Chris Messina as Zsasz was my favorite part of BoP.
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daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Finished the movie, Huntress was interesting, but even then they had to go and do the Harley voice-over explaining her origin story to the audience. And sort of did that backstory twice, once with the intro when she was ordering at the restaurant and once when Montoya recognized (how?) her at the amusement park. Sloppy.
The final fight was amusing since it was once again a pile of faceless mooks, except instead of the usual CGI mooks, they straight up had a bunch of dudes wearing masks for the fight... for reasons... The fight itself wasn't too bad. The main issue with it was that only Harley and Huntress were doing anything really interesting. Canary and Montoya were just punching, kicking, and doing judo throws. Nothing wrong with that exactly, but in a group where two of the other characters are doing ninja rolls and shooting people with crossbows, or bouncing around and smacking them with a giant hammer... you need to bring a little bit more to the scene. Also, the group rushed inside to get in a fist fight, and then when the protagonists ran outside everyone there opened up with the gunfire. I don't need every movie to be John Wick, but putting a bit more thought into the why and how of action scenes would be nice.
I'm not sure what the development of the script was like, but it does seem like they had a Harley Quinn script written and decided to squish the whole Birds of Prey in there relatively late in the writing cycle. The first half of the movie is 90% Harley, and even in the back half they only get everyone together in the same room for the final showdown. Hell, Huntress is only there due to pure random chance, and the only main characters that have had anything like a conversation with each other are Canary and Harley. There's more to making an ensemble movie than hiring a couple extra stars and shoving them into a room together for a couple scenes.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I mean, it's not Scorsese, but comparing it to GotG is silly. GotG basically had to do a 5 word intro on each character and say they were criminals... and go (excepting of course Star Lord).
Barring anything else about GotG, this is exactly what Birds of Prey needed to do. It would've handily carved out something like 30-40 minutes of runtime to spend on actual character building instead of character origins. Not to mention wasting a slot on mundane cop when there's a mountain of better women characters to fill the spot. Heck, actually get interesting with it and do something like make the diamond a mystical object instead (so it's worth more than something as mundane as money) and haul Zatarra into the mix for some real flash.
The movie has some perfectly entertaining spots, it's just heavily bloated with origins and way too interested in this stupid diamond to make room for the characters getting to actually show off.
This is a brilliant idea. I liked the movie enough, but elements of it felt half-baked. Rosie Perez is great and all, but Montoya would've been better suited as a supporting role.
I don't even think some of you watched the same movie. This is about a group of women who have been terribly mistreated by men, who initially are either trying to suck it up or take relatively petty revenge, who eventually use their anger and power to do something productive. Even better, some of the women get stuck on the same hangups as the men they are rebelling against.
I don't think anyone here would disagree with you. Personally, this is why the movie is such a disappointment. I really wanted to like it, but so much of it is a misfire. I mean, there's a strong, female, latina, lesbian detective who fights against the man -- and she's so goddamn boring.
And now I'm just thinking about if like, we had Montoya as the Question already, and she's trying to chase down Harley and the Diamond as vigilante thing and how that could have played.
I still liked the movie, but as people talk about it, it definitely feels like some money got left on the table there.
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Not having Montoya go almost immediately into The Question was definitely a missed opportunity. Her getting shafted at work could have been covered much quicker and gotten to a more interesting part of the character. As it was, it kind of tried to set her up for the role in a future film and that was a lot less interesting.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Say what you will about the awful show that was Gotham, but it had one of the best versions of Zsasz ever:
And now I'm just thinking about if like, we had Montoya as the Question already, and she's trying to chase down Harley and the Diamond as vigilante thing and how that could have played.
I still liked the movie, but as people talk about it, it definitely feels like some money got left on the table there.
Montoya as the The Question doing Question shit and driving Harley up the wall because she's like Batman with extra paranoia would've been fantastic. Like Harley is monologuing about something and Question is doing something obnoxiously loud in-shot with the underside of a table, until just before the speech peaks out and the table noisily falls apart and Harley just loses it over why the fuck Question is fucking with a table. And then Question just looks at Harley briefly and goes back to disassembling the table.
Stuff like that would've been an immensely better use of time than Montoya moping around the police station or whatever.
Umm... that doesn't feel like it would fit the theme of the patriarchy needing to get fucked.
which the moping around the police station in an I shaved my balls for this? t-shirt does to some extent.
redx on
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
As far as I care these days, removing any amount of making cops look better is an improvement to a movie. And even if Montoya was "the good cop", it's still pushing bullshit like precincts have "the good cop(s)" that are being held back instead of being top-to-bottom like they portray the Gotham PD. And she was still "the good cop" by virtue of breaking the law as a vigilante, so that was two heavy strikes against the character for me right there.
