The map looks to be really cool: goes waaaaay farther west than even I was expecting (Marienburg! Altdorf!). It will be interesting to see if Karl Franz is there (I assume he will be).
On the other hand, looks like a lot less of Cathay than hoped for, and no Khuresh, Ind, or Nippon. It's also hard to see if Nagashizzar made it in or not at the bottom.
Also, a link to the best zoomed in version I could find, where you can make out some region names:
Honestly: surprised by how little Chaos Wastes there are between the Great Bastion and the Realm of Chaos. Apparently just one province seperating Nan-Gau and Slaanesh's realm. Also: quite a lot of mountain filler.
//
From the Micosoft website, the Ogre Kingdoms roster includes:
• Skrag the Slaughterer (Legendary Lord)
• Greasus Goldtooth (Legendary Lord)
• Tyrant (Lord)
• Slaughtermaster (Lord)
• Hunter (Hero)
• Butcher (Hero)
• Firebelly (Hero)
• + 23 units
Which is interesting is the generic Bruiser heroes didn't make the cut. (Though honestly I'm super happy about that. If you had to cut one of their four heroes, the Bruiser is the one I'd be most willing to lose.) Checking the OK's 8th edition book, they only had 14 units (minus variants). So 23 seems like it's going to be a complete roster.
You can see their building tree, and by extension the roster:
Of note: no Thundertusks or Yhetees. So... there's definitely going to be an Ogre LP, I guess.
//
Ogres are not a horde, but set up Camps anywhere on the map sufficiently far away from a settlement. These are their major settlements. Any existing settlements that they capture are capped at tier three and four building slots. The number of Camps you can set up are limited by technology. It automatically raids whatever region it's in, and you recruit units into its garrison (and can switch them with an army's units - potentially a big change for garrisons it it's not just an Ogre mechanic).
//
Every ten turns, the Ogre will get a set of three Contracts from neutral factions. These are various tasks (take a settlement, kill a lord, etc.) and will get you gold and improved relations with the contracting faction.
//
Ogres have a secondary currency: Meat. All armies have Meat upkeep in addition to Gold, and Meat can also be used in the pre-battle menu to have a feast, giving the army buffs. (Similar I suppose to Skaven being able to use Food to increase their Dwellers Below uses.) You can also have an army make offerings of Meat to the Maw on the campaign map for campaign benefits.
//
Every Ogre lord (and hero?) has a choice of four Big Names that they can try to achieve. For example, if one wins a battle with 5 Gnoblar units in their army they might choose the Big Name 'Gnoblarkicker', which then gives all Gnoblars in their army Unbreakable.
LordSolarMacharius on
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Camps are the most interesting thing to me there. It incentivizes you to keep a hostile/neutral faction around in very rich provinces and instead park a camp there and constantly raid them and bait them into attacking your reduced upkeep garrison for even more money+meat. (Occasionally sack them to keep them from doomstacking you too hard with AI cheats.)
Was a little worried Ogres would be under cooked on release but doesn't sound like it. 100% my first play through now.
Being able to choose your own garrison is very strong. One of the problems the prior two game have is that increasing building tiers can add some good new units but will push other good units off the list because of the way the garrison list is sorted. This can actually make higher tier garrisons weaker because the unit selection is less good at defense even with more units. It's really stupid.
Wondering if Ogre reliability will be a thing now with the merc mechanic (reliability only matters for the player, AI can do whatever). It might make sense to tone it down or eliminate it for Ogres so you can get your merc on.
The garrison changes could be very interesting if they roll out something similar to 'normal' races as well, but I'm not sure that they actually will. If it's something akin to a 'stationary horde' then the garrison system they're describing makes instant sense to me.
I do still hope they do something across the board with garrisons though. As danx said, choice of units can get a bit weird with tiers for some races, and also when the garrison goes above 20 units and it has to pick which get involved. The latter isn't usually a problem, but some places with special buildings and walls can get over that threshold fairly easily (e.g. Vaul's Anvil on Ulthuan). There's also a general "no DLC in basic garrisons" problem. Fine for some races, not great for others - e.g. skaven being tied to base game units only.
Edit: Also forgot to add "useless casters in garrisons". What am I going to do with a mage with one spell?
Skaven are in a weird spot. Their garrisons are very vanilla but they can do some crazy garrison defenses that other races wish they could pull off. Their towers are the strongest in the game which helps a lot. Even their tier 3 towers are good, tier 5 are alone at S+ tier. I've never really figured out what else their garrisons have going for them because as Altid says they don't get many of the crazy units in their dlcs except the warlock engineer (and maybe a plagueclaw sometimes? I forget)
The garrison changes could be very interesting if they roll out something similar to 'normal' races as well, but I'm not sure that they actually will. If it's something akin to a 'stationary horde' then the garrison system they're describing makes instant sense to me.
