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[Metroid] Expecting Prime 4? TOO BAD PRIME 1 REMASTER TIME.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    It depends on the game.

    In Super Metroid, the grapple beam comes out of the arm cannon.
    In Metroid Prime, it comes out of a special beam projector strapped to her left arm, below the wrist. It's like that in Prime 2. And then in Prime 3, it just shoots out of the back of her left hand.

    I assume the difference between Super and Prime was so that you'd still be able to shoot while swinging.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Damn, now I really want to replay Prime.

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Finally beat it. 10:08:something. Not bad for my first ever Metroid game, I think. Thoughts:
    Parts of the game are brilliant. I love the EMMI rooms. I think the overall vibe and feel of the game is great. I liked getting some actual lore. Some of the Chozo designs were great. The overall pacing is good... early on it felt like I was getting something (new ability, missiles, e-tank, etc.) every 10-15 minutes or so.

    My problems are more or less the same as everyone else's. Clunky controls and bullet sponge bosses.

    I've said it before, but there's 0 reason for the controls to be laid out as they are. It would've been much better/simpler/more accessible if tapping R1 fired missiles and holding R2 was the grapple gun. This incessant need to funnel everything through the Y button just doesn't make gameplay sense to me. Yes, Samus has just the one gun arm. But we're not Samus. And even if we were, I'm pretty sure she'd just have dedicated buttons to firing other ordinance rather than trying to hold down 2-4 buttons at a time in that gun arm.

    Regarding the bosses, I found them mostly obnoxious. The over-reliance on executing melee counters to the detriment of everything else was not fun. This is highlighted in the final boss fight in which phase 2 lasts more than twice as long as the other phases combined simply because there's no melee counter available. Better balance, less "I just hit you with 50+ missiles/100+ normal gun shots and you're still alive" please.

    Overall, I give it a 7/10. Some great parts, but I have 0 interest in going back to it again.

    Tapping R to fire missiles sounds awful, but you're absolutely right about the grapple. There was no reason to have to hit ZR to prime it then Y to shoot, it should have just been ZR to fire.

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Finally beat it. 10:08:something. Not bad for my first ever Metroid game, I think. Thoughts:
    Parts of the game are brilliant. I love the EMMI rooms. I think the overall vibe and feel of the game is great. I liked getting some actual lore. Some of the Chozo designs were great. The overall pacing is good... early on it felt like I was getting something (new ability, missiles, e-tank, etc.) every 10-15 minutes or so.

    My problems are more or less the same as everyone else's. Clunky controls and bullet sponge bosses.

    I've said it before, but there's 0 reason for the controls to be laid out as they are. It would've been much better/simpler/more accessible if tapping R1 fired missiles and holding R2 was the grapple gun. This incessant need to funnel everything through the Y button just doesn't make gameplay sense to me. Yes, Samus has just the one gun arm. But we're not Samus. And even if we were, I'm pretty sure she'd just have dedicated buttons to firing other ordinance rather than trying to hold down 2-4 buttons at a time in that gun arm.

    Regarding the bosses, I found them mostly obnoxious. The over-reliance on executing melee counters to the detriment of everything else was not fun. This is highlighted in the final boss fight in which phase 2 lasts more than twice as long as the other phases combined simply because there's no melee counter available. Better balance, less "I just hit you with 50+ missiles/100+ normal gun shots and you're still alive" please.

    Overall, I give it a 7/10. Some great parts, but I have 0 interest in going back to it again.

    Tapping R to fire missiles sounds awful, but you're absolutely right about the grapple. There was no reason to have to hit ZR to prime it then Y to shoot, it should have just been ZR to fire.

    I regret I have but one agree to give.