Having Montoya as Question and a brief blip about getting run out of the Gotham PD by asshole cops would've been a big improvement. No wasted time at the PD, and no having to bother with copaganda to any extent because Montoya is out there expressly because the cops were universally corrupt and shit on her.
Umm... that doesn't feel like it would fit the theme of the patriarchy needing to get fucked.
which the moping around the police station in an I shaved my balls for this? t-shirt does to some extent.
Gee, I never would have gotten how this was a "smash the patriarchy" theme since it's only a case of litterally all of the protagonists are female while all three of the antagonists (Black mask, Zasz and Joker) are male.
I think if the movie did some of the same general things but brought the various birds together quicker, it would have been better. Maybe team up Harley with Montoya instead of Cassandra (honestly, she could be cut entirely) while Huntress goes after Black Mask faster, bringing her into conflict with Black Canary (which would give Black Canary something to do). And then have the two groups meet.
I think if the movie did some of the same general things but brought the various birds together quicker, it would have been better. Maybe team up Harley with Montoya instead of Cassandra (honestly, she could be cut entirely) while Huntress goes after Black Mask faster, bringing her into conflict with Black Canary (which would give Black Canary something to do). And then have the two groups meet.
It'd help if they cast interesting and/or charismatic actresses as the other birds. They're all so forgettable. They should have just gone with the Poison Ivy role, it's a classic for a reason. There's never an impulse to care for them because they're all clearly sidekicks at best and not stars in their own right. The only person who even gets a chance to shine is Winstead and her character is underutilized so it cancels itself out. Harley/Poison Ivy/Huntress could've worked really well.
I think if the movie did some of the same general things but brought the various birds together quicker, it would have been better. Maybe team up Harley with Montoya instead of Cassandra (honestly, she could be cut entirely) while Huntress goes after Black Mask faster, bringing her into conflict with Black Canary (which would give Black Canary something to do). And then have the two groups meet.
It'd help if they cast interesting and/or charismatic actresses as the other birds. They're all so forgettable. They should have just gone with the Poison Ivy role, it's a classic for a reason. There's never an impulse to care for them because they're all clearly sidekicks at best and not stars in their own right. The only person who even gets a chance to shine is Winstead and her character is underutilized so it cancels itself out. Harley/Poison Ivy/Huntress could've worked really well.
No for two reasons. 1. I don't think the desire to pay for $Texas CGI plants was there and 2. It might have prevented creation of the best animated shows currently going and I can't have that.
I have to admit that I don't particularly remember Birds of Brey, but at the time I enjoyed that the characters by and large were oddly normal: they were messed up but not endowed with special powers. As someone who doesn't much know DC Comics, I enjoyed the ensemble as it was.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I enjoyed Birds of Prey quite a bit, but I think a lot of that hinges on just how insanely good Margot Robbie is as Harley. She's bonkers good, and I like Rosie Perez and the rest fine but despite being the titular Birds of Prey they don't have a ton to do and a lot of things just kind of happen to them while Harley is bouncing around. I liked all the stuff they did with Huntress and how people responded to her and even how she was played but I wish that Winstead had been more comic-booky in terms of the fighting and stunts and such. Same with Jurnee Smollet and Rosie Perez. I thought they did great character stuff when they had the chance but needed either more time or more polish in the stunt department along with just more screentime to demonstrate their abilities.
Ewan McGregor was fucking amazing. Black Mask as the shittiest Kingpin knockoff just made everything so much fun.
I enjoyed Birds of Prey quite a bit, but I think a lot of that hinges on just how insanely good Margot Robbie is as Harley. She's bonkers good, and I like Rosie Perez and the rest fine but despite being the titular Birds of Prey they don't have a ton to do and a lot of things just kind of happen to them while Harley is bouncing around. I liked all the stuff they did with Huntress and how people responded to her and even how she was played but I wish that Winstead had been more comic-booky in terms of the fighting and stunts and such. Same with Jurnee Smollet and Rosie Perez. I thought they did great character stuff when they had the chance but needed either more time or more polish in the stunt department along with just more screentime to demonstrate their abilities.
Ewan McGregor was fucking amazing. Black Mask as the shittiest Kingpin knockoff just made everything so much fun.
Margot Robbie acts like she's in a comic book movie. Most of the supporting cast just acted like normal actors. That's also part of what made Shazam so great. Zachary Levi got to act like a comic book character instead of the dower, angry, depressing mess that they stuck Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck with.
I adored Winstead as Huntress and Jurnee Smollet as Black Canary in that movie. I would love another one with just them and Harley getting into crazy trouble and having their personalities bounce off each other.