I do still hope they do something across the board with garrisons though. As danx said, choice of units can get a bit weird with tiers for some races, and also when the garrison goes above 20 units and it has to pick which get involved. The latter isn't usually a problem, but some places with special buildings and walls can get over that threshold fairly easily (e.g. Vaul's Anvil on Ulthuan). There's also a general "no DLC in basic garrisons" problem. Fine for some races, not great for others - e.g. skaven being tied to base game units only.
Edit: Also forgot to add "useless casters in garrisons". What am I going to do with a mage with one spell?
Don't think so. Ogre camps is sort of a stationary hybrid between a horde and a black ark and doesn't really use any new mechanics in that way, just repurposed old mechanics. So I doubt there will be a huge overhaul in terms of garrisons. Especially since their siege rework points towards their solution being reworking siege maps&AI to make more types of units useful.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Ghorst and maybe Manfred too depending on how much Sylvania there is in that projection. Would prefer Vlad and Isabela to Manfred but I'll take any vamps on the map even that punk.
What is the Witches Wood to the north west of Nordland? Another Wood Elf forest?
Witch's Wood is an alternate name of Laurelorn Forest, so maybe that one in a province with Wrecker's Point. (Though why it wouldn't just be its own special magic tree province like in Mortal Empires, I don't know...)
//
Also, the Ogre roster typed out from the screenshot of their settlement buildings:
Aside: it appears there are only two types of Butchers. In 8th edition they could take the Lores of: The Great Maw, Beasts, Heavens, and Death. In 6th edition they could only take Gut Magic.
I wonder if they've received a split in their lore (the way Kislev now has Lore of Ice and Lore of Tempests). If not, I imagine they'll be Great Maw & Beasts, dropping Heavens and Death.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Ghorst and maybe Manfred too depending on how much Sylvania there is in that projection. Would prefer Vlad and Isabela to Manfred but I'll take any vamps on the map even that punk.
What is the Witches Wood to the north west of Nordland? Another Wood Elf forest?
They have definitely mentioned there are Vamps down there on the map
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
edited November 2021
Vlad and Isabella have a compelling and tragic dark romance that transcends death itself, and have a complicated relationship with Sylvania, being some of its best rulers for generations before and after, with everything that implies.
Mannfred is a craven, petty, vainglorious bastard whose never seen a back he wouldn't stab. He's like like a furless Skaven, but somehow less trustworthy. He's also directly responsible for the world blowing up in the End Times because he simply could not get the fuck over himself for even a moment to not betray his allies out of petty vindictive spite.
And he's less fun than Konrad.
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Closing in on the end of my Achilles campaign. Just need to move my other stacks across the sea now that Greece has been subjugated and take out Troy.
I'll just take the opportunity to roll my eyes at the AI's inability to consistently put together a worthwhile army.
It's turn 102, for crying out loud, my allies whose core provinces haven't been seriously threatened in like 75 turns shouldn't be fielding stacks like this:
Meanwhile, I've had this army for like 50 turns at this point:
Veering slightly off topic, but went to fire up WH2 for the first time in a while but can't because of a "server unreachable" error. Whatever DRM (possibly Denuvo?) underlies the game has seemingly vanished from the internet (i.e. their servers are probably down). Since the game can't re-auth whatever DRM token it has, it refuses to start and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it.
Issues like this are why third party DRM is bloody awful.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
All I wanted were for minor settlements to have some buildings to create chokepoints. I know the AI can't handle them well but I really, really don't fucking care. I play TW to see cool cinematic shit.
A bit of a shame that ogres are the pre-order pack, I was hoping they would get the campaign pack treatment but the writing was on the wall and there weren't many better choices (especially after ogre mercs popped up 2). But it looks pretty good. Generally, factions in TW2 started off more interesting than the base factions in TW1 (which was a low bar, but we only say that in retrospect!), so I'm sure the TW3 base factions will start from an even healthier starting point.
I'm sure chaos dwarfs will make it in as a campaign pack eventually.
At least it seems like pre-order factions are getting more and more love in each new iteration.
Warriors of Chaos = The abandoned child in the street of Total warhammer. Did receive some work-up to make them remotely playable. Still the worst faction.
Norsca = Evil stepmother levels of neglect. Have had some level of work done, but at least their campaign is more viable and fun to play than warriors chaos. Also, they have mammoths.