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I can finally read this thread. Finished Dread, 11:04 clear time (it was definitely much more than that, but it's what the game said. Maybe it doesn't count the significant amount of time I spent staring at maps?), 100% items. I wasn't planning to go for completion, but I got completely lost multiple times in the game even though the actual place to progress always turned out to be something obvious. So I was at like 80-100% in all the big areas at the end, so I figured I might as well polish it off. This is the third Metroid game I've ever played (Super and Fusion), and I think the first one I actually finished. Although I've seen all of Super a thousand times thanks to speedruns and junk.

    Great game. There was a few encounters I didn't like in the early/mid game, and getting lost was always frustrating, but the highs were good enough for me to push through. I initially didn't like the difficulty of the EMMI sections and some of the bosses, but I realized pretty quick that it's balanced around being able to die, learn, and quickly retry. Although with that said, I don't think there's anything in the game that can't realistically be done on your first attempt when playing blind. You must just have to get a bit lucky in some of the EMMI sections to not corner yourself. And/or make much better use out of some specific abilities than I did.

    On the note of completion, I will admit having to look up how exactly the speed booster works. If they're gonna put text in the game at all to explain how stuff works, I don't see why they failed to do that with that one powerup. Bizarre. Once I knew how the thing worked though, all of the puzzles for it were super satisfying.

    AshtonDragon on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Finally beat it! Clear time 14:56:00, items 85%.
    Last boss, phase 2, takes 2x as long as it should, my poor hands.

    I really, really enjoyed the game overall. Bosses got a little too frequent and seriously phase 2 can kiss my ass, but aside from that it was pretty good. I decided I did not give two hoots and a nanny about the spark puzzles.

    Definitely some improvements to be made in the next game, like not having abilities become meaningless in the end game, but all in all I had a great time with it. The difficulty was pretty much exactly at my limit without making it a slog 99% of the time. I do hope they add just a bit more exploration in the next go, and not so many bosses in a row mebbe yeah? And a little less bullet spongy?

    The story though! Actually pretty good! The depiction of Samus never disappointed!

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    On the note of completion, I will admit having to look up how exactly the speed booster works. If they're gonna put text in the game at all to explain how stuff works, I don't see why they failed to do that with that one powerup. Bizarre. Once I knew how the thing worked though, all of the puzzles for it were super satisfying.
    Which bits don't they say?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    On the note of completion, I will admit having to look up how exactly the speed booster works. If they're gonna put text in the game at all to explain how stuff works, I don't see why they failed to do that with that one powerup. Bizarre. Once I knew how the thing worked though, all of the puzzles for it were super satisfying.
    Which bits don't they say?
    Bouncing off walls for one.

    Two would be about exiting a spin to fire a stored spark mid-air.

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    On the note of completion, I will admit having to look up how exactly the speed booster works. If they're gonna put text in the game at all to explain how stuff works, I don't see why they failed to do that with that one powerup. Bizarre. Once I knew how the thing worked though, all of the puzzles for it were super satisfying.
    Which bits don't they say?
    Bouncing off walls for one.

    Two would be about exiting a spin to fire a stored spark mid-air.
    They also don't tell you about being able to go back into running when you shine spark into a slope, or the fact that you can shine spark as a morph ball. The way to do it while in mid-air is the big one, though.

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    Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    On the note of completion, I will admit having to look up how exactly the speed booster works. If they're gonna put text in the game at all to explain how stuff works, I don't see why they failed to do that with that one powerup. Bizarre. Once I knew how the thing worked though, all of the puzzles for it were super satisfying.
    Which bits don't they say?
    Bouncing off walls for one.

    Two would be about exiting a spin to fire a stored spark mid-air.
    They also don't tell you about being able to go back into running when you shine spark into a slope, or the fact that you can shine spark as a morph ball. The way to do it while in mid-air is the big one, though.
    There actually are loading screen tooltips about slope cancelling and Ball Sparks, although the former doesn't come up very often.