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
Say what you will about the awful show that was Gotham, but it had one of the best versions of Zsasz ever:
Also Gotham was fucking raaaad. I watched all 5 seasons in like 2 weeks this year. It has all the camp of the Adam West Batman but played completely straight and when the show realizes this it starts to lean into it more.
It is completely bonkers.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I’m wondering if this new movie will be tied into the Pattinson film, given HBO Max is also doing a spin-off focused on Jim Gordon (played by Jeffrey Wright)
So apparently reviews for The Suicide Squad are starting to come out, some with some choice words for the first movie, which prompted a response from David Ayer, the director of the first movie. Basically, he claims WB royally fucked things up. "The studio cut is not my movie." "...with not a single radio song in the whole thing."
It's a pretty interesting short read, touching on his tough life growing up and in the Navy, and writing Training Day, before getting to Suicide Squad stuff.
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I think it's been known that he wasn't a fan of the studio cut... will we ever see his version, though? Who knows.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
To paraphrase a friend of mine, AT&T spent a hundred million indulging another director of a poorly-received DC movie to help launch their streaming service, and that was one of many things that went so well they're having to sell off the entire entertainment division. I don't think Ayer's getting his own fine-just-stop-crying money from the stepdad anytime soon.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
I keep forgetting that AT&T dumped Warner Media on Discovery of all companies. It seems so weird that the company that makes Deadliest Catch and Mythbusters now owns Superman and Batman. I never imagined they had the capital to run a Hollywood production company. Like, 17 fucking seasons of deadliest catch probably cost less to make than Joker.
I just can't get my mind around this. I can't even begin to imagine how this will affect productions going forward. I can't imagine they'd greenlight productions as expensive as BvS or JL again.
I keep forgetting that AT&T dumped Warner Media on Discovery of all companies. It seems so weird that the company that makes Deadliest Catch and Mythbusters now owns Superman and Batman. I never imagined they had the capital to run a Hollywood production company. Like, 17 fucking seasons of deadliest catch probably cost less to make than Joker.
I just can't get my mind around this. I can't even begin to imagine how this will affect productions going forward. I can't imagine they'd greenlight productions as expensive as BvS or JL again.
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Joker is one of the cheapest super hero movies made in recent years, and also has the best ROI. I'd love for them to go that route if only to detox from fight the big blue light in the sky DBZ final fights.
He was also contracted by Universal Pictures to direct a remake of Scarface starring Diego Luna, but was let go because his script was too violent.[19]
Wut?
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I really don't give a shit what Ayer's weak justification is for a shitty movie or how long a defensive rant he makes. If he didn't want his name on the film, he should've quit. Otherwise, it's still his movie, regardless of studio meddling.
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
He also came up with the shitty Joker tat design and then went on to make Bright so I dunno
On the one hand, the first Suicide Squad was was made when WB was in full-on meddle mode.
On the other, didn't his original cut feature more Jared Leto?
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
David Ayer exclusively makes shitty toughguy movies for meatheads
There’s absolutely nothing in his filmography to make me think he has the talent or awareness to make Suicide Squad anything other than an interminable bore.
Much like Snyder, the only thing his director’s cut has a chance of being is more
Ayer was the one who was either disturbingly shitty to the cast or encouraged the cast to be disturbingly shitty to each other, right?
I forget the details aside from something about a used condom, but I remember it convinced me not to see the movie just so as to not contribute anything towards this guy's career.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Ayer was the one who was either disturbingly shitty to the cast or encouraged the cast to be disturbingly shitty to each other, right?
I forget the details aside from something about a used condom, but I remember it convinced me not to see the movie just so as to not contribute anything towards this guy's career.
No that was Jared Leto, who ended up getting almost completely cut out
Posts
Chris Messina as Zsasz was my favorite part of BoP.
The final fight was amusing since it was once again a pile of faceless mooks, except instead of the usual CGI mooks, they straight up had a bunch of dudes wearing masks for the fight... for reasons... The fight itself wasn't too bad. The main issue with it was that only Harley and Huntress were doing anything really interesting. Canary and Montoya were just punching, kicking, and doing judo throws. Nothing wrong with that exactly, but in a group where two of the other characters are doing ninja rolls and shooting people with crossbows, or bouncing around and smacking them with a giant hammer... you need to bring a little bit more to the scene. Also, the group rushed inside to get in a fist fight, and then when the protagonists ran outside everyone there opened up with the gunfire. I don't need every movie to be John Wick, but putting a bit more thought into the why and how of action scenes would be nice.