Ogre Kingdoms = Interesting mechanics and almost their entire roster. Short on legendary lords, but that might just be to open up for future DLC/FLCs featuring lords+units (like yheetees).
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I'm sure chaos dwarfs will make it in as a campaign pack eventually.
TWW2 came out in late Septemeber, and Tomb Kings were January (after being delayed a month while they fixed Norsca in Mortal Empires). So I think Chorfs in May/June is a reasonable expectation.
//
Ogre Kingdoms seem primed for a Lord Pack. Bruiser heroes, Thundertusks and Yhetees are fairly prominent, and a pack could be filled out with stuff from the Goblar Country list (from White Dwarf - Pigback Riders!), making Blood Vultures into a unit (instead of a Hunter upgrade), or Maneater variants out the wazoo if they want.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
edited November 2021
I can not wait to see what the new Mortal Empires map looks like. It's gotta be nearly thrice the size of TW2. TW3 map is ~20% larger than the current ME map so the new one is going to be utterly massive. You think they're going with another Marcader projection or you think it's going to be polar like the main TW map?
I'm sure chaos dwarfs will make it in as a campaign pack eventually.
TWW2 came out in late Septemeber, and Tomb Kings were January (after being delayed a month while they fixed Norsca in Mortal Empires). So I think Chorfs in May/June is a reasonable expectation.
//
Ogre Kingdoms seem primed for a Lord Pack. Bruiser heroes, Thundertusks and Yhetees are fairly prominent, and a pack could be filled out with stuff from the Goblar Country list (from White Dwarf - Pigback Riders!), making Blood Vultures into a unit (instead of a Hunter upgrade), or Maneater variants out the wazoo if they want.
They might not necessarily release the same type of DLC in the same order, Monkey King is obviously on the table, as is possibly Jade Vamps and some Skaven.
Various YouTubers have uploaded TW3 battles such as this Khorne Vs Ogres minor settlement battle:
*snip*
CAs Facebook page has all the links
Most of those units look amazing but some of the Ogre cav at the start look kinda washed out when selected in the close ups. The green glow is screwing with the silhouette. The Ogre settlement looks fantastic and the units look great in the battle though.
Legend showed off Tzeentch with a Tzeentchy style field map. Play style looks fun but I'm a bit worried the AI might struggle with managing barrier.
I can not wait to see what the new Mortal Empires map looks like. It's gotta be nearly thrice the size of TW2. TW3 map is ~20% larger than the current ME map so the new one is going to be utterly massive. You think they're going with another Marcader projection or you think it's going to be polar like the main TW map?
I hope it's polar and can rotate. The normal campaign map might not rotate but the big one should since it should have everything but the southern wastes on it.
I'm probably biased, but the Tzeentch army is looking very interesting. The first level ability you get from spamming spells will help restore lost winds, so combine that with Glean Magic and it looks like you might be able to go pretty ham with magic. Looks like in multiplayer Kairos might just have Harmonic Convergence, Regrowth, Penumbral Pendulum, Blue Fire of Tzeentch, Glean Magic, and Tzeentch's Firestorm as his options, which is curious since people had been assuming the shard system for singleplayer was probably so they could also use it in multiplayer. Iridescent Horrors and Cultists are both looking like strong options, with Iridescent Horrors being flying ranged units that also cast spells while Cultists can summon horrors onto the battlefield (and more in campaign, apparently). Their shields are looking very strong for their cavalry of course, particularly Doom Knights are getting a lot of mileage out of them in the videos I've seen. Their ranged units seem to pack a hell of a punch, though they don't have outstanding range. Chaos Spawn have... not been improved much by the addition of barriers, though Ogres are probably an awful match up for them. Hard to judge how good Firestorm of Tzeentch is since I have only seen it deployed against Ogres so far, which is... not super ideal targets. Same with Pink Fire really. Blue fire is cleaning up well in this specific scenario though!
I can not wait to see what the new Mortal Empires map looks like. It's gotta be nearly thrice the size of TW2. TW3 map is ~20% larger than the current ME map so the new one is going to be utterly massive. You think they're going with another Marcader projection or you think it's going to be polar like the main TW map?
I hope it's polar and can rotate. The normal campaign map might not rotate but the big one should since it should have everything but the southern wastes on it.
The promotional map is polar, but only shows the TW3 map. Or possibly part of it. It is mimicing a paper type map, so how it works ingame is unknown for the moment
Posts
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/qmmhiu/warhammer_3_game_map_reveal/
I thought it might go further east but there's still time. Middenheim is on the map so the toddy memes will never die.