    XBL: Stealth Crane PSN: ajpet12 3DS: 1160-9999-5810 NNID: StealthCrane Pokemon Scarlet Name: Carmen
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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I wish the game gave you more to do with
    ice missiles and power bombs.
    I don't think you jump on a frozen enemy to reach a higher platform even once. And power bombs seem mostly used to... get more power bombs.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    I wish the game gave you more to do with
    ice missiles and power bombs.
    I don't think you jump on a frozen enemy to reach a higher platform even once. And power bombs seem mostly used to... get more power bombs.
    Yeah. The power bombs are useful for.... well, basically countering one move of the final fight, and they can clean up certain fights you may have missed (there's an optional double chozo bot fight and they instant kill them).

    Steam: Polaritie
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    PSN: AbEntropy
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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    I wish the game gave you more to do with
    ice missiles and power bombs.
    I don't think you jump on a frozen enemy to reach a higher platform even once. And power bombs seem mostly used to... get more power bombs.
    you freeze a platform in ghavoran to get at a grapple beam spot, but that's just for a missile upgrade afaik

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    So frustrated with this game. I'm glad some of you are enjoying it. I am not.

    A) It's too hard. I wipe 20-60 times on every boss and it isn't fun. I didn't buy a Metroid game to play Dark Souls.
    B) The controls are shit and it's fucking dumb that there are no alternate control schemes, or a way to rebind the keys to your liking. It's 2021. Every game should allow custom keybinds.
    C) The powerup and item acquisition is so uneven. You'll go for a long period of time and get nothing, and then suddenly get like 3 powers in a row. The pacing is off.
    D) They actively discourage exploration with all the needless one-way doors. Stop trying to prevent me from exploring, game. That's what this series is about.

    Ugh. I'm currently on the purple flying insect boss and I've probably already died like 30 times at least. It never stops shooting. The damage is too high. The damage windows when you can actually hit it are too small and infrequent. I am not having fun anymore.

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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    There is system level custom keybinding on Switch so that is an option. I do agree it is dumb not to offer it at the software level though.

    For boss battles, I have 2 recommendations if you get stuck. First is just to step away from it for a while. For some reason taking a break and coming back at it again later can make boss battles suddenly seem a hundred times easier. Second is to go a couple rounds without even trying to shoot at it. Practice dodging all of its attacks instead. Once you've got all the dodges down, it will be a lot easier.

    Oh and make sure your TV is set to game mode if it has one. If you are playing with loads of input lag it's going to be damn near impossible to beat some of these bosses.

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Those are good suggestions and I have done them.

    I’ve been on the bug boss for a week because I had to step away and mentally reset. And my tv is on the right setting. There’s no input lag.

    But there is precognitive lag because that’s the only way to pull off counters. Those jetpack guys are the worst. You gotta press the counter button before they do the flash or it’s already too late. But then they didn’t even do the counterable move so now you just got shot.

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    Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Those are good suggestions and I have done them.

    I’ve been on the bug boss for a week because I had to step away and mentally reset. And my tv is on the right setting. There’s no input lag.

    But there is precognitive lag because that’s the only way to pull off counters. Those jetpack guys are the worst. You gotta press the counter button before they do the flash or it’s already too late. But then they didn’t even do the counterable move so now you just got shot.

    The somewhat good news is that the jetpack guys are going to be a lot easier. Not exactly fun to fight, but they become much faster to kill and then downright trivial with some of the later abilities.

    I never bothered trying to counter them. Or at least I stopped bothering once I realized it was too small a window to register what color energy they were prepping. Using the same model animation but just a different color aura at the end is on my list of worst ways to differentiate an attack in the game. Even Dark Souls doesn't pull that crap with parryable vs. unblockable attacks.

    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Those are good suggestions and I have done them.

    I’ve been on the bug boss for a week because I had to step away and mentally reset. And my tv is on the right setting. There’s no input lag.

    But there is precognitive lag because that’s the only way to pull off counters. Those jetpack guys are the worst. You gotta press the counter button before they do the flash or it’s already too late. But then they didn’t even do the counterable move so now you just got shot.

