosher use Vision authorized.
This is the MCU, where any organization at least semi-military in function does research to build weapons. It's possible SWORD was respecting Vision's wishes and not using him to make weapons, but the history of the MCU shows that that is probably laughably implausible. Even if the intent isn't to turn the tech into weapons right now, it would be inevitable that SWORD would use the tech to make weapons at some point.
I think the MCU is a place where the Snap happened and the US had to rely on a bunch of random heroes and an(gasp, shock, horror) African nation to defend itself.
You know that certain parties would be ridding SWORDs ass to make "sentient weapons" for the US.
In fact:
Knowing that Falcon and the Winter Soldier is coming with Baron Zemo as one of the villains. Their Trailer including a captain america running out on football field in a pep rally situation. Something that runs counter to the Cap we know, since a big part of Cap1 was Captain America becoming more than that. Combine that with The US Secretary of Defense in the MCU being Thunderbolt Ross. To rip off Moviebob(a youtube critic that also does the a series called the Big picture where he talks about stuff like the MCU phase 4) I am certain that all of this is leading towards Avengers vs Thunderbolts for the next Avengers movie.
Therefore SWORD trying to recreated Vision with his powers as Drone soldier for the US fits such a story well. The entire situation could be a result of trying to trick Wanda into rebooting him. After all they think he is just a robot, while in reality he was so much more, especially to her. I mean who told her where Visions body was? Couldn't they just have said they cremated him and dumped the ashes? Then maybe somebody else highjacked their plan.
Also:
The Director never introduces himself or says who he is, but Wanda calls him Director. Not Agent or General or Captain, but Director. For a show with the level of detail we have seen, that sounds like a clue.
Its also suspicious that he never showed the clip of Wanda stealing Vision's corpse until he needs to get everyone on board with killing Wanda. Once it became clear that Wanda was a part of the Hex, that should have been the first thing he told them. That briefing was also heavily leaning on the bad aspects of Wanda's history. It was true, but one sided. Like he wanted a certain conclusion from the get go.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
I just remembered a moment from the original trailer and it has really spun me. Going to spoil it in case people feel that is a spoiler for the future since it definitely references episodes that have not yet aired.
During the trailer we have a scene that is not clearly set to any particular era in terms of sitcoms. Vision in his movie costume flies over to a car and does his mind freeing power we saw in episode 5 to Agnes (in a witch costume no less). She then reacts oddly and asks if she is dead because he is. We can also clearly see children running around and trick or treating. It could be her putting him on, but I don't see to what end. I am beginning to wonder if this is the second run of everything. Producers have said Wanda needs training in her powers, and Agnes in a witch costume is just getting a little to cute not to be meaningful.
The original plan being just to warp people's perceptions enough to think Vision is alive and be left alone isn't super evil in comic book terms. Agnes gets wise, sees the potential, and begins warping things to her end. Whether this is the case or not that is an extremely interesting scene to look forward to. It will explain a lot of what is going on however it resolves
Where has this idea come from that Wanda can solo Thanos and all the Avengers?
We already saw for sure that she could solo Thanos and, by that metric, she should be able to defeat any of the other Avengers solo (the one definite exception would be Danvers, who was beating wholesale Thanos ass in 1v1 in melee combat no less; Strange might be a match too). The Avengers as a team? I wouldn't count on that, she's just human-tough and one punch could knock her out. Only a matter of time before she gets distracted and all it would take is one passing hit from Sam or whoever to end the fight.
Thor is displeased everyone forgot he did kill Thanos.
*ugly cries*
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We already saw for sure that she could solo Thanos and, by that metric, she should be able to defeat any of the other Avengers solo (the one definite exception would be Danvers, who was beating wholesale Thanos ass in 1v1 in melee combat no less; Strange might be a match too). The Avengers as a team? I wouldn't count on that, she's just human-tough and one punch could knock her out. Only a matter of time before she gets distracted and all it would take is one passing hit from Sam or whoever to end the fight.
He didn't want to become a weapon or be revived. SWORD was using his tech for non-sapient space exploration robits, so that might actually be a kosher use Vision authorized.
A lot of it comes from her comic book origins, similar to how people assumed that Captain Marvel was super strong based on her comics power set. I think Feige has come out on the record as stating that Scarlet Witch is perhaps the strongest Avenger in the MCU, though. She's just very raw into her powers and doesn't fully understand their limits or how to use them.
She absolutely nearly took out Thanos in Endgame and he only survived because he ordered a full bombardment of the area.
MCU Thanos is kind of a chump without the stones.
Uh he beat the shit out of Hulk at the beginning of IW without using the stones.
He's pretty powerful all on his own.
On the other hand I guess Wanda will continue with something more wholesome. Full house probably?
Yes but he's still very strong, he's just not infinitely strong.
He also held off and almost killed Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man fighting as a team.
I mean I feel it's pretty evident he would have defeated them if not for the dramatic timing of the rest of the Avengers. They were on fumes at that point.
Danvers seems to break that, keeping a version of her binary mode and punching giant space ships.
More esoteric powers like magic and reality warping are always harder to quantify, but in the comics several reality warpers including Wanda are easily able to exert influence on a global scale or more without artefacts of ultimate power.