If his spells count as fire damage Kindleflame is so going to be worth it even if you don't use the fragment fire spells.
In leak related news, apparently one of those banner ads they released early has a video showing off more Ogre units.
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/qmmxg6/theres_also_a_new_adtrailer_for_ogre_kingdoms/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
They've expanded the Mortal Empires map in TW2 so much that I wouldn't rule Nippon out altogether. We have at least 3 years of DLC ahead of us.
Blog post in question:
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-iii-faq/
A lot of stuff there, including the release date: February 17, 2022
On the other hand, looks like a lot less of Cathay than hoped for, and no Khuresh, Ind, or Nippon. It's also hard to see if Nagashizzar made it in or not at the bottom.
Also, a link to the best zoomed in version I could find, where you can make out some region names:
Honestly: surprised by how little Chaos Wastes there are between the Great Bastion and the Realm of Chaos. Apparently just one province seperating Nan-Gau and Slaanesh's realm. Also: quite a lot of mountain filler.
//
From the Micosoft website, the Ogre Kingdoms roster includes:
• Skrag the Slaughterer (Legendary Lord)
• Greasus Goldtooth (Legendary Lord)
• Tyrant (Lord)
• Slaughtermaster (Lord)
• Hunter (Hero)
• Butcher (Hero)
• Firebelly (Hero)
• + 23 units
Which is interesting is the generic Bruiser heroes didn't make the cut. (Though honestly I'm super happy about that. If you had to cut one of their four heroes, the Bruiser is the one I'd be most willing to lose.) Checking the OK's 8th edition book, they only had 14 units (minus variants). So 23 seems like it's going to be a complete roster.
You can see their building tree, and by extension the roster:
Of note: no Thundertusks or Yhetees. So... there's definitely going to be an Ogre LP, I guess.
//
Ogres are not a horde, but set up Camps anywhere on the map sufficiently far away from a settlement. These are their major settlements. Any existing settlements that they capture are capped at tier three and four building slots. The number of Camps you can set up are limited by technology. It automatically raids whatever region it's in, and you recruit units into its garrison (and can switch them with an army's units - potentially a big change for garrisons it it's not just an Ogre mechanic).
//
Every ten turns, the Ogre will get a set of three Contracts from neutral factions. These are various tasks (take a settlement, kill a lord, etc.) and will get you gold and improved relations with the contracting faction.
//
Ogres have a secondary currency: Meat. All armies have Meat upkeep in addition to Gold, and Meat can also be used in the pre-battle menu to have a feast, giving the army buffs. (Similar I suppose to Skaven being able to use Food to increase their Dwellers Below uses.) You can also have an army make offerings of Meat to the Maw on the campaign map for campaign benefits.
//
Every Ogre lord (and hero?) has a choice of four Big Names that they can try to achieve. For example, if one wins a battle with 5 Gnoblar units in their army they might choose the Big Name 'Gnoblarkicker', which then gives all Gnoblars in their army Unbreakable.
Being able to choose your own garrison is very strong. One of the problems the prior two game have is that increasing building tiers can add some good new units but will push other good units off the list because of the way the garrison list is sorted. This can actually make higher tier garrisons weaker because the unit selection is less good at defense even with more units. It's really stupid.
Wondering if Ogre reliability will be a thing now with the merc mechanic (reliability only matters for the player, AI can do whatever). It might make sense to tone it down or eliminate it for Ogres so you can get your merc on.
I do still hope they do something across the board with garrisons though. As danx said, choice of units can get a bit weird with tiers for some races, and also when the garrison goes above 20 units and it has to pick which get involved. The latter isn't usually a problem, but some places with special buildings and walls can get over that threshold fairly easily (e.g. Vaul's Anvil on Ulthuan). There's also a general "no DLC in basic garrisons" problem. Fine for some races, not great for others - e.g. skaven being tied to base game units only.
Edit: Also forgot to add "useless casters in garrisons". What am I going to do with a mage with one spell?
Imagine a Skaven garrison with PWMs. :rotate:
Don't think so. Ogre camps is sort of a stationary hybrid between a horde and a black ark and doesn't really use any new mechanics in that way, just repurposed old mechanics. So I doubt there will be a huge overhaul in terms of garrisons. Especially since their siege rework points towards their solution being reworking siege maps&AI to make more types of units useful.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
What is the Witches Wood to the north west of Nordland? Another Wood Elf forest?
//
Also, the Ogre roster typed out from the screenshot of their settlement buildings:
Camp: T1: Gnoblars, T2: Gnoblar (Trappers?)