    For what it's worth, that one frustrated me too, and I think that's the one that I just said F This to and did an item sweep to bulk up against it and take care of it later. The game is certainly not flawless, and really, really needs a difficulty slider or two.

    Because it was at the high end of my skill ceiling, I actually ended up spreading out play quite a bit. I would spend some time with a hard bit, feel my heart rate sky rocket like I was jogging, and set it down for an hour, or even for the night, then come back at it later.

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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    The bug boss is the cheapest, worst garbage enemy in the game.

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    DysDys how am I even using this gun Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Bug boss becomes a bit easier if you speed boost into the room, save a shinespark, and rocket yourself into it.

    Very large chunk of its health gone right at the start of the fight if you do that.

    Dys on
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    AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    Bug boss is actually kinda unique in that he isn’t bullet spongy at all; he just gives you very few openings and they’re quick. If you can land a single missile during these openings, you’re victorious. In the meantime, worry about not taking damage. This change of mentality legit led me to a perfect victory on hard mode. He’s not cheap, just requires a shift in tactics.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    Or you just get screw attack before him and laugh, but that requires a little bit of shinespark tech. And a different boss.

    Polaritie on
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    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I honestly thought the bug boss was a lot easier than most other bosses in the game. The bosses I struggled with were
    Kraid
    Drogyga
    The cross bomb boss I forget its name
    Experiment Z-57
    Chozo Warrior
    Raven Beak

    And just about every one of those was a case of not knowing what to do, and nothing about the execution being particularly difficult once I figured out what to do. Really the only one I thought was some bullshit was
    Raven Beak because it's really unclear how to get past the first phase of that fight going in blind. It's also not clear that he's invulnerable and not actually taking any damage from your zillions of missiles.

    The chozo bots I did not find particularly challenging either. It is super easy to kite them around the arena. As soon as they jump up to the platform you are on quickly pop them with missiles and drop off the platform. When they follow you down, pop them with missiles and jump back up. If you don't have a different platform to move to, phase shift over their dash attacks and missile them in the back.

    I actually wish Dread had a boss rush mode. I think that would be super fun.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    bug boss was easily the hardest boss for me, was raging on it.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    The bosses so far have been pretty easy once I know what to do. It’s those first couple lives where I’m like… okay, so it’s totally invulnerable or something? Oh, I can shoot it in this spot, and then I hit this a thing, and then I hit it with a missile.

    Once I know what I’m supposed to shoot, individual phases end in seconds. My fight against the underwater plant thing was EMBARRASSING.

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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Yeah I died to that thing more times than I'd like to admit.

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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited October 2021
    I kept trying to use the little side to side grapple point for… I don’t even know. I didn’t see the gigantic fuckoff glowing button right next to me my first fight.

    Him and EZ57 are my favorite bosses though. They’re like Contra bosses in a Metroid.

    jungleroomx on
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    TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    Yeah I died to that thing more times than I'd like to admit.

    I went back and watched the stream and I only died a few times but it’s still twenty minutes of “Ooooh I’m supposed to shoot THAT, then That, then That!”

    I also never hit the melee counter and those have been so damn satisfying on the other bosses and even a lot of the normal enemies. Kinda bummed if I don’t see them.

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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Yeah I died to that thing more times than I'd like to admit.

    I went back and watched the stream and I only died a few times but it’s still twenty minutes of “Ooooh I’m supposed to shoot THAT, then That, then That!”

    I also never hit the melee counter and those have been so damn satisfying on the other bosses and even a lot of the normal enemies. Kinda bummed if I don’t see them.

    His flash is super quick. I hit it a few times mostly due to being able to anticipate it.

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    BronzeKoopaBronzeKoopa Registered User regular
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Yeah I died to that thing more times than I'd like to admit.

    I went back and watched the stream and I only died a few times but it’s still twenty minutes of “Ooooh I’m supposed to shoot THAT, then That, then That!”