The difference is that he was unable to actually fight Wanda. Like, sure, if he'd managed to punch Wanda it'd be over in a single hit, but that's not what happened. He was about to be crushed into a single atom with no way of fighting back.
Also his only retaliation was to start destroying his own army with a bombardment from his ship to get her off him. He wasn't surviving any other way.
If we ever see him actually fighting, I expect he'll be buffed. He's less than peak human strength, but with the advantage of extreme skill in a martial art nobody else on Earth has the right anatomy to use.
Under MCU balance I'd expect him to be on par with Black Widow, not going to take Cap in a bulldozer pushing contest but skilled enough to hold his own against him in a fight.
But in terms of who among the Avengers they could call in, I'd say Hawkeye would probably be their best bet out of who's available. No, he couldn't hope to defeat her, but force pretty clearly isn't the answer here. What she needs is someone to talk her down. He already managed to talk her to his side in Civil War, and they have the shared experience of losing someone close to them in Infinity War/Endgame.
Banner would be my second pick. Also the shared empathy over losing Nat, but they're less close. But with the advantage that I could easily see him saying "So uh, wait. What exactly were you guys doing with Vision's body for five years? Just to remind you, I'm bulletproof all the time now, so it's not a great idea to piss me off even if I won't just smash you into the ground."
Any of them would be better than none of them. At the very least they have shared history and battles to attempt to connect with her.
Hell, even Peter Quill would be able to talk to her from a similar position. Sure, Gamora came back but it's not the same.
This is the MCU, where any organization at least semi-military in function does research to build weapons. It's possible SWORD was respecting Vision's wishes and not using him to make weapons, but the history of the MCU shows that that is probably laughably implausible. Even if the intent isn't to turn the tech into weapons right now, it would be inevitable that SWORD would use the tech to make weapons at some point.
Also, it would be super-weird for Vision to specifically request not to be revived even if possible, seeing as he's a wholly unique cybernetic organism and thus totally unaware of what he might be able to survive. I just don't buy that Vision would be stupid enough to not want to be revived when it could potentially be something as simple as jump-starting him from a car battery. That sounds like SWORD fabricating something to legally cover their ass.
Also really "who's going against the terms of Vision's will?" is really a minor point against the backdrop of "oh my God all these poor people have no mouth but they must scream"
Both SWORD and Wanda disregard Vision's wishes for selfish reasons and those are understandable motivations from each respective party. What Wanda does after stealing and reviving the body is the horrific crime.
He was in the massive army in Endgame. I think they just gave him a gun.
Yeah because if he had to use his hands the whole planet may have cracked
They said he had a living will, which likely would have been handled by Stark's colossal team of lawyers, so I imagine if it said he didn't want to be revived, he did not want anyone to revive him.
Rememeber, he's not a just a robot; he's a synthezoid. He's vibranium bonded to human tissue. There's a very good chance he had that clause just to avoid going pet semetary on everyone's ass.
Stop making me want things that will never happen
The fact that she solo'd Thanos to the point where he rained hellfire on his own troops to stop it.
Also how she single handidly turned the tide in Wakanda.
If she is willing to kill you, you are likely dead.
I think it's also at least heavily implied that she was trying to torture Thanos, not immediately outright kill him - so she wasn't necessarily even trying that hard
But she also got punked out by Midnight and Glaive during their ambush, who were then taken out by three mortals with no supernatural abilities.
So... Lets not get crazy and say she's consistently impervious/dangerous.
Dangerous yes, she's never been impervious though.
Unless one of the characters is Squirrel Girl, in which case the fight is a foregone conclusion.
She's a glass cannon. She got punked because they got the drop on her and got in extremely close, she was spending half her time trying to protect herself and get Vision to safety.
If you're gonna beat Wanda, your best bet is a sneak attack, like they did in Infinity War.
Let's be honest here, most of the time if neither of the ones fighting have their name on the cover, the writer's favorite wins, with some particular hacks even to the point of silliness.
every marvel villain < every marvel hero < doctor doom < sentry < thanos < hulk < squirrel girl
Oh, I thought you were suggesting Blue Marvel
I think the MCU is a place where the Snap happened and the US had to rely on a bunch of random heroes and an(gasp, shock, horror) African nation to defend itself.
You know that certain parties would be ridding SWORDs ass to make "sentient weapons" for the US.
In fact:
Therefore SWORD trying to recreated Vision with his powers as Drone soldier for the US fits such a story well. The entire situation could be a result of trying to trick Wanda into rebooting him. After all they think he is just a robot, while in reality he was so much more, especially to her. I mean who told her where Visions body was? Couldn't they just have said they cremated him and dumped the ashes? Then maybe somebody else highjacked their plan.
Also:
Its also suspicious that he never showed the clip of Wanda stealing Vision's corpse until he needs to get everyone on board with killing Wanda. Once it became clear that Wanda was a part of the Hex, that should have been the first thing he told them. That briefing was also heavily leaning on the bad aspects of Wanda's history. It was true, but one sided. Like he wanted a certain conclusion from the get go.
The original plan being just to warp people's perceptions enough to think Vision is alive and be left alone isn't super evil in comic book terms. Agnes gets wise, sees the potential, and begins warping things to her end. Whether this is the case or not that is an extremely interesting scene to look forward to. It will explain a lot of what is going on however it resolves
Thor is displeased everyone forgot he did kill Thanos.
*ugly cries*