Basic Military Building: T1: Ogres, T2: Ogres (Dual Weapons), Ogres (Ironfists), T3: Ironguts
Hunter Building: T2: Sabretusk Pack, T3: Hunter (Hero), Gorger, T4: Stonehorn, Giant, T5: Stonehorn (Harpoon Launcher?)
Maneater Building: T3: Maneaters, T4: Maneaters (Variant?), T5: Maneaters (Great Weapons), Maneaters (Ogre Pistols)
Cavalry Building: T3: Mournfang Cavalry, T4: Mournfang Cavalry (Ironfists), Mournfang Cavalry (Great Weapons), T5: Rhinox Riders, Rhinox Riders (Great Weapons)
Range Building: T3: Leadbelchers, Scraplauncher, T4: Firebelly (Hero), T5: Ironblaster
Cooking Building: T3: Butchers (Hero)
Aside: it appears there are only two types of Butchers. In 8th edition they could take the Lores of: The Great Maw, Beasts, Heavens, and Death. In 6th edition they could only take Gut Magic.
I wonder if they've received a split in their lore (the way Kislev now has Lore of Ice and Lore of Tempests). If not, I imagine they'll be Great Maw & Beasts, dropping Heavens and Death.
They have definitely mentioned there are Vamps down there on the map
Aye but there's Vamps and there's Manfred. Screw that guy.
Vlad and Isabella forever :heartbeat:
Mannfred is a craven, petty, vainglorious bastard whose never seen a back he wouldn't stab. He's like like a furless Skaven, but somehow less trustworthy. He's also directly responsible for the world blowing up in the End Times because he simply could not get the fuck over himself for even a moment to not betray his allies out of petty vindictive spite.
And he's less fun than Konrad.
I'll just take the opportunity to roll my eyes at the AI's inability to consistently put together a worthwhile army.
It's turn 102, for crying out loud, my allies whose core provinces haven't been seriously threatened in like 75 turns shouldn't be fielding stacks like this:
Meanwhile, I've had this army for like 50 turns at this point:
Issues like this are why third party DRM is bloody awful.
CAs Facebook page has all the links
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
All I wanted were for minor settlements to have some buildings to create chokepoints. I know the AI can't handle them well but I really, really don't fucking care. I play TW to see cool cinematic shit.
A bit of a shame that ogres are the pre-order pack, I was hoping they would get the campaign pack treatment but the writing was on the wall and there weren't many better choices (especially after ogre mercs popped up 2). But it looks pretty good. Generally, factions in TW2 started off more interesting than the base factions in TW1 (which was a low bar, but we only say that in retrospect!), so I'm sure the TW3 base factions will start from an even healthier starting point.
I'm sure chaos dwarfs will make it in as a campaign pack eventually.
Warriors of Chaos = The abandoned child in the street of Total warhammer. Did receive some work-up to make them remotely playable. Still the worst faction.
Norsca = Evil stepmother levels of neglect. Have had some level of work done, but at least their campaign is more viable and fun to play than warriors chaos. Also, they have mammoths.
Ogre Kingdoms = Interesting mechanics and almost their entire roster. Short on legendary lords, but that might just be to open up for future DLC/FLCs featuring lords+units (like yheetees).
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
TWW2 came out in late Septemeber, and Tomb Kings were January (after being delayed a month while they fixed Norsca in Mortal Empires). So I think Chorfs in May/June is a reasonable expectation.
//
Ogre Kingdoms seem primed for a Lord Pack. Bruiser heroes, Thundertusks and Yhetees are fairly prominent, and a pack could be filled out with stuff from the Goblar Country list (from White Dwarf - Pigback Riders!), making Blood Vultures into a unit (instead of a Hunter upgrade), or Maneater variants out the wazoo if they want.
They might not necessarily release the same type of DLC in the same order, Monkey King is obviously on the table, as is possibly Jade Vamps and some Skaven.
Most of those units look amazing but some of the Ogre cav at the start look kinda washed out when selected in the close ups. The green glow is screwing with the silhouette. The Ogre settlement looks fantastic and the units look great in the battle though.
Legend showed off Tzeentch with a Tzeentchy style field map. Play style looks fun but I'm a bit worried the AI might struggle with managing barrier.
I hope it's polar and can rotate. The normal campaign map might not rotate but the big one should since it should have everything but the southern wastes on it.
The promotional map is polar, but only shows the TW3 map. Or possibly part of it. It is mimicing a paper type map, so how it works ingame is unknown for the moment