    I also never hit the melee counter and those have been so damn satisfying on the other bosses and even a lot of the normal enemies. Kinda bummed if I don’t see them.

    His flash is super quick. I hit it a few times mostly due to being able to anticipate it.

    I find that if you stay against the walls of the boss room, next to the switches you shoot, you have more space and time to counter that tentacle attack.

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    SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    Speaking of hard Metroidvania's, I bought Monster Boy while it was on sale and boy.....this is a really hard one. But like not in the fun way. More in the bullshit 80s/90s platformer way. Lots of enemies off-screen hitting you for half your health bar, pits that take off a quarter of your health, absolutely precision platforming while also getting pelted by projectiles and other enemies...a whole lot of bullshit, honestly.

    I was hoping this cute cartoony game that looks great would be good for the kids, but I can barely get through it, my kids definitely aren't gonna be able to.

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    rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Speaking of hard Metroidvania's, I bought Monster Boy while it was on sale and boy.....this is a really hard one. But like not in the fun way. More in the bullshit 80s/90s platformer way. Lots of enemies off-screen hitting you for half your health bar, pits that take off a quarter of your health, absolutely precision platforming while also getting pelted by projectiles and other enemies...a whole lot of bullshit, honestly.

    This is extremely modern design. Old school would be you lose a life / game over.

    As often in this genre, the beginning is kind of rough, but it smooths out a bit with upgrades. But you do always have to keep on your toes. It's not like Dread where normal enemies quickly become a joke and the only roadblock is bosses.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Speaking of hard Metroidvania's, I bought Monster Boy while it was on sale and boy.....this is a really hard one. But like not in the fun way. More in the bullshit 80s/90s platformer way. Lots of enemies off-screen hitting you for half your health bar, pits that take off a quarter of your health, absolutely precision platforming while also getting pelted by projectiles and other enemies...a whole lot of bullshit, honestly.

    This is extremely modern design. Old school would be you lose a life / game over.

    As often in this genre, the beginning is kind of rough, but it smooths out a bit with upgrades. But you do always have to keep on your toes. It's not like Dread where normal enemies quickly become a joke and the only roadblock is bosses.

    This sound haunts me to this day:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgT-IOPxk-k&t=1s

    That fucking skull castle in Megaman 2. So many holes. So much instant death. Oh, and here's a whole fucking BOSS FIGHT OVER A DEATH PIT AND YOU ONLY GET THREE BLOCKS TO STAND ON. Separated blocks.

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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    …which one was the bug boss? Is it the
    Cross-bomb boss?

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    VyolynceVyolynce Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    …which one was the bug boss? Is it the
    Cross-bomb boss?

    I think it's Escue?

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Vyolynce wrote: »
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    …which one was the bug boss? Is it the
    Cross-bomb boss?

    I think it's Escue?
    If the issue is dodging it's probably that one, yeah. Storm Missile boss. Technically it's optional too.

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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Ah, yeah, I remember him now. Hardest part is the heat-seeking bolts IMO. Rest of it isn't bad.

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Out of curiosity, how do you guys know the names for any of these things? The game doesn't tell you anything.

    Also, bonus topic: I managed to beat the flying purple bug over the weekend, and then the combo pair of two jetpack guys, and then the red spear guy. I persevered and stuck with it. Now I'm fighting Puke Face Slashy Arms Monster. I've made it a good ways into the fight, but haven't had a good enough execution of mechanics yet to get it down.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, how do you guys know the names for any of these things? The game doesn't tell you anything.

    Also, bonus topic: I managed to beat the flying purple bug over the weekend, and then the combo pair of two jetpack guys, and then the red spear guy. I persevered and stuck with it. Now I'm fighting Puke Face Slashy Arms Monster. I've made it a good ways into the fight, but haven't had a good enough execution of mechanics yet to get it down.

    I believe the boss names came from the special edition art book?

    Pukey Face is named Experiment Z-57. It's a hard fight but all its moves are pretty well telegraphed at least. You can do it!

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