I'm not sure what the development of the script was like, but it does seem like they had a Harley Quinn script written and decided to squish the whole Birds of Prey in there relatively late in the writing cycle. The first half of the movie is 90% Harley, and even in the back half they only get everyone together in the same room for the final showdown. Hell, Huntress is only there due to pure random chance, and the only main characters that have had anything like a conversation with each other are Canary and Harley. There's more to making an ensemble movie than hiring a couple extra stars and shoving them into a room together for a couple scenes.
This is a brilliant idea. I liked the movie enough, but elements of it felt half-baked. Rosie Perez is great and all, but Montoya would've been better suited as a supporting role.
I don't think anyone here would disagree with you. Personally, this is why the movie is such a disappointment. I really wanted to like it, but so much of it is a misfire. I mean, there's a strong, female, latina, lesbian detective who fights against the man -- and she's so goddamn boring.
I still liked the movie, but as people talk about it, it definitely feels like some money got left on the table there.
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Montoya as the The Question doing Question shit and driving Harley up the wall because she's like Batman with extra paranoia would've been fantastic. Like Harley is monologuing about something and Question is doing something obnoxiously loud in-shot with the underside of a table, until just before the speech peaks out and the table noisily falls apart and Harley just loses it over why the fuck Question is fucking with a table. And then Question just looks at Harley briefly and goes back to disassembling the table.
Stuff like that would've been an immensely better use of time than Montoya moping around the police station or whatever.
which the moping around the police station in an I shaved my balls for this? t-shirt does to some extent.
Having Montoya as Question and a brief blip about getting run out of the Gotham PD by asshole cops would've been a big improvement. No wasted time at the PD, and no having to bother with copaganda to any extent because Montoya is out there expressly because the cops were universally corrupt and shit on her.
Gee, I never would have gotten how this was a "smash the patriarchy" theme since it's only a case of litterally all of the protagonists are female while all three of the antagonists (Black mask, Zasz and Joker) are male.
Maybe it could have done both. But well? In the time it had?
It'd help if they cast interesting and/or charismatic actresses as the other birds. They're all so forgettable. They should have just gone with the Poison Ivy role, it's a classic for a reason. There's never an impulse to care for them because they're all clearly sidekicks at best and not stars in their own right. The only person who even gets a chance to shine is Winstead and her character is underutilized so it cancels itself out. Harley/Poison Ivy/Huntress could've worked really well.
No for two reasons. 1. I don't think the desire to pay for $Texas CGI plants was there and 2. It might have prevented creation of the best animated shows currently going and I can't have that.
He looks so much like someone else and I can't put my finger on it.
Almost Jonathan Tucker.
I think that's Noho Hank from Barry
The actress who played Renee Montoya there will be playing the same character in Batwoman next year
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Ewan McGregor was fucking amazing. Black Mask as the shittiest Kingpin knockoff just made everything so much fun.
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Margot Robbie acts like she's in a comic book movie. Most of the supporting cast just acted like normal actors. That's also part of what made Shazam so great. Zachary Levi got to act like a comic book character instead of the dower, angry, depressing mess that they stuck Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck with.
Also Gotham was fucking raaaad. I watched all 5 seasons in like 2 weeks this year. It has all the camp of the Adam West Batman but played completely straight and when the show realizes this it starts to lean into it more.
It is completely bonkers.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
https://deadline.com/2021/07/batgirl-leslie-grace-lands-role-in-warner-bros-dc-film-1234797608/
I’m wondering if this new movie will be tied into the Pattinson film, given HBO Max is also doing a spin-off focused on Jim Gordon (played by Jeffrey Wright)
EDIT: Oh... nevermind... I made the mistake of seeing the comments for that article. I was way too late.
So apparently reviews for The Suicide Squad are starting to come out, some with some choice words for the first movie, which prompted a response from David Ayer, the director of the first movie. Basically, he claims WB royally fucked things up. "The studio cut is not my movie." "...with not a single radio song in the whole thing."
It's a pretty interesting short read, touching on his tough life growing up and in the Navy, and writing Training Day, before getting to Suicide Squad stuff.
I wonder what happened on that submarine?
I just can't get my mind around this. I can't even begin to imagine how this will affect productions going forward. I can't imagine they'd greenlight productions as expensive as BvS or JL again.
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
Wut?
On the other, didn't his original cut feature more Jared Leto?
There’s absolutely nothing in his filmography to make me think he has the talent or awareness to make Suicide Squad anything other than an interminable bore.
Much like Snyder, the only thing his director’s cut has a chance of being is more
I forget the details aside from something about a used condom, but I remember it convinced me not to see the movie just so as to not contribute anything towards this guy's career.
No that was Jared Leto, who ended up getting almost completely cut out